Just now, KhunHeineken said:

I have noted that, however, is that a guarantee they will grandfather in the future?

No. But there is no guarantee they are going to change it either. but on these ministerial orders they tend to keep the same structure,

Edited 10 hours ago10 hr by JerryM

The girls are making it harder for me on TF now. The proliferation of freelancers means it's almost impossible to spot real harem potential anymore. And when they do reply they disappear after five exchanges. I'm sure it was a lot easier 40 years ago.

Plus the allowance fees keep going up.

Just now, ravip said:

When you say "it could knock those on meager western aged pensions out of the game here" how much per month are you referring to, aproximately?

No idea. It's up to the Thai government.

Like I said, there could be a small increase, just to keep pace with the higher cost of living, and this would be understandable, as it's been 800k baht for decades, or a significant increase to clear out poorer retirees and raise the standards in wealth of future retirees.

The only thing I am sure of, and it would be difficult to argue against, is the 800k can not stay 800k forever. At some stage it will rise. The amount, and why that amount, and any grandfathering, remain unknown, and open to discussion.

Thai people/officials/Government Xenophobic?

These are often accusations made by some foreigners who are unable to meet the visa requirements, or whose own attitudes may come across as arrogant or prejudiced.

3 minutes ago, JerryM said:

No. But there is no guarantee they are going to change it either. but on these ministerial orders they tend to keep the same structure,

The 800k baht surely will change in the future. The purchasing power of that 800k has decreased significantly over the years, as money has in every other country.

They may keep the same structure, or may make some major tweaks.

Expats should be prepared for both. Thailand is not a stable country.

6 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Many pensioners struggle, or can no longer afford to live in their home country. This has become a western country issue. As I said, does Thailand really want to be a dumping ground for these people, from all around the world?

Thailand doesn't care what the price of eggs is in your country and if you can afford them.

Just by being here, you are supporting the economy.

But if you rack up a huge hospital bill that you can't pay, you may have problems.

They have you here on renewable visas. The dealer always wins.

16 hours ago, Jingthing said:

But I didn't know how it would feel 20 years later to have invested so much in Thailand and offered nothing in return as far as any increased status.

Please elaborate "increased status".

Before Thailand you "invested" how much and received What in return?

If Thailand's Quality of Life, Affordability, modern infrastructure, healthcare, availability of companionship, and some of the Best people I've met in my travels (Thai People) is Not Enough. (Bounce, move somewhere else). When you start whinnying about how imperfect the next place is also you will come to realize the problem.

It's You. If you can't mentally adjust, adapt, open up and let people in then you will Always Struggle with feeling welcome somewhere.

My Advice, learn more about Thai Culture, weigh if you can learn to accept Thailand and make your decision.

3 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

The only thing I am sure of, and it would be difficult to argue against, is the 800k can not stay 800k forever.

Then, as KuhnLA referenced above, there is a significant portion who do not bother with the 800K or 65K/month at all.

Edited 10 hours ago10 hr by JerryM

2 minutes ago, J Branche said:

If Thailand's Quality of Life, Affordability

It's only "affordable" if you stay single and avoid medical emergencies and eat street food all the time.

That's the scam of the century ... being sold as an affordable low cost of living paradise.

It's as expensive as back home when all is factored in, maybe even more.

And then you decide if the quality of life is worth it, but without the rose-colored glasses of it being a cheap paradise.

Which keeps getting perpetuated by Youtubers trying to make a buck and even on forums.

5 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

The 800k baht surely will change in the future. The purchasing power of that 800k has decreased significantly over the years, as money has in every other country.

They may keep the same structure, or may make some major tweaks.

Expats should be prepared for both. Thailand is not a stable country.

Mr doom and gloom. I have lived here for 38 years and its been fine and stable. First came as a tourist in 1977, its been fine and stable since then. Totally disagree with your posts. The wife and I have invested here over the years and feel comfortable for the long term. Nobody is out to get us, that is for sure.

