2 hours ago, glennamy said:

Brexit was never fully implemented. Those in power didn't want to leave, so they did their best to scupper the deal!

The EU project is a basket case itself. It is doomed!

Ah the old "Brexit wasn't done properly" thing. Nearly 10 years since the vote. More than six years since final separation. When is this going to cease to be an excuse? How long can you drag it on for? When are the benefits coming exactly? Must be soon right?

Everything that Remain said would happen - and was filed away under "project fear" - has happened. But it's "but but but but it wasn't done properly". If only it was done properly then we'd all be basking in the sunlit uplands.

We got control back of our borders though!! Oh wait, no, we didn't. That got worse too. As everyone said it would.

Ah, hold on, it's all because of the ECHR!! If we just leave that then it is basking time! Except it won't be, everything will be worse.

Just admit it was a failure, it was always going to be a failure. And now it's screwed for generations as there is no easy way back in and certainly we would never get the exemptions we had negotiated as a founder. No veto. No exemption from joining the single currency. No advantageous rebates. No influence.

Well done.

And now a generation of young people are growing up without all the educational, employment, and life experience opportunities that we had as part of the EU.

Then you get meatheads like this and I cry laughing. Som nam na.

https://inews.co.uk/news/world/i-voted-brexit-face-red-tape-nightmare-4345861?srsltid=AfmBOooK2biAWtr5sEY-OILT16cD8-FUyYX_2JydzEiGe_EpupYlsyDr

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/nov/01/i-wish-id-voted-to-stay-in-brixham-fishers-on-the-cost-of-brexit

So 53% +/- 1.5% would vote to rejoin the EU. Given other confounding factors this poll shows nothing.

2 hours ago, BLMFem said:

You're right, just like they've found out in the US!

That's great

Do you have a similar graph for illegal immigrants?

3 minutes ago, GanDoonToonPet said:

That's great

Do you have a similar graph for illegal immigrants?

Yep, overwhelmingly positive. If you access the Cato institute's website you'll find it all meticulously documented.

PS. I would have paid money to see your face when reading my reply!

2 hours ago, BLMFem said:

"Every succeeding year is worse than the last."

Really? We've been hearing this for decades already, so what is actually left now??🤣

And another thing: If things are so grim, why are countries still lining up to join, do you think? Surely it's like buying a ticket for a passage with the Titanic after it struck the iceberg, won't you say?

More like Hotel California, where you can check in but never leave.

23 minutes ago, BLMFem said:

Yep, overwhelmingly positive. If you access the Cato institute's website you'll find it all meticulously documented

Then why didn't you post it instead of posting an AI copy & paste which didn't answer the question?

Note the qualifier 'effective' on tax rate. This includes sales tax (VAT) and duties on petrol, alcohol etc.

ALL low paid workers pay a higher proportion of their wages on these taxes and since the majority of illegal workers are low paid...

Of course we do! It's only the uneducated poor whites who voted to leave Europe. The poor idiots were to uneducated to understand the ramifications of leaving Europe.

10 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

The EU is stronger than ever, and if fact they are getting ready to kick the US out of NATO!!!

That;s what you ***s want, so that you can trick america into attacking another Nato member, Turkey. We know your tricks!

19 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Thats too close to call, there needs to be another poll

There needs to be an election, fought on the matter, with a clear mandate for joining.

That has been the problem, right from the very start, with British membership of the EU.

3 hours ago, JAG said:

There needs to be an election, fought on the matter, with a clear mandate for joining.

That has been the problem, right from the very start, with British membership of the EU.

3 hours ago, JAG said:

There needs to be an election, fought on the matter, with a clear mandate for joining.

That has been the problem, right from the very start, with British membership of the EU.

We were taken into the EU on a fundemental deceit by Edward Heath and since then successive governments have manipulated the political ptocess to ensure that treaty after treaty, extension of powers after extension of powers, were never subjected to proper parliamentary let alone electoral scrutiny. Even the referendum on leaving was to a large extent disregarded by much of the political establishment. It wasn't until the election of Boris Johnson that the electorate had its say.

Now I am not particularly averse to rejoining, although I have reservations. However any decision to rejoin must be properly discussed, campaigned for and backed by the sort of electoral mandate which ultimately took us out.

