2 minutes ago, bendejo said:

And don't think members of The First Family are any poorer for it.

Modern war is the ultimate act of capitalism, made-to-order you might say.

I'm sure members of the first family are shareholders in war industry stocks. Just as they earn from so much of what they are involved in, they also become richer from this, only those who have to do the math every month become poorer.

1 hour ago, BexMan said:

Happy to debate with you which term I stated is incorrect.

No Debate here. Just state FACTS and move on with your opinion.

2 hours ago, Callmeishmael said:

Completely is a rather sweeping statement. I would be interested in seeing some details of how his statements about the agreement were actually wrong.

Agreed. "Completely",would include dismissing Moody's research as to costs for a start.

2 hours ago, marin said:

Saw this comparison between Obama's deal and now Trumps deal. "wow"!

Under additional costs, you are forgetting whatever charges / service fees the Iranians and Omani will bill for all shipping to pass through the Strait. These are set to start after 60 days.

These will likely be passed on to all of us.

This deal says just no nuclear and no problems in Hurmoz. And the regime can stay there as long as they listen to big western guys. In fact they need the regime for supporting UK fragile economy, and of course Germany and France by doing business with IRGC (big industries under control of IRGC).

I’m not surprised how big Trump words changed to weak and pointless actions.

It’s a shame.

4 minutes ago, phetphet said:

Under additional costs, you are forgetting whatever charges / service fees the Iranians and Omani will bill for all shipping to pass through the Strait. These are set to start after 60 days.

These will likely be passed on to all of us.

I think that will be peanuts compared to what the American tax payers will have to pay !1 America funding a terrorists state

2 hours ago, BexMan said:

$300 billion for rebuilding Iran.

Remember 45th POTUS Trump's proposal to provide $billions for America's failing infrastructure and never even got a bill before Congress to pass the funding (but passed by 46th POTUS Biden). But now he is taking care of Iran, at American taxpayers' expense. MIGA

Make Iran Great Again.

I had posted this earlier on another thread. Below is a summary of the MOU along with a bit of explanation and commentary.

AFAIK nobody has yet to see a confirmed copy of the MOU. The below points are from a readout by a senior White House official who spoke on condition of anonymity under ground rules set by the White House. Quotation marks in the text below come directly from that readout.

Immediate termination of military operations, including Lebanon

60 day deadline to reach a final agreement. Deadline can be extended with joint agreement.

Blockade of Iran ends.

Strait of Hormuz reopens. Free transit for 60 days. After that it is up to Iran and Oman.

"The USA undertakes with regional partners to develop a definitive, mutually agreed plan with at least U.S.D. 300 billion for the reconstruction and economic development of the Islamic Republic of Iran." Per a Trump statement none of this money will come from the USA. Probably a fund set up by the Gulf states.

All Iran sanctions (including UNSC and IAEA sanctions) lifted "in an agreed upon schedule"

Agreement to resolve the disposition of stockpiled, enriched nuclear material. But there's no timeline, no methodology discussed. Lacking details for all the major sticking points. Nothing in the MOU says that Iran has to give up all of its nuclear materials.

US will immediately allow Iran to export oil and US Treasury will issue waivers for shipments, payments, etc.

Iran gets access to its frozen funds. Estimated at USD 24 billion. No restrictions.

Nothing regarding Iran missiles.

There are a lot, a lot, a lot of details to be worked out. It is, after all, a MOU not a final agreement. I don't see how all of this can be resolved within 60 days and with the ending of the blockade of Iran and the immediate lifting of sanctions the US side has given up its most powerful negotiating tools.

Astonishing that Trump signed the MOU 2 days ahead of schedule. The signing was scheduled as a formal signing ceremony on Friday, June 19 in Switzerland. He has departed France and is headed back to US. No White House announcement that he will travel to Switzerland. He want out fast and he is bored with the war. Trump doesn't have mental acuity and ability to maintain focus. Surely that is a major concern that the nation Commander in Chief lack mental sharpness required to serve effectively. Even for Maga supporters, they should care more for the country than for Trump rapidly all-too-obvious mental decline.

2 hours ago, MikeandDow said:

I think that will be peanuts compared to what the American tax payers will have to pay !1 America funding a terrorists state

I would suggest that Americans are funding two terrorist states: the one in the Middle East ruled by an ayatollah, and their own homegrown one. In the course of this war, Iranians killed (13?) Americans and a handful of people in the Arab gulf states. The Americans, on the other hand, killed thousands of Iranian civilians in their unprovoked bombing campaign (including 150+ schoolgirls in a single incident). Who’s the terrorist here? I mean, really?

 

As for all the money Iran will now get (US$300 billion?), I would further suggest that Americans owe them that, to rebuild everything that Americans blew up. You break it, you bought it. They should start by erecting a memorial where the girls’ school used to be.

 

Not many Iranians favor their current regime, who are as feckless and corrupt as Washington or Moscow, and Iran’s aid to terrorist proxies that have harassed Israel (as well as the Arab populations under their own control) for decades now is reprehensible. But Trump’s MoU addresses none of this. As an American, I am more disgusted each day not so much with the Trump administration itself, who have never concealed their intent to lay waste to the US government and US goodwill worldwide, but with the stupidity of those millions of my compatriots who still think he’s some kind of god-man.

Donald J Trump, 25 November 2013: "What a rotten deal we made with Iran. We get nothing (except laughter at our stupidity). They get everything, including delay and big cash!" https://x.com/realDonaldTrump/status/404753582937100288

6 hours ago, BexMan said:

$300 billion for rebuilding Iran.

Has Iran been damaged to the tune of $300 billion ?

