Passports, Thai & British

[JASON THAI]

Hi I have a few questions to ask

(1) My GF needs to get a new passport as her's is expired, I know she will need to go to Bangkok to get this done but how long does this take ?

(2) My 2 year old son will also need to get a Thai passport how do I go about this ?

(3) I am British (Born) but not married yet will I be able to get my son a British passport he was born on the 21/03/05 , if Yes how do I go about this and also how long will this take

(4) I will be around Bangkok on the 27th & 28th of December will the passport office be open ? and also what are the opening times

Thanks

JT

[the scouser]

It'll take about a week for your wife to get her Thai passport renewed and it would appear as if you may make an application to the Borders and Immigration Agency (BIA) to have your son registered as a British citizen. If your son is in Thailand you will have to apply through the British embassy who then forward the papers to the BIA in Liverpool and you can expect a decision within about three months.

Scouse.

[Maestro]

(4) I will be around Bangkok on the 27th & 28th of December will the passport office be open ? and also what are the opening times

I don’t know about the opening dates but it may interest you to know that there are several passport offices spread all over the country. See this web page.

The offices outside the main office are called “Temporary passport office” in English and I don’t know whether this means that the office is only temporary, ie for a limited period, or whether it can issue only temporary passports. If one of these upcountry offices would be more convenient for you, have your lady friend give them a call to find out.

--

Maestro

[JASON THAI]

It'll take about a week for your wife to get her Thai passport renewed and it would appear as if you may make an application to the Borders and Immigration Agency (BIA) to have your son registered as a British citizen. If your son is in Thailand you will have to apply through the British embassy who then forward the papers to the BIA in Liverpool and you can expect a decision within about three months.

Scouse.

Hi my son is living in Thailand, he has a Thai birth certificate which has been translated into English and certified is this o.k to use with my birth certificate to get him his British passport ?

Cheers

J

[the scouser]

Providing that you are named as the father on the birth certificate and this was issued within a year of your son's birth, then yes. However, before you get a British passport for him, you will need to apply for his registration as a British citizen. NB: this is NOT the same as registering his birth at the British embassy.

Scouse.

[JASON THAI]

Providing that you are named as the father on the birth certificate and this was issued within a year of your son's birth, then yes. However, before you get a British passport for him, you will need to apply for his registration as a British citizen. NB: this is NOT the same as registering his birth at the British embassy.

Scouse.

Hi I am named on the birth certificate as the father, and this was issued a few weeks after he was born, how do I go about applying for registration as a British citizen for him can this be done in the UK or do I need to do this in Bangkok ?

Cheers

JT

[scotty123456789]

My thai girls passport is up for renewing.

Is it possible to pay the people who deal with the passports extra baht to speed up the passport, instead of waiting the three days??

[samran]

My thai girls passport is up for renewing.

Is it possible to pay the people who deal with the passports extra baht to speed up the passport, instead of waiting the three days??

nope. But it is possible to pay for it to be couriered to you after its done. That will make it 5 days.

Wait until you have the set up at the passport office. It truely is world class...and then you'll see that 3 days is pretty much the fastest anywhere where you can get a digital e-passport which is chipped.

[torrenova]

Providing that you are named as the father on the birth certificate and this was issued within a year of your son's birth, then yes. However, before you get a British passport for him, you will need to apply for his registration as a British citizen. NB: this is NOT the same as registering his birth at the British embassy.

Scouse.

Exchanged emails with the Consular Section of the British Embassy ( britishembassy.gov.uk/Thailand ) regarding my daughter's birth, registration and passport application (we are all in Thailand) and was told that we did not have to pay the loony 10k+ for registration but had to provide the same documents to get her British passport.

Now your statement has me somewhat confused.

What do you mean by "you will need to apply for his registration as a British citizen" ? The FCO never mentioned this nor mentions it on their website.

Also, am I right in assuming that I can do the registrating thing that costs 10k here back in the UK for next to nothing ?

Basically, I don't see why I should just chuck 10k down the toilet !

[the scouser]

Registration of a child's birth is a totally different process to registering a child as a British citizen and they are in no way linked.

You're on about obtaining a British birth certificate for your daughter whereas I'm on about Jason registering his son as a British citizen. If you wish to obtain a British birth certificate for your daughter and she was born in Thailand, this can only be done at the embassy. You will not be able to obtain a birth certificate for her in the UK.

