Consideration For The Member Of Family Of The Foreigner Who Stays Temporarily In Case Of Retirement

[cclub75]

I beg to differ, cclub75. The above quote where Sunbelt Asia calls it a police order IS from the first of more than 800 posts in that topic. If you can go through the entire list and find where Sunbelt Asia calls it a regulation, give it a go. Even if you're right and Sunbelt even once called it a regulation, the point is moot. The LAW which apparently supersedes both police orders and regulations, is now being 'interpreted' as if the law was quite clear.

I agree with tim77: how many more surprises are out there in the Siamese woodwork, ready to bite us in the asp?

Okay. So it's Police Order in september 2007 that says that Police Order in october 2006 was wrong because Ministry Regulation of 2002 said something different and is superior.

Do we agree all, now ?

So, we still have a pending question to fully understand what is going on : extensions of visa were granted with what regulation during the period 2002 (date of the Ministry regulation) and october 2006 (date of the wrong Police Order) ?

Or I can reformulate : did the Police Order of 2006 change really something to the extension of visa process ?

[farangtingtong]

I agree with tim77: how many more surprises are out there in the Siamese woodwork, ready to bite us in the asp?

That's what keeps me busy...........how many more differences are there between police orders after 2545 and what are these differences?

I know the OP concerns the retirees, but how many people are effected in another way or how many people have been rejected a visa, but according to MR B.E. 2545 entitled to get one?

Back to the OP: does it mean that the underaged foreign wives or husbands of retirees have to leave the country? Sunbelt.....please give these people a positive advise and a good night sleep!!!

[sumrit]

As I understand it, where both the husband and wife are over fifty, in the future they will both have to apply for a visa extension in their own right and both

show their own 800k baht in the bank. As the 800k needs to be in the bank for three months prior to the application if they organize it so they make their

application six months apart they can use the same 800k and just transfer it between each others acount.

Just means you've got to trust your wife when you put the money in her account

[lopburi3]

For spouse under age 50 the options have been covered in the original thread. There is no direct provision for extensions of stay. They can obtain non immigrant visa entry for visits of 90 days at a time and some may qualify for other reasons, such as education, work or accompany student type extensions of stay.

[retiredusn]

For spouse under age 50 the options have been covered in the original thread. There is no direct provision for extensions of stay. They can obtain non immigrant visa entry for visits of 90 days at a time and some may qualify for other reasons, such as education, work or accompany student type extensions of stay.

Ok sorry Lop but my brain is not understanding everything... My wife is over 50 and is on a piggyback retirement visa with me. Now is there any visa available here in Thailand other than retirement (800k) or ED, or B that will allow her to stay past the visa extension to remain date.? Can she get a visa in Thailand without leaving the country .. and if so what is the proper name. Thank You

[lopburi3]

The same no answer if you will not use the retirement 800k or 65k or combination method. My post was in response to post #32 and is why I mentioned under age 50. The advantage of being over age 50 is that you do have the retirement option.

[Naam]

Just means you've got to trust your wife when you put the money in her account

if you can't trust your wife with that kind of money she doesn't need a visa.

[Naam]

Ok sorry Lop but my brain is not understanding everything... My wife is over 50 and is on a piggyback retirement visa with me. Now is there any visa available here in Thailand other than retirement (800k) or ED, or B that will allow her to stay past the visa extension to remain date.? Can she get a visa in Thailand without leaving the country .. and if so what is the proper name. Thank You

i think the question to Lopburi should be rephrased. i have the same question.

do our wives have to leave the country or can they use the originally obtained non-imm O visa to get their own retirement "visa"?

[lopburi3]

Believe that is a new question but yes believe they should be able to change extension of stay reason without exit of country as it is based on a non immigrant visa entry at some point.

[tim77]

So, we still have a pending question to fully understand what is going on : extensions of visa were granted with what regulation during the period 2002 (date of the Ministry regulation) and october 2006 (date of the wrong Police Order) ?

Or I can reformulate : did the Police Order of 2006 change really something to the extension of visa process ?

I think your question is excellent.

What permitted dependent extensions for retirement visas before Oct 2006 (date of the wrong Police Order)? Was it the then prevailing interpretation of the regulation? If so, are there to be more interpretations, clarifications, etc?

Edited September 15, 2007 by tim77

[thpitsch]

Pattaya Today - Volume 7, Issue 1 from today:

"The suggestion on the Internet (this Forum! - added by me) was that even the foreign wife of an applicant for a retirement visa would need her own income or cash lump sum in her own right.

But immigration sources say they have no information on any new ruling. As of mid September, Pattaya immigraion office was processing such applications in the normal way and without any changes. 'We have had no new instructions' said one officer who handles visas for retirees."

Confusion perfect!

What's about the publication of the new rules in the "Gazette"? Ten days are over!

I think, now is the time for the lawyers of SUNBELT to make a clear statement.

[Naam]

As of mid September, Pattaya immigraion office was processing such applications in the normal way and without any changes. 'We have had no new instructions' said one officer who handles visas for retirees."

i heard the same but don't rely on it and want to be prepared although it's additional 800k used very inefficiently

[Naam]

So, we still have a pending question to fully understand what is going on : extensions of visa were granted with what regulation during the period 2002 (date of the Ministry regulation) and october 2006 (date of the wrong Police Order) ?

