Tourists Trapped In Blazing Hotel

[A_Traveller]

There's a line in the Sydney Herald report saying the hotel was being renovated. Have to say some of the things I've seen here would mean if I knew a hotel was under renovation I'd not stay there {possibly excepting the major chains as mentioned before}. The safety risk with paint, solvents etc. in the, let us be polite here, less stringent observance of safety regulations environment is problematic.

One thing that recent events highlight, again, is that with no effective enforcement people get hurt or even die. I recall a poster summing up, positively, the point that Thai's are more tolerant. But that is the issue, with no 'consumer advocacy' lax standards will prevail. Problem is that the attitude is 'mai pben rai', or even it's fate. No it's not fate for a building to have non functioning sprinklers, as seems to be the case here, nor is it fate for a boat to sail according to reports overloaded.

Regards

[ronthompson]

A person would be wise to stay with the name hotels and/or newer ones. Just is not worth trying to save a buck or two. Hotels are just tootall and fires are bad in any hotel and in any country.

[meemiathai]

There's a line in the Sydney Herald report saying the hotel was being renovated. Have to say some of the things I've seen here would mean if I knew a hotel was under renovation I'd not stay there {possibly excepting the major chains as mentioned before}. The safety risk with paint, solvents etc. in the, let us be polite here, less stringent observance of safety regulations environment is problematic.

One thing that recent events highlight, again, is that with no effective enforcement people get hurt or even die. I recall a poster summing up, positively, the point that Thai's are more tolerant. But that is the issue, with no 'consumer advocacy' lax standards will prevail. Problem is that the attitude is 'mai pben rai', or even it's fate. No it's not fate for a building to have non functioning sprinklers, as seems to be the case here, nor is it fate for a boat to sail according to reports overloaded.

Regards

It might not be exactly just the "mai pben rai" issue I guess. It is the corruptedness of the country. Money.

We have to accept that human beings advance in different paces in different parts of the world. It is just a matter of degree with how advance or backwards a place is.

And yes, it becomes much more dangerous when a place is under renovation. Plenty of disasters happened during renovation.

There was a fire 10 yrs ago here in HK that killed 40 people and that building was under renovation. Ironically, a lot of people benefitted their pockets due to that incident.

[alanxyz]

A lot of accidents involving tourists going on these last two days.

Was thinking the samesame, Jimjim.

I am glad everyone seems to have survived this one; potentially disastrous.

"Planes and boats and ... fires ... " . Who sang that ?

it was trains and boats and planes sung by billy j krammer a english band in the early 60s

[MickyP]

Injuries to tourists are mentioned, but nothing about the hotel staff? Were they not involved in attempting rescues or tackling the blaze?

This episode and the comments from Markokang, underline the necessity to check the safety facilities, equipment and procedures when checking into a hotel, regardless where in the world you are, and if you are not happy with the arrangements, state your concerns to the Management, claim a refund and seek better accomodation. Its your life they are playing with !!

[paulgfox]

Thank you to everyone who has posted information about this recent hotel fire in Bangkok. I am the Asst. Chief of Training for Changpuak Fire Dept. in Chiang Mai. I am the only fareng who is a member of the Thai Fire Service. Since I don't have a Work Permit yet, I am a Volunteer Firefighter. While I still live in Hawaii, I travel to Thailand five or six times a year to do training. In October I will be returning to Thailand to, would you believe, give a three day class on "Hotel Fire Protection Management." I would greatly appreciate anybody and everybody who can send me as much information on this fire as possible. Anybody got some photos and/or video of the firefighting operations? If you have information about this fire, and especially if you were there, I would love to speak to you about it. Could you email me your phone number (in Thailand or where ever) and could I call you to talk to you about this fire. If you want to call me, my number in Hawaii is 1-808-528-2733. I love Thailand and I want to do all I can to help my Thai friends. With your help, we can not only make it a great place to be, but a safer place to be.

Aloha and Chok Di Kup,

Paul "Dang" Fox

Training Liaison Officer / Asst. Chief of Training

Hickam AFB Fire Dept. / Changpuak Fire Dept.

