I Want To Open A Bar In Thailand And Move To Live Downthere!

[alexxx]

to whom it may concern,

my name is alex and i am 22 years old. i am a romanian national living in denmark. i am about to graduate as an Electronics and Computer Engineering Engineer and am planning to open a business in thailand together with 3 of my other friends. we are all between 21 and 27 and on of them is a thai national living in denmark (went to university together, so i know him for 3 years now) and the other 2 are danish. my friends and i want to open a bar in thailand with the opening dat in about 1 yr and ½ or 2 yrs. not a gogo bar but a proper bar with drinks and animators (dancing girls) at best. we have an unique thing to bring to the business but i do not feel comfortable sharing this with the public since i am not sure of your confidentiality.

the reason for which i am writing is to ask for information regarding the steps that need to be followed to open a bar in thailand. the 4 of us want to invest about 7 000 000 BHT. the location of the bar is yet to be discussed but we are considering 4 variants: bangkok, pattaya, phuket and koh samui.

the money we want to invest we will get through a bank loan. it is obvious that a lot of details have to be covered, everything from residence and working visas to practical things such as running the business on an every day basis.

i need advice on what to put my focus on, advice if it is a good idea to invest money in this line of business and advice if this business can provide 4 ppl with a modest living but over the average (according to thai standards) in thailand.

we have no experience with opening a business but are eager to learn and are dedicated to the cause. except my thai friend only one of us has been to thailand twice while i have been there for only one month. it seems we are a bunch of dreamers foolishly jumping head first. we try to avoid getting burned and that is why we need as much information as possible before investing any money in this business!

i thank you for your time and hope you can aid me in my quest for opening a business in thailand.

alexxx

[Naam]

i hate to destroy your dreams Alex but you and your friends -being foreigners- are neither allowed to open a bar nor to work in one.

oops! i overlooked your thai friend. he is of course allowed to establich any business.

Edited September 11, 2007 by Dr. Naam

[technocracy]

hmmmm I feel a trainwreck thread coming along . .. . .

and the strange need to utter the word . .. Troll ?

I shall watch the entertainment unfold . . .

[alexxx]

Quote: "i hate to destroy your dreams Alex but you and your friends -being foreigners- are neither allowed to open a bar nor to work in one.

oops! i overlooked your thai friend. he is of course allowed to establich any business."

hmm. that sounds rather gloomy. is it a new law that forbids us? i was under the impression that as long as 51% of the business is under thai control a farang is allowed to have ownership in it!

thank you very much for your input

Edited September 11, 2007 by alexxx

[alexxx]

hmmmm I feel a trainwreck thread coming along . .. . .

and the strange need to utter the word . .. Troll ?

I shall watch the entertainment unfold . . .

is it so imposible to open up a successful bar in thailand? i think we have a good extra to bring into the business to make it different from all other bars. i do not wish to commit financial suicide or anything, but simply trying to exploit the POSIBILITY of opening a bar in thailand.

thank you for your reply nonetheless

[lazeeboy]

hmmmm I feel a trainwreck thread coming along . .. . .

and the strange need to utter the word . .. Troll ?

I shall watch the entertainment unfold . . .

is it so imposible to open up a successful bar in thailand? i think we have a good extra to bring into the business to make it different from all other bars. i do not wish to commit financial suicide or anything, but simply trying to exploit the POSIBILITY of opening a bar in thailand.

thank you for your reply nonetheless

yes you can open a bar and work with a work permit ,it will have to be in pattaya as samui ,phuket and bkk will cost a lot more than 700000b devide the profit if any 4 ways and the bar will be on the market within 3 months and you probably wont be freinds anymore .....

[cclub75]

we have an unique thing to bring to the business but i do not feel comfortable sharing this with the public since i am not sure of your confidentiality.

Let me guess.... Ice cubes ?

Troll or not Troll, I don't care. But really, Alex, you should peruse some websites, read stuff, and read more... I mean a lot of datas, ideas, discussions are out there... Already.

And they're all leading to the very basic fact that : your idea is insane.

Sorry.

[Lucifer]

Business in Thailand.

Bring as much money as you can, give all of it to some Thai's. Borrow some more. Give that too.

Save yourself the heartache.

[Big A]

....your idea is insane.

Beat me to it. Wouldn't touch it with a bargepole!!

[Solosiam]

Which bank are you going to borrow 7 million baht from?

Sounds like a really bad idea to me, why not just take a year off and come and tour around.

[alexxx]

we have an unique thing to bring to the business but i do not feel comfortable sharing this with the public since i am not sure of your confidentiality.

Let me guess.... Ice cubes ?

Troll or not Troll, I don't care. But really, Alex, you should peruse some websites, read stuff, and read more... I mean a lot of datas, ideas, discussions are out there... Already.

And they're all leading to the very basic fact that : your idea is insane.

