How Will Thaksin Shinawatra Be Remembered ?

[Grover]

But.................if Thaksin had come up with a plan that alllowed Farangs to own thier own property, you would all have fallen head over heels in love with him.

He did!.... His personal baby, the Thai Elite Card, promised that as one of its main selling points.

How will he be remembered? How far in the distant future are we going? I had a group of students (COLLEGE STUDENTS) in the USA that did not know who Adolf Hitler was. Incredible but true.

My guess is that he and his memory will fade away as time goes by.............like most of us.

It depends who writes the history books. Historically its been the winners.

[Maigo6]

But.................if Thaksin had come up with a plan that alllowed Farangs to own thier own property, you would all have fallen head over heels in love with him.

He did!.... His personal baby, the Thai Elite Card, promised that as one of its main selling points.

That's true John, I just wished he'd made it a little less Elite.

100,000 Baht instead of 1 Million.

[Ricardo]

But.................if Thaksin had come up with a plan that alllowed Farangs to own thier own property, you would all have fallen head over heels in love with him.

He did!.... His personal baby, the Thai Elite Card, promised that as one of its main selling points.

That's true John, I just wished he'd made it a little less Elite.

100,000 Baht instead of 1 Million.

Agreed, I would gladly pay a one-off contribution of 100,000 Baht to Thailand, for the rights to own land here, and to by-pass the annual visa-extension visit to Immigration. Forget about the unlimited golf or massages, the chauffeured-limousine from the airport, and other aspects which would appeal to DL's cronies, who care about face, more than I do.

But the Elite card very-rapidly failed-to-deliver on the land rights, which really sums up Thaksin, great on the promises but fails to deliver in the end.

I suspect that he will be remembered as a businessman, who only succeeded after he learned to pull the political strings to gain government contracts and monopolies, and whose vision for Thai politics had a promising start, building a dominant coallition of interests, but later veered off-the-tracks away from democracy or freedom and towards cronyism & corruption.

A missed opportunity, in other words.

[ColPyat]

The only positive 'outlook' I see is the silent majority of Thailand, still silent and whispering.

Yes, absolutely.

Thaksin may have made many bad mistakes, but the most important thing he has done (maybe unintentionally) is actually creating a feeling under the population that they have rights within a democracy.

[ColPyat]

Colpyat,

you have recently started mentioning "death squads" in almost every Thaksin related thread and I've just counted 11 posts of yours mentioning "death squads" where I counted 24 times the words "death squads". This fixation is relying on ONE single news article so far.

Are you trying to somehow mess up the world's search engines with the Southern insurgency?

Well, yeah, wouldn't be so bad when more people get interested what is going on down there.

I am not relying just on one article. Unfortunately this is the only article available, so far. But i am not going to make the same mistake anymore here to post things that i know to be true without having some verifiable source to back it up, as i do not enjoy having the piss taken out for page after page and be portrayed as some sort of Walter Mitty figure. There is a lot more going on, but i will wait until this knowledge reached the media before i comment upon.

For many people Farang that are somewhat interested in Thai politics the death squads during the drug war and other Human Rights violations under Thaksin's premiership is what he should be remembered for. But came to believe that this would have happened anyhow. Proof is, that the same sort of strategies are employed today as well.

[Old Man River]

But i am not going to make the same mistake anymore here to post things that i know to be true without having some verifiable source to back it up, as i do not enjoy having the piss taken out for page after page and be portrayed as some sort of Walter Mitty figure. There is a lot more going on, but i will wait until this knowledge reached the media before i comment upon.

Without commenting specifically on the topic being discussed, in general I learned early on not to provide information on TV that can't be verified by something in the media. Hence, inside knowledge is worthless here. I find this a bit funny since I was always taught not to believe everything I read. It seems the opposite here.

[Plus]

I think the key is not to "provide" but not to "rely", as in

"I learned not to rely on information on TV that can't be verified".

I don't remember anyone being slagged off for posting "insider" information. People usually take it as it is - personal accounts that might or might not be true.

It's not the same as "check those mansions and limousines junta members bought for themselves".

[Prakanong]

But.................if Thaksin had come up with a plan that alllowed Farangs to own thier own property, you would all have fallen head over heels in love with him.