Diverging slightly, it is perhaps amusing that "Olly Robbins", the civil servant who took it upon himself to impede so much of the negotiations to implement Brexit has come unstuck over an unrelated matter (Mandelson)!

I think all the EU countries should eliminate all the useless individual governments and just have a big, central government in Brussels.

The same law, and law enforcement everywhere, the same court everywhere, the same military everywhere, the same benefits everywhere, the currency everywhere, the same press everywhere, and religion outlawed everywhere.

Polls also showed that before we voted to leave. 😃

7 hours ago, 1tooth said:

Of course we do! It's only the uneducated poor whites who voted to leave Europe. The poor idiots were to uneducated to understand the ramifications of leaving Europe.

I am a graduate of Sandhurst and a civilian University. I was persuaded after considerable thought to vote to leave the EU. I have since, to a certain extent, driven by a massive change in circumstances, changed my position. I am, shall we say, not averse to the idea of rejoining if a suitable deal can be negotiated. Mind you being referred to as a "meathead" or "gammon" may also affect my views!

I may not be particularly wealthy, but I do still have the vast majority of my teeth, and understand the difference between "to" and "too"!

32 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I think all the EU countries should eliminate all the useless individual governments and just have a big, central government in Brussels.

The same law, and law enforcement everywhere, the same court everywhere, the same military everywhere, the same benefits everywhere, the currency everywhere, the same press everywhere, and religion outlawed everywhere.

And eliminate provincial and city/village governments as well.

7 hours ago, 1tooth said:

Of course we do! It's only the uneducated poor whites who voted to leave Europe. The poor idiots were to uneducated to understand the ramifications of leaving Europe.

And yet you lack the education to understand that we left the EU, not Europe.

Or to spell "too" correctly. 😃

9 minutes ago, stevenl said:

And eliminate provincial and city/village governments as well.

Exactly.

Brexit smashed the living daylights out of the pound and I suspect it will do the same on the way back as the rich smell another opportunity to rinse the poor 🤔

Considering the number of wars Europe has had to endure over not just decades but centuries.

The European Union has been a major force for peace in Europe, leading to over 70 years of relative peace between member states.

By fostering economic, political integration and the single currency it made war not merely unthinkable, but materially practically impossible.

The EU was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 2012 for this achievement.

So not all bad eh.

17 minutes ago, Bannoi said:

Considering the number of wars Europe has had to endure over not just decades but centuries.

The European Union has been a major force for peace in Europe, leading to over 70 years of relative peace between member states.

By fostering economic, political integration and the single currency it made war not merely unthinkable, but materially practically impossible.

The EU was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 2012 for this achievement.

So not all bad eh.

So like the USSR in that way.

Didn't Gorbachev with the Nobel Peace Prize?

1 hour ago, JAG said:

We were taken into the EU on a fundemental deceit by Edward Heath and since then successive governments have manipulated the political ptocess to ensure that treaty after treaty, extension of powers after extension of powers, were never subjected to proper parliamentary let alone electoral scrutiny. Even the referendum on leaving was to a large extent disregarded by much of the political establishment. It wasn't until the election of Boris Johnson that the electorate had its say.

Now I am not particularly averse to rejoining, although I have reservations. However any decision to rejoin must be properly discussed, campaigned for and backed by the sort of electoral mandate which ultimately took us out.

Diverging slightly, it is perhaps amusing that "Olly Robbins", the civil servant who took it upon himself to impede so much of the negotiations to implement Brexit has come unstuck over an unrelated matter (Mandelson)!

Agree with all of that, except that Mandelson was also pro EU and was a commissioner for 4 years. What a varied career he's had!

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

And yet you lack the education to understand that we left the EU, not Europe.

Or to spell "too" correctly. 😃

Yes, especially amusing given the context.

38 minutes ago, Bannoi said:

Considering the number of wars Europe has had to endure over not just decades but centuries.

The European Union has been a major force for peace in Europe, leading to over 70 years of relative peace between member states.

By fostering economic, political integration and the single currency it made war not merely unthinkable, but materially practically impossible.

The EU was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 2012 for this achievement.

So not all bad eh.

The main reason for such a long period of peace in Europe was that the continent was completely broken, broke and shattered after WW2.