14 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

Some countries grant permanent residency if you buy property or get married or live more than 10 years, etc ..

No argument from me on that one. Thailand does not offer any reasonable pathway to PR or citizenship, but I was focusing on the retirement visa.

15 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

If not xenophobia, the other explanation may be supply and demand.

They do not want foreigners to have rights here. That's why that 1 year retirement visa / extension is nothing more than a 12 month tourist visa.

16 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

Thailand may be a more favorable destination than many other countries , and obviously a lot of people are still willing to retire here without some of the benefits that other countries offer.

They may, on purpose, price out a certain demographic of expat, whom for which, Cambodia awaits.

One must remember, why did they chose the figure of 800k baht so many years ago? Why will they chose a certain figure in the future. Any such figure MAY be chosen as part of a broader policy, not just to keep up with living costs.

6 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

They may keep the same structure, or may make some major tweaks.

Or they may keep the same amount and change the tweaks. . Or they make change both the amount and the tweaks. Or they could keep both amounts and the tweaks the same. Or get rid of both amounts and the tweaks.

Edited 10 hours ago10 hr by JerryM

7 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

Thailand doesn't care what the price of eggs is in your country and if you can afford them.

Just by being here, you are supporting the economy.

But if you rack up a huge hospital bill that you can't pay, you may have problems.

They have you here on renewable visas. The dealer always wins.

You have contradicted yourself, and basically have agreed with the point I am making.

Basically, they care about eggs in one's home country because it shows they can afford that highly likely hospital bill in the future.

Yes, I have always said the 1 year retirement visa / extension is nothing more than a 1 year tourist visa.

Just to be clear, I am talking about expat pensioners who can't even afford the air ticket back to their country. They live from pension day to pension day here. You know the demographic I am talking about.

I accept even 1 baht coming in from abroad is supporting the economy, but with your hospital bill example, there can be more risk than reward for Thailand taking in such people, and they may decide in the future the risk is no longer worth the meager money they put into the economy.

13 minutes ago, JerryM said:

Then, as KuhnLA referenced above, there is a significant portion who do not bother with the 800K or 65K/month at all.

I am one of them. Not because I do not have 800k to move here, rather I see the 800k as a waste of money, and nothing more than a donation to a Thai bank.

I've posted the numbers before, and it's actually financially beneficial for me to keep the 800k invested in my home country, which more than pays for the agent. However, that's not the main reason I use an agent. The main reason is I'm not moving 800k to 3rd world country. I have nothing I can't leave behind and head straight to the airport should I want to or need to.

They may stop the use of agents in the future.

The world is changing. Previously privileged people from western countries are no longer so privileged. The purchasing power of their money has gone way down in recent year.

I posted of another option they have, and that is, the retirement visa is for 50 to say 75 years of age, after that, go home. Thailand gets you in when you have money to spend, and are capable of spending it, then you go home.

The last US Consular outreach i attended there was a backup at the desk so I chatted a bit with one of the consular. I said after a bit that the talk is that MOST of those swearing on affidavit to 65K per month income do not have 65K per month income. He said: We know it. That's one reason why they are canceling the affidavit.

So it is also the talk that those who DO NOT have that income or 800k in the bank just use an agent for a discretionary no money in the bank extension.

1 minute ago, KhunHeineken said:

I am one of them. Not because I do not have 800k to move here, rather I see the 800k as a waste of money, and nothing more than a donation to a Thai bank.

You are paying bribe. Per statute not AI:

Section 144 Whoever, giving, offering or agreeing to give the property or any other benefit to the official ... so as to induce such person to do or not to do any act, or to delay the doing of any act contrary to one's own duty, shall be imprisoned not out of five years or fined not out of ten thousand Baht, or both.

And just as in this Thaiger story on nominees:

Thais built it, sold it, and registered it. So why is the foreigner the only one in the dock?

