Can Vietnam’s Tourism Catch Up With Thailand’s?

[LaoPo]

11/09/2007

Can Vietnam’s tourism catch up with Thailand’s?

VietNamNet Bridge – Vietnam has more than 3,200 km of coast line with many beautiful dreamlike beaches in Nha Trang, Da Nang and Phu Quoc. However, the number of tourists to Vietnam as a whole is just equal to the number of tourists to Pattaya, a tourism point of Thailand. What should Vietnam do to catch up with Thailand?

VietNamNet talked with TJ Grundl-Hong, Chief Sales Officer & MD Business Development of Six Senses, specializing in managing resorts in many countries in the world, which is now managing three resorts in Vietnam, namely Ana Mandara Nha Trang, Ninh Van Bay and Da Lat. Mr TJ Grundl-Hong has the experience of 20 years working in rehabilitation tourism management, including five years in Thailand and six years in Vietnam.

With your Knowledge about Thailand and Vietnam, could you please comment about the tourism industry of the two countries in the past, present and future?

Thailand’s tourism industry is 20 years in advance of Vietnam’s, and the country’s tourism industry develops well thanks to good aviation, which can provide diversified flight schedules with different air carriers. Meanwhile, Thailand always gets ready to make heavy investment to develop its tourism industry.

Vietnam in the past, and even nowadays, does not have the said three factors. Vietnam’s tourism was born later than Thailand’s, the aviation industry has not developed yet, while the Vietnam National Administration of Tourism has not made appropriate investment to promote tourism.

However, Vietnam is now considered by international tourists as the new destination of the world, which could be seen as a big advantage for Vietnam. The number of tourists to Thailand is always higher than Vietnams, but if considering the growth rate, the index of Vietnam is higher than Thailand. Vietnam’s tourism may develop well if there is the effective cooperation among aviation, hotel and tourism services.

Ana Mandara is now managing resorts in Phukhet and Nha Trang. Could you make any comparison between Phukhet and Nha Trang?

I think that aviation plays a very important role in developing tourism. In Phukhet, one flight is provided for every 30 minutes. Many big brand names of hotels have been in Phukhet already. Meanwhile, in Vietnam, there are very few domestic flights. Nha Trang still does not have the airport near the city (the Cam Ranh airport is 40 km far from the city, but just provides a sparse flight schedule).

I think Nha Trang has only made use of 20% of its resources for development, and the city will become the famous tourism point in South East Asia in five or seven years thanks to its advantage of having a high population. Vietnamese people like doing business in their homeland, while Phukhet does not have many local residents, which would badly affect the labour force and high-grade staffs.

We are now planning to develop our business in Con Dao and Phu Quoc islands, but we still face the problems with high grade employees. The hotel management requires good and experienced managers, while the localities actually lack staffs.

As far as I know, the number of tourists to Pattaya alone is equal to the number of tourists to Vietnam in a whole. What would you say about this?

Pattaya is too polluted and noisy. The turnover from tourism in Pattaya is now good, but it would not be good in the future. Vietnam needs some more time to develop, and it will grow in five or ten more years. The Government should keep control over tourism development to avoid spontaneous and unplanned development. The most important thing is that Vietnam needs to make heavier investment in promoting tourism.

What do you think about rehabilitation tourism, about the competitiveness in this field?

Vietnam has 3,200 km of coastal line, but there are not many sea tourism points. I think Vietnam has used up to 10% of its total sea space only, as many provinces have beautiful beaches which have been left not fully exploited. Therefore, the potentials for rehabilitation prove to be very big. As planned, we will have six resorts in Vietnam. However, what worries us most is the lack of qualified staffs.

Regarding the competition, I know that at least 5-6 groups and international resort managers plan to enter Vietnam, they are eyeing the central region, from Da Nang, and Hoi An to the south.

Who are the main clients of Ana Mandara? Foreign groups always bring know how and technologies when arriving in Vietnam. What are the most important factors for you to consider when deciding to develop a tourism project?

They come there mainly to get rehabilitation or learn about Vietnam’s culture. They may be the tourists who have been to many South East Asian countries and now want to discover the new things in Vietnam. Most of them are high grade clients with more than 90% of them being foreigners, the potential clients for Vietnam’s tourism for the next few years.

