On 6/20/2026 at 7:59 AM, FolkGuitar said:

About 15 years ago, Thaksin changed the visa rules and made it difficult for backpack travelers to stay in the Kingdom for more than 14 days without another visa run. At the same time, Vietnam was quickly building up its backpacker guest houses, resorts, and beach sites, attracting the backpackers with easy immigration rules and low costs. This cost Thailand dozens of closed and shuttered guesthouses everywhere. More and more backpack tourist changed their destinations, and headed for Nam.

(Some people think it's good to get rid of backpackers, but they actually bring a LOT of income into Thailand because they stay longer and do more activities than the package tour tourists. It's the backpack tourists who eat in the Mom&Pop noodle shops, buy T-shirts and circus pants from the local stores rather than from the big shopping malls, and take the classes [yoga, jewelry making, massage, cooking, etc.] that most package tours don't, bringing more income to locals.

Now Thailand is building big hotels as if the more they build, the richer tourists will come. And more and more of them are sitting deserted, half-built shells quickly being taken over by jungle vines. I can think of three of them within 5k of my house.
Tourists don't come to Thailand for the hotels. They come to Thailand for the rich and diverse cultural activities, the relaxed beaches, and the interesting cities with their nightlife and sightseeing.

What we seem to be left with is the TAT telling us that tourism is improving, the Hotel industry telling us that they are having trouble filling even 50% of their rooms with the richer package tourists, and the Guest Houses sitting empty. A drive through the back sois inside the Old City in Chiang Mai is on empty streets. Only a few individuals are walking around. Looking at empty tables at outdoor restaurants completes the story.
High Season will still see an increase, but will it ever be as it was before the Pandemic?

(Some people think it's good to get rid of backpackers, but they actually bring a LOT of income into Thailand because they stay longer and do more activities than the package tour tourists

Backpackers are a plague if you want to improve quality. And the few Baht spending at the market or 7/11 you can't address as SPENDING. Wealthy tourists don't want to be forced to mingle with filthy backpackers.

1 hour ago, Scouse123 said:

I have always thought an eclectic mix was the most successful blend for tourism, encompassing all people and budgets.

Nothing wrong with that either. Many backpackers who move up financially return to the countries where they had good experiences.

31 minutes ago, D Peter said:

(Some people think it's good to get rid of backpackers, but they actually bring a LOT of income into Thailand because they stay longer and do more activities than the package tour tourists

Backpackers are a plague if you want to improve quality. And the few Baht spending at the market or 7/11 you can't address as SPENDING. Wealthy tourists don't want to be forced to mingle with filthy backpackers.

Can you back up your claim that the backpackers bring a lot of income into Thailand? Their spending activity does not support that conclusion. The rule of thumb for a backpacker is 2,000 baht/day. 30 days = 60,000 baht. Compare that to the typical punter staying at a 4* hotel like Hyatt or Marriott who stays 7 days. and spends at least 10,000 baht/day. 70-100,000 baht for a week.

And so what if a backpacker stays longer? Do you think that the hotels just rent a room for 7 days a month? The higher end hotels are near capacity in high season.

Some of the most profitable types of visitors are

• Short term golf packages (Japan, South Korea, China and Australia/New Zealand). They come for a few days, stay in decent hotels, spend on dinners, vehicles and/or drivers, green fees & caddies.

• Medical service contracts: The kidney, cardiac and endocrinology specialty clinics took a big hit when air service to the Gulf states was interrupted.

• Nordic "snowbirds": One of the most profitable demographics, especially the seniors. They leave a small environmental costs, are well behaved, and spend on higher end goods and services.

• Regional meeting and convention attendees

• Visitors who stay at premium hotel brands

On 6/20/2026 at 9:18 AM, Keeenok Powell said:

Went back last year and was so disappointed with all the development .

You're not wrong, Phu Quoc is full to the brim of cheap fake facaded imitation European style developments, purely aimed at the Chinese market; who have absolutely no idea about authenticity. Street shows, acrobats and dancers amuse the giddy Chinese tourists with pseudo cultural entertainment....Not for me, I wish I had been there 20 years ago.................overall on the fakeness scale, 8 outa 10, just a tad under Dubai..............

2 hours ago, Woke to Sounds said:

Thailand needs to offer a 6-mo 'snowbird' visa, multi-entry, applied for beforehand and non-extendable.

