8 minutes ago, 3NUMBAS said:

theres a plumber in london who drives around in a new RR ,cash in hand no tax paid?

Small businesses account for the single largest portion of unpaid taxes within the UK’s £59 Billion tax gap.

“the tax gap from small businesses is the largest component of the tax gap by customer group with a 62% share in 2024 to 2025”

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/measuring-tax-gaps/1-tax-gaps-summary

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Small businesses account for the single largest portion of unpaid taxes within the UK’s £59 Billion tax gap.

“the tax gap from small businesses is the largest component of the tax gap by customer group with a 62% share in 2024 to 2025”

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/measuring-tax-gaps/1-tax-gaps-summary

Which is an interesting statistic, but since most tradesmen - and they are still mostly men - are self-employed, in no small measure because of the compliance burden associated with running an incorporated entity (not just tax but all the other admin and legal obligations) that the relevant statistic from that link is:

• the tax gap from small businesses is the largest component of the tax gap by customer group with a 62% share in 2024 to 2025; the tax gap from individuals makes up the lowest proportion of the tax gap at 4% in 2024 to 2025

And HMRC are now burdening the self-employed with the new 'Making Tax Digital' filing requirements to make sure they bring that 4% down even lower.

On 7/16/2026 at 11:41 AM, ronnie50 said:

Wot, this teacher's a right geezer, in'it. A regular jack-the-lad. A bit ov dis a bit of dat. Coo, he's right though in'it. We best quit school now and sell drugs on the corner in our hoodies. Oi, I'd make more dosh than me alcoholic ol' man!

Seriously though. Why on earth - as a teacher of all things - would you tell kids to drop out? You mean no white working class kids can become lawyers, doctors, accountants, engineers? In a country with virtually free Uni?

The UK hasn't had "virtually free Uni" for decades.

It's become a money-making business; most domestic graduates end up with a degree (often of dubious real value/quality) and a millstone of interest-acrueing student debt that many will never repay.

1 hour ago, 3NUMBAS said:

theres a plumber in london who drives around in a new RR ,cash in hand no tax paid?

My friend said he had that problem - enormous cash flow and he didn't have to report anywhere near the total if he didn't want to.

19 hours ago, Tourist2 said:

What a load of <deleted>.
How do you believe Brexit "destroyed income [specifically] in English coastal towns"?
French, Italians and Spanish are still able to visit the likes of Blackpool if they really want to.

Also, ever wondered why white (working class) kids are failing?
Could it be the amount of resources dedicated to ensure multiple language support and DEI/DIE eQuAL oUtcoMes for kids who arrive at various ages from low IQ 3rd world <deleted> hole countries?
Could that (2 tier schooling) have something to do with it?

Maybe actually visit England - for many government services you can select the langusuge you'd like to converse with the yookay state in so u could bring your wife and her kids from the previous - they'd be treated better than the white kids from your yookay divorce.

You do know coastal towns are near the sea?

On 7/16/2026 at 5:28 PM, bannork said:

Better to become a plumber, loads of money.

So true... and you only have to know two things, "Payday's on Thursday and <deleted> don't flow uphill."

6 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Take that up with the fathers who dumped their kids.

Are these fathers obligated to pay child support?

4 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Small businesses account for the single largest portion of unpaid taxes within the UK’s £59 Billion tax gap.

“the tax gap from small businesses is the largest component of the tax gap by customer group with a 62% share in 2024 to 2025”

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/measuring-tax-gaps/1-tax-gaps-summary

The higher the taxes, the lower the tax compliance. There is a lesson to be learned here.

14 hours ago, bannork said:

No time to reply today, CH, but hazarding a guess, I would say middle class kids from white single parent families would fare better than white working class kids, they go to better schools and parents have higher expectations.

Regarding immigrant children, Afro Carribbean families have highest number of single parent families ( guessing here!).

Will get back to you on Monday about this.

