9 minutes ago, Roadsternut said:

You only have male friends, and now find yourself confused.

Really not sure where you get that from - I have plenty of friends male and female.

3 hours ago, Roadsternut said:

The problem is, we had the best deal before we "left" (there is a lot of EU/EEC law permanently enshrined in British law). Any deal offered to rejoin would be, at best, second rate. And they might not want us back anyhow.

I voted to remain, my siblings voted to leave, a vote they now regret. In my role, at th time, as an analyst, I needed to provide a "balanced" position paper for my particular industry. I would say it was difficult to come up with an upside for the industry at the time, on that peculiarly quiet train into Euston (very subdued, felt like someone had died). I provide analysis for the medical industry (after a career in the defence/CBRNE sector working with the boffins at Porton Down). I predicted that there was an opportunity for the UK to become a launch pad for frankly shonky Chinese medical diagnostics who wanted to avoid the higher regulatory bar of the then upcoming new medical regulations (Brexit meant only half of these regulations were implemented into UK law). Companies from less regulated parts of the world used to use CE marketing approval as a way to gain credibility in their own markets.

During COVID, yes, some really bad tests found their way onto the UK market. Ironically, the Chinese regulators are pretty much on the ball using regulations to improve their own industry, and are just plowing on setting frankly very high bars on the industry. In the UK, the government is still faffing around with "stakeholder consultations".

Whatever nicknames have been applied to you because of the way you voted, those who voted to remain have taken 10 years of stick:

Remoaners

Project Fear Believers

Europhiles

Globalists (one of the more disturbing ones)

Traitors

Unpatriotic

Enemies of the People (very Mao-esque_

Snowflakes

Quislings

Anti-British

Collaborators

Sticks and stones etc.

There were many reasons why I voted for the Status Quo (note, not an approval of the EU, but a preference over the alternative). One of which, was, ironically, the Constitutional Settlement of the United Kingdom. When Tony Blair introduced devolution changes, devolving more powers to the nations, I knew then that he had started a process, unintentionally, for facile electoral reasons, for the dissolution of my country in my life time. Northern Ireland was a major reason. The Good Friday Agreement, engineered by Major's government, pushed home by Blair and Mowlam, was a genuine breakthrough. It all hinged on the fact that Ireland and the UK were both EU members, with citizens of both enjoying similar rights. It allowed people in Northern Ireland to have their dual identity to be guaranteed by governments. Brexit threatens that peace. Its created an acceleration of the process of Irish unification. The GFA ironically cemented in place the constitutional integrity of the UK within the EU, it would be another argument against the Scottish Nationalists ("you won't be an EU member if you left").

I don't think the UK will ever rejoin the EU, mainly because, when the opportunity comes, there won't be a UK. Wales, Scotland might join. I'm coming to a view, similar to how I viewed German Unification in 1989, regarding England and the EU. I wasn't 100% supportive of German reunification; I went with Thatcher, who thought a separate East and West Germany should be permanent, as a reminder of an unforgiveable crime. England shouldn't be let back in, as a reminder of what back stabbing swivel eyed cabinet bastards did.

At the moment, the UK looks like collapsing from the edges; Northern Ireland and Scotland going first, and that would be fairly peaceful. I expect that to happen in the next 8-12 years, about when I start drawing a state pension. The alternative is a collapse from the centre; England leaves the UK by reconsituting a Kingdom of England, taking over control of the central bank, treasury and armed forces. That sparks Scotland to declare independance as a defensive measure, leading to arguments about the UNSC seat, the control of Trident etc. That's a noisier collapse of the UK.

Excellent post, well written and well said.

2 hours ago, Bannoi said:

So was Germany after WW1 only took 20 yrs for another one to start.

Whilst the EU may not be the only reason there have been no more wars between member states NATO also has had a part to play in it, there is no doubt in my mind that the EU has been a major force for peace in Europe.

The more integrated the EU becomes and the more people travel live and work between the various countries that make up the EU the less likely any disagreements escalate into open war.

