Why Is It So..

[dr_Pat_Pong]

The fact that thsi Aviador/globe/whatever appears to have been banned before is very telling

Mods - what's TVs position on banned members re-registering ?? That's why I went out of my way to expose this character in his new guise.

Thanks for the heads up LIK. Banned here means banned.

[endure]

For the record:

I'm not making any innuendos here or allegations, but rather responding directly to that which is a bit off, as I've already noted.

I am not a frivolous person, and my instincts are excellent. They have literally saved my life on a couple of occasions. But again, I don't really care what people on this tread think about me.

In many respects men and women have very different instincts, but especially about potentially creepy people and off-kilter situations. Quite frankly, most women have more experience with this at a very young age, end of story.

At the moment, there is no one here that can prove anything one way or the other. I am not trying to prove anything, but merely to engage in this forum as it found me.

In that regard, I must say: it is odd to be on a website about children, where others comment about them not suiting their "taste." Do you come across comments like this about children regularly as an adult? I've only heard people talk about their taste in that manner about inanimate things or potential romantic partners.

But again, we must be mindful of when to ask these questions as to not start a witch hunt, but also where and with whom, so as not to become the hunted yourself.

This is not the place or the audience.

*typo

You claim you are not making any innuendos or allegations "I'm not making any innuendos here or allegations,"

You then go on to make innuendos and allegations:

"In that regard, I must say: it is odd to be on a website about children, where others comment about them not suiting their "taste." Do you come across comments like this about children regularly as an adult? I've only heard people talk about their taste in that manner about inanimate things or potential romantic partners."

The fact that you've become involved in research on the Burmese slave trade doesn't allow you to make unsubstantiated accusations about other posters to Thaivisa.

[geriatrickid]

The thread was about racism and the Burmese and it ended up as an ersatz lynching. Oddly, none of the accusers is a qualified geriatric mental health diagnostician, yet they provided a mental health diagnosis.

Even a simple guy like me who's mental health training has consisted mostly of organic diseases, realized that what was presenting itself was a lonely old man trying to recapture a family and a semblance of paternalistic responsibility that was lost some time ago. Nothing more. No doubt, this fellow is his own worst enemy when it comes to PR, but that's a different story.

Maybe the fears might very well be true, but there was no evidence of demonstrated behaviors that would support the accusations. With the exception of questionable impulse control, I saw nothing to indicate; low self-esteem, inadequate social skills, or hostile and aggressive behavior. Where was the lack of empathy and manipulative action, which is pivotal to an appropriate diagnosis?

Some people do become overwhelmed by the suffering of others. It happens within the public health community of Northern Thailand. When colleagues display the crazies it is politely called job fatigue. Some people that have a daily diet of malnourished children working in indebted servitude or young adults dying painful deaths from immune system disorders break the cardinal rule of getting too close to the subjects.

Perhaps, if those judging got off their duffs and did something, then there would be no need or reason for the fellow to take on the burden of a child with a rotted mouth. At least I have the decency to admit that I am selfish and don't have the patience for screwed up kids. I don't try to assuage my guilt by questioning the motives of others.

*edited for typo*

Edited September 7, 2007 by Jai Dee
Font type adjusted for better readability.

[canadiangirl]

This is my last comment on this thread.

I call 'em how I see 'em, and that's it. Do you have to believe me? No. I could elaborate on why I think what I think, but I will acquiesce to the mods' wishes that we discuss this no further.

However, to those who feel that it is wrong to judge others based on their posts, I suggest that you begin with yourself, and refrain from addressing "personal" remarks to me. If my intuition is no proof of the poster's character, surely your intuition is no better judge of mine.

[khall64au]

Nattaya Anudit, who heads the Phuket Labor Department office, which oversees the registration of migrant workers from Burma, said that it would be hard to stage the concert by night as Burmese are not allowed to go out after 8 pm unless accompanied by their employer.

The regulation is just one of many imposed on Burmese workers in Phuket and other provinces with large numbers of migrant workers. Other rules forbid Burmese workers riding motorcycles and using mobile phones.

From Phuket gazette..

Ok... so... its not only us the white people.. But I think this is strange... Give me your thoughts...

7

Why is it so? This topic has gone way overboard - like a Thai soap opera! Any comments on the original post?

[kat]

For the record:

I'm not making any innuendos here or allegations, but rather responding directly to that which is a bit off, as I've already noted.

I am not a frivolous person, and my instincts are excellent. They have literally saved my life on a couple of occasions. But again, I don't really care what people on this tread think about me.

