Baht Bus Fare - The Real Story

[Jingthing]

This drives make me happy to see Farangs go nuts over 5 baht

And than they tell you how rich they are.

Thay should see a nut Doctor.

Is a Taxi in EU or America 5 baht

Go home.

Cities in the EU and America HAVE taxis. They don't have a bunch of yahoos in dirty pickup trucks running a MAFIA and blocking the introduction of taxis under threat of murder.

Baht buses are not taxis. They can be chartered into so called taxis (at highway robbery rates, take it or leave it as there is no competition because you are dealing with a mafia), but they mostly run as buses with more or less predictable routes. We are talking about the fare for the bus part of the service which is determined by your racial appearance. I am not going nuts about anything here, certainly not 5 baht. I just think that the racism should be called out for what it is.

BTW, I love having the baht bus service and I suggest paying the fare associated with your skin color to avoid nasty violent surprises. However, what I am really pissed off about is the lack of Bangkok style taxi meters in Pattaya as COMPETITION and to fill in the areas not covered by the bus routes, which is definitely because the baht bus mafia will never allow it.

Another point: if you are going to comment on the baht bus situation, especially those dissing people like me with strong opinions about them, could you please state how long you stay or live in Pattaya and whether you use the public transport system here as your primary means of transport or not. I have lived here a year and have no moto or car, so completely rely on the baht buses which I do sometimes charter as so called taxis. I do question whether casual tourists really know what they are talking about on this subject.

Edited September 11, 2007 by Jingthing

[ZZZ]

This drives make me happy to see Farangs go nuts over 5 baht

And than they tell you how rich they are.

Thay should see a nut Doctor.

Is a Taxi in EU or America 5 baht

Go home.

Cities in the EU and America HAVE taxis. They don't have a bunch of yahoos in dirty pickup trucks running a MAFIA and blocking the introduction of taxis under threat of murder.

Baht buses are not taxis. They can be chartered into so called taxis (at highway robbery rates, take it or leave it as there is no competition because you are dealing with a mafia), but they mostly run as buses with more or less predictable routes. We are talking about the fare for the bus part of the service which is determined by your racial appearance. I am not going nuts about anything here, certainly not 5 baht. I just think that the racism should be called out for what it is.

BTW, I love having the baht bus service and I suggest paying the fare associated with your skin color to avoid nasty violent surprises. However, what I am really pissed off about is the lack of Bangkok style taxi meters in Pattaya as COMPETITION and to fill in the areas not covered by the bus routes, which is definitely because the baht bus mafia will never allow it.

Looks like you have it nearly right now, just change racial appearance to wealth appearance and racism to market economy and you will be spot on

I agree there should be a few taxi stops around town where you could go and get a taxi to places outside the the normal BB route.

[Jingthing]

Looks like you have it nearly right now, just change racial appearance to wealth appearance and racism to market economy and you will be spot on

A bus should have a fare. The SAME fare for all. If there is going to be negotiation needed to get on a bus (not a taxi) this should be required at the beginning of a ride, not at the end, when a disagreement could turn violent. You are not facing the real situation as it is. You take your bus ride and then the driver decides your face looks like a double fare face at the END of the ride. That is not a market economy, that is intimidation based on racial appearance.

Edited September 11, 2007 by Jingthing

[Naam]

The point is the same fare, for the same route for everybody who uses the service.

sure! that's why nearly all countries worldwide charge a flat amount of income tax whether a person has an income of 1,000 or 100 million dollars per annum. the taxmen are fair and do it because a rich chap uses the same services as a poor guy does... or most probably much less. wouldn't it be extremely unfair if some people had to pay more taxes because they make more money?

I'm not sure about the rest of the world, so I'll stick to what I know. In Australia and New Zealand you pay a higher percentage of tax if your income is higher. I'd be surprised if this "tax bracket" system was only practiced in these 2 countries.

sometimes the seed of my irony does not bear fruit of course nearly all countries levy income tax on amounts and most of them do it progressively. but nobody would call the taxman a racist if the neighbour pays less taxes.

