No More Dependent Extension Of Stay If The Host Foreigner Has A Retirement Extension Of Stay Permit

[Sunbelt Asia]

No More Dependent Extension Of Stay If The Host Foreigner Has A Retirement Extension Of Stay Permit

and

Map required

If a foreigner has been granted a extension of stay based on retirement, until now as per 7.19 of the Royal Police Office Order 606/2006 his or her foreign dependent ( Wife or husband, child, father, mother) could get a extension of stay by being a dependent. As of Sept 1st, no more dependent extension of stay permits will be issued if the foreigner has a extension of stay based on retirement. This includes any “grandfather” cases where the dependent applicant had the extension of stay before Sept 1st 2007.

Example. A foreigner husband is 53 years old and has a extension of stay based on retirement. His wife is Japanese and they live together in Thailand. She is 43 years old and now cannot get a extension of stay as a dependent. Even if she was 51 years old, she does not qualify. She must meet her own set of criteria and not piggyback off her husbands retirement extension of stay permit. If she is over 50 years old, she can get a extension of stay based on retirement but must have her own 800K sent from outside the country to her bank account or qualify by having a pension of 65K per month.

Example: A foreigner has two children that are not Thai nationals. They are 16 years old and 12 years old. They can no longer be a dependent to obtain a extension of stay permit by having a father who is over 50 years old. They possibly can get a extension of stay permit or visa on a different criteria. Perhaps they will qualify as a educational extension of stay permit.

This National Police Order will be dated Sept 1st 2007 and will be published in the Gazette in the next 10 days. However this order is effective immediately.

This could be a U-turn next week but the odds are very high, this will continued to be the new law and interpretation.

If you are applying for the extension of stay based on retirement. You now need to provide a map from Immigration to your house.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[rainman]

As of Sept 1st, no more dependent extension of stay permits will be issued if the foreigner has a extension of stay based on retirement. This includes any “grandfather” cases where the dependent applicant had the extension of stay before Sept 1st 2007.

Not being affected myself, I think that will be very bad news for many families currently living in Thailand. I can understand their decision to not accept new applications, but virtually kicking out those who are currently living here under the regulations they made is very very bad.

[retiredusn]

Guess its time to look for a house in the U.S

[Crossy]

Not going to affect me directly but definately a disaster for many, many retired couples.

Thailand has just stopped being a favourable retirement location. I wonder if the powers that be have thought this through as to exactly how many retired couples will now have to sell up and move, taking their (evidently too small) contribution to the local economy with them?

Another fine example of just how tenuous our position here is, I wonder what will be next?

Edited September 1, 2007 by Crossy

[pumpuiman]

If you are applying for the extension of stay based on retirement. You now need to provide a map from Immigration to your house.

How ridiculous is this? Immigration cant read an address? If someone has a detailed map of my moo ban...please let me know.......I've never found one.

Will a sketch suffice?

Seriously...is this a joke?

[jcgodber]

I have friends, (American husband and wife) that have retired here and have contributed to the Thai economy each month to the tune of around 80,000 to 100,000 baht each and every month for several years. Now the Thai government wants to drive these people out??

This looks like a giant step backwards for Thailand. Thousands of vendors here depend on foreigners spending their retirement income here in Thailand for goods and services. I strongly suspect that The Thailand government has made an extremely unwise decision. These foreign retirees that are here take nothing and spend, spend, spend and now the government is telling them to go spend somewhere else???

It is my understanding that Thailand NEEDS dollars brought into the country and now they forcing people to take their dollars and go away????

My function here is to bring dollars into the country and hurry and spend them so I can bring more in.

[Dakhar]

and thailand does it agian.....

[JimsKnight]

As of Sept 1st, no more dependent extension of stay permits will be issued if the foreigner has a extension of stay based on retirement. This includes any “grandfather” cases where the dependent applicant had the extension of stay before Sept 1st 2007.

Not being affected myself, I think that will be very bad news for many families currently living in Thailand. I can understand their decision to not accept new applications, but virtually kicking out those who are currently living here under the regulations they made is very very bad.

I actually thought this wasn't allowed from years ago. Oh well. Seems like the Thais are doing yet more fine-tuning of who they want in LOS.

