The Window Is Back Open For Dependents Of Retirees

[tracer]

Would I be correct in assuming this means that anyone who has recently been refused such an extension on the basis of a new Police Order that never came into existence could apply again for reconsideration under the old regulations which have never changed and remain in effect?

Anybody who was denied or application was not accepted to process in the last 19 days, can now apply.

Is this a law or regulation and what can one do if some guy introduces a stupid regulation conflicting with a law....

[tracer]

Hilarious ! and were there not something like 600 or more postings on the other thread where people were complaining , packing their bags, leaving Thailand, going elsewhere , etc etc . TIT .

I agree there does seem (at first) to be a humorous side to all this. BUT in reality, for those who thought their lives were about to be torn apart AND those few actually rejected under the supposed "in force rules", there is nothing enjoyable or funny about it. My heart goes out to them.

Another time it could be any one of us living in Thailand on Visas affected.

It is indeed pleasing and reassuring that Immigration has re-evaluated its original intentions and are willing to think again on matters, However, it would BE BETTER STILL, more pleasant, reassuring and humane not scare so many people needlessly UNLESS it is 99.9% certain a rule implemented will stay implemented because all the issues have been carefully thought out first.

Of course if the above can happen what about the reverse. Being told there will not be a rule implementation us relaxing and then WHAM it happens.

What we need is some clarity, consistency, warning and trust on all sides.

Ideally we could do with all Visas rules coming down from a single Thai official source and not from several apparently partly overlapping authorities.

Regards, Dave

I thought this splitting up of families was in contradiction with world trade agreements or at least some internation agreement against splitting up of families...

[tracer]

GREAT new law, I am living here since more than 7 years now, bought some land, build a house etc......tought it is my home. I am maried since 7 Years to a nice Thailady. Unfortunately I am not OLD, just 47.

Last week on immigration office in Phuket. "......You have to leave country in 7 !!! days, it doesnt matter you have 470k on your accounts, if You cant show a monthly income of 50,000 You have to leave. WE want see monthly income now, not money on bank account."

The officer told me even if I have children with my wife, THEY HAVE TO LEAVE TOO........ ....is THAT really TRUE or just another JOKE of the officers?

During the whole stay at the immigration in Phuket there was nothing friendly at all, NO KRAB of the men and NO KA of the female officers......

Land of Smile and nice ppl??? ......long time ago

If your kids are THAI let wife sort it out and tell her not one baht for the crooks.

If farang, No idea and if both who knows. MINE are officeally thai as later we have land and to be honest I trust my kids better then the wife...

There is ONE way to get a visum but it means you have to check with Thai embassy in country of origin.

Immigration will not believe anything you show them here,,,

[tracer]

Everything is status quo as before Sept 1st 2007 at Bangkok Immigration. The higherups had a meeting yesterday and as no new Police Order has been issued in the Royal Gazette, they'll abide with the National Police Order 606 starting as of today.

Good news for the extension of stay dependents based on retirement as of today. Possibly bad news for parents under 50 years old, because everything is the same until a new police Order comes out( if it ever will ) As of today the window is back open for applicants of dependents and Bkk Immigration is going to follow Police Order 606 even if it is in conflict with the Immigration Act and Ministerial Regulations.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

LOL, man they make and break new laws like a roller coaster, what are they doing? Must be a bunch of monkeys in a room, throwing up cards with new laws, old laws, and the cards land where they may, one day oh oh it landed with this law, the next day oh crap it came up the old law, we got to change back, can't they make up their minds with what is going on?????

This is good news though, today, what will it be tomorrow????????

I thought no politics on the posts...

quote "Must be a bunch of monkeys in a room...."

whatever I agree...

[tropo]

It is kind of the Officials at Immigration to understand the problem and to permit families to stay together. Hopefully, this spirit will continue and will become codified so as to prevent misunderstanding in the future.

And my thanks to Sunbelt for relaying information to this forum.

