8 minutes ago, Kandinski said:

How long do you predict it'll take to eliminate furtther blockage of the Hormuz? 1year? 5year? How many civilian casualties are you willing to accept in order for Donny to declare "victory?

No one besides them knows what's going on in talks and negotiations, so there's no telling. I don't accept any civilian losses, and don't want anyone killed anyway, but when you have a terrorist regime fighting you, they need to be stopped, at least until they do negotiate.

Everyone's losing money with this block, including Iran, so it's their egos that need to be set aside and caring for their civilians needs to be more than they've shown earlier. The US has killed some of Iran's civilians but it doesn't compare to how many Iran has the last decades.

4 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

but when you have a terrorist regime fighting you, they need to be stopped, at least until they do negotiate.

Assume you by terrorist regime mean Iran but they are not fighting US, they are defending their country against the attack from USA.

7 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Everyone's losing money with this block, including Iran, so it's their egos that need to be set aside

Not Donny and his compadresband he are the one with [extreme] inflated ego who will never admit his defeat

6 minutes ago, Kandinski said:

Assume you by terrorist regime mean Iran but they are not fighting US, they are defending their country against the attack from USA.

Not Donny and his compadresband he are the one with [extreme] inflated ego who will never admit his defeat

Yes, Iran's terrorist regime. They really can't fight back much now, but I do understand defending themselves, even if they needed to be stopped. This isn't all about Trump like many seem to make it. Congress is obviously going along with it, and Iran needed a lesson anyway.

1 hour ago, Yagoda said:

Tell us what the "mantra" is?

After all these years, you have no idea what M A G A means? Incredible, but you do you.

1 hour ago, Yagoda said:

Tell us what errors he has made in this conflict. Surely you, as the heir of Clausewitz with accesss to the most secret intelligence, should be able to tell us.

You don't have to have Clausewitz's genes to see that he is endorsing and executing a war that their 'superior' forces hasn't a hope in hell of winning.

“No one starts a war--or rather, no one in his sense ought to do so--without first being clear in his mind what he intends to achieve by the war and how he intends to conduct it.”

Clausewitz - from Von Kriege

What's that about the former Fox News hack's intelligence?

58 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

They have little left besides what they've shown, and sleeper cells will continue to be droned to death.

Yes, that's what Trump says at every single press briefing, even the ones that aren't about the war. It's that old chestnut from Trump 1 which fundamentally meant that if you repeat the lie often enough, it eventually becomes the truth.

This doesn't seem to be working too well with Trump 2, especially right now.

As for sleeper cells being 'droned to death', since the sleeper cells can be in foreign countries, that's going to create high collateral damage, even inside America. Then again, ICE have just been given more money to harass and detain the unarmed, low-threat illegal and the occasional American citizen, but I guess all's well in the "shining city on a hill."

2 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Yes, that's what Trump says at every single press briefing, even the ones that aren't about the war. It's that old chestnut from Trump 1 which fundamentally meant that if you repeat the lie often enough, it eventually becomes the truth.

This doesn't seem to be working too well with Trump 2, especially right now.

As for sleeper cells being 'droned to death', since the sleeper cells can be in foreign countries, that's going to create high collateral damage, even inside America. Then again, ICE have just been given more money to harass and detain the unarmed, low-threat illegal and the occasional American citizen, but I guess all's well in the "shining city on a hill."

Collateral damage happens, but think of the damage that will be done allowing them to carry out the bombings. We've all seen what they're capable of, so if you eliminate as many as possible, before education turns their terror thinking around, you save lives.

Mistakes are always made when agencies have morons working for them. Many in powerful positions have proven to be disturbed thinkers. Hard to keep all of them out of office as they can fool most everyone, at least for awhile. Some policemen in all countries have no business being policemen. There's narcissists in all positions of power, and some are elected there.

Trump's a strange person, but again, it's not all about him.

Edited June 7Jun 7 by fredwiggy

38 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Yes, Iran's terrorist regime. They really can't fight back much now, but I do understand defending themselves, even if they needed to be stopped. This isn't all about Trump like many seem to make it. Congress is obviously going along with it, and Iran needed a lesson anyway.

The other day Congress narrowly passed a resolution rebuking Trump on the war. But it was reported as largely symbolic, and unlikely to end the conflict.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/house-votes-rebuke-trump-war-iran-rcna348281

A Thai man asked me about the war.

I told him it's two rival religious groups fighting a turf war over power & money.

Two religiously driven power blocs

using propaganda based ideology to mobilize people to fight* through proxies across multiple territories to control strategic regions that generate money, leverage, and influence

*We fight like hell. And if you don’t fight like hell, you’re not going to have a country anymore --Dear Leader before scurrying off to his secure bunker to watch the riffraff fight cops on TV

Edited June 7Jun 7 by SiSePuede419

12 hours ago, Autocan said:

Israel is not a democracy. Arabs in occupied territories don't get to vote. Israel is an apartheid state, like S. Africa used to be except the regime is a thousand times worse. No one accused the Boers of genocide against Blacks.