Edited 10 hours ago10 hr by JerryM

30 minutes ago, ravip said:

When you say "it could knock those on meager western aged pensions out of the game here" how much per month are you referring to, aproximately?

Good question, IMO it should be in the EUR 2500 to 3000 range. The 1700 Eur required for the retirement extension are ok, back home, for those who own their home and have good government health care. Here you must cover these expenses while the COL is about the same now and you might have to pay IT on top of that, hence my figure.

27 minutes ago, J Branche said:

Please elaborate "increased status".

Before Thailand you "invested" how much and received What in return?

If Thailand's Quality of Life, Affordability, modern infrastructure, healthcare, availability of companionship, and some of the Best people I've met in my travels (Thai People) is Not Enough. (Bounce, move somewhere else). When you start whinnying about how imperfect the next place is also you will come to realize the problem.

It's You. If you can't mentally adjust, adapt, open up and let people in then you will Always Struggle with feeling welcome somewhere.

My Advice, learn more about Thai Culture, weigh if you can learn to accept Thailand and make your decision.

Residence security

Regrets that you failed to get that

Legally first day or 30th year no difference in legal status.

There should be a path to permanent residency from retirement.

Thailand isn't the only country like that but the vast majority of countries that have retirement visas do.

Whether I stay or go is none of your business. I obviously want to stay though.

I understand Thailand will never offer residence security based on retirement. Based on that I strongly advice retired expats here to consider Plan Bs and not to buy real estate.

Cheers.

Edited 10 hours ago10 hr by Jingthing

18 minutes ago, marin said:

I have lived here for 38 years and its been fine and stable.

How many coups in this "fine and stable" country in the last 38 years? 🤣 🤣

19 minutes ago, marin said:

First came as a tourist in 1977, its been fine and stable since then.

Rubbish.

Coups and military junta, several times.

20 minutes ago, marin said:

Totally disagree with your posts.

Which is your right. I'm interested in why, not just your throw away lines.

21 minutes ago, marin said:

The wife and I have invested here over the years and feel comfortable for the long term. Nobody is out to get us, that is for sure.

Are you seriously suggesting you have the same rights as your Thai wife?

News for you, that visa you're on gives you no more rights than someone on a 30 day visa exemption stamp. The only thing you can do that they can't is hold a 5 year drivers license as opposed to a 2 year license. What a great concession after investing and living in Thailand for 38 yeas. 😂 😂

Whether you like it or not, no matter how many years and how much money you have invested, you are still in the same group as the the expat that retired here 1 week ago.

If no one is out to get you / foreigners, is this whole thread about nothing????

21 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Just to be clear, I am talking about expat pensioners who can't even afford the air ticket back to their country. They live from pension day to pension day here. You know the demographic I am talking about.

The ones who always have money for the bars?

8 minutes ago, JerryM said:

You are paying bribe.

Indirectly, yes, and not due to affordability, or profitability.

I simply don't put money into unstable 3rd world countries and their banking system.

"Thailand is not running a charity for retired expats of meager means."

Yes I agree - there's no reason for any country to behave like a charity, (although the UK seems to be doing it's best to achieve that unremarkable status...)

But if a country wants to attract retired expats who are not of meagre means, then they really need to offer them something of value, such as an 'immigrant visa', as opposed to a temporary visa that offers no residency rights.

Yes. It is quite obvious that the officials do not want us to here, they tolerate us but they certainly don't make our lives any easier, and the entire immigration process is quite silly especially for marriage visas.

A few years back I returned from immigration, after renewing my marriage visa. The upside to this visa, is that only 400,000 is needed as a deposit, and it does not have to stay in the bank, once your visa is granted. The downsides are:

The hurdles you need to jump over, in order to get a marriage visa are stupid, ridiculous, unnecessary, draconian, wasteful, and silly. I understand the need for them to verify that you are a legitimate couple. Upon the first application. But, the dumb requirements should not relate to renewals. You should not be required to show fresh images of the house each time, copies of the marriage papers, the house documents, either come with a local Thai witness, or bring a signed affidavit from a local Thai each time, provide new maps to the house, and dozens of other requirements.