It's not really good news at all. It's bad news that they continue to make major changes to the existing rules and then change their minds yet again.

For anyone considering retirement in Thailand with a dependent this is a red flag. Why would someone want to retire under rules that could change again overnight.

It's much better for a retiree (with a dependent) not to come to Thailand in the first place than come and then risk getting kicked out later after he's already spent a lot of money and placed money in a Thai bank account.

The best advice is to proceed with extreme caution.

Edited September 21, 2007 by tropo

[Sunbelt Asia]

And my thanks to Sunbelt for relaying information to this forum.

You are welcome.

Just wondering if Immigration in other parts of Thailand are going to do the same? We are going to be heading for Chiang Mai in the near future and would like some clarification.

The same as for CM as they were always following Police Order 606. It was BKk that was not.

Over 50 and easily meet all of the Financial Requirments for "O" retirement visa. But have a DISABLED SON (low IQ) perfect health who is now 20 years old. With his disability he remains my dependent. Please advise if he can live with me based on my Retirement Visa

Sorry, no. Perhaps he can qualify under a medical permit.

To Sunbelt

What is the rules as you see them re Marriage Dollar amount B4000000 or B40000 a month. In the past I have been Grandfathered as i have been in the system for years. But on my last visit they said i should show B40000 next Time around (10 months from now) instead of money in the bank. Asked why she said just tring to help that we could use the money in the bank instead of just letting it sit there?? I showed her copy's of Police order both Thai and English , but she kept saying she was just trying to help?? What is your read. By the way this was in Tak office.

Each Immigration office has their own rules. Clearly you can use 400K in the bank or income of 40K per month in BKk Immigration. However anything is possible at other Immigration offces.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[gdhm]

...Each Immigration office has their own rules. Clearly you can use 400K in the bank or income of 40K per month in BKk Immigration. However anything is possible at other Immigration offces.....

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

And here lies 95% of everybody's problems and it should NOT be the case.

Who is in charge of rules. Local offices or Thai Immigration Head Office. Head Office who make the rules should decide interpretation and clarity of those rule. After all they made th rules and ONLY they know 100% what they intended to achieve.

I have just read reports on the Khon Kane Forum on 90 Postal reporting in the SAME time frame (around mid Sept). Nong Khai (one of the most referred to offices for inconsistencies and different rule interpretations) told one person he must come the Nong Khai to collect his posted acknowledgement slip, and yet another posted and had HIS returned to him as normal in the post.

How can anybody cope with this sort of situation? Not to mention that those is Khon Kaen City have a 3 hour journey to their "local Nong Khai office"

I would appreciate it it Sunbeltasia can confirm the situation (as they understand it). Is 90 reporting now supposed to be by personal reporting ONLY?

AND

2) has the other reported rule change "that you must apply for Visa extensions at you OWN Local Imm. Office" been officially confirmed yet

AND

3) if yes to 2) does that apply to 90 day reporting, if we are still allowed postal reporting still.

Who in Khon Kaen area wants to deal with Nong Khai for 90 day reporting with their arbitrary now you can postal report, now you can (may depend on officer) or if you are lucky and we like you, Oh! now you can't.

It is hard to believe that Nong Khai, in view of SO MANY reports, do not have personal attitude problems toward Visa applicants.

I do not like saying this nor do I say it lightly but I know of many NON confrontational applicants who have been told different things on different days (or different officers).

Last time I went to Korat to extend my Retirement Visa and NO problems. They did ask why I did jot go to Nong Khai and I said I went sub office of Nong Khai) Udon Thani before only 2 hours journey but it had closed down)

Korat is STILL Northeast district (as is Khon Kaen city) and only 15 kms farther away than Nong Khai but actually quicker and easier to get to.