We always consider two factors when deciding to develop resorts in localities: beautiful beaches and a big enough land fund.

http://english.vietnamnet.vn/travel/2007/09/739497/

Also:

Vietnam continues to attract large investments in tourism

"Furthermore, Vietnam has for the first time been included among the 20 destinations most favoured by tourists, according to a 2007 survey by Conde Nast Traveller. This is considered a positive sign for Vietnam’s tourism sector."

From: http://english.vietnamnet.vn/travel/2007/09/739481/

Note:

Anybody of you ever been to Phu Quoc Island at the South Western point of Vietnam ?:

Looks nice

http://www.phuquoc.info/

LaoPo

[jumnien]

Let's hope Vietnam's tourism industry can flourish. We certainly don't need anymore here!

[expatgaz]

Been to Phu Qua Island.Felt like Robinson Cruisoe,absolutely nothing there,I lasted 1 night.That was abt 6 years ago.

[technocracy]

The BIG problem for Vietnam and tourism is Visas and the fact that you MUST get a visa before travelling to Vietnam.

It's a royal pain in the butt for anyone from the west to have to get a visa from the local (or not so local for many people) Vietnam embassy. Sure it's a beautiful country will lots of potential but unless it's made easier (Visa on Arrival) then many people won't go through the hassle of visiting embassies or sending there passport recorded delivery etc.

Laos has sensibly moved with the times and at least allows people to just turn up on spec and get a visa. Strange that Vietnam which is so much further ahead in development than Laos still enforces this strange visa law.

Edit: Also forgot that the tourist visas also have the need for a start and end date ... so you have to specify what dates you will arrive - which is the only visa I know of in the world that has this requirement (correct me if wrong!). Most visa are valid for 3 months from issue for first entry so if you plans change you don't have a problem.

Edited September 11, 2007 by technocracy

[cclub75]

Can Vietnam’s tourism catch up with Thailand’s?

Okay, my opinion : Honestly.... no way.

People who visit Vietnam... don't come back to Vietnam. That's the first big difference with Thailand, where some tourists come every year.

The tourists are groups, with a heavy "cultural" and standard schedule : Hanoi, Sapa in the mountain in the north, Halong bay of course, Hoi An (chinese village), then Hue (ancien empire capital), Dalat (moutain south), Nha Trang (sea) and Saigon.

Leo leo, and go out. No time to loose.

Many issues :

-the visa. no "visa exemption" in Vietnam. You pay, and high price. Complicated.

-the infrastructures (small airports, bad roads etc.)

-the Vietnamese are very fast learners : they manage to destroy their environement as fast as Thailand did and continues to do !

Look at Mui Ne (south, on the sea). Crazy boom for 4 years, hotels everywhere, insane prices of land, too many restaurants... And at the end : a total destroyed coast. Well done.

Look at Halong Bay (been there again in august : a dump for tourists, hundred of boats making the same circuit, polluted water, in what was one of the most beautifull place IN THE WORLD). I don't even speak about the building boom on the coast...

-the corruption in Vietnam is even worst than in Thailand. That's a brake for the development of large -and nice- joint ventures projects for tourism.

-last point : they are still bloody commies. I'm joking of course. But they really need to "dispose" the old war generation of leaders in Hanoi... They are the worst.

But, this country is still and really fascinating. Hanoi and Saigon have a real soul for instance (contrary to Bangkok).

[technocracy]

Can Vietnam’s tourism catch up with Thailand’s?

Many issues :

-the visa. no "visa exemption" in Vietnam. You pay, and high price. Complicated.

Well they only country in the world (I believe) that Vietnam gives Visa Exemption to is Laos! Bit of a moot point I know but just thought I'd mention it!

[cclub75]

Well they only country in the world (I believe) that Vietnam gives Visa Exemption to is Laos! Bit of a moot point I know but just thought I'd mention it!

And... Thailand is on the list too.

Edited September 11, 2007 by cclub75

[technocracy]

Well they only country in the world (I believe) that Vietnam gives Visa Exemption to is Laos! Bit of a moot point I know but just thought I'd mention it!