They'll lose out on this. But the blind leads blind as the wierd and crazy tune of life in LOS continues

Edited September 1, 2007 by JimsKnight

[DerringDo]

Sad day for those married couples where only one fits the retirement criteria. Looks like you'll have to look for somewhere more welcoming OR get a different type of visa. It may be easier for the children as they'll be in school and there are various visas around to help with that, or so I've been told.

[andyc2006]

I wonder if the powers that be have thought this through as to exactly how many retired couples will now have to sell up and move, taking their (evidently too small) contribution to the local economy with them?

I think that's their whole point/goal, so I'd say yes, the "powers that be have thought" it through, to the extent that they know they're driving foreigners out of the country.

Now the Thai government wants to drive these people out??

Yes. Their country, their choice.

Amazingly, despite their ongoing attempts to drive us all away, some of us just cling on no matter what. They must view us like cockroaches -- nearly impossible to get rid of.

[Hollywood]

I will be watching the condo prices ..........

This is very bad news and somthing you do not want when you are older.

Good website for info is

[mrphil]

If you are applying for the extension of stay based on retirement. You now need to provide a map from Immigration to your house.

How ridiculous is this? Immigration cant read an address? If someone has a detailed map of my moo ban...please let me know.......I've never found one.

Will a sketch suffice?

Seriously...is this a joke?

Very ridiculous.

So a retiree can come live here (well, for now anyway), but his wife is not welcome ??

And how many wives of retirees are going to have an independent income?

And as for maps, have you ever met a Thai person who can read one ?

I seriously question the sanity of some of the people 'running' this country

[teacher]

I have friends, (American husband and wife) that have retired here and have contributed to the Thai economy each month to the tune of around 80,000 to 100,000 baht each and every month for several years. Now the Thai government wants to drive these people out??

This looks like a giant step backwards for Thailand. Thousands of vendors here depend on foreigners spending their retirement income here in Thailand for goods and services. I strongly suspect that The Thailand government has made an extremely unwise decision. These foreign retirees that are here take nothing and spend, spend, spend and now the government is telling them to go spend somewhere else???

Along with the changes that will come out in OCTOBER they have just about shot themselves in the foot.

I also know three couples who stay here under the old rules. Now it seems that they may have to up and go to Cambodia or the likes as they dont have 800,000bt in the bank EACH.

One other friend is here because he has a baby (in his name but not married) he had to adopted his own daughter and has a visa because she is dependent on his income from the uk. He is 48 years old and can not qualify for a retirement visa as the age for one is 50.

Anyone any thoughts please???????

[fruittbatt]

There is a yawning discrepancy between the financial requirements for a farang husband-Thai wife, and farang-farang couple retirees. What can be the basis for such inconsistency? It almost seems this is a campaign to encourage more farangs to partner with Thais and to bump their foreign spouses

The new policy will probably prompt emigration of retirees to Malaysia...and will certainly impact negatively on local Thai business.

[nikster]

I am not affected as I won't qualify for a retirement visa for many years to come, but this new rule is truly stupid and cruel. Why make it harder for foreign families to stay in Thailand? I can't think of a single reason. At the same time, those that are affected by this rule will be hit very hard. And others who maybe could come up with the money will probably leave in disgust.

What kind of government invents new laws that specifically hurt families? It boggles the mind.

PS: I think one needs to view this in the context of ever-increasing anti-foreigner laws and increased isolationism in Thailand. It's sad because it hurts the Thai people the most.

Good point on condo prices too. I was in the market for a condo but now, not anymore. Not because of this specific law, more like because of the general direction this country is taking which virtually guarantees that the ROI becomes smaller and smaller... retirees getting kicked out, hard to move money out of the country, etc etc.

Edited September 1, 2007 by nikster

[Lite Beer]

Personally I always thought it a bit strange that they allowed this rule in the first place, but seeing as they did it seems morally wrong to take it away from people already using it. They could have at least Grandfathered it. That would have been the intelligent and moral thing for immigration to have done.

Ooops did I just mention Intelligent and Immigration in the same sentence? Sorry.

[otton]

If a foreigner has been granted a extension of stay based on retirement, until now as per 7.19 of the Royal Police Office Order 606/2006 his or her foreign dependent ( Wife or husband, child, father, mother) could get a extension of stay by being a dependent. As of Sept 1st, no more dependent extension of stay permits will be issued

Some more ones sorted!