The origins of the EU lie in the 1950 European Coal and Steel Community. You got to think what a brave act that was; it came from the French. People talk about WW1 and WW2, but in 1950, there would have been people alive with memories of the Franco-Prussian war. French Foreign Minister Robert Schuman proposed the idea, saying it made the idea of war between France and Germang "not merely unthinkable, but materially impossible". When Britain started running its occupation zone in Germany, an agricultural region, it realised that not only did this area feed much of Germany, but also it supported the economies in the surrounding nations. Britain extended rationing at home postwar, to keep this area afloat until they could get the German economy rebuilt.

Yugoslavia was a reminder to the world of the utter savagery Europeans are capable of, when motivated. Americans talk about their military prowess, though notably try and avoid land battles. Syria might have had ISIS jokers after 10 years of fighting, but it took Europe just 6 months to bring back death camps, as if WW2 was just yesterday. WW2; the British, Americans and Soviets threw everything at the Germans. War is in the blood of Europeans, part of the tribal memory that doesn't exist in the US, which has no modern history of war on its own soil. And you are seeing that tribal memory play out in Ukraine. Those Ukrainian soldiers are fighting as hard, and as savage, as their Grandfathers, and Great Grandfathers. American troops blooded on a recent 60 year history of fighting kids in flipflops, wouldn't last 5 minutes there.

War was a pretty normal thing for Europe and borders were..... flexible.

Getting peace postwar was no easy achievement. That Franco-German cooperation was no easy thing. The wartime Allies were still hanging war criminals at Nuremburg. There were still wrecked German armour all over Normandy in 1950. France had villages preserved as scenes of massacres. France was dealing with its own collaborators.

NATO played a role in the peace as well. An important element was why West Germany never became a nuclear power. Key to that was the American offer to extend the nuclear umbrella. Trump has it arse about face. NATO exists to make sure certain European powers DON't spend too much on defence. When Germany arms, there is a poor track record. What America doesn't want is a Europe that is not on its side. It also wants a divided Europe, so is doing its best to encourage that. A dangerous game as divided Europe goes back to war, but now with nukes. We all know Germany could become a nuclear power overnight if it wishes. It more than has the capability.

But economic cooperation encourages jaw jaw, and makes war more costly, because you have more to lose than to win. Which is also the heart of Reagan's support for free trade. PreWW2 American tariff policy is widely known to provide the tinder for WW2.

17 minutes ago, JAG said:

Really not sure where you get that from - I have plenty of friends male and female.

Ok, so why did it matter to you that a friend "transitioned". It shouldn't have bothered either way. Was he no longer your friend because he was now a she? It obviously did bother you, because you brought it into the discussion about the EU/Brexit history, and name calling.

You seem to feel let down because your friend/ex-friend apparently called you a "Gammon" (circumstances, context not disclosed) because you made a point of apparently rewarding his choice by outwardly maintaining a cordial relationship.

I didnt understand her decision but nonetheless I supported her publicly........she repaid my support by launching a very public attack on me as a "gammon"!

So you only support those decisions provided you are friends, not out of principle. I would consider it a matter of principle.

4 hours ago, Bannoi said:

So was Germany after WW1 only took 20 yrs for another one to start.

Whilst the EU may not be the only reason there have been no more wars between member states NATO also has had a part to play in it, there is no doubt in my mind that the EU has been a major force for peace in Europe.

The more integrated the EU becomes and the more people travel live and work between the various countries that make up the EU the less likely any disagreements escalate into open war.

Really? I'd say that the policies and "freedoms" of the EU and several European countries seem to be driving Europe ever closer to civil unrest, with increasing serious crime rates already in once relatively safe cities and towns. Bravo EU.

1 hour ago, Roadsternut said:

The origins of the EU lie in the 1950 European Coal and Steel Community. You got to think what a brave act that was; it came from the French. People talk about WW1 and WW2, but in 1950, there would have been people alive with memories of the Franco-Prussian war. French Foreign Minister Robert Schuman proposed the idea, saying it made the idea of war between France and Germang "not merely unthinkable, but materially impossible". When Britain started running its occupation zone in Germany, an agricultural region, it realised that not only did this area feed much of Germany, but also it supported the economies in the surrounding nations. Britain extended rationing at home postwar, to keep this area afloat until they could get the German economy rebuilt.