Jason's son did not automatically acquire British citizenship at birth and must therefore apply to register as a British citizen if it is his parents' desire for him to carry a British passport. Your daughter, so it would seem, has an automatic entitlement to British citizenship, so does not need to apply to the Home Office for registration as a British citizen.

Scouse.

[vinny]

Also, am I right in assuming that I can do the registrating thing that costs 10k here back in the UK for next to nothing ?

Basically, I don't see why I should just chuck 10k down the toilet !

Nationality - minor single and multiple registration fee is currently 400 pounds in the UK.

From Consular Birth Registration:

British Fathers, who are not married, can now apply to register children who are born abroad prior to 1 July 2006, with the Home Office. Please note this is discretionary. Those applying should expect to receive a decision in approximately 4 months. The fee for this will be £400 payable in local currency plus a Consular forwarding fee of Baht 4,248. Please ask us for form MN1 or obtain it from the Border and Immigration Agency.

Edited September 24, 2007 by vinny

[torrenova]

Registration of a child's birth is a totally different process to registering a child as a British citizen and they are in no way linked.

You're on about obtaining a British birth certificate for your daughter whereas I'm on about Jason registering his son as a British citizen. If you wish to obtain a British birth certificate for your daughter and she was born in Thailand, this can only be done at the embassy. You will not be able to obtain a birth certificate for her in the UK.

Jason's son did not automatically acquire British citizenship at birth and must therefore apply to register as a British citizen if it is his parents' desire for him to carry a British passport. Your daughter, so it would seem, has an automatic entitlement to British citizenship, so does not need to apply to the Home Office for registration as a British citizen.

Scouse.

Thanks a lot for that. I'll shout you a few beers if you are ever down my way in Pattaya.

I just could not see what benefit I would get from paying them 10k apart from her having a British brith certificate. She will have a certified copy of her Thai birth certificate as well as a passport and that would seem to be enough unless I am overlooking some mysterious benefit from having her on some UK government computer ? Her entitlement to all things British I am entitled to would not require this I presume ?

[macduff]

I'm after a thai passport for my newborn son. I'm british and my wife is thai. We already have a uk passport for him. Would it be easier to obtain one from bangkok or from the uk. We all live in the uk in manchester. It seems a lot of aggravation to go down to london for the day and a lot of expense as we both have to be present at the signing of the passport application in the london embassy. We plan to go to thailand at or just after christmas. Would we get my sons passport the same day or is there a waiting period?. I realise there's a waiting period of three to four weeks if we went down to london as it's issued in thailand.Your advise would be appreciated thanks.

[torrenova]

Would it not just be easier to get the Thai passport when you are in Thailand ?

[macduff]

Would it not just be easier to get the Thai passport when you are in Thailand ?

Well this is the question i'm asking. Will it be straightforward in thailand without a waiting period. It would be worth it if i could get one the same day.

[Mahout Angrit]

Will it be straightforward in thailand without a waiting period. It would be worth it if i could get one the same day.

Does your child have a Thai birth certificate? if so you must all go to one of the passport offices in Thailand with the required documents. You cannot get one issued the same day it takes 3 days to issue but you can have it returned by courier to an address in Thailand and it will take about 6 days all told.

[samran]

Will it be straightforward in thailand without a waiting period. It would be worth it if i could get one the same day.

Does your child have a Thai birth certificate? if so you must all go to one of the passport offices in Thailand with the required documents. You cannot get one issued the same day it takes 3 days to issue but you can have it returned by courier to an address in Thailand and it will take about 6 days all told.

I'd personally suggest that you do it in the UK. There are a couple of administrative reasons for this based on my experience in getting myself registered in thailand.

In Thailand, you require to have your name on the housebook (tabieen baan) so that the passport can be issued. Essentially, passports issued in Thailand access the central ID database and suck the informaition over to the passport.

Overseas born children usually do not get their name on the housebook until they move to thailand permanently and require the name on the housebook to get an ID number.

As such coming to thailand to get the passport will necessistate a bit of mucking around at your wifes provincial administrative office (Ampur) getting the childs name on to the house book. While at the end of the day not a problem, it can be a bit of a headache. One of the documents they'll likely ask for to get your sons name on the house book is...dum dum....a thai passport showing that he entered Thailand on it (so as to prove the parents didn't neglect putting the child onto housepapers within 30 day of being born which is the law).

So, getting the Thai passport via the embassy is the way to go, as embassies have the authority to issue Thai passports to people who are living overseas who don't necessarily have their name on the house book. Once you have the PP, you enter Thailand to get your particulars on the family house book.