In many respects men and women have very different instincts, but especially about potentially creepy people and off-kilter situations. Quite frankly, most women have more experience with this at a very young age, end of story.

At the moment, there is no one here that can prove anything one way or the other. I am not trying to prove anything, but merely to engage in this forum as it found me.

In that regard, I must say: it is odd to be on a website about children, where others comment about them not suiting their "taste." Do you come across comments like this about children regularly as an adult? I've only heard people talk about their taste in that manner about inanimate things or potential romantic partners.

But again, we must be mindful of when to ask these questions as to not start a witch hunt, but also where and with whom, so as not to become the hunted yourself.

This is not the place or the audience.

*typo

You claim you are not making any innuendos or allegations "I'm not making any innuendos here or allegations,"

You then go on to make innuendos and allegations:

"In that regard, I must say: it is odd to be on a website about children, where others comment about them not suiting their "taste." Do you come across comments like this about children regularly as an adult? I've only heard people talk about their taste in that manner about inanimate things or potential romantic partners."

The fact that you've become involved in research on the Burmese slave trade doesn't allow you to make unsubstantiated accusations about other posters to Thaivisa.

This is a website where we do make claims and judgments all the time based on what people say. That is happening all over the board right now as we speak. As I said earlier, based on what I have here and based on my experience of working on this issue, I am commenting on what the poster himself has offered up for our scrutiny and comment. The point that I made here is that there are issues that stand out as strange and inconsistent. And in that regard, I have called it as I see it based on what I have here, and I stand by it. I will not comment on this again, because I've done so already.

The thread was about racism and the Burmese and it ended up as an ersatz lynching. Oddly, none of the accusers is a qualified geriatric mental health diagnostician, yet they provided a mental health diagnosis.

Even a simple guy like me who's mental health training has consisted mostly of organic diseases, realized that what was presenting itself was a lonely old man trying to recapture a family and a semblance of paternalistic responsibility that was lost some time ago. Nothing more. No doubt, this fellow is his own worst enemy when it comes to PR, but that's a different story.

Maybe the fears might very well be true, but there was no evidence of demonstrated behaviors that would support the accusations. With the exception of questionable impulse control, I saw nothing to indicate; low self-esteem, inadequate social skills, or hostile and aggressive behavior. Where was the lack of empathy and manipulative action, which is pivotal to an appropriate diagnosis?

Some people do become overwhelmed by the suffering of others. It happens within the public health community of Northern Thailand. When colleagues display the crazies it is politely called job fatigue. Some people that have a daily diet of malnourished children working in indebted servitude or young adults dying painful deaths from immune system disorders break the cardinal rule of getting too close to the subjects.

Perhaps, if those judging got off their duffs and did something, then there would be no need or reason for the fellow to take on the burden of a child with a rotted mouth. At least I have the decency to admit that I am selfish and don't have the patience for screwed up kids. I don't try to assuage my guilt by questioning the motives of others.

*edited for typo*

I'm very happy for you and your mental health training, but that does not automatically qualify you over anyone else to understand and recognize potential social, economic or exploitative conditions. As a matter of fact, most of the people involved in these transactions have rationalizations and justifications for what they are doing, and appear perfectly healthy, successful and well-adjusted to outsiders, and would never be suspected on a purely mental health profile. You should stick to treating Vitamin A deficiencies and other related issues of PUBLIC HEALTH.

Also, the public health community is not the only one dealing with suffering and job fatigue. That may be your reference point, but there are many other professionals deeply involved with this issue who have areas of expertise that are just as important as how you view your own.

And another thing, I am glad you can admit that you are selfish, but do not assume that others are doing nothing or have been doing nothing, just because they don't post the stories or sufferings of others up as if at a cattle show.

That's all I've got say here.

[kat]

Nattaya Anudit, who heads the Phuket Labor Department office, which oversees the registration of migrant workers from Burma, said that it would be hard to stage the concert by night as Burmese are not allowed to go out after 8 pm unless accompanied by their employer.

The regulation is just one of many imposed on Burmese workers in Phuket and other provinces with large numbers of migrant workers. Other rules forbid Burmese workers riding motorcycles and using mobile phones.

From Phuket gazette..

Ok... so... its not only us the white people.. But I think this is strange... Give me your thoughts...

7

Why is it so? This topic has gone way overboard - like a Thai soap opera! Any comments on the original post?

The original post was commented upon and addressed.

*spelling and clarity

Edited September 9, 2007 by kat

[kat]

I want to add that I think the moderation on this thread has been excellent. There have been various perspectives on here representing different angles, all important in their own right. It is much more effective to let people represent their own perspectives and argue them out, rather than to wipe everything out.