Yugoslavia was a reminder to the world of the utter savagery Europeans are capable of, when motivated. Americans talk about their military prowess, though notably try and avoid land battles. Syria might have had ISIS jokers after 10 years of fighting, but it took Europe just 6 months to bring back death camps, as if WW2 was just yesterday. WW2; the British, Americans and Soviets threw everything at the Germans. War is in the blood of Europeans, part of the tribal memory that doesn't exist in the US, which has no modern history of war on its own soil. And you are seeing that tribal memory play out in Ukraine. Those Ukrainian soldiers are fighting as hard, and as savage, as their Grandfathers, and Great Grandfathers. American troops blooded on a recent 60 year history of fighting kids in flipflops, wouldn't last 5 minutes there.

War was a pretty normal thing for Europe and borders were..... flexible.

Getting peace postwar was no easy achievement. That Franco-German cooperation was no easy thing. The wartime Allies were still hanging war criminals at Nuremburg. There were still wrecked German armour all over Normandy in 1950. France had villages preserved as scenes of massacres. France was dealing with its own collaborators.

NATO played a role in the peace as well. An important element was why West Germany never became a nuclear power. Key to that was the American offer to extend the nuclear umbrella. Trump has it arse about face. NATO exists to make sure certain European powers DON't spend too much on defence. When Germany arms, there is a poor track record. What America doesn't want is a Europe that is not on its side. It also wants a divided Europe, so is doing its best to encourage that. A dangerous game as divided Europe goes back to war, but now with nukes. We all know Germany could become a nuclear power overnight if it wishes. It more than has the capability.

But economic cooperation encourages jaw jaw, and makes war more costly, because you have more to lose than to win. Which is also the heart of Reagan's support for free trade. PreWW2 American tariff policy is widely known to provide the tinder for WW2.

Total bollerks.

2 hours ago, Roadsternut said:

I suppose that "movement" is, at its core, "mind your own business". What your friend did has no effect on your life. You only have male friends, and now find yourself confused. Your friend likely sensed your change in attitude, no matter what you think you outwardly displayed.

As for Sir Bob "shrieking abuse", it wasn't. Farage's movement had put together a Brexit flotilla as some sort of stunt, while he did a photo op with the media. The "In" campaign organised their own flotilla, and Sir Bob got on a megaphone and rattled off some facts to the erstwhile member of the EU's Fisheries Committee.

Follow by Sir Bob using a masturbatory gesture of a very British kind, hence the headlines that day of "Sir Bob Geldof Brands Nigel Farage A <deleted> In A Flotilla Face-Off On The Thames"

Farage

I saw a frank exchange of views, you saw "abuse". Both side engaged in energetic banter and ann exchange of views. Funny that, I thought that was what free speech was all about. Farage is a paid politician. Its part of the job description that they endure forceful viewpoints from the electorate, rich or poor, challening their views. Farage tried to dismiss Geldof's opinion as legitimate because of his supposed wealth (earnt wealth), instead of saying that he respiect his right to air an opinion, but then counter with his own argument about the points raised, and why he wasn't attending all those meetings. The Brexit camp had selective, what the Americans call, Butthurtedness. They enjoyed sending out supporters armed with camera phones to hound MPs walking home, as that's what Freedom of Expression is all about.

I've lost count of the number of Farage "spectacles", disgraceful or not. Notably, his reaction to Bob Geldorf was warmly welcomed by the Communist publication, the Morning Star.

Bob Geldorf is not a member of the establishment by any means.

Forceful exchange of views or hurling abuse? She was an MP, paid by the people, so maybe it was ok to be called a Nazi and Scum.

She was supposed to represent a pro Brexit community. This protest was tame compared to Geldof and his crew.

1 hour ago, Roadsternut said:

Ok, so why did it matter to you that a friend "transitioned". It shouldn't have bothered either way. Was he no longer your friend because he was now a she? It obviously did bother you, because you brought it into the discussion about the EU/Brexit history, and name calling.

You seem to feel let down because your friend/ex-friend apparently called you a "Gammon" (circumstances, context not disclosed) because you made a point of apparently rewarding his choice by outwardly maintaining a cordial relationship.