15 hours ago, GanDoonToonPet said:

Then why didn't you post it instead of posting an AI copy & paste which didn't answer the question?

Because I'm not your personal research assistant.

Hope this clarifies things.

2 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

I think all the EU countries should eliminate all the useless individual governments and just have a big, central government in Brussels.

The same law, and law enforcement everywhere, the same court everywhere, the same military everywhere, the same benefits everywhere, the currency everywhere, the same press everywhere, and religion outlawed everywhere.

Even though it's a pearl clutch, that's not a bad idea!

2 hours ago, JAG said:

I am a graduate of Sandhurst and a civilian University. I was persuaded after considerable thought to vote to leave the EU. I have since, to a certain extent, driven by a massive change in circumstances, changed my position. I am, shall we say, not averse to the idea of rejoining if a suitable deal can be negotiated. Mind you being referred to as a "meathead" or "gammon" may also affect my views!

I may not be particularly wealthy, but I do still have the vast majority of my teeth, and understand the difference between "to" and "too"!

The problem is, we had the best deal before we "left" (there is a lot of EU/EEC law permanently enshrined in British law). Any deal offered to rejoin would be, at best, second rate. And they might not want us back anyhow.

I voted to remain, my siblings voted to leave, a vote they now regret. In my role, at th time, as an analyst, I needed to provide a "balanced" position paper for my particular industry. I would say it was difficult to come up with an upside for the industry at the time, on that peculiarly quiet train into Euston (very subdued, felt like someone had died). I provide analysis for the medical industry (after a career in the defence/CBRNE sector working with the boffins at Porton Down). I predicted that there was an opportunity for the UK to become a launch pad for frankly shonky Chinese medical diagnostics who wanted to avoid the higher regulatory bar of the then upcoming new medical regulations (Brexit meant only half of these regulations were implemented into UK law). Companies from less regulated parts of the world used to use CE marketing approval as a way to gain credibility in their own markets.

During COVID, yes, some really bad tests found their way onto the UK market. Ironically, the Chinese regulators are pretty much on the ball using regulations to improve their own industry, and are just plowing on setting frankly very high bars on the industry. In the UK, the government is still faffing around with "stakeholder consultations".

Whatever nicknames have been applied to you because of the way you voted, those who voted to remain have taken 10 years of stick:

Remoaners

Project Fear Believers

Europhiles

Globalists (one of the more disturbing ones)

Traitors

Unpatriotic

Enemies of the People (very Mao-esque_

Snowflakes

Quislings

Anti-British

Collaborators

Sticks and stones etc.

There were many reasons why I voted for the Status Quo (note, not an approval of the EU, but a preference over the alternative). One of which, was, ironically, the Constitutional Settlement of the United Kingdom. When Tony Blair introduced devolution changes, devolving more powers to the nations, I knew then that he had started a process, unintentionally, for facile electoral reasons, for the dissolution of my country in my life time. Northern Ireland was a major reason. The Good Friday Agreement, engineered by Major's government, pushed home by Blair and Mowlam, was a genuine breakthrough. It all hinged on the fact that Ireland and the UK were both EU members, with citizens of both enjoying similar rights. It allowed people in Northern Ireland to have their dual identity to be guaranteed by governments. Brexit threatens that peace. Its created an acceleration of the process of Irish unification. The GFA ironically cemented in place the constitutional integrity of the UK within the EU, it would be another argument against the Scottish Nationalists ("you won't be an EU member if you left").

I don't think the UK will ever rejoin the EU, mainly because, when the opportunity comes, there won't be a UK. Wales, Scotland might join. I'm coming to a view, similar to how I viewed German Unification in 1989, regarding England and the EU. I wasn't 100% supportive of German reunification; I went with Thatcher, who thought a separate East and West Germany should be permanent, as a reminder of an unforgiveable crime. England shouldn't be let back in, as a reminder of what back stabbing swivel eyed cabinet bastards did.

At the moment, the UK looks like collapsing from the edges; Northern Ireland and Scotland going first, and that would be fairly peaceful. I expect that to happen in the next 8-12 years, about when I start drawing a state pension. The alternative is a collapse from the centre; England leaves the UK by reconsituting a Kingdom of England, taking over control of the central bank, treasury and armed forces. That sparks Scotland to declare independance as a defensive measure, leading to arguments about the UNSC seat, the control of Trident etc. That's a noisier collapse of the UK.

