Pattaya Question

[morrobay]

As Stickman said this week- there are high up Thais in govt/business who are trying to change

Pattaya to a family/high end tourist destination.One way they are trying to do this is with alot of new mall construction. I dont think they are going to get the effect they are trying to cause.The supply and demand in the "entertainment business" is independent of malls. The question is:

Of the total foreign visitor spending in Pattaya including expats , in a one year period, what percent comes from those who are here primarily for the girls and what percent comes from those foreigners who are here for all other reasons besides the girls ?

[britmaveric]

Beach Resort? Until they clean up the beach/surrounding waters and road issues doubt much will change. Malls, unsure who is buying in the shops because I rarely see many people buying in them. However suppose someone must or they'd be out of business.

[OneMikeInBangkok]

It's the Chinese Goldshop Syndrome

Take a look at many areas of Bangkok and in the Shopping Malls

Someone opens a goldshop

Hey that's a good idea let's open a goldshop next door

Hey look there are a couple of goldshops on this street business must be good - let's open a goldshop

So it goes on

Let's open a shopping mall

Hey there is a shopping Mall - must be lot's of business let's open a shopping Mall next door.

SOmeone asked in another thread why there are no Watson's Boots etc in Jomtien

Cause these companies do their market research first - you got to have a customer base to open a store. Big store - big customer base - simple geography 101 & economics 101

Trouble with the Thais - they skipped 101 class

[bazmlb]

lets hope this isnt what they turn pattaya into

[torrenova]

As Stickman said this week

And there is your problem. Stickman is about as good predicting trends as sticking your head out of the window to see whether it is raining !

He was a monger who is a teacher living in Bangkok who supplements his income writing a website which needs to be sufficiently interesting to retain readership. He is no major economic power in this country.

Please do not go to Stickman's website and think you have found the hold grail ! What about notstickmanbangkok.com ?

The guy is an english teacher for fcuks sake. An honorable profession in itself but very near the bottom of the ladder in income or economic terms in Thailand. He certainly does not have his finger on the button in Pattaya.

To answer the original question. Imagine if you can, a Pattaya without the female attraction. Now what is there which would make you come to Pattaya ?

Answer = nothing. There are a thousand better places in Thailand that even the dumbest people can find.

[pattyboy]

I really think that if the Thai gov't took the girlie bars out of Pattaya, they would create a ghost town.

As another OP said, the place has a dirty beach and the general infrastructure is a joke. Maybe the only reason we see any families in Pattaya is because they want to see this legendary city -- legendary because of the girlie bars.

I have been told that Pattaya was a sleepy little fishing village not too many years ago, but it has grown leaps and bounds because of...Can you guess?...Right!...the girlie bars.

[Humphrey Bear]

I really think that if the Thai gov't took the girlie bars out of Pattaya, they would create a ghost town.

As another OP said, the place has a dirty beach and the general infrastructure is a joke. Maybe the only reason we see any families in Pattaya is because they want to see this legendary city -- legendary because of the girlie bars.

I have been told that Pattaya was a sleepy little fishing village not too many years ago, but it has grown leaps and bounds because of...Can you guess?...Right!...the girlie bars.

I visited in the 70s - package tours from Iran, with my family (as was). We stayed in a hotel on Beach Road (Holiday Inn, I think) and TQ was the only go-go that i knew of.

We used to stroll across a traffic-free Beach Road to the beach - catch a boat to the islands and have a good day out. But no-one stayed on Pattaya Beach even then - a few hawkers selling t-shirts and sari-style wrap-arounds - it was a pleasant small town. But no real attractions for tourists and our tour (mostly Iranians) was looking forward to the Hong Kong and Singapore sections of the package. We had trips out from Pattaya in the three or four days we were there, simply because the place itself had no attractions other than the islands.

And in the intervening thirty years none of the infrastructure has improved. Got bigger, more unwieldy, yes. Improved, no.

[Humphrey Bear]

lets hope this isnt what they turn pattaya into

Please don't let those photos get to the Mayor - it's what he dreams of each night instead of bar-girls.

[barryofthailand]

If the new malls are anything like the Avenue, I can see them all going broke. Maybe tourists might visit these places once, but for the expats, I don;t think they will be patronizing these places at western pricing.

Barry

[Ulysses G.]

SOmeone asked in another thread why there are no Watson's Boots etc in Jomtien

Cause these companies do their market research first - you got to have a customer base to open a store. Big store - big customer base - simple geography 101 & economics 101

Boots and Starbucks moved in between a bunch of coffee places and drug stores at Thapae Gate in Chiang Mai and both pay BIG rents and hardly get a customer inside.

Edited October 2, 2007 by Ulysses G.

[Humphrey Bear]

Boots in Pattaya - both Walking Street and RGP - always seem empty.