[ZZZ]

Based on wealth appearance :-)

[Naam]

Looks like you have it nearly right now, just change racial appearance to wealth appearance and racism to market economy and you will be spot on

A bus should have a fare. The SAME fare for all. If there is going to be negotiation needed to get on a bus (not a taxi) this should be required at the beginning of a ride, not at the end, when a disagreement could turn violent. You are not facing the real situation as it is. You take your bus ride and then the driver decides your face looks like a double fare face at the END of the ride. That is not a market economy, that is intimidation based on racial appearance.

i [not so] humbly beg to differ. only the bloodiest greenhorn in Thailand is not aware that the going rate of ANYTHING is higher than the rate what the locals pay. pay, walk or fight. the choice is yours.

Edited September 11, 2007 by Dr. Naam

[soundman]

The only flaw in the arguments put forward for farang should pay more on the baht bus is that it only seems to happen in tourist areas.

Suburban Bkk - One price for all. (motorbike and sorng tao)

Countryside likewise.

Next some will argue that since farang have more money we should expect to pay double next time I decide to eat at Maccas or KFC.

What a load of <deleted>!

One service - one price. (Sounds like that OTOP jingle!)

Soundman.

[wpcoe]

I have lived in the Pattaya area (Jomtien) for over two years and do not own a car or motorbike, though once or twice a year I will rent a motorbike for a week for kicks. So, I rely on public transportation.

The B20 Red/Green/Yellow buses were a nice thought, but a horrible execution. No predictable schedule, only go one direction (a clockwise circle around the city). They erected bus stops with large illuminated signs on both sides of the street, but the bus never goes down the one side ... how much sense does *that* make?

That leaves moto-sai taxis and baht buses. Moto-sai are fine for short distances. Moto-sai taxis also have dual pricing for Thai vs farang. Carrying grocery bags and other bulky items home from Tesco doesn't really work on a moto-sai.

The baht buses are fine for where they go, but there is so much of the city the DON'T cover. Try getting a baht bus on Third Road. Try getting a baht bus on Thepprasit Road. Try getting a baht bus in East Pattaya (the "other side" of Sukhumvit). Try to get a baht bus from Carrefour on Pattaya Klang to Jomtien.

I live on a soi about 1km from Jomtien Beach Road, and the moto-sai taxis who wait outside my condo disappear at sunset. So, if I want to go out after dusk, I risk a 12 minute walk down a somewhat lonely soi. It would be nice if a baht bus would come by every 15 minutes, but probably not in my lifetime. As far as I know there is no number to call for a taxi to pick me up on demand, like the 1661 phone number in Bangkok, right? (If there is, I would greatly appreciate being enlightened. Even if the starting rate is B100 for a taxi, it's better than walking along the road at night.)

So many people see the endless parade of empty baht buses doing the tourist route circling Second Road and Beach Road but they don't realize how much of the city is without coverage.

There definitely is a need for SOME sort of public transport to SUPPLEMENT the baht buses. Problem is, with the reputation the baht buses have now, any attempt to supplement their routes could well REPLACE the baht buses, and the "mafia" is only too well aware of that.

As you may have noticed, dual-pricing is not a major concern of mine. I have other issues with the baht-bus near-monoply. (Not a true monoply due to those strange Green/Red/Yellow buses and moto-sai taxis.)

[ZZZ]

I'm very surprised you don't see any enterprising BB drivers starting to run different lines. One that should pay off would be to run between the Dongtan police box on Jomtien beach and Tesco Lotus on Sukhumvit via Tepprasit, I'm sure a couple of BB could run this line full most of the time. There are probably plenty of other lines that would pay more than running empty around Beach Rd and Second Rd.

[Jingthing]

I'm very surprised you don't see any enterprising BB drivers starting to run different lines. One that should pay off would be to run between the Dongtan police box on Jomtien beach and Tesco Lotus on Sukhumvit via Tepprasit, I'm sure a couple of BB could run this line full most of the time. There are probably plenty of other lines that would pay more than running empty around Beach Rd and Second Rd.

There are buses running this route (well actually Tepprasit and Thapraya to Tesco, not from Dongtan) at least during the day. Never tried at night. They seem to come every 10 minutes or so, sometimes no wait and sometimes a wait of 30 minutes. Seems to be more frequent later afternoon as lots of kids ride it then. They don't usually run full but they aren't empty either. Also, what about 3rd road? I pay 10 baht for the route, not sure what Thais pay because this is an oddball route.