I suspect however if the new "Local Office" rule is true then somehow it will be decided by anonymous factors that Nong Khai is the chosen local office for Khon Kaen - which would be is regrettable in view of the reported current climate of inconsistency of requirement and rule interpretations operating out of that office (and seemingly over much of the last year judging by all the reports).

As always I will obey Immigration Rules and Regulations AND report to the Office I am allowed to go to. I just wish I knew exactly what was required of me each time I need to go.

NOT AN UNREASONABLE EXPECTATION. After all the Imm. Offices EXPECT us ALL to KNOW and COMPLY 100% each time.

Hope you are able to enlighten me Sunbeltasia with my 3 short (I believe) queries, if you have the time.

Regards

Dave

Edited September 22, 2007 by gdhm

[tijnebijn]

GREAT new law, I am living here since more than 7 years now, bought some land, build a house etc......tought it is my home. I am maried since 7 Years to a nice Thailady. Unfortunately I am not OLD, just 47.

Last week on immigration office in Phuket. "......You have to leave country in 7 !!! days, it doesnt matter you have 470k on your accounts, if You cant show a monthly income of 50,000 You have to leave. WE want see monthly income now, not money on bank account."

The officer told me even if I have children with my wife, THEY HAVE TO LEAVE TOO........ ....is THAT really TRUE or just another JOKE of the officers?

During the whole stay at the immigration in Phuket there was nothing friendly at all, NO KRAB of the men and NO KA of the female officers......

Land of Smile and nice ppl??? ......long time ago

-------

I find it very hard to believe that this took place. I have been going into Phuket immigration for over 20 years and never had an experience like this. They have always been helpful even with my american thai.

I assume you were on a marriage extenison so can't imagine what took place to cause this, or were you on some other visa not type "o"?

There is no way your kids would be forced to leave as if they were born to you and your thai wife, they are thai regardless on what visa you were on.

Seconded.

There is no way that children born with a Thai , who are Thai themselves , are forced to leave , bullocks comment .

[fruittbatt]

Is the decision not to implement the new police order anything more than a "stay of execution"?

Ad hoc immigration policy decisions and u-turns foster uncertainty and mistrust in farangs likely to be affected by such laws.

For those retired expats who are looking security of residence, ability to own a home, stable and logical immigration guidelines, the message is very clear.

Look at countries other than Thailand while you can.

[moskito]

GREAT new law, I am living here since more than 7 years now, bought some land, build a house etc......tought it is my home. I am maried since 7 Years to a nice Thailady. Unfortunately I am not OLD, just 47.

Last week on immigration office in Phuket. "......You have to leave country in 7 !!! days, it doesnt matter you have 470k on your accounts, if You cant show a monthly income of 50,000 You have to leave. WE want see monthly income now, not money on bank account."

The officer told me even if I have children with my wife, THEY HAVE TO LEAVE TOO........ ....is THAT really TRUE or just another JOKE of the officers?

During the whole stay at the immigration in Phuket there was nothing friendly at all, NO KRAB of the men and NO KA of the female officers......

Land of Smile and nice ppl??? ......long time ago

-------

I find it very hard to believe that this took place. I have been going into Phuket immigration for over 20 years and never had an experience like this. They have always been helpful even with my american thai.

I assume you were on a marriage extenison so can't imagine what took place to cause this, or were you on some other visa not type "o"?

There is no way your kids would be forced to leave as if they were born to you and your thai wife, they are thai regardless on what visa you were on.

Yeah PhuketRichard, same here, I was always served friendly and without any problems in Phuket Immigration Office BEFORE the new law. You typed MARCH, I visited the office in September and found there is a new Head Officer there, really cute guy with a lot of power in his hands and he obviously liked it to show it to his "customers" I was not the only one with that problem on these day, there was another german and an English guy......

And for those who cant read.... I dont have kids here (fortunately) but they told me my wife have to leavy too. If that is not true, WHY are they telling lies like that in Phuket Immigration office?????? can THEY do whatever they want, and are there no rules for THEM?

guess they always forget WHY they are sitting there and WHO pay for their salary.

very SPECIAL place that PHUK ET

[steve891]

And my thanks to Sunbelt for relaying information to this forum.