[maprao]

Thank you to everyone who has posted information about this recent hotel fire in Bangkok. I am the Asst. Chief of Training for Changpuak Fire Dept. in Chiang Mai. I am the only fareng who is a member of the Thai Fire Service. Since I don't have a Work Permit yet, I am a Volunteer Firefighter. While I still live in Hawaii, I travel to Thailand five or six times a year to do training. In October I will be returning to Thailand to, would you believe, give a three day class on "Hotel Fire Protection Management." I would greatly appreciate anybody and everybody who can send me as much information on this fire as possible. Anybody got some photos and/or video of the firefighting operations? If you have information about this fire, and especially if you were there, I would love to speak to you about it. Could you email me your phone number (in Thailand or where ever) and could I call you to talk to you about this fire. If you want to call me, my number in Hawaii is 1-808-528-2733. I love Thailand and I want to do all I can to help my Thai friends. With your help, we can not only make it a great place to be, but a safer place to be.

Aloha and Chok Di Kup,

Paul "Dang" Fox

Training Liaison Officer / Asst. Chief of Training

Hickam AFB Fire Dept. / Changpuak Fire Dept.

Well done for the volunteer work. Be careful because as a farang even unpaid work requires a work permit in Thailand. However when it is for the benefit of the community I think they turn a blind eye. Don't want you to find yourself in hot water.

Edited September 5, 2007 by maprao

[GRIFF33]

Another fire broke out at Mandarin Hotel

A second round of fire broke out at the Mandarin Hotel after firefighters were able to put the flames under control this morning (September 5th). However, officials believed the fire would not spread violently.

The Mandarin Hotel went ablaze last night, but firefighters were able to smother the fire this morning. However, another fire broke out at 08:00 hours on the second floor of the hotel where the storage room is located. Nevertheless, the flames were not as intense as the fire last night, and firefighters believed they could prevent the fire from spreading to other areas.

Meanwhile, Thai and foreign tourists at the hotel are still alarmed of the incident, but firefighters already allowed some of them to check their belongings in their rooms. The hotel guests will be transferred to Tawana Ramada Hotel, and the Mandarin Hotel will take care of all their expenses.

Bangkok Governor Apirak Kosayodhin (อภิรักษ์ โกษะโยธิน) also traveled to the Mandarin Hotel to inspect the fire incident.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 05 September 2007

[Cheeky Farang]

I always always always try to get a room in the lower levels of the hotel.

Reason - If a fire starts, you'll want to get out of the building as quickly as possible. This can be difficult if your room is in the upper floors. In BKK the fire service DO NOT have high level ladders like we have in the west. HAVE YOU EVER SEEN ONE ?

When you make your reservations, ask for a room on the ground floor or close to it. If you're not able to do this in the reservation process, request it when you check in.

[GRIFF33]

Great News, my question is how safe is the Tawana Ramada - Both declined the opportunity to have full health and safety checks in the hotel - The Mandarin is full to overflowing consistenly due to great rates on the internet, revenue of course being the priority- And now...no need to worry about that - Lets just look at the cost of human suffering not only for this hotel but the hundreds of others out there that have the same poor safety measures in place -

Come on TAT if you want to improve tourism to Thailand, lets make it safe!

My congrats go to those Fantastic firefighters who managed to get everyone out alive.

BMA asks Thai Hotels Association to reinforce safety measures in old hotels

The Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA) will coordinate with the Thai Hotels Association in boosting safety measures in old hotels.

Following the fire incident at the Mandarin Hotel in Bangkok, Bangkok Governor Apirak Kosayodhin (อภิรักษ์ โกษะโยธิน) says he will have a meeting with the President of the Thai Hotels Association in order to ask for cooperation from hotel operators to upgrade safety measures, especially in old hotels. He says their warning systems may not be complete.

Meanwhile, public works and district officers are inspecting the cause of fire at the Mandarin Hotel, and are cooperating with the Engineering Institute of Thailand in examining the condition of the building. 16 foreign tourists have been injured from the fire at the Mandarin Hotel, and they are now being treated in the hospitals.

Mrs. Piengjai Harnpanit (เพียงใจ หาญพานิชย์), the Mandarin Hotel owner, says she has coordinated with the Tawana Ramada Hotel in accommodating the tourists who have been affected by the fire incident. At the same time, the BMA is coordinating with foreign embassies to Thailand to help take care of foreign tourists.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 05 September 2007

[beyondblue]

I am not in the slightest surprised to hear of the Hotel fire at the Mandarin, on Rama 1V.