He did!.... His personal baby, the Thai Elite Card, promised that as one of its main selling points.

How will he be remembered? How far in the distant future are we going? I had a group of students (COLLEGE STUDENTS) in the USA that did not know who Adolf Hitler was. Incredible but true.

My guess is that he and his memory will fade away as time goes by.............like most of us.

It depends who writes the history books. Historically its been the winners.

Mostly yes but revisionist historians do come along later - in a country like Thailand of course history and what is told is very restriced.

Around the turn of the 19th C in the US it was the southern revision historians that were in the ascendency I beleive.

[Prakanong]

The only positive 'outlook' I see is the silent majority of Thailand, still silent and whispering.

Yes, absolutely.

Thaksin may have made many bad mistakes, but the most important thing he has done (maybe unintentionally) is actually creating a feeling under the population that they have rights within a democracy.

If he accidently awakened this feeling of democracy in the minds of much of Thailand then all for the good - I hope so.

[ColPyat]

Without commenting specifically on the topic being discussed, in general I learned early on not to provide information on TV that can't be verified by something in the media. Hence, inside knowledge is worthless here. I find this a bit funny since I was always taught not to believe everything I read. It seems the opposite here.

Sad, isn't it.

[ColPyat]

I don't remember anyone being slagged off for posting "insider" information.

Not trying to sway away from the thread topic - i would just advice you to have a read through the Por Teck Tueng thread a year or so ago. That was when i learned my lesson here.

[ColPyat]

The only positive 'outlook' I see is the silent majority of Thailand, still silent and whispering.

Yes, absolutely.

Thaksin may have made many bad mistakes, but the most important thing he has done (maybe unintentionally) is actually creating a feeling under the population that they have rights within a democracy.

If he accidently awakened this feeling of democracy in the minds of much of Thailand then all for the good - I hope so.

It's of course not what one could consider a real understanding of democracy, but it is a beginning. Evidence is the 43% 'No' vote during the referendum - even though huge state propaganda and harassment a much higher percentage of the people voted against the constitution, against all expectations and efforts of the military.

[lannarebirth]

But i am not going to make the same mistake anymore here to post things that i know to be true without having some verifiable source to back it up, as i do not enjoy having the piss taken out for page after page and be portrayed as some sort of Walter Mitty figure. There is a lot more going on, but i will wait until this knowledge reached the media before i comment upon.

Without commenting specifically on the topic being discussed, in general I learned early on not to provide information on TV that can't be verified by something in the media. Hence, inside knowledge is worthless here. I find this a bit funny since I was always taught not to believe everything I read. It seems the opposite here.

It is a strange phenomenon, that's for sure. In the places we come from there is all kinds of classified information that the vast majority of people are never privy to. Here, if you know anyone at all, you are no more than one or two degrees of separation from the people who make the decisions that run this country. Not one of them can keep their mouth shut and information that would be "classified" anywhere else, is widely known. It's a shame we can't talk about most of it, and that which we can, no one seems to want to.

[soundman]

But i am not going to make the same mistake anymore here to post things that i know to be true without having some verifiable source to back it up, as i do not enjoy having the piss taken out for page after page and be portrayed as some sort of Walter Mitty figure. There is a lot more going on, but i will wait until this knowledge reached the media before i comment upon.

Without commenting specifically on the topic being discussed, in general I learned early on not to provide information on TV that can't be verified by something in the media. Hence, inside knowledge is worthless here. I find this a bit funny since I was always taught not to believe everything I read. It seems the opposite here.

It is a strange phenomenon, that's for sure. In the places we come from there is all kinds of classified information that the vast majority of people are never privy to. Here, if you know anyone at all, you are no more than one or two degrees of separation from the people who make the decisions that run this country. Not one of them can keep their mouth shut and information that would be "classified" anywhere else, is widely known. It's a shame we can't talk about most of it, and that which we can, no one seems to want to.

Yeah like one of Thaksin's former security guards, who was the boyfriend of a family member told us Thaksin was going around saying "******** * ***** *** ****** ******* ** ****!".

Makes the stuff on television seem like bed time stories for children.

