Building House In Issan

[Joe Walshe]

Pity this Post isn'nt titled 'Building energy efficient homes' or similar.

I'm an Architect/builder here in Ireland where admittedly we try to keep the heat in the house.

I gave much thought to comfort and function over form for our second house in Isarn and have decided to ;

- Plant as many trees as possible around house for shade and natural cooling effect.

- Large roof overhangs so wall never get direct sunlight.

- Grass and otgher vegetation around house to minimise refelctive heat.

- Bubble foil insulation under roof to reflect solar radiation back to roof.

- High ceilings with openings at high level to encourgae natural ventilation.

- Ponds around house to create breeze.

I personally do not like Air con as I feel it's not good for health to go from hot to cold.

I will, however, build cavity wall study with no windows. Cavity insulated. This is for security as well as keeping heat out. Study to be air conned.

Soalr panels for water - home made.

Would be reluctant to use bio diesel for anything as I have heard form others that it attracts rodents.

[Farma]

With high ceilings and natural ventilation has anyone looked into DIY insect screens?

We have some windows with pre fitted screens but need to make some for the doors and a couple of smaller windows. It will allow a cool breeze through the house and stop the swarms of mossies and bugs.

There’s a company making the DIY insect screen components in Bangkok. Has anyone found these readily available in the Ubon area? Wasuda maybe?

[soundman]

Would be reluctant to use bio diesel for anything as I have heard form others that it attracts rodents.

Only if you don't keep the preperation area clean. The rodents (and dogs) are attracted to raw vegetable oils & animal fats used to make the bio diesel.

Finished bio is about as likely to attract rodents as any other fuel.

Great fuel & realatively easy to make. Finished cost (if you are buying all the raw materials) is about 21 - 25B per litre.

Cheers,

Soundman.

[chownah]

What about wood fired boilers and steam engines?

[Bpraim1]

This is getting crazy,

Time to pull out the Delorean.

[jay-uk]

.

[Bicko]

.

hey what did you say Jay?

[Thaddeus]

.

hey what did you say Jay?

methinks it had summin to do wid th' black spot Bicko me lad .... garrrrr.... watch ye back .... ahh harrr

(although it was a very small one, not much to worry about really)

[jay-uk]

No Thad... I'm no pirate, just typed that fast that I managed to finish the sentence with a full stop before I even started. He He.... I was going to contribute something meaningful earlier in the day and then thought better of it !

Just joining the thread to keep upto date with all you house building farangs in Isaan. I built a bungalow a few years back in Ubon with the help of family/in-laws and like to keep up to speed with anyone who has done the same. All the best.

Cheers,

Jay

Edited September 10, 2007 by jay-uk

[harry]

Harry,

I'm thinking along the same lines. i.e.

Solar water heating,

Solar PV's (to run the A/C? & fridge,etc).

Small back-up generator (preferably deisel to run on cooking oil)

Heat pump rejecting heat to the pond - 8m deep (not sure if the fish would like it too much though..?)

Have you come across any info or suppliers in Thailand?

Cheers,

S

No, my plans got on a hold after my divorce where i give the 50 rai piece of land to my wife.

Another point I would like to make about this discussion:

It is really a pity that this info, because of being a discussion and statements, becomes scattered and difficultly accessible.

Maybe:

1. there is a member who want to compile and summarize it into one doc? (like someone did for permanent resident case)

2. It would also be a challenge for guys from thaivisa to make comprehensive surveys about this and other important subject. (like WIKIpedia-approach/system?)

[Bpraim1]

So after much feed back. I have decided to insulate the whole house.

After a quote of 28,000 for roof and outerwalls of house. I will do it!

I have bought my house from a book, from a new company in Thailand. They import prefab houses from Australia&new Zealand.

92.m2 house and 18m Verandah for 670,000bt. This includes everything right down to septic! Plus 5 years guarntee on home and 10 year on roof.

4-6 week build time. Will be putting house on land late Oct.

www.freshflowservice.com

I'm not advertise'n , Just want people to know there are some new cheaper options to building a brick house!

They can also speak english!!!!!!!! No need to send the old lady.

[incubus]

Harry,

I'm thinking along the same lines. i.e.

Solar water heating,

Solar PV's (to run the A/C? & fridge,etc).