And... Thailand is on the list too.

Oh yeah . . did that change recently? The last time I looked into Visas to Vietnam Thai citizens need one.

Just for the record:

Thailand, Philippines, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia and Laos have Bilateral agreements which allows 30 days

Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Finland (why scandinavia anyone know?? very odd!), Japan and South Korea have Unilateral agreements which allow for 15 days!

[LaoPo]

Well they only country in the world (I believe) that Vietnam gives Visa Exemption to is Laos! Bit of a moot point I know but just thought I'd mention it!

And... Thailand is on the list too.

Oh yeah . . did that change recently? The last time I looked into Visas to Vietnam Thai citizens need one.

Just for the record:

Thailand, Philippines, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia and Laos have Bilateral agreements which allows 30 days

Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Finland (why scandinavia anyone know?? very odd!), Japan and South Korea have Unilateral agreements which allow for 15 days!

I found this:

Who need visa to Vietnam?

http://www.guidevietnam.com/visa/who.html

LaoPo

[cclub75]

And... Thailand is on the list too.

Oh yeah . . did that change recently? The last time I looked into Visas to Vietnam Thai citizens need one.

I guess. A thai friend joined me end of august in Hanoi. Without visa.

confirmed by the link of LaoPo.

Edited September 11, 2007 by cclub75

[tutsiwarrior]

I usually only go to places to work and, relative to other places in SEA, I was quite impressed; the folks there have a will and determination and one can understand how they defeated two major colonial powers...I don't think that the corruption there is worse than other places... and they certainly don't 'smile' about it ... a place with lots of potential...Thailand in comparison is in decline, despite being in a 'special relationship' with the gangsters in Washington...

Edited September 11, 2007 by tutsiwarrior

[BADBRAD]

I lived in Viet Nam for two years (in fact I am still in the process of completely moving out of my place in Ha Noi) and saw pretty much the whole countery. As someone said before the tourist infrastructure (airports, buses, tours, etc.) is way behind Thailand's. They do have a lot of cheap hotels throughout the country, though. The visa issue is definately outdated and i have heard a lot of rumours that this will change soon. It is not really that big of a deal to get a visa, though. In Bangkok you can get one in about 24 hours and even in the US I sent my passport off for about a week and paid (I think) about 30 USD. The coast line is beautiful and the development over the last few years has made a lot more of it accessible to tourists, but as a poster mentioned before has come at a cost. There are still a lot of pristine and beautiful places, however. The best way to see Viet Nam is by motorcycle. That way you can get off the beaten track and see some of the more interesting places while avoiding the other mostly crappy transportation options. There is an incredible amount of diversity both in geography and in the people of Viet Nam. It is truly a beautiful country with a lot of interesting history and I have found the people to be amazingly warm and friendly, even to an American like me . Another plus is that it is unbelievably cheap. Just about everything is cheaper than Thailand. As to Viet Nam being more corrupt then Thailand, I have spent a bit of time in both and don't think I can agree with that. There is definately a lot of corruption in both, but in Thailand it seems to be everywhere, while in Vietnam it is a lot more under the surface.

But to answer the OP's question; I think if it will be a very long time before Viet Nam catches up to Thailand in terms of tourism, if ever. Viet Nam was closed to tourism until the early 90's and Thailand has been one of the most popular tourist destinations on the planet for decades. The fact is Viet Nam is at the moment struggling to find a compromise between their traditional and communist values and their desire to move forward economically. Sometimes I think they are only communist in name as capitalism is totally rampant. Socially it seems that every time they take a step forward, a few months later they will take one backwards. Very frustarting.

[Solosiam]

What does Vietnam offer that Thailand doesn't?

War history, communism and people who are a little bit different, but don't smile too much. Don't think Thailand has too much to worry about.

Persoally I don't know anyone who has been to Vietnam twice, whilst at the same time don't know anyone who has only visited one time in Thailand.

[BADBRAD]

What does Vietnam offer that Thailand doesn't?

War history, communism and people who are a little bit different, but don't smile too much. Don't think Thailand has too much to worry about.