More farang from colder climes are choosing to do 6-month splits between home country and Se Asia rather than living full time in Se Asia.

Thailand could charge a decent (but fair) price for this visa and attract some of those going to VNam simply because it's less hassle to stay longer.

Didn't Thailand used to have a multiple entry 6 month visa..?....could swear I had a couple of those, or am I imagining it..........?

3 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

The actual economic data does not support you glorification of backpackers and their impact upon the economy. Can you cite any reputable economic sources for your claim or are your relying on imagined data?

I too would be very interested to see any up to date data on the different demographics, different countries and their spending/duration of stay etc.......... can anyone point me in the right direction for some half reliable data..?

2 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

I have always thought an eclectic mix was the most successful blend for tourism, encompassing all people and budgets.

It is. Thailand needs an eclectic mix of tourists because it is not Monaco. Thailand has a huge tourist industry with a huge, eclectic mix of tourist accommodations--from cheap hostels to expensive 5-star resorts. Thailand will always need a diverse tourist mix to fill these diverse rooms--no matter what this or that tourist spokesman is spouting this week or next.

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The same old lame excuses blame Covid and the decline of the Chinese. What have TAT or Tourism ministers done to Encourage visitors ? They make it more difficult for you to stay longer with there Visa Regulations, European markets seeing headlines such as free exended visas for Indians, Russians, Chinese etc, there policy of lost Tourism is a signal to increase prices across the board. Our safety is unimportant and is ignored in high tourist areas such as Pattaya, Phuket, and Samui particulary Koh Tau or Death Island as its come to be known. We then see Monthly TAT fudging tourist numbers when we know its fabricating the numbers, in there mindset they think we believe them so they carry on spreading propaganda. Then we have there new PM only a few years ago he told us we were dirty unwashed and smelly tourists and we dont want you, sadly Mud Sticks. In short you cannot blame anyone for your loss you were warned Pre-Covid to change or you will suffer the Consequence's you ignored it all so now you have to live with the seeds you sowed.

1 hour ago, Patong2021 said:

Can you back up your claim that the backpackers bring a lot of income into Thailand? Their spending activity does not support that conclusion. The rule of thumb for a backpacker is 2,000 baht/day. 30 days = 60,000 baht. Compare that to the typical punter staying at a 4* hotel like Hyatt or Marriott who stays 7 days. and spends at least 10,000 baht/day. 70-100,000 baht for a week.

And so what if a backpacker stays longer? Do you think that the hotels just rent a room for 7 days a month? The higher end hotels are near capacity in high season.

Some of the most profitable types of visitors are

• Short term golf packages (Japan, South Korea, China and Australia/New Zealand). They come for a few days, stay in decent hotels, spend on dinners, vehicles and/or drivers, green fees & caddies.

• Medical service contracts: The kidney, cardiac and endocrinology specialty clinics took a big hit when air service to the Gulf states was interrupted.

• Nordic "snowbirds": One of the most profitable demographics, especially the seniors. They leave a small environmental costs, are well behaved, and spend on higher end goods and services.

• Regional meeting and convention attendees

• Visitors who stay at premium hotel brands

Apparently you got me wrong.

I only wrote:

Backpackers are a plague if you want to improve quality. And the few Baht spending at the market or 7/11 you can't address as SPENDING. Wealthy tourists don't want to be forced to mingle with filthy backpackers.

That implements that wealthy tourist spends a lot more than a backpacker.

I went to Da Nang each of the last 3 years, same time of year too. This year it was super crowded, mostly by Chinese and South Korean tourists. They acted like they own the city in I could see the Vietnamese visibly annoyed for the first time ever.

I stayed there 3 weeks but I'm not going to go back until they start restricting tourists, it was that bad.

On 6/20/2026 at 6:34 AM, Pesche said:

"...and ongoing debate about prioritising quality over quantity in tourism."

Shouldn't it rather be "prioritising quantity over quality in tourism" following the Visa-Free incentive?!

Opposite to Vietnam, Thailand does not aim at all for long stay tourism!

On the contrary, Immigration red-tape & regulations are ridiculous and make it more difficult (i.e. for retirees) to enjoy a long term stay.

Still the old mentality:

"Welcome to Thailand, come to party and shopping (spend all your money) and go home!"