Small back-up generator (preferably deisel to run on cooking oil)

Heat pump rejecting heat to the pond - 8m deep (not sure if the fish would like it too much though..?)

Have you come across any info or suppliers in Thailand?

Cheers,

S

No, my plans got on a hold after my divorce where i give the 50 rai piece of land to my wife.

Another point I would like to make about this discussion:

It is really a pity that this info, because of being a discussion and statements, becomes scattered and difficultly accessible.

Maybe:

1. there is a member who want to compile and summarize it into one doc? (like someone did for permanent resident case)

2. It would also be a challenge for guys from thaivisa to make comprehensive surveys about this and other important subject. (like WIKIpedia-approach/system?)

Very good suggestion. Everything I might want to add to this thread I already posted on http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...140697&st=0.

Incubus

[incubus]

In my planning for building a new, countryside, house I wanted to be as autarchic as possible. {You never know about an worldwide energy crisis, etc. and you can make this into a hobby as well! :-)}

So in addition to earlier suggestions ...

-solar and wind energy ( with generator backup).

-roof cooling by "water leakage" on it.

and

natural circulation of air in the house by:

1. an outside cold air reservoir in the ground with ...

2. outlet, centrally in the house (included in the ground floor concrete)

2. vents on the first floor's roof

Harry,

I'm thinking along the same lines. i.e.

Solar water heating,

Solar PV's (to run the A/C? & fridge,etc).

Small back-up generator (preferably deisel to run on cooking oil)

Heat pump rejecting heat to the pond - 8m deep (not sure if the fish would like it too much though..?)

Have you come across any info or suppliers in Thailand?

Cheers,

S

I know an Aussie company in Surin (Envee Energy) that's manufacturing heat pumps for export market and for large commercial buildings (hospitals, apartment blocks, administrations, etc.), but they can also make smaller units to order. All heat pumps are expensive, though, and if you want one just for cooling your home, you might be better off with just a new A/C unit.

Any info on wind generators out there?

What about PV shingles? There's an American company that makes these (uni-solar.com), who thinks they have Thailand covered, but they don't. Their rep.'s in S'pore and won't give you a straight answer. Opening an office in Bkk later this year(?).

Incubus

Edited September 13, 2007 by incubus

[erikr_]

So after much feed back. I have decided to insulate the whole house.

After a quote of 28,000 for roof and outerwalls of house. I will do it!

I have bought my house from a book, from a new company in Thailand. They import prefab houses from Australia&new Zealand.

92.m2 house and 18m Verandah for 670,000bt. This includes everything right down to septic! Plus 5 years guarntee on home and 10 year on roof.

4-6 week build time. Will be putting house on land late Oct.

www.freshflowservice.com

I'm not advertise'n , Just want people to know there are some new cheaper options to building a brick house!

They can also speak english!!!!!!!! No need to send the old lady.

interesting. where are you building?

[Bpraim1]

Srisaket, Amphur Khun Han

Anyone is welcome to take a look when completed or during build

[fishhooks]

Would welcome any info or advice from anyone who has built or currently building in the Thepsahtit (Chiayaphum) vicinity, re a good starting point to consider if one chooses to go ahead with a house in a village.

Much good info already here, but mainly from those already established and I was wondering if anyone has been doing something in this regard recently.

I am well into a two year relationship with my wife and as well as wanting to keep some bricks and mortar in Australia, would like to have a house in this area to come and go from at will. I am at the age of being able to get a Retirement Visa and even though happily married, find this a less complex way of dealing with Immigration here, even though requiring a few more bob in the bank.

We already have land and her folks live close-by in another house, but I'm sure they do not have the knowledge or contacts to put me on the 'right track' to do whatever is necessary to get started in what would be a normal "Farang" way of going about things.

Such as finding a reliable building firm in the area, where plans can be considered and "reasonably" costed!......................Is such a thing possible out there in the sticks?

I don't mind if what we end up with is moreover Thai with a mix of both cultures to include what we have been used to, say, in Australia.

I imagine uppermost in the minds of Farangs doing this is to be as sure as 'possible', not to be ripped-off.

Thus, not wanting to ask too much, I am mainly wondering if anyone has done or is doing this type of thing and has advice mainly re getting started.

Unfortunately I have no other foreign friends or contacts in the area.