Having stayed there as well as other so called 3/5 star 'dives', like the Malaysia and Pinnacle Hotel as well, these Hotels are so tired and in need of cleaning up, in some cases bulldozing would be the answer.

I agree it's worth paying a little extra and feeling safe and secure.

Even the Amari Watergate and the Montien are in dire need of some refreshing and painting, carpets are filthy, toilets and bathrooms smelly and mouldy.

The Thailand Tourist Authority really needs to get onto these so-called luzury hotels and close them until they are suitably safe, before there is a real tragedy.

It's just around the corner sadly.

[astral]

No doubt the emergency exits were locked??

As for holding owners responsible............... You must be joking?

A whole hotel collapsed in Nakorn Ratchasima (Korat) a few years back

as far as I remember no-one has every been held responsible.

[meemiathai]

And if it had been a burglary the question would have been "no doubt that the doors weren't locked?".

[TAWP]

And if it had been a burglary the question would have been "no doubt that the doors weren't locked?".

...?

You lock the doors to the safety and the rooms. Not the fire doors themselfs.

[astral]

Fire doors are locked to prevent unauthorised entry,

but they should allow easy exit in emergency!!

[Crossy]

And if it had been a burglary the question would have been "no doubt that the doors weren't locked?".

You lock the doors to the safety and the rooms. Not the fire doors themselfs.

and fire doors (should) have crash bars on the inside so they are easy to open even if locked. Unfortunately too many establisments double lock the doors so that the bars don't work, supposedly to stop guests sneeking out without paying.

[meemiathai]

And if it had been a burglary the question would have been "no doubt that the doors weren't locked?".

You lock the doors to the safety and the rooms. Not the fire doors themselfs.

and fire doors (should) have crash bars on the inside so they are easy to open even if locked. Unfortunately too many establisments double lock the doors so that the bars don't work, supposedly to stop guests sneeking out without paying.

Well that is the point.

Why the he11 do they keep their doors locked?

[Foggy Bottom]

Certainly not a luxury hotel. I've stayed there several times, the last of which about four years ago and even then the hotel was looking very old and shabby.

SL.

It was a nice place in the late 60s. Pretty down at heel when I last stayed there in 96. Would be well past its use-by date now.

A clue to the cause there?

[Briggsy]

I am not in the slightest surprised to hear of the Hotel fire at the Mandarin, on Rama 1V.

Having stayed there as well as other so called 3/5 star 'dives', like the Malaysia and Pinnacle Hotel as well, these Hotels are so tired and in need of cleaning up, in some cases bulldozing would be the answer.

I agree it's worth paying a little extra and feeling safe and secure.

Even the Amari Watergate and the Montien are in dire need of some refreshing and painting, carpets are filthy, toilets and bathrooms smelly and mouldy.

The Thailand Tourist Authority really needs to get onto these so-called luzury hotels and close them until they are suitably safe, before there is a real tragedy.

It's just around the corner sadly.

Actually, the tragedy already happened in Pattaya over 10 years ago. Royal Jomtien Resort.

[Hollywood]

I always always always try to get a room in the lower levels of the hotel.

Reason - If a fire starts, you'll want to get out of the building as quickly as possible. This can be difficult if your room is in the upper floors. In BKK the fire service DO NOT have high level ladders like we have in the west. HAVE YOU EVER SEEN ONE ?

When you make your reservations, ask for a room on the ground floor or close to it. If you're not able to do this in the reservation process, request it when you check in.

Same here, always a low floor. Also be careful in crowded nightspots. Stay near an exit. Was up early one morning headed to Foodland Patpong and could hear thumping noise from an afterhours clup on an upper floor up a back staicase. Heaven help them escape in a fire.

[Johpa]

I am not in the slightest surprised to hear of the Hotel fire at the Mandarin, on Rama 1V.

Having stayed there as well as other so called 3/5 star 'dives', like the Malaysia.....

Your first post and you are the first person I have met in 25 years to refer to the venerable Malaysia as a 3 star hotel, either quite the compliment to the Malaysia Hotel or simply lack of experience. Not that there are not some real low end "dive" hotels in Thailand, the best sign of a dive is rooms being rented out by the hour, but neither the Malaysia nor the Mandarin classify as dives. And as far as cutting safety corners in construction in Thailand, that is not confined to budget hotels nor older constructions.