Persoally I don't know anyone who has been to Vietnam twice, whilst at the same time don't know anyone who has only visited one time in Thailand.

Sounds like you don't know too many people. I know many of both types that you "personally don't know."

[tutsiwarrior]

What does Vietnam offer that Thailand doesn't?

War history, communism and people who are a little bit different, but don't smile too much. Don't think Thailand has too much to worry about.

Persoally I don't know anyone who has been to Vietnam twice, whilst at the same time don't know anyone who has only visited one time in Thailand.

they just didn't know of the better sex bars in HCMC,

[Solosiam]

What does Vietnam offer that Thailand doesn't?

War history, communism and people who are a little bit different, but don't smile too much. Don't think Thailand has too much to worry about.

Persoally I don't know anyone who has been to Vietnam twice, whilst at the same time don't know anyone who has only visited one time in Thailand.

Sounds like you don't know too many people. I know many of both types that you "personally don't know."

lol, yes that's why Vietnam is 20 years behind Thailand in terms of tourism, no? and why we are all posting on a Vietnamese website, oh wait...

lets face it when most people think of Vietnam they think of war, I'm sure that will change much later on, but just don't know what it can offer that Thailand cannot.

[TBWG]

What does Vietnam offer that Thailand doesn't?

War history, communism and people who are a little bit different, but don't smile too much. Don't think Thailand has too much to worry about.

Persoally I don't know anyone who has been to Vietnam twice, whilst at the same time don't know anyone who has only visited one time in Thailand.

Sounds like you don't know too many people. I know many of both types that you "personally don't know."

lol, yes that's why Vietnam is 20 years behind Thailand in terms of tourism, no? and why we are all posting on a Vietnamese website, oh wait...

lets face it when most people think of Vietnam they think of war, I'm sure that will change much later on, but just don't know what it can offer that Thailand cannot.

Hi

Have visited only once but intend to go back and see more.

What does it have to offer over Thailand .....well for me the mix of oriental cooking with a French influence must be one of the best in the World. The bread is fantastic after Thailands cake type stuff.

Also the French influence on architecture is worth seeing. A plus from my point of view is the lack of tourists!

Also those long flowing dresses that are split to the waist which the girls wear are very sexy.

TBWG

[BADBRAD]

lol, yes that's why Vietnam is 20 years behind Thailand in terms of tourism, no?

Actually, no! If Viet Nam is only 20 years behind Thailand in terms of tourism then they are coming along pretty rapidly. As I said in a previous post on this thread, Viet Nam has been open to tourism for about 15 years while Thailand has been popular with tourists for many decades. So I think they are catching up nicely. I don't know if it will ever be as popular as Thailand (probably not), but for me that is one of my favorite things about the country: not so many ###### Westerners milling about.

What does Viet nam offer that Thailand doesn't? To name a few things; more diverse climate, more variety in terms of geography, fewer tourists, cheaper prices, easier visa regulations for people who want to stay long term, and I could continue. In turn Thailand has a lot to offer that Viet Nam does not. That was not the topic of the thread. The OP's question, in case you missed it, was "Can Vietnam's tourism catch up with Thailand's?" My reply to this is definately not any time soon, but in the future it is possible. Especially if Thailand's government and visa policies continue to go downhill while Viet nam's are improving.

Oh, and as far as the smiles thing, I kind of appreciate the fact that the Vietnamese will let you know how they feel rather than hiding behind one of a variety of different smiles that all have different meanings. Don't get me wrong, I love Thailand and Thai people or else I wouldn't have come here over a dozen times as a tourist and I wouldn't have moved here, but don't sell Viet Nam short!

[BADBRAD]

[lol, yes that's why Vietnam is 20 years behind Thailand in terms of tourism, no? and why we are all posting on a Vietnamese website, oh wait...

lets face it when most people think of Vietnam they think of war, I'm sure that will change much later on, but just don't know what it can offer that Thailand cannot.

Hi

Have visited only once but intend to go back and see more.

What does it have to offer over Thailand .....well for me the mix of oriental cooking with a French influence must be one of the best in the World. The bread is fantastic after Thailands cake type stuff.

Also the French influence on architecture is worth seeing. A plus from my point of view is the lack of tourists!