2 hours ago, sammieuk1 said:

Brexit smashed the living daylights out of the pound and I suspect it will do the same on the way back as the rich smell another opportunity to rinse the poor 🤔

If the UK rejoins there will be no Pound.

13 minutes ago, Roadsternut said:

The problem is, we had the best deal before we "left" (there is a lot of EU/EEC law permanently enshrined in British law). Any deal offered to rejoin would be, at best, second rate. And they might not want us back anyhow.

I voted to remain, my siblings voted to leave, a vote they now regret. In my role, at th time, as an analyst, I needed to provide a "balanced" position paper for my particular industry. I would say it was difficult to come up with an upside for the industry at the time, on that peculiarly quiet train into Euston (very subdued, felt like someone had died). I provide analysis for the medical industry (after a career in the defence/CBRNE sector working with the boffins at Porton Down). I predicted that there was an opportunity for the UK to become a launch pad for frankly shonky Chinese medical diagnostics who wanted to avoid the higher regulatory bar of the then upcoming new medical regulations (Brexit meant only half of these regulations were implemented into UK law). Companies from less regulated parts of the world used to use CE marketing approval as a way to gain credibility in their own markets.

During COVID, yes, some really bad tests found their way onto the UK market. Ironically, the Chinese regulators are pretty much on the ball using regulations to improve their own industry, and are just plowing on setting frankly very high bars on the industry. In the UK, the government is still faffing around with "stakeholder consultations".

Whatever nicknames have been applied to you because of the way you voted, those who voted to remain have taken 10 years of stick:

Remoaners

Project Fear Believers

Europhiles

Globalists (one of the more disturbing ones)

Traitors

Unpatriotic

Enemies of the People (very Mao-esque_

Snowflakes

Quislings

Anti-British

Collaborators

Sticks and stones etc.

There were many reasons why I voted for the Status Quo (note, not an approval of the EU, but a preference over the alternative). One of which, was, ironically, the Constitutional Settlement of the United Kingdom. When Tony Blair introduced devolution changes, devolving more powers to the nations, I knew then that he had started a process, unintentionally, for facile electoral reasons, for the dissolution of my country in my life time. Northern Ireland was a major reason. The Good Friday Agreement, engineered by Major's government, pushed home by Blair and Mowlam, was a genuine breakthrough. It all hinged on the fact that Ireland and the UK were both EU members, with citizens of both enjoying similar rights. It allowed people in Northern Ireland to have their dual identity to be guaranteed by governments. Brexit threatens that peace. Its created an acceleration of the process of Irish unification. The GFA ironically cemented in place the constitutional integrity of the UK within the EU, it would be another argument against the Scottish Nationalists ("you won't be an EU member if you left").

I don't think the UK will ever rejoin the EU, mainly because, when the opportunity comes, there won't be a UK. Wales, Scotland might join. I'm coming to a view, similar to how I viewed German Unification in 1989, regarding England and the EU. I wasn't 100% supportive of German reunification; I went with Thatcher, who thought a separate East and West Germany should be permanent, as a reminder of an unforgiveable crime. England shouldn't be let back in, as a reminder of what back stabbing swivel eyed cabinet bastards did.

At the moment, the UK looks like collapsing from the edges; Northern Ireland and Scotland going first, and that would be fairly peaceful. I expect that to happen in the next 8-12 years, about when I start drawing a state pension. The alternative is a collapse from the centre; England leaves the UK by reconsituting a Kingdom of England, taking over control of the central bank, treasury and armed forces. That sparks Scotland to declare independance as a defensive measure, leading to arguments about the UNSC seat, the control of Trident etc. That's a noisier collapse of the UK.

Or just noise.

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

The main reason for such a long period of peace in Europe was that the continent was completely broken, broke and shattered after WW2.

So was Germany after WW1 only took 20 yrs for another one to start.

Whilst the EU may not be the only reason there have been no more wars between member states NATO also has had a part to play in it, there is no doubt in my mind that the EU has been a major force for peace in Europe.

The more integrated the EU becomes and the more people travel live and work between the various countries that make up the EU the less likely any disagreements escalate into open war.