I go in sometimes, when I know of a British medicament that I am sure works for me, but mostly I patronise the local pharmacy and get strange Thai products that send me to sleep for a week or so.

[britmaveric]

It's bizarre thinking, two malls directly across from each other then another mall a few kms down the road from the other two. I can't see the logic or more importantly the customers.

RGP for example always has heaps in it simply because people use it to get to/from beach/second rd.

[farangfool]

It's bizarre thinking, two malls directly across from each other then another mall a few kms down the road from the other two. I can't see the logic or more importantly the customers.

RGP for example always has heaps in it simply because people use it to get to/from beach/second rd.

Royal Garden Plaza has a decent cinema at 70-80 baht as opposed for precisely the same movie at 120 baht (Central Festival) and 140 across the street. That's a big plus.

[britmaveric]

It's bizarre thinking, two malls directly across from each other then another mall a few kms down the road from the other two. I can't see the logic or more importantly the customers.

RGP for example always has heaps in it simply because people use it to get to/from beach/second rd.

Royal Garden Plaza has a decent cinema at 70-80 baht as opposed for precisely the same movie at 120 baht (Central Festival) and 140 across the street. That's a big plus.

Oh yes and Ripley's.

[Beardog]

It's bizarre thinking, two malls directly across from each other then another mall a few kms down the road from the other two. I can't see the logic or more importantly the customers.

RGP for example always has heaps in it simply because people use it to get to/from beach/second rd.

Same reason why you see 4-6 beauty salons in a 2 block radius......Thai logic

[NanLaew]

It's bizarre thinking, two malls directly across from each other then another mall a few kms down the road from the other two. I can't see the logic or more importantly the customers.

RGP for example always has heaps in it simply because people use it to get to/from beach/second rd.

ya think? how many malls next to each other in any big US city, or Singapore for that matter?

rgp has heaps in it because it has no real competition.

"if you build it, they will come"

[NanLaew]

lets hope this isnt what they turn pattaya into

Please don't let those photos get to the Mayor - it's what he dreams of each night instead of bar-girls.

sorry to say but they were cutting down loads of trees on jomtien beach a couple of days ago so i expect a rash of beach umbrellas to break out in time for high season

[NanLaew]

It's the Chinese Goldshop Syndrome

Take a look at many areas of Bangkok and in the Shopping Malls

Someone opens a goldshop

Hey that's a good idea let's open a goldshop next door

Hey look there are a couple of goldshops on this street business must be good - let's open a goldshop

So it goes on

Let's open a shopping mall

Hey there is a shopping Mall - must be lot's of business let's open a shopping Mall next door.

SOmeone asked in another thread why there are no Watson's Boots etc in Jomtien

Cause these companies do their market research first - you got to have a customer base to open a store. Big store - big customer base - simple geography 101 & economics 101

Trouble with the Thais - they skipped 101 class

And where does the 7-eleven franchise model fit into your tainted and challenged hypothesis?

[OneMikeInBangkok]

It's the Chinese Goldshop Syndrome

Take a look at many areas of Bangkok and in the Shopping Malls

Someone opens a goldshop

Hey that's a good idea let's open a goldshop next door

Hey look there are a couple of goldshops on this street business must be good - let's open a goldshop

So it goes on

Let's open a shopping mall

Hey there is a shopping Mall - must be lot's of business let's open a shopping Mall next door.

SOmeone asked in another thread why there are no Watson's Boots etc in Jomtien

Cause these companies do their market research first - you got to have a customer base to open a store. Big store - big customer base - simple geography 101 & economics 101

Trouble with the Thais - they skipped 101 class

And where does the 7-eleven franchise model fit into your tainted and challenged hypothesis?

7/11 - completely different type of retail outlet. The catchment area for a 7/11 can be measured in terms of a few hundred yards. The same as the original mom and pop stores that survived on almost every street corner.

Specialist stores like a Boots Pharmacy or a supermarket will measure their potential catchment area in kilometers. Hence you don't see a Tesco opening another Tesco within a few kilometers of another Tesco store. However you may see the likes of Carrfour attempting to do this to take market share away from say a Tesco as you see for example on Rama IV in Bangkok.

It's not my tainted or challenged theory just a few simple principles picked up in a Geography 101 class at university.

My comments about Thais not understanding this does come from experience of teaching Geography in Thai Universities. Quite simply Thai students don't have a clue.

Example: Geography GCSE paper question one.

The student is given a map of Australia with population density marked in different shades and a key. The student is asked to mark the boxes to show the different desities 1-50 per sq km, 50-100 per sq km, 100+ per sq km

After 30 minutes the student has not put pen to paper. I asked him why?

This question is stupid teacher (The question not the teacher)

Why?

Because I don't know where Australia is

Another student jumps up and announces proudly that she knows where Australia is.

Australia is next to Germany!!!!!!!