Also those long flowing dresses that are split to the waist which the girls wear are very sexy.

TBWG

Agree with all of the above!

Edited September 11, 2007 by BADBRAD

[PhilHarries]

I am living and working in Viet Nam now and on the issue of this topic I kind of sit on the fence.

On one side I hope that Viet Nam's tourist industry catches up with Thailand's real quick so as to give Thailand, or Thailand's ruling elite to be more precise, a well earned and well deserved kick in the bolleaux.

On the other, from a purely selfish standpoint, I hope it doesn't as almost certainly massive developement will destroy much of what is beautiful just as it has done, and continues to do so (ko Chang?) in Thailand.

As for the tw@ts that prattle on about the war learn this, the Vietnamese have largely forgotten the war, it is over, in the past, time to move on. True there is still a little anti American sentiment, particularly where I am close to the site of the village of Mai Lai, but it is only a little and by and large the people are as friendly as the Thais.

[Florin]

I love the fact that Vietnam has more geographic variety, and can't wait to go back and check out the Sapa area. And I don't see why everyone would go to all the mentioned tourist spots in one go, it would be a hel_l of a trip, it's not like all the people that come to Thailand instantly check out Bangkok+Pattaya+Phuket+Samui+Chiang Mai+Kanchanaburi.

I think Vietnam will eventually steal more and more tourists from Thailand until it starts to level out for both countries...One of the reasons people go to Thailand must be the fact that they have by far the most developed infrastructure in the immediate region and make it easy for tour operators from all over the world to book trips. Once countries like Vietnam/Cambodia/Laos start catching up in terms of infrastructure, people will go and enjoy the particular beauties of each place.

[Prakanong]

I am living and working in Viet Nam now and on the issue of this topic I kind of sit on the fence.

On one side I hope that Viet Nam's tourist industry catches up with Thailand's real quick so as to give Thailand, or Thailand's ruling elite to be more precise, a well earned and well deserved kick in the bolleaux.

On the other, from a purely selfish standpoint, I hope it doesn't as almost certainly massive developement will destroy much of what is beautiful just as it has done, and continues to do so (ko Chang?) in Thailand.

As for the tw@ts that prattle on about the war learn this, the Vietnamese have largely forgotten the war, it is over, in the past, time to move on. True there is still a little anti American sentiment, particularly where I am close to the site of the village of Mai Lai, but it is only a little and by and large the people are as friendly as the Thais.

Maybe Vietnam does not want the mass tourist industry that Thailand has - maybe it has a chance to attract a good proportion of the quality high spending touriss while still attracting the independent/backpacker.

The Singaspore govt was encouraging Singapore hotel groups to invest in resorts there that I saw in one paper.

I bet it does not want the Pattaya Market

What about other segments of the economy - it has very high FDI currently and GDP growth is projected at something like 10% per year for 10+ years is it not?

Mention the war - its the opposite of Britain then

We mention it but the Germans do not, The USA lost but mention it while the Viet's do not

[terryp]

Vietnam is a wonderful Country; tourism is increasing at a much faster pace than was the case in Thailand’s early Western tourist years…. The 70’s-80’s

Visa rules (on arrival) are getting much easier…. then watch the tourists flock

Vietnamese have been watching Thais to see what they could learn and believe me they want to learn and get on in life not just mope and sleep around all day…hence most of the NEW factory’s being built are owned by Thais sick of the lethargic Thai workforce…Thai Silip for example

Food is fantastic, Girls are stunning, prices are very fair & a general good feeling to the place

Possible most of the people saying negative about VN are the sexpats…Girls are available but no-where near the mass prostitution of Thailand

A very close Thai (forget the pun) between Malaysia/Vietnam (Malaysia is a massive investor in Vietnam) as my next home…forget all the Thai cr_p

[technocracy]

I love the fact that Vietnam has more geographic variety, and can't wait to go back and check out the Sapa area. And I don't see why everyone would go to all the mentioned tourist spots in one go, it would be a hel_l of a trip, it's not like all the people that come to Thailand instantly check out Bangkok+Pattaya+Phuket+Samui+Chiang Mai+Kanchanaburi.