Next!

This includes any “grandfather” cases where the dependent applicant had the extension of stay before Sept 1st 2007.

[...]

This National Police Order will be dated Sept 1st 2007 and will be published in the Gazette in the next 10 days. However this order is effective immediately.

These are the most important and telling parts and this is what even those who aren't affected at all should carefully think about...

It doesn't surprise those of us who have long understood Thailand and the Thais, of course.

If you are applying for the extension of stay based on retirement. You now need to provide a map from Immigration to your house.

Typical third world!

[GezT]

Sorry to be so picky but in the third last word of your last sentance you forgot to put the letter 'i' after the 'u' and before the 'n'

If you are applying for the extension of stay based on retirement. You now need to provide a map from Immigration to your house.

How ridiculous is this? Immigration cant read an address? If someone has a detailed map of my moo ban...please let me know.......I've never found one.

Will a sketch suffice?

Seriously...is this a joke?

Very ridiculous.

So a retiree can come live here (well, for now anyway), but his wife is not welcome ??

And how many wives of retirees are going to have an independent income?

And as for maps, have you ever met a Thai person who can read one ?

I seriously question the sanity of some of the people 'running' this country

[vultureintree]

Incredible. I have a retirement visa and live with my young son who has an education visa and his mother, whom I am not married to. She is not a Thai. She has been permitted to stay because our son is young and our son is dependent on her. She has an O visa. Does this mean she gets kicked out?? Previously, immigration has asked to see proof that she has so many baht in her account.

[rickgyles]

Looks like we have to face it that Thailand doesn’t want us here.

they don't support middle class people like us. who love there wife and kids.

I married since 10 Years and have a daughter of 5years I’m since 5Years here in can speak fluent Thai, worked here for 3 Years since 2 Years I spent my Savings to build a Resort since this Year it is a struggle to get the Visa issue done,

I spent 12 Mio and as it is not finished, no chance to sell it as well.

Means: Trapped here and future unsure.

In Europe you get a Residence Visa after 3 Years married to a European.

Have a lot of friend who left to other countries.

They just don’t want to see that they kill this country.

They need us but don’t want to admit it.

Good luck to everybody

Rick

[Crossy]

Incredible. I have a retirement visa and live with my young son who has an education visa and his mother, whom I am not married to. She is not a Thai. She has been permitted to stay because our son is young and our son is dependent on her. She has an O visa. Does this mean she gets kicked out?? Previously, immigration has asked to see proof that she has so many baht in her account.

I don't think you have anything to worry about as yet. This rule specifically targets foreign dependants who are piggy-backing on a retirement extension. Your lady's permit is attached to your son's visa so there is no issue

[selftaopath]

If you are applying for the extension of stay based on retirement. You now need to provide a map from Immigration to your house.

How ridiculous is this? Immigration cant read an address? If someone has a detailed map of my moo ban...please let me know.......I've never found one.

Will a sketch suffice?

Seriously...is this a joke?

Very ridiculous.

So a retiree can come live here (well, for now anyway), but his wife is not welcome ??

And how many wives of retirees are going to have an independent income?

And as for maps, have you ever met a Thai person who can read one ?

I seriously question the sanity of some of the people 'running' this country

From my perspective this is sheer "madness." This allows "farangs" to, perhaps, reconsider the desirability of remaining in the land of Lack of Sensibilility (LOS).

Keoki

Edited September 1, 2007 by selftaopath

[ovenman]

Incredible. I have a retirement visa and live with my young son who has an education visa and his mother, whom I am not married to. She is not a Thai. She has been permitted to stay because our son is young and our son is dependent on her. She has an O visa. Does this mean she gets kicked out?? Previously, immigration has asked to see proof that she has so many baht in her account.

Does her visa status piggy-back from yours or is her visa status standalone? From your mention if immigrations wanting to see her money, it sounds like the latter in which case, she would not be affected by this change.

[billaaa777]

And the “HITS” keep on coming! I know what the Thai authorities are thinking; “We have not changed any laws in the last fifteen minutes, so let’s keep up our reputation and make sure we make everybody as confused as possible and make more changes!”