There is an English guy close-by who is also on the verge of doing something similar and it looked at one stage that we were going to co-operate together, but to my surprise, in these villages there is a very large degree of "one upmanship" between the families, as poor as they are, and if anyone looks like leap-frogging ahead of another family it becomes very competitive and in this case he has withdrawn into his corner on the suspicion that I may be ready first to do something.

Obviously, he has learned the "Thai way" of doing things, quicker than me.

[Diablo Bob]

Great topic……

I am currently in the design process of a house in Buriram. Like so many others I am concerned with the price on energy, so I have been exploring other cooling alternatives.

In my research I ran across some studies which indicated that utilizing the thermal mass of a structure to cool a building could save up to 90% of your cooling bills.

The process will only work in new construction, but basically involves drilling two wells, the upstream well for water supply, the downstream well for discharge. While constructing your floors and walls flexible tubing is placed inside then the concrete is poured (Cavity between brick courses is grouted). The tubes are attached to a manifold which regulates the flow through the different loops.

Water from the well (Constant temperature) is pumped through the loops, reducing the temperature of the thermal mass, consequently reducing the temperature in the room. On a single story structure the cooling tubes are in the ceiling (Hot air rises/cool air drops) and walls (East/West Facing). The heated water is discharged back into the aquifer through the discharge well.

Utilizing in-slab cooling with fans could save you on your utility bills.

[chownah]

Ground water is not constant temperature where I live in the north.

[Diablo Bob]

Ground water is not constant temperature where I live in the north.

Have any hot springs up where you live?

The reason I ask is that in my research I ran across this:

Groundwater temperatures below 10 m (33 ft) are quite stable in a given location relative to surface waters. Temperature is moderated by the thermal mass of the earth, so groundwater tends to have a relatively minor seasonal temperature change. Groundwater varies with latitude, being warmer near the equator and colder away from the equator. In general, the average annual temperature of groundwater is a degree or two (°C) higher than the mean annual air temperature. In addition, groundwater temperature increases 1-5 °C (average about 2.5'C) per 100 m depth (4). Higher increases may be due to local geothermal activity. If the groundwater is in proximity to volcanic activity, then it may be naturally heated by a geothermal source.

http://www.larvalbase.org/water_source/watersource4.htm is the source.

[Diablo Bob]

I should have said "Relatively constant temperature" instead of "Constant temperature"

[Joe Walshe]

Great topic……

I am currently in the design process of a house in Buriram. Like so many others I am concerned with the price on energy, so I have been exploring other cooling alternatives.

In my research I ran across some studies which indicated that utilizing the thermal mass of a structure to cool a building could save up to 90% of your cooling bills.

The process will only work in new construction, but basically involves drilling two wells, the upstream well for water supply, the downstream well for discharge. While constructing your floors and walls flexible tubing is placed inside then the concrete is poured (Cavity between brick courses is grouted). The tubes are attached to a manifold which regulates the flow through the different loops.

Water from the well (Constant temperature) is pumped through the loops, reducing the temperature of the thermal mass, consequently reducing the temperature in the room. On a single story structure the cooling tubes are in the ceiling (Hot air rises/cool air drops) and walls (East/West Facing). The heated water is discharged back into the aquifer through the discharge well.

Utilizing in-slab cooling with fans could save you on your utility bills.

Very interesting cooling idea. Sounds similar to geo thermal heating, used in Cold countries, but in reverse. Is there a Web site from which to get more technical info.? Thanks.Joe

[Joe Walshe]

Diablo,

Just read your post again and it seems to me that water could be pumped from the bottom of a deep pond to cool thermal mass in house ( walls or floor). I don't know what running costs for pump would be but a Thermostat could regulate pump or/and it could be switched off when not in use. I mention the pond as I assume not everyone has well water or easy access to well water.

Joe

[incubus]

Great topic……

I am currently in the design process of a house in Buriram. Like so many others I am concerned with the price on energy, so I have been exploring other cooling alternatives.

In my research I ran across some studies which indicated that utilizing the thermal mass of a structure to cool a building could save up to 90% of your cooling bills.

The process will only work in new construction, but basically involves drilling two wells, the upstream well for water supply, the downstream well for discharge. While constructing your floors and walls flexible tubing is placed inside then the concrete is poured (Cavity between brick courses is grouted). The tubes are attached to a manifold which regulates the flow through the different loops.