However, I strongly recommend that unless you are moving to Thailand permanently your son stays off the housebook unless he moves to Thailand permanently (at which point it is required to go on the housebook). Being on the housebook puts him on the radar for military conscription at 17 - where they send out the call up letter and if you don't respond, you can be charged with draft dodging. Of course, if you are not on the housebook, then no dodging undertaken as you are overseas and not resident in Thailand. A techecallity I know, but a good one. If you live outside of Thailand until you are 30, you aren't liable for conscription, but that is what I did with no consequence.

Conclusion: Having a thai passport though the embassy is easiest for many reasons. Thai PP can still be used to enter Thailand for long visits no worries - which is what I suggest any Thai national to do!

[the scouser]

Going to the Thai embassy in London does involve some messing around, but, like Samran, I believe it's best to bite the bullet and get it over and done with.

When we went through this to get our son a Thai birth certificate and passport, we set off from Liverpool at 05:30 in the morning and were outside the embassy for 09:15 with 15 minutes to spare before the 09:30 appointment. All was done and dusted by 10:15 and we were back in Liverpool by 15:00. The passport and birth certificate then arrived about four weeks later.

Scouse.

[macduff]

Thanks for your advise guys. I've gave the matter a great deal of thought and i've decided that going down to london seems the logical route. I would like to bring your attention to samrans remarks about the registration of my son on the house book. One of the requirements of proof at the london embassy is my wifes id card which has the house registration on it. As i understand it the information on it will not automatically go on the house book unless we registar my son at the amphur office sepratly if we move there permanantly. What i'm concerned about is if my son gets his thai passport and stays in england, will he still be called up for national service when the time comes?. Or is it like the child benefit and the tax credit system here in england?. One department does'nt know what the other department are doing. But that's another story.

Edited September 25, 2007 by macduff

[the scouser]

Only if you put him on the tabien baan in Thailand and you are under no compulsion to do this.

Scouse.

[macduff]

Ok thanks scouser and everybody who replied to my post.

[samran]

As i understand it the information on it will not automatically go on the house book unless we registar my son at the amphur office sepratly if we move there permanantly. What i'm concerned about is if my son gets his thai passport and stays in england, will he still be called up for national service when the time comes?. Or is it like the child benefit and the tax credit system here in england?. One department does'nt know what the other department are doing. But that's another story.

- Thats right, a formal application needs to be done at the Ampur, showing amongst other things, mothers ID, your childs Thai birth certificate and (in my case) my Thai passport (issued in Australia) showing what date I entered Thailand on.

- As for the miltary, technically they use the house registration lists as a list of who needs to be called up. The technical rule is that once called up, you have to report. If you can't report, then you get someone else who can be deemed responsible for you to report, which can be done until you are 30, after which date only you can report, but then automatically exempted for being too old!

If you are not intially called up, then the process doesn't start. Those who report after they are 30 are automatically released from duties- based on the rules I've read and advice from a lawyer who also happens to be the current speaker of the house of representatives!

As for visting Thailand - you can do so on your Thai PP for extended periods of time. This is not an issue and no, the military don't seem to share information with immigration. It is only when you live here that registering becomes important. Not only from a legal perspective, but also that you need an ID card and a copy of the house registration to do almost anything here in Thailand (eg. Jobs, get a mobile phone number, pay tax, apply for credit cards, buy land etc etc etc).

[macduff]

Just one more question samran. Supposing a thai passport was not sort for my son and we came over on his already obtained uk passport, what would the regulation be if he stayed over past the 30 day rule?. He will be 6 month old in december. Are there any consessions for a baby?. Or would i get in trouble for the overstay?. I have already obtained a O immigrant 12 month mulity trip visa. Were only talking up to 3 months max for the visit to thailand.The visa is for myself not the child.

[Mahout Angrit]

Are there any consessions for a baby?. Or would i get in trouble for the overstay?.

From the 'Visas for Thailand' forum Thai Immigration waive overstays (and hence visa requirements) for children under 7, 14 or 17.(whichever it is you are covered!)

Edited September 26, 2007 by Mahout Angrit

[samran]

Just one more question samran. Supposing a thai passport was not sort for my son and we came over on his already obtained uk passport, what would the regulation be if he stayed over past the 30 day rule?. He will be 6 month old in december. Are there any consessions for a baby?. Or would i get in trouble for the overstay?. I have already obtained a O immigrant 12 month mulity trip visa. Were only talking up to 3 months max for the visit to thailand.The visa is for myself not the child.