15 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

So do white working class kids from single parent families fair worse in school than white middle class kids from single parent families?

Do they fair worse than immigrant kids from single parent families?

Yes, educational research and major government inquiries—such as the UK Parliament's Education Committee report—consistently show that white working-class students from single-parent families typically underperform both their white middle-class peers and, on average, immigrant children from similar single-parent backgrounds.

White Working Class vs. White Middle Class
White working-class children consistently score lower across all educational metrics (like GCSE results and early development milestones) than their white middle-class peers. This gap is significantly compounded by living in a single-parent household, which often entails reduced economic resources, fewer educational materials, and less time for parental supervision.

White Working Class vs. Immigrant Children
White working-class students from single-parent families frequently fare worse educationally than immigrant children from the same family structures.

• Cultural Capital and Expectations: Many immigrant families demonstrate higher educational aspirations, stronger homework enforcement, and a culture that places premium value on academic credentials for upward social mobility.

• Extended Support Networks: Immigrant and ethnic minority households are statistically more likely to have extended family networks nearby (e.g., grandparents, aunts, or uncles) that assist with childcare, finances, and emotional support, compensating for the absence of a second parent.

• Community Cohesion: Minority and immigrant communities often have well-established supplemental schooling, tutoring, and localized support systems that help insulate children academically from the impacts of family breakdown.

do white working class kids from single parent families fair worse in school than white middle class kids from single parent families? Do they fair worse than immigrant kids from single parent families? - Google Search

So according to the above, immigrant communities in the UK have considerable back-up- not only for single parent families of course, with extended families plus extra learning supporting students, rien piset as Thais say. Plus stronger aspirations.

Edited July 19Jul 19 by bannork

12 hours ago, Fact said:

The higher the taxes, the lower the tax compliance. There is a lesson to be learned here.

Or it might just be incorporating a Ltd company is a handy way to evade taxes.

3 hours ago, bannork said:

Yes, educational research and major government inquiries—such as the UK Parliament's Education Committee report—consistently show that white working-class students from single-parent families typically underperform both their white middle-class peers and, on average, immigrant children from similar single-parent backgrounds.

White Working Class vs. White Middle Class
White working-class children consistently score lower across all educational metrics (like GCSE results and early development milestones) than their white middle-class peers. This gap is significantly compounded by living in a single-parent household, which often entails reduced economic resources, fewer educational materials, and less time for parental supervision.

White Working Class vs. Immigrant Children
White working-class students from single-parent families frequently fare worse educationally than immigrant children from the same family structures.

• Cultural Capital and Expectations: Many immigrant families demonstrate higher educational aspirations, stronger homework enforcement, and a culture that places premium value on academic credentials for upward social mobility.

• Extended Support Networks: Immigrant and ethnic minority households are statistically more likely to have extended family networks nearby (e.g., grandparents, aunts, or uncles) that assist with childcare, finances, and emotional support, compensating for the absence of a second parent.

• Community Cohesion: Minority and immigrant communities often have well-established supplemental schooling, tutoring, and localized support systems that help insulate children academically from the impacts of family breakdown.

do white working class kids from single parent families fair worse in school than white middle class kids from single parent families? Do they fair worse than immigrant kids from single parent families? - Google Search

So according to the above, immigrant communities in the UK have considerable back-up- not only for single parent families of course, with extended families plus extra learning supporting students, rien piset as Thais say. Plus stronger aspirations.

So clearly when the variable of ‘single parent families ‘ is removed there is something failing in white working class culture wrt to education.

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

So clearly when the variable of ‘single parent families ‘ is removed there is something failing in white working class culture wrt to education.

The UK’s lackluster economy is letting down the lower-income class. 

On 7/16/2026 at 5:28 PM, bannork said:

Better to become a plumber, loads of money.

Yes, same in the US today, college educated usually spend the rest of their life trying to pay off the school loans while trades schoolers can have a job for life IMHO based on the people I know in the US today.