Edited September 11, 2007 by Jingthing

[MELATONIN]

I think there was a greater exchange then the OP let on,

Being chased down over 5b and your life threatened ?

Maybe the driver reached a point where he wasn't going to take anymore disrespect and abuse from this cheap farang and unloaded.

Tiered pricing is nothing new,

Respect is earned. 90 percent of the vermin who drive these buses deserve neither respect nor an inflated fare for the service provided. How far some of you will go to justify racism, overpricing and rudeness not only amazes me but it galls me nonetheless.

Shame on you.

[tropo]

I have lived in the Pattaya area (Jomtien) for over two years and do not own a car or motorbike, though once or twice a year I will rent a motorbike for a week for kicks. So, I rely on public transportation.

Considering the low cost of renting a motorbike and the fact you enjoy them, why bother with public transportation at all?

[Daewoo]

Based on wealth appearance :-)

There is no social security in Thailand, there is no office in charge of handing out little cards to age pensioners, disablity pensioners, proof af age cards (for minors), single mothers pension cards, unempolyment benefit cards, veterans cards, or any of the other ways that public transport providers in the West use to identify who is eligible for a cheaper rate.

Instead they use the only thing available to them to select who is eligible to recieve a lower rate, their eyes...

The see the non-thai who as paid 15,000 bus fares to come to fly to their country as able to afford to pay more...

They see the non-thai who regularly pays 162 fares to have sex with their countries young women as able to pay more...

They see the non-thai who spends all the fares they recieve in a day on a nights beer tab as able to afford to pay more...

They see the non-thai who has spent all the fares they recieve in a week on a pair of shoes as able to afford to pay more...

BECAUSE YOU CAN AFFORD TO PAY MORE...

how about this option, go back to farrang land, and pay 10 times as much for the sex because the girl ISN'T THAI and you aren't in Thailand... or give up all your money and live on the earnings of the Baht Bus driver...

It isn't racism, it is the market system at work...

end rant,

Daewoo

[luckyluke]

There is ......................................

It isn't racism, it is the market system at work...

end rant,

Daewoo

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[Jingthing]

BECAUSE YOU CAN AFFORD TO PAY MORE...

It is racism to see all of these things based on your skin color, and then treat you DIFFERENTLY based on your skin color. One of the primary definitions of racism is different treatment based on race. I have proved my case. Case closed.

Edited September 11, 2007 by Jingthing

[Daewoo]

One of the primary definitions of racism is different treatment based on race.

No, it is discrimination based upon race, you aren't being discriminated against, you are being asked to pay an wealth approapriate fare... how about going back to farangland where you are never treated any differently to your countrymen, by anyone??? didn't think so...

I have proved my case. Case closed.

I beg to differ...

Cheers,

Daewoo

[Furbie]

Based on wealth appearance :-)

So by your logic, every service in the world should be based upon your appearance? People who present themselves better should pay more, and people who look like scum should pay less?

Taking this to it's logical conslusion; most Westerners in Pattaya should be charged 4 baht, certainly not 10.

[Furbie]

Based on wealth appearance :-)

There is no social security in Thailand, there is no office in charge of handing out little cards to age pensioners, disablity pensioners, proof af age cards (for minors), single mothers pension cards, unempolyment benefit cards, veterans cards, or any of the other ways that public transport providers in the West use to identify who is eligible for a cheaper rate.

Instead they use the only thing available to them to select who is eligible to recieve a lower rate, their eyes...

The see the non-thai who as paid 15,000 bus fares to come to fly to their country as able to afford to pay more...

They see the non-thai who regularly pays 162 fares to have sex with their countries young women as able to pay more...

They see the non-thai who spends all the fares they recieve in a day on a nights beer tab as able to afford to pay more...

They see the non-thai who has spent all the fares they recieve in a week on a pair of shoes as able to afford to pay more...

BECAUSE YOU CAN AFFORD TO PAY MORE...

how about this option, go back to farrang land, and pay 10 times as much for the sex because the girl ISN'T THAI and you aren't in Thailand... or give up all your money and live on the earnings of the Baht Bus driver...