Very well done Endure and Dr. PP.

[geriatrickid]

Kat, you have a right to your opinion. My concern is the manner it which it has been made. Perhaps I did not express myself in a comprehensible manner. Therefore I will state once again, in this specific case, you did not observe the conditions of the child, nor did you interview the child. You did not interview the subject.

You are going on statements made by a lonely, marginalized elderly male. The statements he made may have been true or they may have been delusional.

Overt demonstrations of empathy and concern by the elderly is common. It is so common, that this demographic is specifically targeted by con artists. To those with no experience with geriatric behaviour and deviant behaviour, various activities can be confused. Unless you are a qualified mental health professional, you are not competent to make the diagnosis that you rendered. You can be leery, and you can hate the fellow if you want, but you should not ascribe a deviant behaviour label to him without a proper assessment.

Your condescending statement on public health demonstrates an absolute ignorance of the subject. The practice of Public health includes the physical, mental and social well being of the population. Disease is a manifestation of one or more disruptions of physical, mental or social stasis.

This soap opera has reached its conclusion, I won't be tuning in again.

[canadiangirl]

Unless you are a qualified mental health professional, you are not competent to make the diagnosis that you rendered. You can be leery, and you can hate the fellow if you want, but you should not ascribe a deviant behaviour label to him without a proper assessment.

Last time I heard, one didn't need to be a medical professional to post on TV. Has this changed?

[kat]

The thread was about racism and the Burmese and it ended up as an ersatz lynching. Oddly, none of the accusers is a qualified geriatric mental health diagnostician, yet they provided a mental health diagnosis.

Even a simple guy like me who's mental health training has consisted mostly of organic diseases, realized that what was presenting itself was a lonely old man trying to recapture a family and a semblance of paternalistic responsibility that was lost some time ago. Nothing more. No doubt, this fellow is his own worst enemy when it comes to PR, but that's a different story.

Maybe the fears might very well be true, but there was no evidence of demonstrated behaviors that would support the accusations. With the exception of questionable impulse control, I saw nothing to indicate; low self-esteem, inadequate social skills, or hostile and aggressive behavior. Where was the lack of empathy and manipulative action, which is pivotal to an appropriate diagnosis?

Some people do become overwhelmed by the suffering of others. It happens within the public health community of Northern Thailand. When colleagues display the crazies it is politely called job fatigue. Some people that have a daily diet of malnourished children working in indebted servitude or young adults dying painful deaths from immune system disorders break the cardinal rule of getting too close to the subjects.

Perhaps, if those judging got off their duffs and did something, then there would be no need or reason for the fellow to take on the burden of a child with a rotted mouth. At least I have the decency to admit that I am selfish and don't have the patience for screwed up kids. I don't try to assuage my guilt by questioning the motives of others.

*edited for typo*

Kat, you have a right to your opinion. My concern is the manner it which it has been made. Perhaps I did not express myself in a comprehensible manner. Therefore I will state once again, in this specific case, you did not observe the conditions of the child, nor did you interview the child. You did not interview the subject.

You are going on statements made by a lonely, marginalized elderly male. The statements he made may have been true or they may have been delusional.

Overt demonstrations of empathy and concern by the elderly is common. It is so common, that this demographic is specifically targeted by con artists. To those with no experience with geriatric behaviour and deviant behaviour, various activities can be confused. Unless you are a qualified mental health professional, you are not competent to make the diagnosis that you rendered. You can be leery, and you can hate the fellow if you want, but you should not ascribe a deviant behaviour label to him without a proper assessment.

Your condescending statement on public health demonstrates an absolute ignorance of the subject. The practice of Public health includes the physical, mental and social well being of the population. Disease is a manifestation of one or more disruptions of physical, mental or social stasis.

This soap opera has reached its conclusion, I won't be tuning in again.

You do not need to be a geriatric mental health professional to assess a post as "creepy" and off kilter, which is what I did. You have harped on this point because that is your particular lens, but it is not the only one, or even the most efficient in child exploitation interventions. You are applying your little specialty interest of geriatric mental health to this incidence while ignoring a whole other area of indicators that are obviously not your specialty. I am as ignorant of public health as you obviously are of other indicators important to other professionals in the field of child exploitation.

As a matter of fact, you do not even need to make a mental health diagnosis before recognizing potentially exploitative relationships. If that were the case, no one would ever be apprehended. I'm glad you have decided that I have a right to my opinion, because that is certainly ALL you have here, although you behave as if you have actually examined, interviewed and diagnosed by presenting an assessment.