8 minutes ago, temuFarang said:

The UK’s lackluster economy is letting down the lower-income class. 

I would argue to things, the destruction of working class culture instigated by Thatcher (recall the insistence that there is no class system) and the structural rigging of the economy against the working class.

The outcome of the destruction of working class culture has predictably turned out to be exactly the same as the destruction of other cultures around the world.

I recommend E. P. Thompson, The Making of the English Working Class, to get an understanding of precisely what has been lost.

21 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I would argue to things, the destruction of working class culture instigated by Thatcher (recall the insistence that there is no class system) and the structural rigging of the economy against the working class.

The outcome of the destruction of working class culture has predictably turned out to be exactly the same as the destruction of other cultures around the world.

I recommend E. P. Thompson, The Making of the English Working Class, to get an understanding of precisely what has been lost.

It's more like the decline of the industrial base that began between the 1960’s and 1970s.

21 minutes ago, temuFarang said:

It's more like the decline of the industrial base that began between the 1960’s and 1970s.

Thatcher came to power in 1979, declaring society is dead and Britain will be a post industrial economy.

She then set about killing society and destroying manufacturing industries.

The working class were told to ‘get in their bikes’ to find jobs that were wiped out.

Working class communities gutted and working class culture destoyed.

Independent readers have been sharing strong views on what is holding back white working-class pupils, with many drawing on their own experiences of education, parenting and teaching in the classroom.

Many readers argued the biggest influence isn’t schools but parents, pointing to family aspirations, attitudes towards education and support in the early years.

Others felt the education system is too focused on academic achievement, calling for greater investment in apprenticeships and further education.

Some also argued schools are built around middle-class ideas of success that don’t reflect every community, while others said poverty and a lack of trust in institutions remain key barriers.

Here’s what readers had to say:

School reflects middle-class values

There is a big mismatch between working-class values and middle-class values. Schools run on middle-class values – based on individual achievement, moderate self-expression, and conceptual and analytical thinking. Experts have shown that middle-class kids have a significant advantage because school feels like an extension of home. For working class kids, they have to learn the new ways of thinking and behaving before they can get to grips with actual ‘learning’.

RichT

Valuing trades as well as academia

I teach at university, but it has always amazed me that there is no comparable route for people wanting to become qualified in trades. It is an enduring class prejudice that regards “academic” achievements as more significant and refined than skill or craft accomplishment, and those who achieve them as more intelligent.

Elizabethz

The children of migrants are not necessarily disadvantaged

The children of migrants are not necessarily disadvantaged. They often have an extended family (including uncles and aunts) helping financially. This is not usually the case with working-class families.

Furthermore, the middle-class teachers at university go out of their way to help immigrant students, and there are often scholarships. Again, this is often not the case for working-class students.

User101

Modern British people are spoiled

Modern British people are spoiled and never had to emigrate just to survive. They get free schooling, healthcare and benefits. In other countries they get nothing; only sheer effort and sacrifice will allow them to survive. Obviously they don't want their kids to go through the same pain.

Cat

The decline of adult education

There's another factor that rarely features in these discussions – namely, the almost total absence of adult education provision, both vocational and non-vocational, in so many communities. In the past, organisations like the WEA and adult residential colleges like Fircroft and Coleg Harlech offered working-class people education in a variety of subjects.

Sometimes these were the route to better jobs, but often they simply satisfied a desire for knowledge about different aspects of the world – surely important for the citizens of any society that claims to be a democracy.

Such things have partially been overtaken by provision through organisations such as the Open University and by the increased numbers of students on full-time university courses, but working-class people have often not been the beneficiaries of this. Maybe we need a national conversation on what education should be for, and also on what form it should take.

jad

My father always emphasised education

It's not the schools or the kids; it's the useless parents.

Aspiration within the family matters more than anything. I grew up in a family of five kids on a council estate, and there was one thing my father, a factory worker, always emphasised: education. It worked.