I think Vietnam will eventually steal more and more tourists from Thailand until it starts to level out for both countries...One of the reasons people go to Thailand must be the fact that they have by far the most developed infrastructure in the immediate region and make it easy for tour operators from all over the world to book trips. Once countries like Vietnam/Cambodia/Laos start catching up in terms of infrastructure, people will go and enjoy the particular beauties of each place.

I don't fully understand this 'Infrastructure' thing people are quoting. What infrastructure? Vietnam is actually far ahead of Thailand in Technology terms and are currently rolling out Next Generation Networks. Microsoft and Intel are/have built large plants there and are flexing there corporate muscles to get there technology flooding the place. Internet - it's everywhere!

The Hotels are equal to and in many cases better than Thailand, particularly the smaller hotels. Both Hanoi and HCMC have decent size international airports capable of support ample incomings - remember it's not trying to be a 'hub' it's just for direct flights to Vietnam. It also has many local airports and a decent enough rail system.

So for people on vacation holiday i.e. 2 weeks, there isn't much that missing is there! For expats who want to live there in the same manner as they would in the UK having Tesco and large hypermarkets, then no it's not got 'your' required 'infrastructure'.

What I see also as a problem with Vietnam for holiday purposes (not expats) is that the country is mainly Private Enterprise based so you'll have 30 or more people offering exactly the same thing and fighting over the incomings rather than considering becoming a single large company and spliting the money. Which makes it difficult to offer a fully cohesive holiday since a large firm will be passing the tourist onto smaller companies.

In my opinion Vietnam can quite easily catch up with Thailand in Tourism but the main changes that would need to be addressed (imo) are:

1) Said before - Visa issues - if it ain't easy people don't want to know.

2) Curfew (closing) times - Hanoi basically shuts down at 10, HCMC at 11 - people who go out on the streets after this time aren't exactly safe.

3) Petty theiving - it is rife in Vietnam motorbike bag and camera snatchers are common place, it's the only place in asia I've ever experienced it (they didn't get my camera as I had a stronger grip than them!). Before any one say well I shouldn't flash the camera around etc. I wasn't I was walking down a street and holding my compact camera in it's carry case by my shoulder (gripping my back pack at the same time - small pack). I've also spoke to other people staying in nearby place that they'd been targetted also, the attempt on me was outside of the tourist area also.

Also I am not 100% sure the Vietnamese government wants the place overrun with tourists! They are more than happy with the incoming money from corporations which is something that Vietnam has easily caught up with Thailand and in many way surpassed. The one big attraction being stability.

[Prakanong]

I love the fact that Vietnam has more geographic variety, and can't wait to go back and check out the Sapa area. And I don't see why everyone would go to all the mentioned tourist spots in one go, it would be a hel_l of a trip, it's not like all the people that come to Thailand instantly check out Bangkok+Pattaya+Phuket+Samui+Chiang Mai+Kanchanaburi.

I think Vietnam will eventually steal more and more tourists from Thailand until it starts to level out for both countries...One of the reasons people go to Thailand must be the fact that they have by far the most developed infrastructure in the immediate region and make it easy for tour operators from all over the world to book trips. Once countries like Vietnam/Cambodia/Laos start catching up in terms of infrastructure, people will go and enjoy the particular beauties of each place.

I don't fully understand this 'Infrastructure' thing people are quoting. What infrastructure? Vietnam is actually far ahead of Thailand in Technology terms and are currently rolling out Next Generation Networks. Microsoft and Intel are/have built large plants there and are flexing there corporate muscles to get there technology flooding the place. Internet - it's everywhere!

The Hotels are equal to and in many cases better than Thailand, particularly the smaller hotels. Both Hanoi and HCMC have decent size international airports capable of support ample incomings - remember it's not trying to be a 'hub' it's just for direct flights to Vietnam. It also has many local airports and a decent enough rail system.

So for people on vacation holiday i.e. 2 weeks, there isn't much that missing is there! For expats who want to live there in the same manner as they would in the UK having Tesco and large hypermarkets, then no it's not got 'your' required 'infrastructure'.