You are not making any sense. There are 1 million Arab voters in Israel. what do you mean by occupied territories? What do you think the Palestinian Authority is? The Arabs in the PA territory vote for their Palestinian administration. They have no desire to vote in an Israeli election because that would mean that they recognize the state of israel. Why would you expect the PA territory arabs to vote in an Israeli election? Your logic would mean that Israelis could vote in the Palestinian Authority election too.

You do not know what apartheid means. Arab citizens have the same legal rights as any other citizen. Why would you expect that non citizens of Israel, i.e. Arab citizens of the Palestinian territory who do not identify as Israeli, would have the same right to vote in israel or an education in Israel as citizens, the people who pay taxes in Israel?

3 hours ago, ronnie50 said:

Fat chance of that happening. They don't have the capabilty to do it alone - short of using their nukes. Why do you think they needed the US in the first place? The US ends up fighting all of Israel's wars - either overtly (like now) or covertly (like sanctions, limited targeted attacks). Remember the Defense Department's plan to take out 7 countries in 5 years? All 7 countries were deemed enemies of or threats to Israel not the US. The last country on the list was Iran - as it would be the hardest to defeat. And so here we are.

Pathetic attempt to blame Israel. Iran was waging war on the USA and Arabs long before this conflict. The 1979 hostage taking that started off iran's holy war against the west had nothing to do with Israel.

3 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

I don't accept any civilian losses, and don't want anyone killed anyway, but when you have a terrorist regime fighting you, they need to be stopped, at least until they do negotiate.

The US and West labels any country targeted for regime change as terrorists. The irony being is that the US and Israel, and the EU for that matter, all resort to terrorizing the civilian populations of the countries they seek to destroy.

1 minute ago, connda said:

The US and West labels any country targeted for regime change as terrorists. The irony being is that the US and Israel, and the EU for that matter, all resort to terrorizing the civilian populations of the countries they seek to destroy.

Iran has been a terrorist country for decades. No labeling needed as they've proven it themselves. Trying to get a country to rid itself of terrorism might look like terrorizing, but endgame is peace for everyone, including them. Israel has it's own agenda.

9 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

what do you mean by occupied territories?

I mean those slivers of land where the millions of inhabitants have their water, electricity, food and medicine supplies controlled by the occupiers. Where the occupiers periodically "mow the grass" shooting and raping and seizing innocents to incarcerate. Where they drop bombs on women and children penned into refugee camps.

19 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

Arab citizens have the same legal rights as any other citizen.

Sir, this is a serious forum with an educated readership, not a place for doltish frivolity.

Edited June 7Jun 7 by Autocan

17 hours ago, Yagoda said:

And why do you think Iran cant be defeated or destroyed?

According to you and your other MAGA friend you had won weeks ago, remember when you told us all America desroyed Irans missile and drone sites and sent there navy to the bottom of the gulf there finished you said.

4 hours ago, Yagoda said:

Tell us what the "mantra" is?

Tell us what errors he has made in this conflict. Surely you, as the heir of Clausewitz with accesss to the most secret intelligence, should be able to tell us.

Err I'd say dropping a Tomahawk by mistake and killing over 150 kids in a School would be an error wouldnt you Yagoda ?

There is a problem.

It may well be that the average Iranian is getting tired of the Mullahs. There are 80 million Iranians. Once a US GI sets foot on Iranian soil, the US will have to fight 80 million partisans. Regardless who is in Power in Teheran. The Iranians (the Persians) have outlasted every civilisation before and after. The national consensus is unchanged: Regardless who is in power: We remain Persians. Even the Mongolian Khan's had to accept it.

Not to worry: 2 months before the mid-term elections, Donald will declare "victory". One way or the other.

15 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

If Iran continues what they've been doing all along, they will not only lose all of it's military but many civilians also. They have little left besides what they've shown, and sleeper cells will continue to be droned to death. They do any more they are shooting themselves in the foot, as they need the money this war is costing also, along with the trade everyone is losing. They make themselves more enemies, they'll lose any chances they have of their economy regaining back to where it was before.

Quite the contrary Iran has made many friends with this war by showing a great deal of restraint instead of letting loose terror cells, proxy militias and other means at their disposal to inflict terror.

The US is the one that has lost allies and lost support over this ridiculous and endless war of choice, achieving absolutely nothing in the process.

Edited June 7Jun 7 by spidermike007

4 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Quite the contrary Iran has made many friends with this war by showing a great deal of restraint instead of letting loose terror cells, proxy militias and other means at their disposal to inflict terror.

The US is the one that has lost allies and lost support over this ridiculous and endless war of choice, achieving absolutely nothing in the process.

Targeting neighbors isn't making friends. The US might have some against them for now, but the endgame isn't there yet.

7 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Quite the contrary Iran has made many friends with this war by showing a great deal of restraint instead of letting loose terror cells, proxy militias and other means at their disposal to inflict terror.

You’re delusional. Iran’s only friends are nations you likely dislike. If Iran had the ability to strike the USA, they would have done so.

25 minutes ago, Mr Awesome said:

You’re delusional. Iran’s only friends are nations you likely dislike. If Iran had the ability to strike the USA, they would have done so.