I have lived in Thailand for more than 16 years without experiencing any ridiculous red tape or regulations , I know many expats in the same situation some who have lived here in excess of twenty years and longer.

6 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

The actual economic data does not support you glorification of backpackers and their impact upon the economy. Can you cite any reputable economic sources for your claim or are your relying on imagined data? The backpackers offer little financial benefit to the overall economy which is why Vietnam has moved to quality hospitality facilities. Da Nang illustrates that with its bulldozing of the cheap hostels and building of affordable 3* and 4* hotels. A 10 storey hotel that occupies the space of a budget hostel and a few noodle shops employs more people at higher wages. It generates the tax revenue that the local government uses to pay for the road and sewage improvements. It also pays for the schools and health services. The guests of these hotels will spend much more on local goods and services than the backpackers.

You don't understand the economics you have no evidence, youreself, you are just sealioning

2 hours ago, Furioso said:

I went to Da Nang each of the last 3 years, same time of year too. This year it was super crowded, mostly by Chinese and South Korean tourists. They acted like they own the city in I could see the Vietnamese visibly annoyed for the first time ever.

I stayed there 3 weeks but I'm not going to go back until they start restricting tourists, it was that bad.

Very similar to your situation in Da Nang.I been a few times,again last august. Never again,the noise beep beep all day and night did my head in. No traffic rules as such. Golf is good ,but the rest of it,nah. I will go back to Thaialdn from now on.

39 minutes ago, StevieAus said:

I have lived in Thailand for more than 16 years without experiencing any ridiculous red tape or regulations , I know many expats in the same situation some who have lived here in excess of twenty years and longer.

I worked in Thailand for over 20 years an found the government regulation and working rights to be sadly lacking

seems that most of the comments here are not based on any real evidence but more a middle-aged expat-centric perspective.

8 hours ago, kwilco said:

You don't understand the economics you have no evidence, youreself, you are just sealioning

Work through the math?

A multi floor mid market hotel employs many people from desk clerks, to maintenance, to kitchen staff, to chambermaids etc. It will charge 3,000-5,000 baht/night. The Thai hotel occupancy for this segment is no less than 65% annually. Backpacker facilities have lower occupancy rates (closer to 50%) and hold fewer people, and may employ 3-5 people if large enough. The hotel visitor will be consuming goods and services of higher value than the hostel backpacker visitor. Both types of visitors incur civil infrastructure costs for electricity, transport, sewage public security etc. However, the non backpacker visitor is generating greater tax revenues with which to pay for the similar use of public services.

\You are making the claim that backpackers are a profitable and important tourist segment. Fine. It is up to you to back it up with the economic data. You cannot because there is nothing to support the claim.

2 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

Work through the math?

A multi floor mid market hotel employs many people from desk clerks, to maintenance, to kitchen staff, to chambermaids etc. It will charge 3,000-5,000 baht/night. The Thai hotel occupancy for this segment is no less than 65% annually. Backpacker facilities have lower occupancy rates (closer to 50%) and hold fewer people, and may employ 3-5 people if large enough. The hotel visitor will be consuming goods and services of higher value than the hostel backpacker visitor. Both types of visitors incur civil infrastructure costs for electricity, transport, sewage public security etc. However, the non backpacker visitor is generating greater tax revenues with which to pay for the similar use of public services.

\You are making the claim that backpackers are a profitable and important tourist segment. Fine. It is up to you to back it up with the economic data. You cannot because there is nothing to support the claim.

No, it isn't. You are now sealioning

12 hours ago, kwilco said:

I worked in Thailand for over 20 years an found the government regulation and working rights to be sadly lacking

So, you weren't a tourist here, which is the subject of this thread.

Thanks for trying out.

The primary statistic in the OP is a surge in the number of Chinese tourist arrivals in Vietnam. It's the only metric offered.

Then follows 3 pages of nostalgia about visas, Thaksin, backpackers, snowbirds, etc. A fair bit of this irrelevant comment is coming from members who lambast the Chinese tourist in Thailand and pillory the Thai government for trying to boost their numbers.

17 hours ago, Off Piste said:

Didn't Thailand used to have a multiple entry 6 month visa..?....could swear I had a couple of those, or am I imagining it..........?

And they still do. Its called a multi-entry tourist visa (METV), which is good for a maximum of 180 days, but you only get 60 days when you arrive, then either have to leave the country then come back to activate the next 60 days, or extend for 30 days, then leave the country and come back to activate the next 60 days. Having to leave the country is actually encouraging people to spend time in other nearby countries like Vietnam.