You are welcome.

Just wondering if Immigration in other parts of Thailand are going to do the same? We are going to be heading for Chiang Mai in the near future and would like some clarification.

The same as for CM as they were always following Police Order 606. It was BKk that was not.

Over 50 and easily meet all of the Financial Requirments for "O" retirement visa. But have a DISABLED SON (low IQ) perfect health who is now 20 years old. With his disability he remains my dependent. Please advise if he can live with me based on my Retirement Visa

Sorry, no. Perhaps he can qualify under a medical permit.

To Sunbelt

What is the rules as you see them re Marriage Dollar amount B4000000 or B40000 a month. In the past I have been Grandfathered as i have been in the system for years. But on my last visit they said i should show B40000 next Time around (10 months from now) instead of money in the bank. Asked why she said just tring to help that we could use the money in the bank instead of just letting it sit there?? I showed her copy's of Police order both Thai and English , but she kept saying she was just trying to help?? What is your read. By the way this was in Tak office.

Each Immigration office has their own rules. Clearly you can use 400K in the bank or income of 40K per month in BKk Immigration. However anything is possible at other Immigration offces.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

To Sunbelt

What are the rules regarding visa on arrival..

It is allowed to have 3 x 30 day visa's in 6 months, once they are used up, can you continue onto the next 3 x 30 days in the next 6 months without a 90 day break.

[Mac1]

Everything is status quo as before Sept 1st 2007 at Bangkok Immigration. The higherups had a meeting yesterday and as no new Police Order has been issued in the Royal Gazette, they'll abide with the National Police Order 606 starting as of today.

Good news for the extension of stay dependents based on retirement as of today. Possibly bad news for parents under 50 years old, because everything is the same until a new police Order comes out( if it ever will ) As of today the window is back open for applicants of dependents and Bkk Immigration is going to follow Police Order 606 even if it is in conflict with the Immigration Act and Ministerial Regulations.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

To Sunbelt Asia

I am a Father under 50 years old - what is my options ?

I have goverment pension more than B 800,000 - not married, no work permit,

live with Thai girlfriend and baby. For me, marry is not what I want now.

Please advice as I'm shure many members here are in same situation, and very interested to know.

Mac1

[LivinLOS]

Well I am not sunbelt but you dont have any long stay choices..

Tourist visas..

If the kid is old enough for schooling then posh school.. ED vis a(based on his farang citizenship) and 500k gets a support visa I think.. But not one just for having a kid.

Go get a 1 year from a friendly consul..

[lopburi3]

Your options seem to remain the same as they have been all year - employment, marriage, education, accompany student? would be the normal criteria for extensions or you could use non immigrant O visa entry for up to 90 days at a time (obtaining on basis of Thai child). As Sunbelt has mentioned it could change at some point; but as of now it has not.

[LivinLOS]

Really the least painful way to go without a real visa class is to go get a 1 year non imm from somewhere once each 15 months.. Then visa run at 90 days..

[h5n1]

Anyone that plans their families lives on this arbitrary, capricious behavior deserves what he (they) get.

Rule by men, not by law.

Will they be reimbursing those that had to make other plans or had visa rejections, etc...?

I thought not.

[escoces]

Not really familiar with the Thai set-up regarding immigration rules but believe me it can't be the worst. In the UK the Home Office changes the rules on an almost daily basis. Issuing 'directives' (in effect changing the law, but by-passing parliament) it has left immigration and asylum regulations in a state of total confusion. Nobody, lawyers, immigrants, and least of all immigration officers, know what the exact regulations are at any given moment. These directives are genarally issued as a knee-jerk reaction to the latest xenaphobic tabaloid headlines, to show the Government is doing something about all these nasty foreigners in the country. Even a straight forward 'right to remain' visa for spouses - which should be automatic under EU rules, takes them a minimum of 6 months to process (your passport being held by them in the meantime) it's a bloody joke. No, I think Britain wins the prize for the most F****** up Immigration service.Thailand has a way to go.