So you only support those decisions provided you are friends, not out of principle. I would consider it a matter of principle.

1 hour ago, Roadsternut said:

Ok, so why did it matter to you that a friend "transitioned". It shouldn't have bothered either way. Was he no longer your friend because he was now a she? It obviously did bother you, because you brought it into the discussion about the EU/Brexit history, and name calling.

You seem to feel let down because your friend/ex-friend apparently called you a "Gammon" (circumstances, context not disclosed) because you made a point of apparently rewarding his choice by outwardly maintaining a cordial relationship.

So you only support those decisions provided you are friends, not out of principle. I would consider it a matter of principle.

Oh for goodness sake! My point was that I supported her against some very vicious verbal and written attacks, and was surprising and a bit disappointed when she rounded on me as she did. Never mind, you are reading far too much into it.

Damn those meddling EU pols!

'All smartphones, including iPhones, must have replaceable batteries by 2027 in the EU'

https://sea.mashable.com/tech/25136/all-smartphones-including-iphones-must-have-replaceable-batteries-by-2027-in-the-eu

"The European Union is officially requiring all smartphones to have replaceable batteries by 2027. This is a big win for the right-to-repair movement. While it only applies to the EU, the regulation has global ramifications, since it wouldn't make sense to make two different smartphones — one for Europe, one for everywhere else. Regulation will likely impact the global market, changing the design of smartphones for all users. The EU passed a regulation 2022, requiring iPhones to have a USB-C port, which will have a similar global effect."

On 4/18/2026 at 6:18 PM, stevenl said:

How are we going to call it, Brin?

Bretrayal?

Once that simp starmer has gone I think we can take Britain under our wing again. We still love the brits except that ginger fool

They need to look west to the US not east towards the evil EU

31 minutes ago, EastBayRay said:

Bretrayal?

Once that simp starmer has gone I think we can take Britain under our wing again. We still love the brits except that ginger fool

They need to look west to the US not east towards the evil EU

The "evil EU"?

How many school girls has the EU killed recently? How many innocent civilians has it bombed the hell out of in the last year or so?

There is only one evil empire and it sure isn't the EU.

4 hours ago, nauseus said:

Really? I'd say that the policies and "freedoms" of the EU and several European countries seem to be driving Europe ever closer to civil unrest, with increasing serious crime rates already in once relatively safe cities and towns. Bravo EU.

What policies that originated in Brussels/ Strasbourg have driven Europe closer to civil unrest?

On 4/18/2026 at 6:26 PM, BLMFem said:

You're right, just like they've found out in the US!

Never believe any of the garbage put out by the Cato Institute without doing THOROUGH fact checking using at least three reputable and unbiased sources.

Also, concerning taxes: Well....DUH......

Most of those wealthy fat-cats who are US citizens use high-priced lawyers and accountants to create tax-dodges.

So, using taxes as a proxy for anything good is a boner.

Let the Mexicans come in over the boarder to pick our walnuts and avocados, and then send them home immediately thereafter is my best advice.

10 hours ago, nauseus said:

Really? I'd say that the policies and "freedoms" of the EU and several European countries seem to be driving Europe ever closer to civil unrest, with increasing serious crime rates already in once relatively safe cities and towns. Bravo EU.

What Europe needs more of is open-borders.

The African Continent is huge and the population is increasing fast.

This is really the only way to solve the European population crash.

The pressure of mass-migration will increase radically as Earth Surface Temperature continues to rise rapidly.

There is a perfect storm a-brewing.....now.....

It is no wonder that the ME is getting out of hand.

Perfect Storm Ahead....

Warning!

Warning!

1 hour ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Never believe any of the garbage put out by the Cato Institute without doing THOROUGH fact checking using at least three reputable and unbiased sources.

Also, concerning taxes: Well....DUH......

Most of those wealthy fat-cats who are US citizens use high-priced lawyers and accountants to create tax-dodges.

So, using taxes as a proxy for anything good is a boner.

Let the Mexicans come in over the boarder to pick our walnuts and avocados, and then send them home immediately thereafter is my best advice.

Cato Institute was founded by one of the INFAMOUS AND NOTORIOUS KOCH BROTHERS......