1 hour ago, Roadsternut said:

because of the way you voted, those who voted to remain have taken 10 years of stick:

Remoaners

Project Fear Believers

Europhiles

Globalists (one of the more disturbing ones)

Traitors

Unpatriotic

Enemies of the People (very Mao-esque_

Snowflakes

Quislings

Anti-British

Collaborators

Sticks and stones etc.

I was fairly tongue in cheek over these nicknames actually - although I do confess to have been rather upset when an old friend of mine, a barrister, "transitioned" to a woman.

I didnt understand her decision but nonetheless I supported her publicly, in particular in a field in which we were both involved - steam railway preservation as it happens - if you think conventional politics are vicious and spiteful take a look at some of the shenanigans behind the scenes in that movement! Anyway she repaid my support by launching a very public attack on me as a "gammon"! Not to worry I suppose. Fences can be mended.

I have to say that one of the images which stuck in my mind was of that fellow Geldof ( of whom I had previously quite a high opinion) shrieking abuse at Farage and the fisherman as they sailed up the Thames.

24 minutes ago, JAG said:

I was fairly tongue in cheek over these nicknames actually - although I do confess to have been rather upset when an old friend of mine, a barrister, "transitioned" to a woman.

I didnt understand her decision but nonetheless I supported her publicly, in particular in a field in which we were both involved - steam railway preservation as it happens - if you think conventional politics are vicious and spiteful take a look at some of the shenanigans behind the scenes in that movement! Anyway she repaid my support by launching a very public attack on me as a "gammon"! Not to worry I suppose. Fences can be mended.

I have to say that one of the images which stuck in my mind was of that fellow Geldof ( of whom I had previously quite a high opinion) shrieking abuse at Farage and the fisherman as they sailed up the Thames.

I suppose that "movement" is, at its core, "mind your own business". What your friend did has no effect on your life. You only have male friends, and now find yourself confused. Your friend likely sensed your change in attitude, no matter what you think you outwardly displayed.

As for Sir Bob "shrieking abuse", it wasn't. Farage's movement had put together a Brexit flotilla as some sort of stunt, while he did a photo op with the media. The "In" campaign organised their own flotilla, and Sir Bob got on a megaphone and rattled off some facts to the erstwhile member of the EU's Fisheries Committee.

Nigel, you're a fraud

Here are the facts about fishing

Britain makes more money than any other country in Europe from fishing

Two, Britain has the second largest quota for fish in Europe after Denmark

Three, Britain has the third largest landings

Fourth, you are no fisherman's friend

You are on the European Parliament Fishing Committee and you attended one out of forty three meetings

You're a fraud, Nigel, go back down the river, 'cause you're up one without a canoe or a paddle

Follow by Sir Bob using a masturbatory gesture of a very British kind, hence the headlines that day of "Sir Bob Geldof Brands Nigel Farage A <deleted> In A Flotilla Face-Off On The Thames"

Farage

We used to protest against the Establishment, now the Establishment protests against us. We must be doing something right. Uh, what Mr Geldof, multi-millionaire Mr Geldof, was show his absolute contempt for the men and women that have come here today from right across the United Kingdom, asking, demanding to be listened to as their communities are destroyed by the common fisheries policy. I think frankly as a spectacle it's pretty disgraceful

I saw a frank exchange of views, you saw "abuse". Both side engaged in energetic banter and ann exchange of views. Funny that, I thought that was what free speech was all about. Farage is a paid politician. Its part of the job description that they endure forceful viewpoints from the electorate, rich or poor, challening their views. Farage tried to dismiss Geldof's opinion as legitimate because of his supposed wealth (earnt wealth), instead of saying that he respiect his right to air an opinion, but then counter with his own argument about the points raised, and why he wasn't attending all those meetings. The Brexit camp had selective, what the Americans call, Butthurtedness. They enjoyed sending out supporters armed with camera phones to hound MPs walking home, as that's what Freedom of Expression is all about.

I've lost count of the number of Farage "spectacles", disgraceful or not. Notably, his reaction to Bob Geldorf was warmly welcomed by the Communist publication, the Morning Star.

Bob Geldorf is not a member of the establishment by any means.

Forceful exchange of views or hurling abuse? She was an MP, paid by the people, so maybe it was ok to be called a Nazi and Scum.