As Mahout said, not a problem, although ideally, using the Thai PP from the word go is advisable. Myself and a few others who didn't start using our Thai PP's till our teens (a member of this board0) had issues entering Thailand for the first time when we all came across immigration officers insisting we use our foreign passports for some reason.

But if it is too much of a hassel, then stick with the Brit usage for now, but when visas do start becoming an issue, then get the Thai one.

[macduff]

Thanks mahout for that link. I think to save any problems i may have i will pursue a thai passport in the uk. As samrans pointed out about him using his foreign passport instead of thai passport at immigration. It eradicates any problems if we decide to stay any longer in thailand if we choose too over and above the 30 day limit on the uk passport. Even though there wont be fine at present, but things can change in thai overnight as we know. I can certainly do without an overstay stamp on my sons first uk passport. Thanks again to all concernedfor your advice.

[JASON THAI]

Providing that you are named as the father on the birth certificate and this was issued within a year of your son's birth, then yes. However, before you get a British passport for him, you will need to apply for his registration as a British citizen. NB: this is NOT the same as registering his birth at the British embassy.

Scouse.

Hi I am named on the birth certificate as the father, and this was issued a few weeks after he was born, how do I go about applying for registration as a British citizen for him can this be done in the UK or do I need to do this in Bangkok ?

Cheers

JT

Any answers guys

[the scouser]

Providing that you are named as the father on the birth certificate and this was issued within a year of your son's birth, then yes. However, before you get a British passport for him, you will need to apply for his registration as a British citizen. NB: this is NOT the same as registering his birth at the British embassy.

Scouse.

Hi I am named on the birth certificate as the father, and this was issued a few weeks after he was born, how do I go about applying for registration as a British citizen for him can this be done in the UK or do I need to do this in Bangkok ?

Cheers

JT

Any answers guys

..... If your son is in Thailand you will have to apply through the British embassy who then forward the papers to the BIA in Liverpool and you can expect a decision within about three months.

Scouse.

[sbk]

Providing that you are named as the father on the birth certificate and this was issued within a year of your son's birth, then yes. However, before you get a British passport for him, you will need to apply for his registration as a British citizen. NB: this is NOT the same as registering his birth at the British embassy.

Scouse.

Hi I am named on the birth certificate as the father, and this was issued a few weeks after he was born, how do I go about applying for registration as a British citizen for him can this be done in the UK or do I need to do this in Bangkok ?

Cheers

JT

Any answers guys

Birth registration page on the British embassy site doesn't say anything about this scouse. Whats the difference?

[the scouser]

Here goes....

Those born abroad who acquire British citizenship automatically can obtain a British passport simply upon application. If they so wish, they can also apply for a British birth certificate, but this is not compulsory. Registering the birth with the British embassy simply ensures that a record of the birth is placed with the General Register Office in the UK and it is the passport which is evidence of British nationality, not the birth certificate.

Those born abroad who do not automatically acquire British citizenship can neither apply for a British passport nor register the birth with the embassy: at that point in time they are not a British citizen. However, provision exists in UK legislation for the Secretary of State to bestow British citizenship upon those who don't automatically qualify, and register them as British citizens. This does not equate to registering the birth but, rather, issuing them with a certificate which defines them as being British which they may then use to apply for a British passport.

Because of a change in the law, those born abroad to at least one British parent on or after 1 July 2006 will, in most cases, be British by automatic acquisition and they may immediately apply for a passport and, if they so wish, have their birth registered with the embassy. However, those born before this date of an unmarried British father will not have a claim to automatic acquisition and will still have to apply to the Secretary of State for registration as a British citizen.

The embassy website states towards the bottom of the page:-

British Fathers, who are not married, can now apply to register children who are born abroad prior to 1 July 2006, with the Home Office. Please note this is discretionary. Those applying should expect to receive a decision in approximately 4 months. The fee for this will be £400 payable in local currency plus a Consular forwarding fee of Baht 4,248. Please ask us for form MN1 or obtain it from the Border and Immigration Agency.

As an aside, this page until recently was not only misleading, but downright wrong in its guidance, and it was TV member "Illegitimate Children" (in association with me ) who was instrumental in getting it changed. It's actually still wrong, but not to the extent that it was previously.

Scouse.