You could not possibly be more wrong about that, Iran has shown an incredible level of restraint thus far.

Posts with derogatory nicknames, intentional misspellings, or personal remarks will be removed. Spell names correctly for all sides of the debate.

23 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

what do you mean by occupied territories?

Very funny. Not.

AI summary:

The Palestinian occupied territories—comprising the West Bank (including East Jerusalem) and the Gaza Strip—have been under Israeli military occupation since 1967. Home to over five million Palestinians, the territories have been the subject of intensifying conflict, settlement expansion, and sweeping legal actions

Formal internationally recognised (illegally) as "Occupied Palestinian Territory"

https://www.unocha.org/occupied-palestinian-territory

9 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

You could not possibly be more wrong about that, Iran has shown an incredible level of restraint thus far.

The US has neutralized most of Iran's capabilities. They are currently ineffective; if they could strike the US or Israel hard, they would.

10 hours ago, ronnie50 said:

Very funny. Not.

AI summary:

The Palestinian occupied territories—comprising the West Bank (including East Jerusalem) and the Gaza Strip—have been under Israeli military occupation since 1967. Home to over five million Palestinians, the territories have been the subject of intensifying conflict, settlement expansion, and sweeping legal actions

Formal internationally recognised (illegally) as "Occupied Palestinian Territory"

https://www.unocha.org/occupied-palestinian-territory

Gaza was not under occupation by Israel since 1967. It had been Egyptian controlled, and lost when the Arabs sought to eliminate Israel. In 2005, Israel withdrew completely from Gaza. In 2023, Gaza attacked Israel and as a consequence, in 2024 entered parts of Gaza in 2024. There are no Israeli settlements in Gaza.

There are disputed parts of the Palestinian Authority territory in the former area of land that Jordan had annexed, commonly known as the "West Bank" (of Jordan) and historically as Judea and Samaria. You do know that that Jordan invaded and occupied this region in 1948, taking it from Israel, and annexing it in 1950, don't you?. In 1967, Israel recaptured and liberated the territory. For some it is politically convenient if "occupation" started in 1967, and not in 1948 when Jordan invaded. It's another case of Arabs not willing to accept an agreement, and trying to take more, losing and then crying about the consequences of their own savage greed.

There are no elections in Gaza or the West Bank and they have been run as dictatorships by Hamas in Gaza, and Fatah in the Palestinian Authority territory since 2006.

On 6/7/2026 at 1:47 AM, BarraMarra said:

Err I'd say dropping a Tomahawk by mistake and killing over 150 kids in a School would be an error wouldnt you Yagoda ?

got it. tell us how he caused the error.

5 hours ago, Yagoda said:

got it. tell us how he caused the error.

Pathetic classic backheel, you just won't admit you did it. Go on tell us it was a leftie or Biden who pushed the Trigger, thats your usual excuse.

22 minutes ago, BarraMarra said:

Pathetic classic backheel, you just won't admit you did it. Go on tell us it was a leftie or Biden who pushed the Trigger, thats your usual excuse.

got it. you, as usual, have no facts to support your hate ridden spew against Hegseth

On 6/6/2026 at 8:38 PM, Yagoda said:

Well gee, if we kill enough, they will give up.

More importantly you cant answer the question. Of course. Thats the way your type roll.

Count me out if your ‘we’ nonsense.

But please do get your boots on and do put yourself in the line of fire brave boy.

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Count me out if your ‘we’ nonsense.

But please do get your boots on and do put yourself in the line of fire brave boy.

we have young folks to do that, proudly, called the US military. you are not part of our 'we', o envious, bitter terrorist lover

On 6/6/2026 at 11:16 PM, Autocan said:

Israel is not a democracy. Arabs in occupied territories don't get to vote. Israel is an apartheid state, like S. Africa used to be except the regime is a thousand times worse. No one accused the Boers of genocide against Blacks.

I seem to remember as a teenager in the 1970s all sorts of breathless accusations of that nature being leveled against "The Boers".

If Israel is an "apartheid state" that is largely because the "elected" administrations in the occupied territories (albeit only elected once and never prepared to submit themselves for re-election - isn't Abbass in the 17th year of his 4 year term, Hamas once in power had no intentions ion of relinquishing their grip) dedicate themselves to the destruction of Israel.

Don't forget why these territories are occupied, because throughout the first twenty years of Israel's existence they were constantly used to launch terror attacks on Israel, and, three times, full blown invasions.

Israel is currently in a political mess, because the man who dominates it's politics has created a coalition frankly propped up by looneys who take their mandate from the Old Testament! It is a mess, what they have done and are doing in Gaza and Southern Lebanon is wrong, largely unjustifiable, driven by their domestic political mess; but it is not unprovoked persecution of innocents and it is not genocide. Genocide is when entire populations are deliberately and methodically killed, as happened to the European Jews in the 1940s, the Armenians and most recently ( and strangely little remarked upon) the Azeris.

That doesn't mean that what Israel is doing should not be opposed, of course it should, but that opposition should not mean calling for the elimination, destruction of and of course the slaughter of the population of Israel, Jewish, Arab and Druze.