It's not - it's your opinion, just like everyone else's here, and a pompously aggrandizing one at that.

Edited September 10, 2007 by kat

[jts-khorat]

I venture to suggest that 'Aviator' is reincarnated as 'Globe'. Why the change of name ???

Somehow I was banned from posting here and was jumping through hoops trying to get back on, just to reply to some of the insulting answers like the following.

[basically you pulled down your own trousers and now you post this here so we all can see you naked ass. ]

Would you like to have a picure of the birthmark on my ass?? I can oblige you with that if you wish.

[/b]Yes, in spades. Today I was supposed to get my truck back. Nothing but more excuses and stalling tactics. I haven't lost my humor yet though. At one point I was seriously thinking of getting a fire arm and and blow the guy's brains out, but what good would it do? He has a wife and a 3 year-old son.

Unluckily, with your latest sentence, we all can see more of your birthmark than we wish to. It was actually about you putting your trousers up again because there is and most likely never has been much of interest to see...

If you cannot see that you are not good-hearted but a stupid fool #forcing# those Thais to rip you off (even if they rather would not, you make it too obviously easy). You got ripped off how many times by the same guy and you are STILL talking to him??

One has to speak clearly because you so obviously love your victim-role that you have to replay it again and again. This makes you nothing but a nutcase, so PLEASE keep your trousers ON.

--

Geriatrickid has it at least in this regard completely right and it is the sole reason that I have an immediate disliking to Globe.

Overt demonstrations of empathy and concern by the elderly is common. It is so common, that this demographic is specifically targeted by con artists.

Nothing too much off-kilter in his posts about the kid, they could be completely harmless. Or they could not.

But I would give him in this the right of doubt, he mentioned the story by himself. That still does not take the necessity away to look closely why he is ripped off so constantly and badly. He is the perfect example why Thais think we Farang as a group are gullible and should be parted from our wordly goods as fast as possible.

So get your act together, Globe, it IS not difficult NOT to be a victim (as much fun as it might be for you, it is UNHEALTHY).

Edited September 10, 2007 by jts-khorat

[Super Hans]

But I would give him in this the right of doubt, he mentioned the story by himself. That still does not take the necessity away to look closely why he is ripped off so constantly and badly. He is the perfect example why Thais think we Farang as a group are gullible and should be parted from our wordly goods as fast as possible.

What are you saying here? It's ok to rip off the gullible? I would suggest it's better to condemn those taking advantage rather than those gullible enough to be ripped off by the unscrupulous.

[jts-khorat]

But I would give him in this the right of doubt, he mentioned the story by himself. That still does not take the necessity away to look closely why he is ripped off so constantly and badly. He is the perfect example why Thais think we Farang as a group are gullible and should be parted from our wordly goods as fast as possible.

What are you saying here? It's ok to rip off the gullible? I would suggest it's better to condemn those taking advantage rather than those gullible enough to be ripped off by the unscrupulous.

No, it is not okay to rip off the gullible. Just 'gullible' would mean one were to be ripped off once, maybe twice by the same guy at max.

But this guy is not just making it easy from what one can read, he actually #wants# to get ripped off, it happened so often that there must be madness or something pretty similar behind -- or victim syndrome. Anyway, he should get his act together either way, because the Thais will not show him any mercy after they have bled him dry.

I would venture that he actually invites the circling sharks to just bite one more time, so I cannot find that much fault in somebody taking what is so freely/crazily offered. It is human nature.

And funny enough, how quickly he got into the role of 'victim' even on this forum with just a few posts, he being a well-meaning individual or not being not even of any importance. Being accused of being a pedophile is rather harsh stuff to chew on and one would have thought he would have posted from then on very carefully to clear things up instead of pushing it.

Again not that difficult to analyze how he not only seemed to invite such a bashing, but then fuelled the flames to an extent that got him banned (I must have over-read for what actually, or it got deleted altogether) and people rightly or wrongly pointing fingers in all kinds of directions long after he was gone.

A minute of thinking before posting, just a weak try in emphathy how people who might not know or symphatize with him will react and some simple psychology would have let this thread go into a complete different direction.

As would, I suggest, his 'community life' with the Thais that gorge themselves so absolutely shamelessly on him.

Globe, get your act together. It is not difficult. Just my 2 cents.

[VonD]

True:

There is a difference between history and hatefulness ...

However, I don't think this tid-bit of wisdom ever goes out of style ... even in suburban Utopia of THAILAND ...

"Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it"

[endure]

Looks like it's time to put this to bed.