How can anybody live and do business in place they modify the height of the bar constantly. And they wonder why their economy is in the dumps. The only thing that remains constant here is nothing remains constant. What an F’n JOKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mobi]

Although this new regulation is to be deplored and will cause much unhappiness and even suffering, the most significant and worrying part relates to the lack of a 'grandfather' ruling.

this not only demonstrates complete lack of care and compassion to their fellow humans, but also is a clear signal that any new changes in the retirement laws in the future will also not be 'grandfathered'

So watch out for a doubling or trebling of the 'retirement deposit' in the coming years, along with other new or stricter rules - like, for example the requirement for a 'genuine' medical certificate from a designated government hospital. And no grandfather clause.

I think all those currently retired here should have a 'fall back ' plan, and those planning to retire here should seriously think again.

Maybe these new rules are in response to the anger and loss of face generated by the EU's request to monitor/control the upcoming elections?

"We'll show you bloody farangs whose country this is!!!"

Of course, as Sunbelt has stated, it may all change next week.....

But don't count on it

Edited September 1, 2007 by Mobi

[chiang mai]

I am amazed at all of this. This ruling dismisses any possibility whatsoever the notion that Thai's are firm believers in the family unit and reinforces without question the idea that foreigners are wanted only for their money. Shame on you Thailand. And no, it doesn't effect me personally.

[cosmont]

I am not affected as I won't qualify for a retirement visa for many years to come, but this new rule is truly stupid and cruel. Why make it harder for foreign families to stay in Thailand? I can't think of a single reason. At the same time, those that are affected by this rule will be hit very hard. And others who maybe could come up with the money will probably leave in disgust.

What kind of government invents new laws that specifically hurt families? It boggles the mind.

PS: I think one needs to view this in the context of ever-increasing anti-foreigner laws and increased isolationism in Thailand. It's sad because it hurts the Thai people the most.

Good point on condo prices too. I was in the market for a condo but now, not anymore. Not because of this specific law, more like because of the general direction this country is taking which virtually guarantees that the ROI becomes smaller and smaller... retirees getting kicked out, hard to move money out of the country, etc etc.

I am exactly in the same position, you think right...

Hope new elected gouvernment will change these new rules

[ovenman]

Although this new regulation is to be deplored and will cause much unhappiness and even suffering, the most significant and worrying part relates to the lack of a 'grandfather' ruling.

Indeed. I'm still waiting for one of our resident holier-than-thou types who insist that their own visa is sorted to chime in with the usual tripe about how the ongoing visa changes could never, ever affect them.

[gibsongk55]

I have friends, (American husband and wife) that have retired here and have contributed to the Thai economy each month to the tune of around 80,000 to 100,000 baht each and every month for several years. Now the Thai government wants to drive these people out??

This looks like a giant step backwards for Thailand. Thousands of vendors here depend on foreigners spending their retirement income here in Thailand for goods and services. I strongly suspect that The Thailand government has made an extremely unwise decision. These foreign retirees that are here take nothing and spend, spend, spend and now the government is telling them to go spend somewhere else???

It is my understanding that Thailand NEEDS dollars brought into the country and now they forcing people to take their dollars and go away????

My function here is to bring dollars into the country and hurry and spend them so I can bring more in.

No i don't think the thai government cares so much about the incone. They would rather let all the lying and cheating poo ying steal money and houses from the farang. Otherwise they would make a law against that and not condone such activity.

[hansnl]

I suppose the authorities only want farang to visit the country, spend some money and <deleted> off again.

I wonder how many couples will be affected by this, maybe as many as 50000. Which means that quite a hefty amount of spending will go somewhere else (50,000 couples spending 65,000 bath = 3,250,000,000 bath each month)

For that kind of money to be spent by short time tourists, we are talking about hundreds of tourists, costing much more money for Thailand in investment for infrastructure alone.

Fact is that a lot of retirees vist the country where they want to retire a few times before deciding.

Those visits will also disappear.

Less income for Thailand again.

I think the authorities want to see more poor Thai people?

Or maybe they think the farang are dangerous.

We must be, if something goes wrong somewhere, the farang gets the blame.

What is next?

I wonder when we, the married to a Thai woman will be sent out?

I have to be back in Holland next week, guess I will look out for a suitable house to live over there again.

I feel very unwelcome in Thailand by now.