On 6/20/2026 at 6:57 PM, Scouse123 said:

Vietnam doesn't do the flip-flopping that Thailand does, it sets policies and sticks to them.

Not hard to do in a communist country.

20 hours ago, D Peter said:

(Some people think it's good to get rid of backpackers, but they actually bring a LOT of income into Thailand because they stay longer and do more activities than the package tour tourists

Backpackers are a plague if you want to improve quality. And the few Baht spending at the market or 7/11 you can't address as SPENDING. Wealthy tourists don't want to be forced to mingle with filthy backpackers.

Those guys are a nuisance, all that luggage and bumpibg their packs into you at luggage reclaim.

20% increase tourist numbers for year! With compound interest formula:21million(1+.2)^3=36million. In three years

2 hours ago, emptypockets said:

Not hard to do in a communist country.

You are right, but at least we all know where we stand one week to the next.

I don't think Thailand should be considered down for the count just yet. It still has lots to attract both wealthy and low-budget tourists. Bangkok is one of the most popular tourist cities in the world. It has many 5 star hotels, one of the most vibrant, glittering, shopping experiences, and has a few very popular Buddhist temples and other cultural venues to visit. There are many islands and beaches that have not yet been ruined by overdevelopment. But it still needs the low budget tourists. They drive a billion dollar accommodation, food and beverage sector, and entertainment industry. Does it matter if you have 1,000 tourists spending 900 baht per night but only 200 spending 5,000 baht per night? It works out roughly the same, but the higher number of low end tourists are eating in small Thai restaurants or on the street eating noodles, etc. They provide a livelihood for millions of Thai families. So in summary, the well off tourists that come to Thailand and stay and eat in the hotels owned by the oligarchs make the latter richer. The low end tourists provide an income for millions of smaller players. Thailand will always need both groups.

On 6/20/2026 at 9:43 AM, ronnie50 said:

I love Vietnam. The one thing I did notice is it's a bit of a pain for money exchange. You can do it at the airport but rates not so good. In Da Nang, the banks were hit and miss. Some would exchange, some would not. Gold shops are recommended but it seems a bit disorganized and dodgy.

On 6/20/2026 at 9:43 AM, ronnie50 said:

I love Vietnam. The one thing I did notice is it's a bit of a pain for money exchange. You can do it at the airport but rates not so good. In Da Nang, the banks were hit and miss. Some would exchange, some would not. Gold shops are recommended but it seems a bit disorganized and dodgy.

I totally agree with this statement. Different Atms allow different amount s you can withdraw and charge different fees. However I would recommend downloading the app ATM fee saver as it will give the amounts different charge and indicate where the best are located. Some are free in Vietnam unlike Thailand where every bank will rip you off, about 5 quid at the moment I believe then your Uk bank will take a chunk too.

8 minutes ago, LittleBear57 said:

I totally agree with this statement. Different Atms allow different amount s you can withdraw and charge different fees. However I would recommend downloading the app ATM fee saver as it will give the amounts different charge and indicate where the best are located. Some are free in Vietnam unlike Thailand where every bank will rip you off, about 5 quid at the moment I believe then your Uk bank will take a chunk too.

Better to take USD cash and exchange. Use VN Dong as much as possible. Maybe CC for hotels or expensive meals. Be careful with Dong as the 10,000 and 100,000 look very similar. There was an old scam where the waiter would pick up the tab from the table and return a moment later claiming you gave a 10,000 Dong note instead of 100,000.

On 6/19/2026 at 11:59 PM, Sir Dude said:

It's inevitable that Vietnam will surpass Thailand in most areas and it can be boiled down to the general attitude of the people... Thais are nowhere near as focused and determined to succeed like the Viets are.

This is one thing you immediately notice upon arrival in Vietnam, coming from Thailand: These people have a drive. They are not laid back at all.

On 6/20/2026 at 8:50 PM, Off Piste said:

You're not wrong, Phu Quoc is full to the brim of cheap fake facaded imitation European style developments, purely aimed at the Chinese market; who have absolutely no idea about authenticity.

Even 10 yrs ago Phu Quoc had aspirations to be like this, unfortunately.

Not worth a trip for me now despite the excellent pepper, landscapes/views and island airport.