Sorry.

no not ice cubes, although that could work as well ! i am in the process of doing just that! i will not put one penny in this idea unless i have a solid plan to follow! be assured that i have my doubts and that is exactly why i'm trying to get some first hand experience from people who've been there and lived it or done it if you may. my idea may be insane and then again it may not. this is exactly what i want to figure out: can it survive or not! i do appologise for bothering you with the same questions that you heared maybe 1000 times by now.

alex

[realmadrid25]

if it is impossible to make money from owning a bar does that mean that the hundreds of bars currently opened for years in Thailand are operating at a loss?

don't embarrass yourself. just because bars have a low success rate does not mean that someone can not make a fortune.

[alexxx]

Business in Thailand.

Bring as much money as you can, give all of it to some Thai's. Borrow some more. Give that too.

Save yourself the heartache.

the only thing that motivates me is the fact that i want to live in thailand, not any woman or anything. but i understand what you mean. as a young student if i ###### this up i shoot myself in...well actually i kill myself.

[alexxx]

Which bank are you going to borrow 7 million baht from?

Sounds like a really bad idea to me, why not just take a year off and come and tour around.

well we would all borrow 1,7 mil each. and we would probably do it from dk. i do not want to tour arround becasue i want to live down there. i want to enjoy life with it's ups and downs (and that i am sure i will have plenty of) in thailand.

[alexxx]

if it is impossible to make money from owning a bar does that mean that the hundreds of bars currently opened for years in Thailand are operating at a loss?

don't embarrass yourself. just because bars have a low success rate does not mean that someone can not make a fortune.

precisely my point!! i truly believe that if you bring something new to the table one can make it and "live happily ever after". the problem is knowing exactly what you are doing. and at this point i am clueless. please share from your knowledge and help me figure out how to get from here to thailand. i need to be aware of the traps and illusions of thailand. i want to do it proper if you now what i mean.

[britmaveric]

There is so many pitfalls with owning a bar - I'm quite sure a few former bar owners will comment on this. If you go in with the idea of spending lot of money and expect only a small return then this is a realistic expectation.

[bkkmadness]

yes you can open a bar and work with a work permit ,it will have to be in pattaya as samui ,phuket and bkk will cost a lot more than 700000b devide the profit if any 4 ways and the bar will be on the market within 3 months and you probably wont be freinds anymore .....

He said 7 million baht and that's more than enough to open a bar anywhere in the country.

Yes, farangs do own bars here and make a good profit.

But the odds are stacked well against you all since you neither have experience of the country or of business.

[cclub75]

He said 7 million baht and that's more than enough to open a bar anywhere in the country.

Yes, farangs do own bars here and make a good profit.

But the odds are stacked well against you all since you neither have experience of the country or of business.

... loan of 7 millions... That's the first pitfall. I mean loosing your own money, no problem some people love it... However loosing borrowed money, that's another story.

Furthermore, of course some farangs are runing bars in Thailand. And probably successfully for some of them.

But the plan is so vague (BKK, Phuket, Samui or Pattaya)... And we need to repeat that's it's illegal.

According to Foreign Business Act, it's impossible for foreigners to control a company in food and beverage (List 3 of the FBA).

Okay again : many people DID IT in the past (via nominees and dual share structures).

But if our friend Alex look at the news... he will see that the thai gvt is in the process to close those loopholes (with an amended version of FBA). At least, wants to.

Last solution : give up the control. Really. And then, it's whole complete different story.

Sorry for my harsh comments, I don't like to discourage people, but I think it's just plain common sense.

Taking risk, sure, why not. But not before doing the proper homework and aknowledging the risks.

[technocracy]

The biggest problem I see here (being serious for a moment) is - 4 people owning a bar!

4 people . . . and you all want your money back you've got to get some real big profits from month to month to get anywhere near that kind of investment back.

So what happens when you're breaking say 100k baht profit per month and have 25k each to live?

If you were doing with a partner or alone - maybe but 4 people all with different ideas also . . I just don't see it happening!

[keestha]

Sure there are some bars that make good money, often they are the ones that have a loyal customer base of local expats and also tourists who come every year. But mostly bars keep changing ownership and not without reason. Just spend one night in a Phuket or Pattaya bar that seems busy, and keep track of how many drinks they sell. It will be a joke compared to a busy neighborhood bar in Denmark, where the barkeeper sometimes has to stop taking orders because he needs time to rinse glasses. And......did you ever go on a bar crawl during the low season?

[pete_r]

Which bank are you going to borrow 7 million baht from?

Sounds like a really bad idea to me, why not just take a year off and come and tour around.

well we would all borrow 1,7 mil each. and we would probably do it from dk. i do not want to tour arround becasue i want to live down there. i want to enjoy life with it's ups and downs (and that i am sure i will have plenty of) in thailand.

I'll do the maths: You plan to borrow 7,000,000 Bahts from Denmark. That is about 152,000 Euros at the current exchange rate.

Assuming an interest rate of 5% per year, this means you will have to pay 7600 Euros per year, equivalent to 633 Euros per month (I drop the decimals) or about 29,000 Bahts just to pay the interest.