Water from the well (Constant temperature) is pumped through the loops, reducing the temperature of the thermal mass, consequently reducing the temperature in the room. On a single story structure the cooling tubes are in the ceiling (Hot air rises/cool air drops) and walls (East/West Facing). The heated water is discharged back into the aquifer through the discharge well.

Utilizing in-slab cooling with fans could save you on your utility bills.

Very interesting cooling idea. Sounds similar to geo thermal heating, used in Cold countries, but in reverse. Is there a Web site from which to get more technical info.? Thanks.Joe

Here's a somewhat technical web site that many of you might find useful : http://www.azsolarcenter.com/design/.html. If you can handle more technical than this, Joe, I can provide that, too.

As far as the logic of saving on your electric bills by installing water piping embedded in your walls, this strikes me as a far-fetched and ill-considered notion. In theory, yes, it works; experiments with such systems have been going on for decades (I can provide web links if you'd like). But economically it's just not viable. Plus, if there's any water leakage inside a house wall, you'll be out of a lot of money to set that right. I think heat exchangers are the way to go if you can afford the heavy initial investment, but you need not look down a well to find a cool source. And there are many design features that can obviate the need for A/C altogether. Here's another good document: passive_cooling.pdf

Incubus

Edited September 16, 2007 by incubus

[Diablo Bob]

Great topic……

I am currently in the design process of a house in Buriram. Like so many others I am concerned with the price on energy, so I have been exploring other cooling alternatives.

In my research I ran across some studies which indicated that utilizing the thermal mass of a structure to cool a building could save up to 90% of your cooling bills.

The process will only work in new construction, but basically involves drilling two wells, the upstream well for water supply, the downstream well for discharge. While constructing your floors and walls flexible tubing is placed inside then the concrete is poured (Cavity between brick courses is grouted). The tubes are attached to a manifold which regulates the flow through the different loops.

Water from the well (Constant temperature) is pumped through the loops, reducing the temperature of the thermal mass, consequently reducing the temperature in the room. On a single story structure the cooling tubes are in the ceiling (Hot air rises/cool air drops) and walls (East/West Facing). The heated water is discharged back into the aquifer through the discharge well.

Utilizing in-slab cooling with fans could save you on your utility bills.

Very interesting cooling idea. Sounds similar to geo thermal heating, used in Cold countries, but in reverse. Is there a Web site from which to get more technical info.? Thanks.Joe

Here's a somewhat technical web site that many of you might find useful : http://www.azsolarcenter.com/design/.html. If you can handle more technical than this, Joe, I can provide that, too.

As far as the logic of saving on your electric bills by installing water piping embedded in your walls, this strikes me as a far-fetched and ill-considered notion. In theory, yes, it works; experiments with such systems have been going on for decades (I can provide web links if you'd like). But economically it's just not viable. Plus, if there's any water leakage inside a house wall, you'll be out of a lot of money to set that right. I think heat exchangers are the way to go if you can afford the heavy initial investment, but you need not look down a well to find a cool source. And there are many design features that can obviate the need for A/C altogether. Here's another good document: passive_cooling.pdf

Incubus

Downloaded and absorbed the passive cooling PDF, unbeknownst to me while drawing my plans, I had already incorporated many of the recomendations in my design.

I agree with some of your assesment on in-slab cooling, most of the failures I have found are of improper application, sub-standard materials used in construction and poor construction techniques. Case studies of structures in Europe and Australia seem to verify the economic viability.

Anyway, I will probably forge forward on my design, and most likely install standard AC units because at the end of the day it is something that the Thai construction companies can do without me introducing technologies which would not only confuse them, but most likely would make my house a case study on what not to do!

It is fun to explore the possibilities and use what is practical, not radical.

[Joe Walshe]

Inctus,

Enjoyed reading 'passive cooling' PDF file. Hope to incorporate some ideas in our next house. We prefer not to have air con as we find we get colds very easily - going from cold roon to hot humid garden.

In one of our houses there is a large tiled concrete water storage area in the bathroom. This bathroom and the adjacent bedroom are cooler because of it.

Good luck with your house Diablo. Would be interested to hear how you get on. I agree, there's wisdom in keeping to tried and tested technology at times. Every house is essentially a prototype and you don't want to be a cmplete guinea pig.