What I see also as a problem with Vietnam for holiday purposes (not expats) is that the country is mainly Private Enterprise based so you'll have 30 or more people offering exactly the same thing and fighting over the incomings rather than considering becoming a single large company and spliting the money. Which makes it difficult to offer a fully cohesive holiday since a large firm will be passing the tourist onto smaller companies.

In my opinion Vietnam can quite easily catch up with Thailand in Tourism but the main changes that would need to be addressed (imo) are:

1) Said before - Visa issues - if it ain't easy people don't want to know.

2) Curfew (closing) times - Hanoi basically shuts down at 10, HCMC at 11 - people who go out on the streets after this time aren't exactly safe.

3) Petty theiving - it is rife in Vietnam motorbike bag and camera snatchers are common place, it's the only place in asia I've ever experienced it (they didn't get my camera as I had a stronger grip than them!). Before any one say well I shouldn't flash the camera around etc. I wasn't I was walking down a street and holding my compact camera in it's carry case by my shoulder (gripping my back pack at the same time - small pack). I've also spoke to other people staying in nearby place that they'd been targetted also, the attempt on me was outside of the tourist area also.

Also I am not 100% sure the Vietnamese government wants the place overrun with tourists! They are more than happy with the incoming money from corporations which is something that Vietnam has easily caught up with Thailand and in many way surpassed. The one big attraction being stability.

I think he is talking about tourist infrastructure.

Yes Thailand is a aviation hub and competes with Singapore to be primary in the region but Thailand has more arrivals at 13+ million and Singapore with 10+ million - these are people entering the copuntry i beleive and do not know transit figures.

We know Vietnam will blow Thailand out of the water technically and it is attracting much higher value investments than Thaiand at the moment as you point out from the likes of Microsoft and Intel.

[BADBRAD]

I am living and working in Viet Nam now and on the issue of this topic I kind of sit on the fence.

On one side I hope that Viet Nam's tourist industry catches up with Thailand's real quick so as to give Thailand, or Thailand's ruling elite to be more precise, a well earned and well deserved kick in the bolleaux.

On the other, from a purely selfish standpoint, I hope it doesn't as almost certainly massive developement will destroy much of what is beautiful just as it has done, and continues to do so (ko Chang?) in Thailand.

As for the tw@ts that prattle on about the war learn this, the Vietnamese have largely forgotten the war, it is over, in the past, time to move on. True there is still a little anti American sentiment, particularly where I am close to the site of the village of Mai Lai, but it is only a little and by and large the people are as friendly as the Thais.

Mention the war - its the opposite of Britain then

We mention it but the Germans do not, The USA lost but mention it while the Viet's do not

Not to nit-pick here, but half of the Vietnamese also lost in what they call the American War. It is quite interesting to see the difference in the attitudes and sentiments of people from the south and those from the north. I lived in Ha Noi, but had a lot of friends from Sai Gon and not only is their language different but so are their political ideologies and a lot of their values. For example people in the north are a lot more conservative then their southern cousins. However, even in Ha Noi i never once had anything negative said to me because of the fact I am an American. It is possible there is anti-American sentiment (particularly amongst the older generation) but it is definately far below the surface and in the south there is still a very friendly attitude towards Americans. I could imagine if there was once place that still harbors ill-feelings it would be around Mai Lai as Mr. Harris stated . Anyways, I digress.

I thought of some other things Viet Nam has that Thailand does not: 4 seasons in the north, a currency that trades at a very stable rate, and pho!

[Prakanong]

I am living and working in Viet Nam now and on the issue of this topic I kind of sit on the fence.

On one side I hope that Viet Nam's tourist industry catches up with Thailand's real quick so as to give Thailand, or Thailand's ruling elite to be more precise, a well earned and well deserved kick in the bolleaux.

On the other, from a purely selfish standpoint, I hope it doesn't as almost certainly massive developement will destroy much of what is beautiful just as it has done, and continues to do so (ko Chang?) in Thailand.

As for the tw@ts that prattle on about the war learn this, the Vietnamese have largely forgotten the war, it is over, in the past, time to move on. True there is still a little anti American sentiment, particularly where I am close to the site of the village of Mai Lai, but it is only a little and by and large the people are as friendly as the Thais.