[lannarebirth]

But i am not going to make the same mistake anymore here to post things that i know to be true without having some verifiable source to back it up, as i do not enjoy having the piss taken out for page after page and be portrayed as some sort of Walter Mitty figure. There is a lot more going on, but i will wait until this knowledge reached the media before i comment upon.

Without commenting specifically on the topic being discussed, in general I learned early on not to provide information on TV that can't be verified by something in the media. Hence, inside knowledge is worthless here. I find this a bit funny since I was always taught not to believe everything I read. It seems the opposite here.

It is a strange phenomenon, that's for sure. In the places we come from there is all kinds of classified information that the vast majority of people are never privy to. Here, if you know anyone at all, you are no more than one or two degrees of separation from the people who make the decisions that run this country. Not one of them can keep their mouth shut and information that would be "classified" anywhere else, is widely known. It's a shame we can't talk about most of it, and that which we can, no one seems to want to.

Yeah like one of Thaksin's former security guards, who was the boyfriend of a family member told us Thaksin was going around saying "******** * ***** *** ****** ******* ** ****!".

Makes the stuff on television seem like bed time stories for children.

My examples would be considerably further up the chain than that.

I can see how it could be abused and also lead to misinformation, but so often it's the case here, it seems like there are two or more "realities". The one everyone is talking about, judging, commenting on; and the one you know to be true (or truer anyway), which is different than what everyone seems to believe. Do you ever notice that? Or am I the only one?

[LaoPo]

Yeah like one of Thaksin's former security guards, who was the boyfriend of a family member told us Thaksin was going around saying "******** * ***** *** ****** ******* ** ****!".

Makes the stuff on television seem like bed time stories for children.

It's hard to believe he really said that...

LaoPo

[soundman]

But i am not going to make the same mistake anymore here to post things that i know to be true without having some verifiable source to back it up, as i do not enjoy having the piss taken out for page after page and be portrayed as some sort of Walter Mitty figure. There is a lot more going on, but i will wait until this knowledge reached the media before i comment upon.

Without commenting specifically on the topic being discussed, in general I learned early on not to provide information on TV that can't be verified by something in the media. Hence, inside knowledge is worthless here. I find this a bit funny since I was always taught not to believe everything I read. It seems the opposite here.

It is a strange phenomenon, that's for sure. In the places we come from there is all kinds of classified information that the vast majority of people are never privy to. Here, if you know anyone at all, you are no more than one or two degrees of separation from the people who make the decisions that run this country. Not one of them can keep their mouth shut and information that would be "classified" anywhere else, is widely known. It's a shame we can't talk about most of it, and that which we can, no one seems to want to.

Yeah like one of Thaksin's former security guards, who was the boyfriend of a family member told us Thaksin was going around saying "******** * ***** *** ****** ******* ** ****!".

Makes the stuff on television seem like bed time stories for children.

My examples would be considerably further up the chain than that.

I can see how it could be abused and also lead to misinformation, but so often it's the case here, it seems like there are two or more "realities". The one everyone is talking about, judging, commenting on; and the one you know to be true (or truer anyway), which is different than what everyone seems to believe. Do you ever notice that? Or am I the only one?

I think a fair few of us have heard the two or three big "rumours" going around. One of them is plainly obvious.

Although I posted the "***** ****!" in jest, lets just get back to the "up the chain thing". Can't get much higher than repeated (confidential) quotes straight from the horses mouth in 2004. Just pointing out the "two degrees of seperation" - From PM to farang nobody in one step......

Cheers.

[samran]

how will he be remembered?

He won't. The thai electorate is notouriously fickle. Just look at the old war horses that are rolling themselves out now for the next election.

The idea that you stuff up in politics and you are unelectable (just about) is the norm in the west. Here, people forget too easily allowing the people responsible for the 1997 crash (chavalit, banharn and co) to make comeback, after comeback.

It won't be a matter of Thaksin who? It will be a case of, yeah he is another politican and at some stage he'll be a PM again.

[mark100]

how will he be remembered?

He won't. The thai electorate is notouriously fickle. Just look at the old war horses that are rolling themselves out now for the next election.

