Renewing Non O Marriage, Thai Wife, Us Husband Under New Rule

[ctira]

Hi. I'm thai and my husband is american. we have been renewing the Non O marriage (pan-ra-ya-kon thai) visa as of June 2007 the second year. Recently a friend of ours who is british went to renew his visa and they turned him down cold and told him he had to to leave the country immediately. I'd say he is in the same situation as us. So now we are wondering when we go renew the visa next June whether they are going to kick my husband out of the country too.

My question is, what kind of proof are they going to ask from me? My husband does not have any income in Thailand. He files U.S. income tax return yearly but the money stays there. It seems they really have a problem when male is not making money in Thailand.

My monthly income is above the 40k requirement. However my company does not file the personal income tax (the por ngor dor 91 form).

I do have a bank book with automatic deposit from my company. Can i just use that with a letter from the bank stating that the money comes from my employer?

When we went renew last time (June 2007) there was no problem at all. We just use a book bank with 400k in there and my husband got a one year visa with no 90 day renewal. Are we in the grandfather clauses?

Thanks so much for any input. I am so confused

[lopburi3]

1. You should be able to use the 400k bank deposit method if you can not qualify using income (although some officials have said otherwise).

2. If your husband files tax returns he can fill out a statement of income at the US Embassy and swear to it. That is accepted by Immigration.

Although they may want to see it transferred rather that staying in the US.

3. Do not believe there is an exception of tax receipt proof if income is from within Thailand. Perhaps you could start filing tax returns and meet requirement.

4. In no case would your husband "have to leave"; except to obtain a new visa. As long as you are married he can obtain non immigrant visas to allow 90 day stays.

[opalhort]

My monthly income is above the 40k requirement. However my company does not file the personal income tax (the por ngor dor 91 form).

The responsibility of filing the 'por ngor dro 91' form rests with you and not the company! Filing has to be done by March 31 of each year. Some companies do the filing on behalf of their employees but most don't.

The company only has to file the monthly 'por ngor dor 1' and the 'por ngor dor 1 gor' at the end of the year, but they have to provide you with a paper stating the amount of tax which has been deducted from your salary over that past year at the source of payment. You will have to attach this paper when you file your 'por ngor dor 91 form'.

Since the next visa extension is due in June '08 you have time to have the relevant papers available by then.

If you have been grandfathered on the 400K bank deposit rule then try to stick with it since it involves a lot less paperwork, but be prepared to have the income info ready just in case the rules change at short notice.

I only speak from experience and hope the experts on TV will correct me if anything I wrote is not correct.

opalhort

Edited October 1, 2007 by opalhort

[ctira]

Thank you for your kind responses. I feel a lot better knowing that they have no right to just kick someone out!

Regarding the tax filing, I understand that I need to file it on my behalf. But seriously do you know any Thais who file them? And if they do, I doubt that they declare full amount as the tax rate is quite ridiculous (If you make well above 40k I believe you will be taxed at least 30%). I'm trying to avoid doing the tax filing since it's family business and I would hate seeing the government starting to ask for all sorts of paper works.

If the immigration bureau was satisfied with the 400k bank deposit that I showed them 3 months ago, does that mean I have been grandfathered?

My guess is they will probably change the rule again before we go renew the visa!

[HAL9000]

1. You should be able to use the 400k bank deposit method if you can not qualify using income (although some officials have said otherwise).

2. If your husband files tax returns he can fill out a statement of income at the US Embassy and swear to it. That is accepted by Immigration.

Although they may want to see it transferred rather that staying in the US.

3. Do not believe there is an exception of tax receipt proof if income is from within Thailand. Perhaps you could start filing tax returns and meet requirement.

4. In no case would your husband "have to leave"; except to obtain a new visa. As long as you are married he can obtain non immigrant visas to allow 90 day stays.