I must have missed that news

The backlash will come in November, unless redistricting succeeds.

The problem of people not voting is considerable.

Seeing both parties bickering and backbiting may lead to no real change. I guess independent candidates won't run to help change the status quo. 😔

Iran to get $300 billion. Meanwhile, I'm still waiting for that check for $1776 that Trump promised us this year. I'll bet Iran gets theirs before I get mine.

31 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Has Iran been damaged to the tune of $300 billion ?

I must have missed that news

It is Iran's Art of the Deal.

18 minutes ago, Purdey said:

The backlash will come in November, unless redistricting succeeds.

The problem of people not voting is considerable.

Seeing both parties bickering and backbiting may lead to no real change. I guess independent candidates won't run to help change the status quo. 😔

Voting is not merely a right; it is a responsibility and privilege that each eligible citizen should embrace. even if you do not like the candidate it is your responsibility to vote

Well if the deal (MoU) has now been signed by both leaders - and confirmed by Pakistan PM (as mediator) - and Trump does not appear to be flying back to Europe again today or tomorrow, then the 60 days must have started. Why can't they publish the final text?

A post with an unattributed screen shot has been removed.

Some troll posts have been removed.

8 hours ago, Front Row said:

I had posted this earlier on another thread. Below is a summary of the MOU along with a bit of explanation and commentary.

AFAIK nobody has yet to see a confirmed copy of the MOU. The below points are from a readout by a senior White House official who spoke on condition of anonymity under ground rules set by the White House. Quotation marks in the text below come directly from that readout.

Immediate termination of military operations, including Lebanon

60 day deadline to reach a final agreement. Deadline can be extended with joint agreement.

Blockade of Iran ends.

Strait of Hormuz reopens. Free transit for 60 days. After that it is up to Iran and Oman.

"The USA undertakes with regional partners to develop a definitive, mutually agreed plan with at least U.S.D. 300 billion for the reconstruction and economic development of the Islamic Republic of Iran." Per a Trump statement none of this money will come from the USA. Probably a fund set up by the Gulf states.

All Iran sanctions (including UNSC and IAEA sanctions) lifted "in an agreed upon schedule"

Agreement to resolve the disposition of stockpiled, enriched nuclear material. But there's no timeline, no methodology discussed. Lacking details for all the major sticking points. Nothing in the MOU says that Iran has to give up all of its nuclear materials.

US will immediately allow Iran to export oil and US Treasury will issue waivers for shipments, payments, etc.

Iran gets access to its frozen funds. Estimated at USD 24 billion. No restrictions.

Nothing regarding Iran missiles.

There are a lot, a lot, a lot of details to be worked out. It is, after all, a MOU not a final agreement. I don't see how all of this can be resolved within 60 days and with the ending of the blockade of Iran and the immediate lifting of sanctions the US side has given up its most powerful negotiating tools.

I wonder if the 300 billion will be paid in Trump’s World Liberty Coin. 😆

What was the 1 reason why the Iran has won this war ? The Strait of Hormuz. Unfortunately, the great strategist in the oval office and his defence minister failed to look at the map before. If they would have done so, they would immediately have seen, what tremendeous leverage the Iranians had by controlling the Strait.

The US/the world's position currently: "Let's sighn anything, as long as the strait reopens".

10 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Has Iran been damaged to the tune of $300 billion ?

I must have missed that news

I'm waiting for someone to let slip that Uncle Sam will be peddling arms to Iran, and that's the way the lion's share of that amount will be delivered. No need to press the point that a piece of that bonanza will go into a pocket smeared with orange face paint. Not a far cry from this:

https://www.voanews.com/a/saudi-crown-prince-to-visit-white-house-tuesday/4305355.html

Can't think of anything positive to say about MBS but I give him credit for laughing in DT's face.

8 hours ago, ronnie50 said:

Well if the deal (MoU) has now been signed by both leaders - and confirmed by Pakistan PM (as mediator) - and Trump does not appear to be flying back to Europe again today or tomorrow, then the 60 days must have started. Why can't they publish the final text?

Because it's a bad deal.

6 hours ago, bendejo said:

I'm waiting for someone to let slip that Uncle Sam will be peddling arms to Iran, and that's the way the lion's share of that amount will be delivered. No need to press the point that a piece of that bonanza will go into a pocket smeared with orange face paint. Not a far cry from this:

https://www.voanews.com/a/saudi-crown-prince-to-visit-white-house-tuesday/4305355.html

Can't think of anything positive to say about MBS but I give him credit for laughing in DT's face.

6 hours ago, bendejo said:

I'm waiting for someone to let slip that Uncle Sam will be peddling arms to Iran, and that's the way the lion's share of that amount will be delivered. No need to press the point that a piece of that bonanza will go into a pocket smeared with orange face paint. Not a far cry from this:

https://www.voanews.com/a/saudi-crown-prince-to-visit-white-house-tuesday/4305355.html

Can't think of anything positive to say about MBS but I give him credit for laughing in DT's face.

Trump and his cronies would probably like to bid for all the reconstruction work as well. Though the chance of any US companies getting any of that is next to nil. China might be lucky though.

7 hours ago, bendejo said:

I'm waiting for someone to let slip that Uncle Sam will be peddling arms to Iran

Well, that was quick

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/5928582-trump-defends-iran-missile-arsenal/

Note that The Hill is very much right-wing. Don't swallow the left-radical-trans-Democrat fake news accusations that will probably come out about this over the weekend.

The legacy war hawks now hate him as much as the anti-fascists do. Even Lindsey Graham is dodging Fox.

Trump has given the middle east to china !! dont think the rest of the world will be to happy about this !!