Life Insurance

[foolforlove]

i know there is an insurance forum on here now, so i hope i will not be lashed too much with an over-cooked spaghetti noodle for posting here....

has anyone had an experience in Thailand with getting life insurance (eg term life insurance) and then naming your bf as the beneficiary?

i talked to one place (ING) and they said the beneficiary has to be someone with the same last name as me. but that i could name "my estate" as the beneficiary. and then somehow have a trust inside my estate that would receive the proceeds. and i could direct the trust wherever i wanted....

[vreemd13]

Strange name "life insurance". It might insure opposite, death.

Are you sure you want to spent money to this (ING) Dutch western bank institution, supposely safe way of life security.

Think about it, save your insurance money (with bigger profit) if you want to live a long happy life.

[stevejones123]

You can buy term life insurance over the internet, and I am sure they will not put limitations on who can be the beneficiary.

[ProThaiExpat]

By specifying "term" life insurance, you have avoided most of the negatives about most "life" insurance policies. At least with term insurance, you are getting more what you pay for.

I think the information you got from ING regarding creating a trust after you designate your estate as beneficiary is incorrect.

It is a simple matter to name your estate as the beneficiary of any life insurance policy and then go to the local amphur and execute a Thai will naming your b/f as legatee for your insurance benefit in the case of your death.

Your Thai will should cover all your assets in Thailand and may name many legatees if you so desire. It is good practice to further indicate you have a will outside of Thailand covering your non-Thai assets,if such is the case.

A lawyer may not be necessary if you have an interpreter to interact with the amphur staff, however if your Thai assets are substantial and there will be more than one legatee, a lawyer would be a good idea.

[geriatrickid]

If the intent of the life insurance policy is to provide a benefit to a loved one to ensure that the person is looked after you are gone and to pay off any of your debts/bills, then care should be taken in selecting the company that will be expected to pay.

Picking the best price from the internet is not sound financial advice. Select a reputable financial institution that's been around for awhile, and that is subject to regulation and is part of an industry insurance program in the event of insolvency.

In addition to prothai's solid advice it would be prudent to consider appropriate estate planning such as a notarized or registered will. Your will allows you to dispose of your assets as you see fit once the debts and bills are paid off. (If your estate is large enough consider the appointment of an executor or executors.) When naming the beneficiary, you can simply state "Estate" or someone's name. This is your legal right. However if you name someone make sure that it is revocable, i.e. that you can change it. When filling out the application, if there are health questions, answer truthfully. If the autopsy and death review shows pre existing medical ailments that were known, the policy is cancelled ipso facto.

Term insurance for a period of 5 or 10 years is usually your best bet. Some policies are non cancelable. (Ask) If you are elderly, consider a longer term because once you become ill or develop a medical condition, you aint gettin nuthin without a massive surcharge. Remember that the life insurer is gambling that you are not going to die for a certain period of time so that it can invest the premium paid in order to satisfy the possibility of. When you buy the policy you are gambling that you will die, so buy on that basis if you want peace of mind.

Agent commissions can be 100% in the first year of a policy with some companies and then drop off to 1-5% in subsequent years. Ask. You have the right to know. This is important because an agent that sells a high commission policy will likely come back the next year and tell you to switch the policy to adifferent insurer. This practice is called churning. It also means that if you have to make changes in later years, the agent won't care about you because he's not making anything off the service.

Just remember that it's your policy and you pay the premium. You can do as you so choose. BTW, I hope you don't ever have to use it

[foolforlove]

thanks for this good advice.

i especially liked the tip about filing at the local amphoe.

[Scott]

Where I work, the benficiary of a life insurance policy cannot be a Thai national unless you are legally married (I would guess if you had children, maybe they could be). We had a meeting with the insurance people sometime ago and that was their rules.

Some folks argued and the guy just politely told them there are plenty of people who would kill you for that money and frankly, we won't insure you on that basis!! I guess they figure with a Mrs. in front of it you have a better chance of survival.

[ProThaiExpat]

The principle Scott is referring to is the one regarding an "insurable interest". If an "insurable interest" in a non-relative can be established, most carriers will insure. So, for instance, a partner in a business would have an "insurable interest" in his partner as his partners death may well substantially harm the surviving partner, etc.

Likewise, if a distant relative or a relative without proximity tries to insure, chances are it would be difficult, as the motive for obtaining the insurance is closely examined.

[geriatrickid]

Hence the need for estate planning. The beneficiary can be the estate and the will can direct the payment of the estate or proceeds from the life policy. I know this is only going to cement the perception that I am a wacko, but I have left a sizeable chunk of my estate to my companion animals. It's in my will and I can't wait for one of my greedy brothers to contest it. Unfortunately for him it's filed with legal counsel.

[phayao]

Are you sure you want to spent money to this (ING) Dutch western bank institution, supposely safe way of life security.

Think about it, save your insurance money (with bigger profit) if you want to live a long happy life.

After reading your lines I was left really worried as I have my "life" insurance (called "retired pension plan") with National Nederlanden (now ING) and Im only a few years before receiving back any benefits. Is my money and future quality of life in any danger with that "Dutch western bank".; I haven't heard of any complaints yet, but your comments left me wandering. Please elaborate your opinion.