Add the repayments of the capital and some small salary for the four of you, and the bar already needs to generate a minimum of 80-100,000 Bahts in net profits per month. I don't see a newly opened bar managing that.

[technocracy]

Which bank are you going to borrow 7 million baht from?

Sounds like a really bad idea to me, why not just take a year off and come and tour around.

well we would all borrow 1,7 mil each. and we would probably do it from dk. i do not want to tour arround becasue i want to live down there. i want to enjoy life with it's ups and downs (and that i am sure i will have plenty of) in thailand.

I'll do the maths: You plan to borrow 7,000,000 Bahts from Denmark. That is about 152,000 Euros at the current exchange rate.

Assuming an interest rate of 5% per year, this means you will have to pay 7600 Euros per year, equivalent to 633 Euros per month (I drop the decimals) or about 29,000 Bahts just to pay the interest.

Add the repayments of the capital and some small salary for the four of you, and the bar already needs to generate a minimum of 80-100,000 Bahts in net profits per month. I don't see a newly opened bar managing that.

And the jury rest . . .. . TROLL

[dave111223]

What bank it going to give you this 7million baht loan for a bar in Thailand?

You could own the bar, but i don't believe you'd be able to actually work in it. There are a list of restricted jobs which foreigners cannot do (I am pretty sure that working in a bar is on the list).

You could hang around the bar and watch over the employees, but doing any "work" would surely require some payments to the BiB.

And assuming that you cannot obtain a work permit (because of the bar worker restriction) then you would have no grounds for a visa.

Of course you could just throw caution to the wind, pay off the local police open the bar anyways. Work without a work permit and stay without a valid visa.

P.S. Please correct me if i'm wrong about the work permit restriction.

[crewcut]

My advice would be to find a property, (a house or shop etc) in an area that you think has the type and number of customers for your unique selling point. Rent the premises for say 3 years, spend the bear minimum on a shop fit and put all the licenses etc in your Thai partner/friends name, but put the lease agreement in all of your names. The idea being that you use these 3 years or whatever to test the water and see if running a bar is all you think. This could be done for less then a million which is 250,000 baht each. You get to be in Thailand try your idea out and not commit yourselves to risking too much money. If you live in and don't spend too much your money will go even further.

In reality it is doubtful that this type of business would support 4 people, even two couples. Most of the best locations are gone and some people ask stupid key money.

Don't spend more than you can afford to lose.

Good Luck.

Edited September 11, 2007 by crewcut

[terryp]

Brilliant idea why didn’t I think of that?

Couple of serious points…………you will have so many friends when you open…none when you close

You will have pockets full of money at the start….none and most probably be in debt at the end

Don’t waste your time or energy…Thailand is fantastic for holidays…keep it that way

Parting words , the Thai Government are looking very hard at all Entertainment business’s as they are a very good source of Taxation revenue, ask any owner now if they would do it again and they will almost all say….Never again

Those who do make money normally have many partners who can all front cash when needs be......

[crewcut]

"Brilliant idea why didn’t I think of that?"

I give up, I don't know?

"Those who do make money normally have many partners who can all front cash when needs be..."

If the business makes money why would they need all of these partners who can front cash.

[mrtoad]

The fact that he has to borrow to even get a start up suggests that he not thought it through very well. Fine to get big loans for a start up in a stable economic climate and one with stable employment/business laws, but totally foolish to do it in a place like Thailand. The fact that the OP has no real experience in the industry along with his partners is a recipie for disaster.

As mentioned before, you only have to visit the resorts to see the turnover of bar owners. Granted, there are a few who do well, but many just about break even and a lot are just a bottomless pit.

It will also be interesting to see how he can get a loan from the bank on the basis of investing it into a bar in Thailand. I will assume that he a good enough credit rating and income to be able to obtain a personal unsecured loan.

If he goes for it then I hope it all goes very well, but It looks like a strong candidate for balcony bungee.

Edited September 11, 2007 by mrtoad

[El Taco Loco]

This topic is getting more and more interesting....

[pumpuiman]

Why a bar? Certainly with that capitol, another more secure business venture could be launched.

Sitting at the bar.....and running it, are two different things entirely. Don't get caught up thinking...."This will be fun!!"

Bars are risky investments....it's well known. Opening one on borrowed cash is just silly. Work a couple of years in Denmark...save your money and pay cash, if you want to take a risk....(I don't believe you'd get the loan anyway)

You should be asking yourselves..."What sort of business should we be looking to invest in"?

"How much risk is involved"?

"Can we get out safely if we fail"?

There are so many opportunities to be looked at. Take your time and invest in something more stable.

[colino]

I think ,,

if you open a bar here it should be as a hobby somewhere to watch the footy with your mates , with cheap beer and snacks ,oh and comfy chairs ,

as very very few make enough money to have a decent life style .

all the best

from your bestest mate in the world

colino