It isn't racism, it is the market system at work...

end rant,

Daewoo

How can it be the market system if they keep out competition through violence? Taxi drivers even picking up a passenger in Pattaya are extorted and threatened with violence - that is not the market system, that is a monopoly based on crimial activities to keep it in place.

[Ulysses G.]

Based on wealth appearance :-)

So by your logic, every service in the world should be based upon your appearance? People who present themselves better should pay more, and people who look like scum should pay less?

Taking this to it's logical conslusion; most Westerners in Pattaya should be charged 4 baht, certainly not 10.

I would only have to pay TWO baht!

[onzestan]

Thai person average weight approx 50 kilos.

Farang person anywhere from 80 to .... kilos

That's the reason of the price difference IMHO.

Cheers

onzestan

[mrbojangles]

Thai person average weight approx 50 kilos.

Farang person anywhere from 80 to .... kilos

That's the reason of the price difference IMHO.

Cheers

onzestan

And the reason for the Japanese tourist paying the same as Farang is what?

I felt a bit flush last night and gave 20 baht. I hope you all don't want to hang me for setting a presidence

[Daewoo]

How can it be the market system if they keep out competition through violence? Taxi drivers even picking up a passenger in Pattaya are extorted and threatened with violence - that is not the market system, that is a monopoly based on crimial activities to keep it in place.

Any other mafia group could come in and set up a competing business if they were willing to fight for it... I didn't say it was a perfect or text-book example...

I still think that this form of pricing is completely legit, and if it gets up your nose you can vote with your feet (either from Jomtien to Pataya, or to Suvarnabhumi)...

[onzestan]

And the reason for the Japanese tourist paying the same as Farang is what?

I have absolutely no idea how much an average Japanese weighs.

Maybe their wallets are heavier ?

cheers

onzestan

[wpcoe]

Considering the low cost of renting a motorbike and the fact you enjoy them, why bother with public transportation at all?

Rain. Shopping and buying items can't conveniently carry on bike. Going out in the evening (or even for lunch) and enjoying alcohol. Dealing with the various levels of driving skills of fellow drivers. In particular, not liking to drive in the congestion within the city. (Most of my "fun" on rentals is heading out of town and into the countryside.) Probably more reasons, but those pop out to me right now.

[wpcoe]

I'm very surprised you don't see any enterprising BB drivers starting to run different lines. One that should pay off would be to run between the Dongtan police box on Jomtien beach and Tesco Lotus on Sukhumvit via Tepprasit, I'm sure a couple of BB could run this line full most of the time. There are probably plenty of other lines that would pay more than running empty around Beach Rd and Second Rd.

There are buses running this route (well actually Tepprasit and Thapraya to Tesco, not from Dongtan) at least during the day. Never tried at night. They seem to come every 10 minutes or so, sometimes no wait and sometimes a wait of 30 minutes. Seems to be more frequent later afternoon as lots of kids ride it then. They don't usually run full but they aren't empty either. Also, what about 3rd road? I pay 10 baht for the route, not sure what Thais pay because this is an oddball route.

Is that a new service on Thepprasit? Two years ago when I was doing a condo renovation and frequented shops along Thepprasit there were no baht buses. One time I started walking along Thepprasit from Tesco and walked the entire distance to Thappraya (whew!) and not a single baht bus passed me. Prior to that I had waited for more than 30 minutes in front of a curtain shop for a baht bus, and finally gave up and took a moto-sai taxi. Maybe it's like those Red/Green/Yellow buses ... no concept of a schedule at all?

I used to walk to Third Road from Carrefour if I only had a few bags. Sometimes lucky to get a bus right away, other times waited over 30 minutes.

[Jingthing]

s that a new service on Thepprasit?

Well I have used it for a few years. I just use that route every month or so but have never had to walk. I don't know if its official or not, and also at least half the trucks are charters and won't stop for you.

Edited September 12, 2007 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

No, it is discrimination based upon race

Yes, and that defines racism. Thanks for that fine point.

discrimination

dis·crim·i·na·tion

noun

Definition:

1. treating people differently through prejudice:

***

Look folks, please just give up trying to say this baht bus pricing isn't a form of racism. They look at your race and they treat you differently based on their racial determination. There is no way to logically prove this isn't racism. Instead, why not amuse us with arguments about why this particular manifestation of racism is justifiable, even desirable. Good luck with that!