[brahmburgers]

when checking in anywhere above the 1st floor, always look around to make sure where the stairwells are.

[aussiecollin]

Think I will take a smoke detector next trip to BKK. They are cheap here (Australia) and would let me sleep a little easier.

[gburns57au]

No doubt the emergency exits were locked??

As for holding owners responsible............... You must be joking?

A whole hotel collapsed in Nakorn Ratchasima (Korat) a few years back

as far as I remember no-one has every been held responsible.

The owners were convicted of illegally adding floors without the correct authority.

[WaiWai]

QUOTE(WaiWai @ 2007-09-05 11:07:54)

QUOTE(Jimjim @ 2007-09-05 10:31:52)

A lot of accidents involving tourists going on these last two days.

Was thinking the samesame, Jimjim.

I am glad everyone seems to have survived this one; potentially disastrous.

"Planes and boats and ... fires ... " . Who sang that ?

it was trains and boats and planes sung by billy j krammer a english band in the early 60s

Thank you, alan, for this in your very first post !

[jomtienbob]

I certainly wish well for all those involved, but I'm astounded how bad the English grammar is on these Nation accounts of the fire. Truly appalling the state of English editing for the on-line version.

With poor (no) building code enforcement, reliance on cheap unskilled labour and a desire to make money over all else its really surprising there aren't more fires and fatalities.

Remember reading an account by an English electrician about his internal debate to use the hot water heater after reading the warning on the unit. Very funny, but he decided to go cold shower after inspecting the work.

You guys have to remember that in respect of social and formal education, the Thailand of today equates to the land of your birth in the 15-1600's. Yes once you grasp this inescapable conclusion, you will start to be less vitriolic and indeed do as an earlier poster suggested. Spend the USD$150+ per night to stay at the EU-US-Oz standard places as there are heaps of them around. I am not defending the poor standards here in Thailand but simply pointing out the issue "why and how could you possibly expect anything more???" You get what you pay for pal! This is NOT AMERICON!

You might recall that our civilizations took centuries to learn in safety and standards what we are expecting the Thais to take as a given today. Sorry, it just doesn't work that way. 1 or 2 generations ago 90% of all these people were poor farmers!

Get off your high horse some of you holier than thou farangs, your attitude just gives us all a bad wrap! If you don't understand what you are dealing in here, learn or leave. It is as simple as that. Some of you should really just go home, because that word HOME does not apply for you here!

[khunmarc]

BMA asks Thai Hotels Association to reinforce safety measures in old hotels

more 'regulations" = more cash bribes for officials

there is probably all the needed rules in place as always its the implementation thats the problem as its usually confused with wage subsidies like when the toll booth operators were pocketting the cash and driving mercedez on 120 baht a day salary

one issue no one talks is BKK is STILL on a volunteer fire department !

thats unreal for a city that size!!!!!!!!!!

oh and I love that picture of the farang with bar girl ready to jump... if thais see that one they gonna be laughing for weeks !!!!!!

[A_Traveller]

From Nation Report :-

Deputy Bangkok Governor Wallop Suwandee said the conflagration escalated quickly because of the hotel's flammable materials, wood furniture and carpets. He said he was not sure if the hotel's building design was illegal because it was built before the Control of Building Act of 1979.

Bang Rak Police Station superintendent Santi Jikangwal said two hotel workers were summoned and police found the fire started at a storage area on the second floor, which was being renovated as a cafe and had been locked since 9pm.

Lt-Colonel Chakarin Panthong said: "The initial assumption is that it was an electrical short-circuit that sparked the fire."

Regards

Link

[nickbkk]

Great News, my question is how safe is the Tawana Ramada - Both declined the opportunity to have full health and safety checks in the hotel - The Mandarin is full to overflowing consistenly due to great rates on the internet,

The Tawana is not a Ramada anymore. The old relationship ended last year. You can check for yourself at www.tawanahotel.com The only Ramada presence in Thailand currently is a couple of resorts, in Khao Lak and Phuket.

[JimmyCA]

I keep an escape rope in my 8th floor appartment. Not sure if it will help but better than nothing.