I just do not even know what to say about the process. I felt like a street dog by the time I left. After hours of paperwork, copy after copy after copy, each page having to be signed, and then being grilling by the surly officer, I literally felt like a street dog. The level of disrespect that immigration shows married couples here, and foreigners in general, is totally uncalled for, beyond the pale, and inane. The copy woman, the guy sorting our papers, they were all nice. But, the officers? Such sourpusses. The woman who was helping us was so difficult to work with, when she finally rejected us over the tiniest thing she did not like, after nearly an hour of reviewing every document with a microscope, so to speak, and said no, I responded by saying yes. YES, you are going to do this. Yes, you are going to do this right now. YES, you are going to stop saying NO to me right now. This ends now. She looked at me and did not know what to say. I asked for the manager. The top brass came over, and we had it sorted in 30 minutes. Took nearly 3 hours. And as usual, it will be a month, until I have final approval. Is it worth it? NO. It is my last marriage visa. I will go back to a retirement visa next year, or leave the country, before I subject myself to that abuse one more time.

Frankly, I think at least some of this comes from the rather extreme level of xenophobia and the toxic racism of the army. It filters down throughout the government. I do not think they want us here. And making these procedures difficult is one way of expressing that. 

 

Fortunately, I feel very little of that sentiment from the non governmental Thai people. 

 

I still love it here. But, if I had the required cash, I would likely spend 6 months a year in Italy and elsewhere, a few months traveling, a month in the US (family and work), and maybe two months a year here. 

1 minute ago, save the frogs said:

The ones who always have money for the bars?

No, the ones that buy lao khao. They lost their money years ago. 😂

2 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

But, the officers? Such sourpusses.

They probably just don't like their jobs.

And the excessive hassle may be because people all over the world are getting fake marriage arrangements to get permanent residency.

5 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Whether you like it or not, no matter how many years and how much money you have invested, you are still in the same group as the the expat that retired here 1 week ago.

Did you star in the movie Clueless? Not only negative but angry at the same time. Good luck, as you will need it.

36 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

It's as expensive as back home when all is factored in, maybe even more.

True enough, but we get a lot more for the Dollar that's the thing isn't it? You spend the same, but you get a lot more.

1 minute ago, simon43 said:

"Thailand is not running a charity for retired expats of meager means."

Yes I agree - there's no reason for any country to behave like a charity, (although the UK seems to be doing it's best to achieve that unremarkable status...)

But if a country wants to attract retired expats who are not of meagre means, then they really need to offer them something of value, such as an 'immigrant visa', as opposed to a temporary visa that offers no residency rights.

Yes, offering some confidence in one's future here would attract more wealthy expat retirees. Or, make it 2,000,000 baht, or similar, and stop the agents. No grandfathering, and give current expats 1 year to deposit the extra money, or leave. Job done, and they get to capitalize Thai banks.

I know many will troll me for such a comment, but Thailand is not running a charity.

There was an article in the news this week they are targeting more wealthy tourists. We've all heard that before. We know they have no control of the wealth of who comes for a 2 week holiday, but they have a lot of control over who can come and live here, and who gets to remain living here. They say jump, and expats ask how high?

7 minutes ago, marin said:

Did you star in the movie Clueless? Not only negative but angry at the same time. Good luck, as you will need it.

Your personal attack is wasted on me.

If you disagree, say why.

I don't need luck. I have nothing here I can't walk away from in a heart beat, and that's by design. I have my Plan B, and it's Danang - Vietnam. I have even chosen the condo block there. It's you that will need the luck.

12 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Indirectly, yes,

And the intermediary agent is just as complicit as yourself. I am not predicting anything. Only noticing in the nominee dustup that it's the farang left holding the bag when things go south.