[Maestro]

I have deleted an off-topic post (about marriage extension) and the replies thereto. This topic is about the extension as a dependent of a retiree. If you have a question or comment about any other type of extension, kindly start a new topic in this forum “Thai visas, residency and work permits”.

Thank you all.

--

Maestro

[JetsetBkk]

Confirmed by Phuket PIO

‘Visa extensions’ for dependents allowed – for now

PHUKET: Following news reports last month that the Immigration Bureau will no longer issue “permit to stay” extensions for spouses and families of holders of retirement visas, Phuket Provincial Immigration Office (PPIO) Superintendent Pol Col Ittipon Atchariyapradit has told the Gazette he will will continue issuing such extensions until he receives an order to stop doing so.

“We are still issuing permits to stay to the families of retirees as before, but I cannot confirm when this will stop as it depends on when we receive the order [from Bangkok],” he said.

Pol Capt Krissarat Nuesen of Phuket Immigration Office explained that the Immigration regulations currently stipulate that the dependents of any foreigner who has been granted permission to stay on a retirement visa can be granted extension to stay as per article 7.19 of the Royal Police Office Order 606/2006.

However, widespread reports have suggested that from September 1, extensions to stay for dependents would no longer be granted.

“I have heard that the Immigration Bureau in Bangkok has stopped issuing extensions to dependents of people on retirement visas, but we haven’t been informed of any changes by any informal document or any official order,” said Capt Krissarat.

Brought to you by: The Phuket Gazette

http://www.phuketgazette.net/news/index.asp?id=5997

[Rasseru]

Everything is status quo as before Sept 1st 2007 at Bangkok Immigration. The higherups had a meeting yesterday and as no new Police Order has been issued in the Royal Gazette, they'll abide with the National Police Order 606 starting as of today.

Good news for the extension of stay dependents based on retirement as of today. Possibly bad news for parents under 50 years old, because everything is the same until a new police Order comes out( if it ever will ) As of today the window is back open for applicants of dependents and Bkk Immigration is going to follow Police Order 606 even if it is in conflict with the Immigration Act and Ministerial Regulations.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

I note that more than two months have passed, Sunbelt Asia, since you posted this. Have there been any developments relating to this topic in that time, or is the situation still as it was then?

[cclub75]

Bkk Immigration is going to follow Police Order 606 even if it is in conflict with the Immigration Act and Ministerial Regulations.

Bravo ! Another very nice Z-turn.

Before the conflict with Ministerial regulations was a big problem according to them. Now it's not anymore.

And tomorrow ?

[jasperuk]

What does this mean?, my wifes (English national) mother is currently here on an O visa, she is not in good health, and has little money/income. Can she live here under my retirement visa as a dependent relative?. Any help/info would be appreciated.

[Maestro]

Yes, she can. Paragraph 2.20 of Thai Police Order 777/2551 and of Immigration Bureau Order 305/2551 apply.

[lopburi3]

It would not be allowed by my reading - only children of spouse would be covered under section 2.20.

[Lite Beer]

Agree with Lopburi above.

From the Police Order:

Order (applicable only to parents, spouse, child, adopted child or child of

his/her spouse)

[Maestro]

Now I see it. It is the mother of the wife of jasperuk, not his own wife, who wants to live in Thailand. I had read his post wrong.

Jasperuk, is there a chance that your wife could engage in an activity that would entitle her to an extension of stay under one of the clauses 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 2.5, 2.6, 2.7, 2.10, 2.12, 2.13, 2.14, 2.15, 2.16, 2.17, 2.21 of Police Order 777/2121? This would then allow her mother to get an extension as the dependent of your wife.