What permitted dependent extensions for retirement visas before Oct 2006 (date of the wrong Police Order)? Was it the then prevailing interpretation of the regulation? If so, are there to be more interpretations, clarifications, etc?

Gentlemen, do you really expect that anybody can or will answer these questions?

[CRUNCHER]

What's about the publication of the new rules in the "Gazette"? Ten days are over!

I think, now is the time for the lawyers of SUNBELT to make a clear statement.

Check out the original post in this thread.

[tim77]

So, we still have a pending question to fully understand what is going on : extensions of visa were granted with what regulation during the period 2002 (date of the Ministry regulation) and october 2006 (date of the wrong Police Order) ?

What permitted dependent extensions for retirement visas before Oct 2006 (date of the wrong Police Order)? Was it the then prevailing interpretation of the regulation? If so, are there to be more interpretations, clarifications, etc?

Gentlemen, do you really expect that anybody can or will answer these questions?

You are absolutely correct. There is no one who can or will answer these questions. Worse, I tend to think that there is no one who knows the answers.

Utterly bizarre. . . .

Edited September 16, 2007 by tim77

[dalmatian]

I am 52 and my wife is 38 (British). I am in UK presently so asked my wife to go to Pattaya Immigration to check about new rules. As per previous post she was advised that nothing had changed and she would be able to get a dependent visa based on my retirement status (due for renewal December). I am still concerned about the new rules being used by Pattaya immigration so I have asked my wife to check with immigration again when she reports (90 days) in middle October. She hopes they give same answer, if they do, we will approach immigration in December with all required documentation, letters, photocopies etc. Hopefully all will go well but if declined can my wife get non-immi O/B visa without leaving the country. Appreciate she would leave after every 90 days but would she need to apply for this type of visa in UK. Sound info appreciated.

[lopburi3]

She would have to leave the country to obtain a multi entry non immigrant O visa.

[Sunbelt Asia]

I am 52 and my wife is 38 (British). I am in UK presently so asked my wife to go to Pattaya Immigration to check about new rules. As per previous post she was advised that nothing had changed and she would be able to get a dependent visa based on my retirement status (due for renewal December). I am still concerned about the new rules being used by Pattaya immigration so I have asked my wife to check with immigration again when she reports (90 days) in middle October. She hopes they give same answer, if they do, we will approach immigration in December with all required documentation, letters, photocopies etc. Hopefully all will go well but if declined can my wife get non-immi O/B visa without leaving the country. Appreciate she would leave after every 90 days but would she need to apply for this type of visa in UK. Sound info appreciated.

So far Pattaya has said they will follow the National Police Order 606 until a new Police Order is issued.

However, Bkk is following the Ministerial Regulations instead of the National Police Order 606 in regards to dependent permits based on retirement.

When it changes in Pattaya, she will need to go to a Thai Embassy/Consulate.

What's about the publication of the new rules in the "Gazette"? Ten days are over!

What is clear is the Police cannot over rule the Immigration Act or Ministerial Regulations. How long it will take for the Commander to add an amendment to the Police Oder is anyones guess. Immigration originally stated it would be published soon as they already had pointed out the problem to the Police Commander and a new Police Order would need to be issued as

1. Dependent permits cannot be granted based on retirement as per the Ministerial Regulations.

2. Parents with Thai children are allowed to stay in Thailand to support the child regardless if they are over 50 years old. Age of the parent is not part of the Ministerial Regulations.

No idea on what day the new Order will come out as its up to the National Police Commander to release it. ( They surmised wrong when they stated it would be 10 days) We were told before it was a done deal to be issued in the Royal Gazette. but as far as Immigration in Bkk is concerned it is not even needed as they won't issue the permit anymore to a dependent based on retirement. The good news is it looks like parents with Thai children are going to have a way to stay in Thailand without leaving every 90 days. Immigration in Bkk is waiting for the new Police Order to see what the criteria will be.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[Sunbelt Asia]

Back to the OP: does it mean that the underaged foreign wives or husbands of retirees have to leave the country? Sunbelt.....please give these people a positive advise and a good night sleep!!!

If you are in Bkk, the answer is the spouse must qualify for a different extension of stay permit and not piggyback on the husband retirement permit. If they can not meet the criteria on their own, they will need to do a visa run every 90 days by getting a visa from a Thai Embassy/Consulate.

As of last week Immigration in CM and Pattaya was allowing extension of stay permits to happen if the spouse had a retirement permit.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[retiredusn]

Back to the OP: does it mean that the underaged foreign wives or husbands of retirees have to leave the country? Sunbelt.....please give these people a positive advise and a good night sleep!!!

If you are in Bkk, the answer is the spouse must qualify for a different extension of stay permit and not piggyback on the husband retirement permit. If they can not meet the criteria on their own, they will need to do a visa run every 90 days by getting a visa from a Thai Embassy/Consulate.