Mention the war - its the opposite of Britain then

We mention it but the Germans do not, The USA lost but mention it while the Viet's do not

Not to nit-pick here, but half of the Vietnamese also lost in what they call the American War. It is quite interesting to see the difference in the attitudes and sentiments of people from the south and those from the north. I lived in Ha Noi, but had a lot of friends from Sai Gon and not only is their language different but so are their political ideologies and a lot of their values. For example people in the north are a lot more conservative then their southern cousins. However, even in Ha Noi i never once had anything negative said to me because of the fact I am an American. It is possible there is anti-American sentiment (particularly amongst the older generation) but it is definately far below the surface and in the south there is still a very friendly attitude towards Americans. I could imagine if there was once place that still harbors ill-feelings it would be around Mai Lai as Mr. Harris stated . Anyways, I digress.

I thought of some other things Viet Nam has that Thailand does not: 4 seasons in the north, a currency that trades at a very stable rate, and pho!

Sorry I was being rather flippant at the end of my post.

I have not heard of any resentment either from American friends who have visited on business or pleasure.

Talking of Pho I just found a new viet outlet in the food court at Bugis, Singapore - hmm had the chicken on Monday so might go for the beef today

[BADBRAD]

In my opinion Vietnam can quite easily catch up with Thailand in Tourism but the main changes that would need to be addressed (imo) are:

1) Said before - Visa issues - if it ain't easy people don't want to know.

2) Curfew (closing) times - Hanoi basically shuts down at 10, HCMC at 11 - people who go out on the streets after this time aren't exactly safe.

3) Petty theiving - it is rife in Vietnam motorbike bag and camera snatchers are common place, it's the only place in asia I've ever experienced it (they didn't get my camera as I had a stronger grip than them!). Before any one say well I shouldn't flash the camera around etc. I wasn't I was walking down a street and holding my compact camera in it's carry case by my shoulder (gripping my back pack at the same time - small pack). I've also spoke to other people staying in nearby place that they'd been targetted also, the attempt on me was outside of the tourist area also.

Also I am not 100% sure the Vietnamese government wants the place overrun with tourists! They are more than happy with the incoming money from corporations which is something that Vietnam has easily caught up with Thailand and in many way surpassed. The one big attraction being stability.

The most annoying thing for me about the closing times is that they change frequently at the whim of the police. When I first moved to Ha Noi there were many bars and clubs open until 2 a.m. By time I left many of those had been closed down completely and the rest were closing at 11.

I spoke with a friend there today and he said that things are starting to relax a little again and the bar he works at is open to 12 again.

As far as the theiving, I never experienced anything of the sort in 2 years of living there and many trips as a tourist prior to that. In fact, of the over 30 countries I have been fortunate enough to visit, I found Viet Nam to be quite possibly the safest.

[PattayaParent]

In my opinion Vietnam can quite easily catch up with Thailand in Tourism but the main changes that would need to be addressed (imo) are:

1) Said before - Visa issues - if it ain't easy people don't want to know. This is an internal security concern. There are many overseas Viet (in US and Australia particularly but I've met them in Korea too) that are members of organisations that want to destabilise the government. Therefore the government want to look at the passports of every visa applicant to ensure that such undesirable elements do not get into the country.

The most annoying thing for me about the closing times is that they change frequently at the whim of the police. So they've caught up with Bangkok already in that regard then?

[B-BOY]

Thanks for starting this thread Lao Po, interesting indeed!

How shall I describe my Vietnam?? There is probably nothing better then taking a Saturday morning off and enjoying breakfast with a Cafe Sua Da at a Highland Cafe, especially at Saigon Trade Center, watching nonstop hustle and bustle of Viet workforce coming and leaving, people with mobile and laptops everywhere, trading whatever...it has a great pace to it and reflects a fast growing economy and sheer people power.

In evening relax after a stressfull day at terrace of Sheraton Hotel and watch city lights, with an ice cold Gin Bombay...then dinner at Xu Restaurant and then after drink at Lush till 2am. Late night drinks at Go2 open till 5am and late.....sounds familiar??

Cheers!