The core of my point is pay up, they are a mafia, they might be break your legs if you don't pay so your principles are worthless, but please, please do not CHEERLEAD for racist thugs.

Edited September 12, 2007 by Jingthing

[threelegcowboy]

Some thoughts are...

Price is still cheap and I do see some kind of price notice on rear window of most baht buses. The drivers are mixed from good service to overall bad service. The recent attention in the media about baht bus rep may help. You look at other places like Samui to find out how bad it can get.

Get on the bus going the direction you want and when they are going the wrong way get off and pay 10B. Get on another going your direction and pay another 10B. Try going for a joy ride like I have done. They make all kind of turns and you still stay on! They pull over and ask where you go and you say anywhere. They then say we go home you get off. Pay 10B.

There are to many BB on the road and no regulation as to when they drive. I was under the assumtion that the WHITE strip down the side means that bus has access to BEACH rd.

I guess we could start logging baht bus numbers to find out who is overcharging. This might not be 100% as each bus may have several drivers? If we had a list and could quickly sort out if to board or not. We could then tell the driver to drive on and take the next bus.

I hope logging bus numbers on this board is not some kind of violation of forum rules?

[MELATONIN]

Some thoughts are...

Price is still cheap and I do see some kind of price notice on rear window of most baht buses. The drivers are mixed from good service to overall bad service. The recent attention in the media about baht bus rep may help. You look at other places like Samui to find out how bad it can get.

Get on the bus going the direction you want and when they are going the wrong way get off and pay 10B. Get on another going your direction and pay another 10B. Try going for a joy ride like I have done. They make all kind of turns and you still stay on! They pull over and ask where you go and you say anywhere. They then say we go home you get off. Pay 10B.

There are to many BB on the road and no regulation as to when they drive. I was under the assumtion that the WHITE strip down the side means that bus has access to BEACH rd.

I guess we could start logging baht bus numbers to find out who is overcharging. This might not be 100% as each bus may have several drivers? If we had a list and could quickly sort out if to board or not. We could then tell the driver to drive on and take the next bus.

I hope logging bus numbers on this board is not some kind of violation of forum rules?

You're kidding, right? Please tell me you don't really believe what you wrote above. You an assume 99 percent of the Baht Bus Drivers are criminal in nature. You can assume that 99 percent of them will gladly overcharge you.

Don't waste your time logging numbers of criminals - log the few numbers of the good ones.

[ZZZ]

I'm very surprised you don't see any enterprising BB drivers starting to run different lines. One that should pay off would be to run between the Dongtan police box on Jomtien beach and Tesco Lotus on Sukhumvit via Tepprasit, I'm sure a couple of BB could run this line full most of the time. There are probably plenty of other lines that would pay more than running empty around Beach Rd and Second Rd.

There are buses running this route (well actually Tepprasit and Thapraya to Tesco, not from Dongtan) at least during the day. Never tried at night. They seem to come every 10 minutes or so, sometimes no wait and sometimes a wait of 30 minutes. Seems to be more frequent later afternoon as lots of kids ride it then. They don't usually run full but they aren't empty either. Also, what about 3rd road? I pay 10 baht for the route, not sure what Thais pay because this is an oddball route.

Is that a new service on Thepprasit? Two years ago when I was doing a condo renovation and frequented shops along Thepprasit there were no baht buses. One time I started walking along Thepprasit from Tesco and walked the entire distance to Thappraya (whew!) and not a single baht bus passed me. Prior to that I had waited for more than 30 minutes in front of a curtain shop for a baht bus, and finally gave up and took a moto-sai taxi. Maybe it's like those Red/Green/Yellow buses ... no concept of a schedule at all?

I used to walk to Third Road from Carrefour if I only had a few bags. Sometimes lucky to get a bus right away, other times waited over 30 minutes.

Same here, I have spent a lot of time along Thepprasit Rd and only seen the odd BB every hour, usually chartered by people going to the go cart track.

What they need is a few clearly marked BB's going these odd routes. I would happily pay 20Baht if this service was available on a regular basis.