Joe

[incubus]

Inctus,

Enjoyed reading 'passive cooling' PDF file. Hope to incorporate some ideas in our next house. We prefer not to have air con as we find we get colds very easily - going from cold roon to hot humid garden.

In one of our houses there is a large tiled concrete water storage area in the bathroom. This bathroom and the adjacent bedroom are cooler because of it.

Good luck with your house Diablo. Would be interested to hear how you get on. I agree, there's wisdom in keeping to tried and tested technology at times. Every house is essentially a prototype and you don't want to be a cmplete guinea pig.

Joe

It appears that not everyone can access the link I provided earlier. Here is a file copy of the "passive cooling" page: passive_cooling.doc, or see if this link works for you http://www.azsolarcenter.com/design/pas-3.html

Incubus

Edited September 17, 2007 by incubus

[Gary A]

I'm not trying to be a kill joy but I'd bet that finding and running a big enough de-humidifier to keep water from condensing on the floor will eat up your savings. If I were going to air condition a large area, I'd be looking for the super efficient air conditioner with a water cooled condenser.

[kamalabob2]

Keeping a home cool and saving on the monthly payment to the Provincial Electricity Authority is a key concern with our new home. There are many great replies in this post such as Bicko, Joe Walshe, Soundman, and Lickey that are along the lines of what our Architect incorporated in our home plan. I will try to heed Thaddeus advise to sit outside and enjoy the quiet slow paced life in Buriram Province. Our deign is similar to Thedi's good looking home with a ground floor terrace and several balconies on the 2nd floor. I am not sure why someone in Thailand would look at D.I.Y. insect screens as it certainly is possible to get simple to elaborate insect screens at reasonable costs made to your exact sizes and installed within days. We do have aluminum insect screen installed under our 2nd floor Eave Elephant Brand Wood which is one nail space apart. I put a photo of this screen being installed and a close up view of the wood. The design allows air to flow in and out of the attic. I am not sure if we have an attic fan in the building contract, but we seem to have enough electrical junction boxes to accommodate such a fan. The Eaves on the "Two Step Roof Design" are 1.5 wide and the covered terraces on the ground floor are 3 to 3.5 meters wide. I have been assured that the Two Step Roof design is to help with the flow of rain water. We bought 200 rolls of CPAC Ultra Kool installed near the Silver/Grey Cement Roof tiles with a 25 MM minimum air gap between the top of the insulation and bottom side of the roof tile. I purchased a few thousand special screws to hold the insulation in place on the aluminum roof battens. With the 6 rolls of extra Ultra Kool we had the builders insulate one section of the ground floor covered terrace. I'll post photos of the windows we are having fabricated near Bangkok when they are installed. Double Glazed window glass was out of our price range, but 6mm Guardian Green Glass in White Aluminum frames should help keep the home cool. Because of the design of the Eaves and Terraces rain and sun does not directly hit 30% of the windows.

What type of trees have fellow Forum members been happy with that provide shade and do not "shed" like Eucalyptus Tree?

[Bpraim1]

Why not use PU Foam , then you don't have to buy a thousand screws, vapor barrier, 200 rolls of insulation or an attic fan.

Just spray it on and walk away.

Pound for pound is 10 times better then Batt insulation.

[kamalabob2]

I had considered Polyurethane Spray Foam as it is readily available in Thailand form several vendors. Our Architect was concerned about the dangers of Penta-Bde levels and had me look at www.greenguide.com The Ultra Kool and labor was included in the contract price of our home and purchasing a 40,000 screws of good quality cost less than a bar tab or two I've had in a previous life in Phuket. If building a pre-fab home with wall cavities or a dual wall home with an air space I would certainly consider PU for the walls and perhaps the ceiling. Our home seems cool now but the Windows are not installed. We selected 12.5 thick CPAC light weight blocks for exterior walls, 7.5 thick CPAC light weight blocks for interior walls so I am hoping that this will contribute to sound proofing in some manner. I am confident the Ultra kool will not burn as I have seen the construction crew attempt to burn some scrap insulation. I had a brief safety talk with the foreman and I provided plastic bags for proper disposal of the scrap fiberglass. Safety in an area with no vapor recovery systems as Cal Tex Gas Stations and an open fire at the edge of the Buriram Gas Station in the poorly shot photo attached. Safety in how PVC conduit is cut and of course safety boots on workers. Safety is using a tall enough ladder to install wire in a garage.