[vreemd13]

Are you sure you want to spent money to this (ING) Dutch western bank institution, supposely safe way of life security.

Think about it, save your insurance money (with bigger profit) if you want to live a long happy life.

After reading your lines I was left really worried as I have my "life" insurance (called "retired pension plan") with National Nederlanden (now ING) and Im only a few years before receiving back any benefits. Is my money and future quality of life in any danger with that "Dutch western bank".; I haven't heard of any complaints yet, but your comments left me wandering. Please elaborate your opinion.

Sorry, do not worry, no problem about this specific company solvability.

I tried to express my dislike against the expression "life insurance" and my aversion in general towards insurance companies. Yet insurance companies:

- make big profits (and you as customer have to pay its profit)

- find any excuse not to pay if you claim

- assume your life will be better off when everthing is insured

- omit many negative information about risks or additional costs

However next warning, it may not apply, because I am not an expert at this subject. Some western life or retirement insurances are in fact investment-funds insurances, without you knowing it. You pay a monthly amount of money and after a certain period an amount of money is paid to you at once or this amount is paid in monthly parts as pension income. First you pay a commission fee to effect the policy, somehow this commission fee is charged to you. However, every month the insurance company charge you additional costs too. Purpose is to cover costs as administration, management of the funds, etc. This cost could be a minimum of 30% of your monthly deposit. Thus really you save only 70% of your money. However, when the policy is in fact an investment-fund, it is not certain how much your policy will pay out at the end of the period. It could be a lot less as depicted from the start, while stock exchange funds are unpredictable. You have not saved 70% of your money (with fixed interest profit), but bought shares.

That is way I mentioned "with higher profit". Save 100% of your money at your bank account in case you want to live a long happy life. It gains you already 30%, while these additional costs are your loss and goes directly to insurance company profit.

BTW: the minimum 30% monthly costs could be in fact go up to 80% (last year in the news), depending on your monthly deposit amount or insurance company. Not difficult to figure out that 20% of your money at an insurance company can never profit higher against 100% of your money at a saving bank account (if you last the total period of the policy, which everybody certainly wants).

[phayao]

Sorry, do not worry, no problem about this specific company solvability (National Nederlanden = ING).

..............................

............. because I am not an expert at this subject.

That's better, thank you. We gay people have to be even more careful with our economic future, pension, funds, invesments than any ordinary "hetero", as we have to look after ourselves and probably after our TBF's future, with no children to support us when we're old and not able to work.

[geriatrickid]

I tried to express my dislike against the expression "life insurance" and my aversion in general towards insurance companies. Yet insurance companies:

- make big profits (and you as customer have to pay its profit)

- find any excuse not to pay if you claim

- assume your life will be better off when everthing is insured

- omit many negative information about risks or additional costs

Hoooboy. where to start, The insurance industry as a whole has the worst profits in the financial sector. They do not make "huge" profits compared to other industries. An insurer does not look for excuses not to pay. If they didn't pay, no one would buy insurance. What some people try to do is use an insurer as a source of funds to pay for uninsured events. An insurer is usually a public company that is held by you the general public via the stock market, mutual and pension funds. It has a fiduciary duty to enforce its contracts of insurance. You did provide the reason why an insurer won't pay in your statement "omit many negative information about risks or additional costs". Omit material fact in any contract and the contract can be canceled at inception. One is obliged to make an honest declaration that allows an insurer to assess the risk it is being asked to accept.

An insurance policy at its heart is a transfer of risk. You say to a company, hey I need to lay off some risk. The company says ok, looks at the actuarial table, calculates the likelihood of a payout and then charges a premium commensurate with the risk. The intent of insurance is to spread the risk of a few amongst the many. In life insurance the company has to collect enough to balance the payouts, cover the operating costs (e.g. employees, offices etc.) and to provide a return to the investors that have put up the money.Most life insurers no longer make their money from the life industry itself. They make it from the pension and investment funds operated by sub companies. The typical life company with its sales force now serves as a conduit to channel business to the aforementioned sub companies.

A prudent investor purchases a life policy if he/she has dependents or expected future costs arising from his/her demise. One should never ever purchase a life policy as an investment. It is one of the worst investments possible on par with running a Thai bar.

However, the OP was being a good partner and ensuring that his loved one was cared for. He may not have the money available to provide a lump sum trust fund now of B5million or whatever. The life policy allows him to make sure that there will be that amount if he otherwise croaks. Aside from being a thoughtful and caring guy, he's doing the right thing. Sadly he's in the minority of the general population that leave their loved ones with financial hardship and debt.

[Kaojai]

I have medical insurance which also pays a lump sum benefit in the case of accidental death. My friend is the beneficiary. There was no problem naming him as such.

[astral]

If you are the one paying the premium there should be no problem in nominating

whoever you want as the beneficiary.

If you do not specify then the sum becomes part of your estate

and you can specify in your will how you want it distributed.

[gordman]

I think you should shearch for more flexible forms of insurance, something like no medical exam life insurance or other forms, I don't know much about Thailand terms and conditions but this shouldn's be inpossible to reach, after all insurance companies also run a business and satisfying customers needs.