As of last week Immigration in CM and Pattaya was allowing extension of stay permits to happen if the spouse had a retirement permit.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Thank you please keep us adivsed of any immigration offices that do allow extensions of stay for a spouse with a retirement permit (piggybacked). Has anyone been extended at Pong Ron?

[camile]

My spouse (age 59) has had a Retirement Visa and I (age 49) and I a dependents visa for three years. Before that he had a work permit and I a dependents visa. Our current visas expire mid December 2007 and I will turn 50 in June 2008 which means a 6 month period without me having a long tem stay visa. For family reasons I need to leave Thailand several times in early 2008 - what visa is suggested. And anyone in one else falling into this hole? (The funds for my visa have already been transferred into the country)

[Sunbelt Asia]

My spouse (age 59) has had a Retirement Visa and I (age 49) and I a dependents visa for three years. Before that he had a work permit and I a dependents visa. Our current visas expire mid December 2007 and I will turn 50 in June 2008 which means a 6 month period without me having a long tem stay visa. For family reasons I need to leave Thailand several times in early 2008 - what visa is suggested. And anyone in one else falling into this hole? (The funds for my visa have already been transferred into the country)

One year non immigrant "O" visa ( or 90 day "O" visa) or a 6 month Tourist visa with 60 day entries if you can get it. All would be obtained outside Thailand at a Embassy/Consulate.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[Firefan]

SO if Pattaya extend, and BKK does not (in the current situation) - can people then take the bus down there and do it in Pattaya? Cheers!

[cclub75]

So, we still have a pending question to fully understand what is going on : extensions of visa were granted with what regulation during the period 2002 (date of the Ministry regulation) and october 2006 (date of the wrong Police Order) ?

What permitted dependent extensions for retirement visas before Oct 2006 (date of the wrong Police Order)? Was it the then prevailing interpretation of the regulation? If so, are there to be more interpretations, clarifications, etc?

Gentlemen, do you really expect that anybody can or will answer these questions?

Again that's the key.

Sunbelt keeps repeating that Police Order october 2006 is void... Okay, now we all understand... But before ?

-was is possible to get a "dependant visa extension" ?

-if yes, what were the regulations ?

-if not : fair enough case closed.

Maybe some retirees could answer us ? Did they get an extension before october 2006 ? And what were the conditions at that time ?

I mean it's only 1 year go... Someone should remember.

[Naam]

Maybe some retirees could answer us ? Did they get an extension before october 2006 ? And what were the conditions at that time ?

yes, my wife did twice. and nobody talked about conditions except the 800k in the bank.

[camile]

I received a dependents visa - based on my spouses Retirement visa in 2004/2005/2006. He was over 50 and 800,000 Baht on deposit.

Upon our next visa renewal date I will be 6 months short of turning 50.

[Sunbelt Asia]

Sunbelt keeps repeating that Police Order october 2006 is void... Okay, now we all understand... But before ?

Just so its understood. Its not "us" saying its void but BKk Immigration.

-was is possible to get a "dependant visa extension" ?

-if yes, what were the regulations ?

-if not : fair enough case closed.

Maybe some retirees could answer us ? Did they get an extension before october 2006 ? And what were the conditions at that time ?

I mean it's only 1 year go... Someone should remember.

Yes it was possible. The only requirement for dependents of retirees then (husband / wife, children), the dependent applicant must provide evidence indicating their relationship. Evidence must be translated into Thai and be certified by the embassy or consulate of the non-Thai citizens. Also had to show proof of the extension of stay permit for the retiree.

I do remember though in real life, Immigration in a couple cases was not keen for the dependent. Immigration in a couple cases wanted the dependent to show 800K and not piggyback. I remember a post a couple years ago from CM who did not get the dependent extension. However we indeed had cases where dependent clients were approved before Oct 2006.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

.

[Naam]

The only requirement for dependents of retirees then (husband / wife, children), the dependent applicant must provide evidence indicating their relationship. Evidence must be translated into Thai and be certified by the embassy or consulate of the non-Thai citizens.

both my wife and me are non-thai citizen. our original marriage certificate in english was accepted without problems. no translation and no certifying by our embassy needed.

date: jan 2004

venue: Pattaya

non-O visa not issued in our home country

[Sunbelt Asia]

The only requirement for dependents of retirees then (husband / wife, children), the dependent applicant must provide evidence indicating their relationship. Evidence must be translated into Thai and be certified by the embassy or consulate of the non-Thai citizens.

both my wife and me are non-thai citizen. our original marriage certificate in english was accepted without problems. no translation and no certifying by our embassy needed.

date: jan 2004

venue: Pattaya

non-O visa not issued in our home country

Again this was Pattaya. They have different guidelines than other provinces such as the extension of stay based on business where the audit must show a higher net profit than the foreigners salaries. In Bkk, they look at the gross sales.

Different provinces and different views.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[retiredusn]

Non-Immigrant visa "O-A" multiple journey (s) issued in the US 2004 for both the wife and I, and each year after that we both received a extension of stay (Retirement)and multiple journey in Bangkok.) This was done using a pension letter only. Our next extension is due in Feb2008, I just hope there is a grandfather clause being considered otherwise we are off to Mexico and we do really enjoy our home here in Thailand.