So, please do not use Cato Institute as any supporting evidence when arguing some point, or other.

The brothers are GOONS, you know.

7 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

What Europe needs more of is open-borders.

The African Continent is huge and the population is increasing fast.

This is really the only way to solve the European population crash.

The pressure of mass-migration will increase radically as Earth Surface Temperature continues to rise rapidly.

There is a perfect storm a-brewing.....now.....

It is no wonder that the ME is getting out of hand.

Perfect Storm Ahead....

Warning!

Warning!

What we need warnings about are alerts for moronic posts like this.

That would be really stupid, rejoining. You already got spanked for leaving, fine & sentence paid.

Why would anyone want to rejoin, and finance the floundering EU again. UK being one of the only ones contributing, instead of leaching off the EU.

14 hours ago, RayC said:

What policies that originated in Brussels/ Strasbourg have driven Europe closer to civil unrest?

More like the instructions that were issued from Berlin. The freedom of movement pillar was abused when it was converted into a welcome to German entry permit by Mutti Merkel in 2015. The EU didn't say boo and over a million arrived into Germany without proper vetting, resulting in many arrivals not being genuine refugees. This action finally and openly exposed who was truly running the EU (this was confirmed by the many Brexit meetings that seemed to have to occur between just Theresa May and Merkel from 2016-2019, before most elements of the final withdrawal deal were done.

In the meantime, the mass movement of people into Germany caused problems almost immediately (e. g. multiple sex crimes at Cologne station) and, after heavy domestic pressure, and the dispersal of thousands onwards across EU Europe, there were huge increases in violent rape cases by migrants elsewhere, like in Sweden over the next years. This mass movement of people became more like an accepted fashion from then on, aided by slack EU policies, which have enabled and assisted people traffickers to ply their trade too "freely" across Europe, with many of those economic migrants (few real refugees) ending up in northern France or Belgium, waiting for a warm truck or a cold and wet rubber ducky to get them across The Channel.

https://www.heritage.org/immigration/commentary/merkels-leadership-threatened-killings-immigrants-wrought-open-borders?gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=23639558111&gbraid=0AAAAACfelfyPXULLuFMoghNGORKJHSr-x&gclid=CjwKCAjwnZfPBhAGEiwAzg-VzEFhntuINNhwzdGzbWcFDpOFwF9qAz2x8pNBSLWiKialJB795JhJ9RoCQXUQAvD_BwE

Think EU shouldn't consider a UK membership unless UK agrees to cover all the costs of Brexit, as well as some form of Bond to anticipate possible damages of another membership/[50 years]troublemaking/exit cycle.

IMO UK isn't part of Europe, leave it out.

38 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

That would be really stupid, rejoining. You already got spanked for leaving, fine & sentence paid.

Why would anyone want to rejoin, and finance the floundering EU again. UK being one of the only ones contributing, instead of leaching off the EU.

The lefties want us to rejoin because they know it would damage Britain and they hate Britain.

They want to see us subjugated by EU technocrats and footing the bill for basket cases like Greece.

We'd also end up with all the illegal scum that Spain are about to legalise.

15 minutes ago, Peter Crow said:

Think EU shouldn't consider a UK membership unless UK agrees to cover all the costs of Brexit, as well as some form of Bond to anticipate possible damages of another membership/[50 years]troublemaking/exit cycle.

IMO UK isn't part of Europe, leave it out.

That's a good idea.

Such terms would ensure we never rejoined. Not even the nihilistic lefty brit haters would agree to that.

Or actually maybe they would 😃

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

More like the instructions that were issued from Berlin. The freedom of movement pillar was abused when it was converted into a welcome to German entry permit by Mutti Merkel in 2015. The EU didn't say boo and over a million arrived into Germany without proper vetting, resulting in many arrivals not being genuine refugees. This action finally and openly exposed who was truly running the EU (this was confirmed by the many Brexit meetings that seemed to have to occur between just Theresa May and Merkel from 2016-2019, before most elements of the final withdrawal deal were done.