Frankie

Sure Start and austerity

The right have already been on about this, and will see this report as a vindication of their criticism of woke anti-white bias. But in my area (a predominantly white seaside town containing several wards with some of the highest levels of deprivation), the Blair government set up Sure Start centres, which are generally accepted to have had significant benefits for the children who had access to them. And the scheme was massively curtailed by the Tory austerity of the 2010s. So remember that when Kemi and Nige kick off.

AdamDelver

It’s all about family support

After a lifetime involved in education, starting from a council estate in Billingham, I have seen how working-class white families with a positive attitude towards education have encouraged their children to succeed. Their future generations have then become ‘middle-class’. The families left behind don't do as well.

The schools they attend have problems with discipline, as they have far too many problem families compared to others.

It's not so much to do with race or socio-economic group, but family and peer group support. The better the family and peer group support in a school, the easier it is for the teachers in that school to make it successful.

The answer is resources at an early age, put into those primary schools to work with families.

Pete

Children need support, not just facts

Children are children. They should be allowed to be children. At a young age, the system should support them to find out what they are interested in, and teach them how to learn and socialise, not just facts and figures. As they grow, they require parents who will support them in their interests and gently encourage them to learn more.

Our modern society has games consoles, mobile phones and social media, 24-hour TV and the internet for children to navigate. Children will always be more successful if their parents see the value in learning and pass that on to their children. Poverty can affect children, but so can parental attitude. Do parents still read to their children and do puzzles, quizzes and play games? Or do they get thrown an iPad and left to their own devices?

I used to work with children who were at risk of being removed from the school system. Many were good kids who had attention problems or poor sleep from late nights on games consoles. Some were bullied, and some had parents who didn't care about the education system. With attention and a bit of relationship building, these kids were great and the problems usually came out.

Silvafox

Disadvantaged pupils can coast

As someone who works in a school, I can also confirm that the white working-class children who are not on benefits (i.e. not disadvantaged pupil premium children who unlock additional government funding to improve educational outcomes) do get ignored.

The school pushes the high achievers and also offers intervention for pupil premium children regardless of their grades. But unless you are a financial asset to the school, they will just let pupils coast and not really care if they get a 2 or a 3.

VShelly

Parents’ aspirations make the difference

Aspiration and encouragement from parents are the key.

Immigrant families usually have great aspirations for their children. They want their kids to do well in that new country. This is what built America, after all.

But very often, white working-class parents lack ambition for their children. Worse, they sometimes work against the school system.

As a teacher, I was told many times, ‘I don't want my kid to be better than me. If it was good enough for me, it is good enough for him...’ As a European immigrant, I was shocked by such outbursts. These parents were actually actively working against me.

It seems nothing has changed.

morganedebroceliande

Trust, aspiration and role models

The parents of these kids have developed a total and severe loss of trust in government and the education system. When you look at the demographics of the parents of those who are failing, no doubt you'll see the average right-wing Reform set on one side, and the disenfranchised, poorly educated ne'er-do-wells who feel let down on the other. The kids then get bombarded with their narrative, so can't see any point in school.

Throw in the idea of the ‘me’ generation, who have their indulgences sated by impoverished parents, and ‘influencers’, who appear to live a life of luxury that those kids aspire to without having to get an education, then what's the point of school? And let's not forget the gangs of thieves and drug dealers wearing black hoodies, sportswear and balaclavas, riding around on e-bikes nicking people's phones. There are other ways of getting what you want without having to study.

As for the kids of first- or second-generation immigrant families, they have an attitude of determination to succeed against the odds, and without the privilege of whiteness or Englishness. Had they not come to the UK, they would have had to pay for the quality of education they get for free, then found getting work next to impossible. Of course they're going to take the fullest advantage of what's on offer. They trust it and can see how it benefits them without having to resort to fantasies or crime.

Tabbers

Voices: 'It's not the schools': Readers on working-class pupils falling behind