These points are also relevant to my situation. I am on a 90 day non-O visa based on my marriage after my arrival on July 15. My 90 days is up next week and we are going to BKK next week to request the 90 day extension. I have the 400K bank verification as specified by the police order 606, but as some here have reported that 400K is no longer honored, I also have the 40K statement from the US Embassy. But I have also heard that it is sometimes insufficient with additional supporting documents required, so we are also somewhat worried about getting denied.

If denied, we plan to travel to Penang since it is recently reported here that the 1 year non-O visa is easily obtained there. I was under the impression that a one year visa meant I could stay one year, but someone I spoke to here locally gave me the impression that I still have to renew it every 90 days. I'm not sure how that would be done. Any experience on that?

I didn't see anything at www.immigration.th.go requiring english documents to be submitted in Thai translation like we had to to get married. Are the translations required?

[lopburi3]

1. Police Order 606 only allows the 400k method for those in the system last year.

2. You will require the Embassy letter of income.

3. They are most likely to want to see a bank account showing that income is coming into Thailand in some form or fashion and a bank letter of account balance. If you don't have this yet I would still try as if new marriage they may be able to make exceptions and may not even require it at all.

4. You can request a one year extension of stay - not 90 days - at immigration. If approved you will likely receive 30 days and then return to receive the remainder.

5. Bring wife, her ID card and home register, your passport/arrival card, photos together inside/outside home with house number visible and clothing hung together to indicate living as husband and wife, marriage certificate and copies of everything signed by who they apply to. Be sure to have 4x6cm photo taken in last six months for the TM.7 form and 1,900 baht for the fee. If married in Thailand there are not normally any translations required.

6. If you have to go to Penang take the marriage certificate/copy, signed/dated copy of wife id card and bank passport showing the 400k and you will like receive a multi entry non immigrant O visa (if wife can travel with you make it a vacation and apply together). That visa allows unlimited number of entries and each entry can be up to 90 days for a one year period from date of issue. You would have to exit Thailand, enter other country/exit and return to Thailand for a new 90 day entry - can be done as a vacation or in a mater of minutes.

[ctira]

Yesterday I tried to call the immigration to verify the situation. As expected no one answered the phone (when do they!?)

So instead I called 1111 and was transfered to an expert on the immigration law. And was told that since I applied before October 2006 I only need to show the 400k savings. No 40K income and tax paper required. Only new applicants are required to show the monthly income. Can anyone confirm this?

4. In no case would your husband "have to leave"; except to obtain a new visa. As long as you are married he can obtain non immigrant visas to allow 90 day stays.

I have to disagree. My friend had to leave. He ended up having to do a border run to Cambodia, then hire a visa company to help him out with the situaiton, basically paying extra cash to immigration officer to give him a stamp. He's now back in Bangkok.

[lopburi3]

Those using the 400k before October 2006 are allowed to continue if they can not meet the 40k income requirement.

I thought my "except to obtain a new visa" would be clear. He did not need to hire anyone and only had to present proof of marriage type paperwork and normal payment to obtain a new visa for entry. This is a normal two day trip for many people living in Thailand.

[tutsiwarrior]

now I'm confused...

- in addition to the letter from the embassy verifying 40k baht monthly income immigration wants to see proof that the amount is also deposited into a thai bank account? Was this always a requirement?

- I have been married to my thai wife for over 7 years; does immigration still want to see 'cuddle' photos in front of the house, hanging up laundry together, etc?...sounds ludicrous for a couple either in or approaching middle age (however we all know that ludicrous and thai immigration policy are not mutually exclusive)

I want to get a non - o extension to get onto the PR ladder and will continue to work and live outside thailand with short visits home until at 60 y.o. the employment opportunities dry up...would thai immigration construe this arrangement as 'an abuse of the system'?

[lopburi3]

My statement was

2. If your husband files tax returns he can fill out a statement of income at the US Embassy and swear to it. That is accepted by Immigration.

Although they may want to see it transferred rather that staying in the US.

Some have been told to show and others have not. Believe a bank account with something coming in from outside Thailand will satisfy most.