In the meantime, the mass movement of people into Germany caused problems almost immediately (e. g. multiple sex crimes at Cologne station) and, after heavy domestic pressure, and the dispersal of thousands onwards across EU Europe, there were huge increases in violent rape cases by migrants elsewhere, like in Sweden over the next years. This mass movement of people became more like an accepted fashion from then on, aided by slack EU policies, which have enabled and assisted people traffickers to ply their trade too "freely" across Europe, with many of those economic migrants (few real refugees) ending up in northern France or Belgium, waiting for a warm truck or a cold and wet rubber ducky to get them across The Channel.

https://www.heritage.org/immigration/commentary/merkels-leadership-threatened-killings-immigrants-wrought-open-borders?gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=23639558111&gbraid=0AAAAACfelfyPXULLuFMoghNGORKJHSr-x&gclid=CjwKCAjwnZfPBhAGEiwAzg-VzEFhntuINNhwzdGzbWcFDpOFwF9qAz2x8pNBSLWiKialJB795JhJ9RoCQXUQAvD_BwE

So not an EU decision that originated in Brussels or Strasbourg then.

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

The lefties want us to rejoin because they know it would damage Britain and they hate Britain.

They want to see us subjugated by EU technocrats and footing the bill for basket cases like Greece.

We'd also end up with all the illegal scum that Spain are about to legalise.

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

That's a good idea.

Such terms would ensure we never rejoined. Not even the nihilistic lefty brit haters would agree to that.

Or actually maybe they would 😃

I agree with @nauseus about one thing: What we need are alerts for moronic posts like these.

20 hours ago, EastBayRay said:

Bretrayal?

Once that simp starmer has gone I think we can take Britain under our wing again. We still love the brits except that ginger fool

They need to look west to the US not east towards the evil EU

You dope, it was the other way around. Briain was the masters pre 1776.

Not sure what's your problem with Chris Evans though. Probably jealous because of Billy Piper. She was too young for you.

26 minutes ago, RayC said:

So not an EU decision that originated in Brussels or Strasbourg then.

No. I mentioned that already. Berlin. That's where the big decisions are made.

On 4/18/2026 at 8:46 PM, GammaGlobulin said:

The EU is now doomed, and declining.

Why would anyone wish to join a sinking ship?

Norway is nice, though.

Merge the pound with the baht. Pouaht. They might then learn how to pronounce it then.

2 hours ago, JonnyF said:

The lefties want us to rejoin because they know it would damage Britain and they hate Britain.

They want to see us subjugated by EU technocrats and footing the bill for basket cases like Greece.

We'd also end up with all the illegal scum that Spain are about to legalise.

Which "Lefties" is that? Grandpa Corbyn wanted Britain out of the EU for leftist reasons; I would say, because it suited the interests kf his Communist Masters in Moscow. Might as well say that you only wanted Britain to leave the EU because you are an old school Moscow loyalist.

This is your lot, that is.

On the other hand perhaps your statement is utter bullpoo, and people voted across political lines. Unless you have a <deleted> up definition of "Leftist", similar to the utter <deleted> spouted by some of the Americans (and pretend Americans) on this forum who seriously have no idea or experience of what actual Left Wing politics are.

47 minutes ago, nauseus said:

No. I mentioned that already. Berlin. That's where the big decisions are made.

As your know, certain EU legislation requires unanimity to be passed. Where legislation can be passed by qualified majority voting, 55% of member states representing at least 65% of the total EU population is required for the proposal to be passed.

As the EU's most populous and largest economy, Germany obviously has a major input into EU affairs, however to say, "that's where the big decisions are made" is incorrect.

10 minutes ago, RayC said:

As your know, certain EU legislation requires unanimity to be passed. Where legislation can be passed by qualified majority voting, 55% of member states representing at least 65% of the total EU population is required for the proposal to be passed.

As the EU's most populous and largest economy, Germany obviously has a major input into EU affairs, however to say, "that's where the big decisions are made" is incorrect.

If you actually still believe that nonsense, then there's no point in continuing this ten-year argument.

Toodle pip!

4 hours ago, nauseus said:

If you actually still believe that nonsense, then there's no point in continuing this ten-year argument.

Toodle pip!

Why let facts get in the way, eh?

Gluten Abend.