The idea that you stuff up in politics and you are unelectable (just about) is the norm in the west. Here, people forget too easily allowing the people responsible for the 1997 crash (chavalit, banharn and co) to make comeback, after comeback.

It won't be a matter of Thaksin who? It will be a case of, yeah he is another politican and at some stage he'll be a PM again.

l would agree at some stage in the future l think he will be PM again.

[LinkPopularity]

I suggest you have a read through this thread and find out why he has pissed farangs off. Reasons are given.

If he wasn't in power when I first came here, I wouldn't be here.

Not all farang are brain washed lefties !

[cdnvic]

Not all farang are brain washed lefties !

Yeah, some are brainwashed righties.

The majority however sit somewhere in the middle and think that both the above are just silly <deleted>.

[LinkPopularity]

Not all farang are brain washed lefties !

Yeah, some are brainwashed righties.

The majority however sit somewhere in the middle and think that both the above are just silly <deleted>.

the weak element od democrazy is the fact that the majority is stupid! but its still better then a military dictatorship.

I'm not part of the majority, I'm not a rightie either, I'm one of those very rare intelligent, well balanced and educated personalities, who don't need to insult(<deleted>) other people to make an argument

WWII was caused by extreme right, now we have extreme left screwing up the world and the majority is again too stupid to see it !

and you know what ... it makes me angry !

[cdnvic]

I'm not part of the majority, I'm not a rightie either, I'm one of those very rare intelligent, well balanced and educated personalities, who don't need to insult(<deleted>) other people to make an argument

Often an insult is just an accurate description that the subject would rather you not have pointed out.

[LaoPo]

how will he be remembered?

He won't. The thai electorate is notouriously fickle. Just look at the old war horses that are rolling themselves out now for the next election.

The idea that you stuff up in politics and you are unelectable (just about) is the norm in the west. Here, people forget too easily allowing the people responsible for the 1997 crash (chavalit, banharn and co) to make comeback, after comeback.

It won't be a matter of Thaksin who? It will be a case of, yeah he is another politician and at some stage he'll be a PM again.

Maybe you're nearer to the 'future' than many of us would even imagine to consider as a possibility...

Laopo

[Suszzy]

whether he like it or not.

Dr Thaksin's will go down in history as a tycoon PM with corruption and

abuse of power including extrajudicial killing during his time in office.

still, poor thais love him and i think they would have him back tomorrow if they could!

given it time.. those bad memory about him will fade away...fast!!

[Plus]

the weak element od democrazy is the fact that the majority is stupid! but its still better then a military dictatorship.

You think the "stupid majority" will run things any different than dicatorships?

What will happen is that some really unsavoury elements learn how to manipulate the stupid majority to suit their own agenda, and then rely on this majority to wipe out any opposition.

Exactly what Thaksin did to the country, or what communists did in China/USSR. Or look at North Korea - there you have a dear leader loved by a "stupid majority".

[Grover]

Not all farang are brain washed lefties !

Yeah, some are brainwashed righties.

The majority however sit somewhere in the middle and think that both the above are just silly <deleted>.

the weak element od democrazy is the fact that the majority is stupid!

hence the need for educating the masses.

[LaoPo]

Exactly what Thaksin did to the country, or what communists did in China/USSR. Or look at North Korea - there you have a dear leader loved by a "stupid majority".

Would you like to have a list of leaders, rulers and countries, past and present...in the East, West, Europe, Africa, America, South America who followed their leaders...?

Don't call the 'people' in general "stupid majority"; you might be surrounded by them, depending where you're from...

I won't give you that list, it's all on Google.

LaoPo

[Plus]

That's a question to LinkPopularity.

[blaze]

Not all farang are brain washed lefties !

Yeah, some are brainwashed righties.

The majority however sit somewhere in the middle and think that both the above are just silly <deleted>.

the weak element od democrazy is the fact that the majority is stupid!

hence the need for educating the masses.

Well- that's what the evangelical movement is all about- educating the unwashed. Not sure I care for it. Maybe it would be more honest to say- 'educating the masses' to believe what I believe?

The 'professional intelligencia' in many countries is left liberal. Do they need to be educated too? Many of them ARE educators. Like it or not.