There seems to be a catch up on photos recently (as decision making transfers to the district offices?) so if already done and in your file they may not be asked for again. But really not a big deal to have a few and avoid an extra trip. Expect prints from a phone would be acceptable.

Do not believe anyone would consider an extension of stay as abuse of the system - this is what is expected for those living here.

[samran]

Thank you for your kind responses. I feel a lot better knowing that they have no right to just kick someone out!

Regarding the tax filing, I understand that I need to file it on my behalf. But seriously do you know any Thais who file them? And if they do, I doubt that they declare full amount as the tax rate is quite ridiculous (If you make well above 40k I believe you will be taxed at least 30%). I'm trying to avoid doing the tax filing since it's family business and I would hate seeing the government starting to ask for all sorts of paper works.

If the immigration bureau was satisfied with the 400k bank deposit that I showed them 3 months ago, does that mean I have been grandfathered?

My guess is they will probably change the rule again before we go renew the visa!

whats the saying, death and taxes? Actually, lots of Thai's file tax returns these days, and it is becoming harder not to do so. The revenue department is one of the most efficient (and clean) arms of government these days, and pretty high tech.

Having worked for the MOF in the past, I do know the revenue department is taking a whole of government approach to these things. Any public policy text book will tell you a whole of government approach is a more effective way to govern. So you want to extend your visa for your hubby? Make sure you have done a tax return!!

Anyway, back on topic. Here is a link to an income tax calculator that i put together, and you'll see that on 40K per month, you'll be paying no more than 10% tax on that salary, not 30%. There are a number of deductions as well for investments you make in managed funds, pension funds, interest on housing loands, etc etc.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?ac...st&id=34841

This amounts to, at most, 28K per year in taxes, without deductions. With deductions, you'd be looking at 12-15K per year in taxes on a 40K per month salary.

I'm not sure how an average visa run is valued these days (as well as the time spent doing them), but I think the economics of it all may work out simply in favour of paying taxes.

[HAL9000]

Thanks for the help. I feel a lot better. Leaving in 2 hours!!!!!

1. Police Order 606 only allows the 400k method for those in the system last year.

2. You will require the Embassy letter of income.

3. They are most likely to want to see a bank account showing that income is coming into Thailand in some form or fashion and a bank letter of account balance. If you don't have this yet I would still try as if new marriage they may be able to make exceptions and may not even require it at all.

4. You can request a one year extension of stay - not 90 days - at immigration. If approved you will likely receive 30 days and then return to receive the remainder.

5. Bring wife, her ID card and home register, your passport/arrival card, photos together inside/outside home with house number visible and clothing hung together to indicate living as husband and wife, marriage certificate and copies of everything signed by who they apply to. Be sure to have 4x6cm photo taken in last six months for the TM.7 form and 1,900 baht for the fee. If married in Thailand there are not normally any translations required.

6. If you have to go to Penang take the marriage certificate/copy, signed/dated copy of wife id card and bank passport showing the 400k and you will like receive a multi entry non immigrant O visa (if wife can travel with you make it a vacation and apply together). That visa allows unlimited number of entries and each entry can be up to 90 days for a one year period from date of issue. You would have to exit Thailand, enter other country/exit and return to Thailand for a new 90 day entry - can be done as a vacation or in a mater of minutes.

[altman]

4. In no case would your husband "have to leave"; except to obtain a new visa. As long as you are married he can obtain non immigrant visas to allow 90 day stays.

this seems to say that if one is married to a thai, AND REGARDLESS of income or bank balance, a person can go outside thailand every three months and get a new non imm 'o' visa.

is that correct?

in another thread a person stated he got a marriage non imm 'o' from penang without showing any proof of income or bank balance, so the combination of posts seems to indicate that it is true.

if it is true, how many times can it be done?

Edited October 5, 2007 by altman

[lopburi3]

I have not heard of anyone yet, with Thai spouse, not being able to obtain at least a single entry visa or being limited in the number of times.