[plasticpig]

It's the Chinese Goldshop Syndrome

Take a look at many areas of Bangkok and in the Shopping Malls

Someone opens a goldshop

Hey that's a good idea let's open a goldshop next door

Hey look there are a couple of goldshops on this street business must be good - let's open a goldshop

So it goes on

Let's open a shopping mall

Hey there is a shopping Mall - must be lot's of business let's open a shopping Mall next door.

SOmeone asked in another thread why there are no Watson's Boots etc in Jomtien

Cause these companies do their market research first - you got to have a customer base to open a store. Big store - big customer base - simple geography 101 & economics 101

Trouble with the Thais - they skipped 101 class

And where does the 7-eleven franchise model fit into your tainted and challenged hypothesis?

7/11 - completely different type of retail outlet. The catchment area for a 7/11 can be measured in terms of a few hundred yards. The same as the original mom and pop stores that survived on almost every street corner.

Specialist stores like a Boots Pharmacy or a supermarket will measure their potential catchment area in kilometers. Hence you don't see a Tesco opening another Tesco within a few kilometers of another Tesco store. However you may see the likes of Carrfour attempting to do this to take market share away from say a Tesco as you see for example on Rama IV in Bangkok.

It's not my tainted or challenged theory just a few simple principles picked up in a Geography 101 class at university.

My comments about Thais not understanding this does come from experience of teaching Geography in Thai Universities. Quite simply Thai students don't have a clue.

Example: Geography GCSE paper question one.

The student is given a map of Australia with population density marked in different shades and a key. The student is asked to mark the boxes to show the different desities 1-50 per sq km, 50-100 per sq km, 100+ per sq km

After 30 minutes the student has not put pen to paper. I asked him why?

This question is stupid teacher (The question not the teacher)

Why?

Because I don't know where Australia is

Another student jumps up and announces proudly that she knows where Australia is.

Australia is next to Germany!!!!!!!

[mikethevigoman]

It's bizarre thinking, two malls directly across from each other then another mall a few kms down the road from the other two. I can't see the logic or more importantly the customers.

RGP for example always has heaps in it simply because people use it to get to/from beach/second rd.

ya think? how many malls next to each other in any big US city, or Singapore for that matter?

rgp has heaps in it because it has no real competition.

"if you build it, they will come"

This was a worry for car dealerships in the 90s in the uk when they nearly all were moved into one industrial estate or area so that they were all together, it worked, they all immediatly did more business, strange but true, somebody had obviously done their homework,.

[gharknes]

pattaya will never be a family resort unless they knock it down - move it - rebuild it - and increase standards in every single way

oh and just to mention, i went to koh larn yesterday for the first time in about 9 months - boy has that place got expensive, to sit on a beach have a few light meals and non alcohal drinks ran up a bill of almost 1000baht, they are taking the piss, never again.

[Spaniel]

What makes you think stickman knows what he's talking about? I've read his stuff. Pretty boring.

[morrobay]

What makes you think stickman knows what he's talking about? I've read his stuff. Pretty boring.

Im only agreeing with what Stickman said. In my original post if you replace the line " As Stickman said this week" With " It seems to me like"

Then what follows is a viewpoint I have had for at least a year: That high ups in business and government want to change Pattaya to a family and high- end tourist destination . IMO there are high up Thais who are ashamed of the reputation Thailand has and especially Pattaya. Mabey all this mall and 4-5 star hotel construction is for business only and mabey not.

[mamanoodle]

7 eleven franchise sets up a few doors down or across the road from other 7 elevens or family marts

[Kerryd]

Just to add my 2 satangs worth.

1 (satang) - Remember that a lot (in fact, most I'll bet) of what is on Stickman's site comes from contributors. People that call/email him with bits of gossip/news/rumours etc. which he then puts on his site.

2 (satangs) - While there are no doubt some high-up Thais that are not too happy with Pattaya's reputation, there are probably just as many who are happy with it, especially those whose bank accounts swell every time high season rolls around. Not too mention that, despite it's supposedly poor reputation, every weekend (especially on holidays) the highways from Bangkok to Pattaya are literally jammed with.........you guessed it.......THAIS coming to Pattaya to party.

3 (satangs) OK, this one is free. Obviously, many people in different social classes and levels of government would love to get rid of Pattaya's "seedy" reputation. It would seem that there are just as many, if not more, pragmatists that realise they would never be able to replace the lost tourism revenue that would disappear along with the "seediness". Face it, there really isn't a lot to attract people to Pattaya for a family vacation. Some golf for dad. Some shopping for mom. A couple of attractions for the kids (i.e. crocodile farm). Local beaches aren't that great, and tend to be crowded enough as it is during high season. Families looking for a vacation spot could just as easily go to Phuket/Krabi/Bali or other places.

In 2005, something along the lines of 5.3 million tourists visited Pattaya (66% being foreigners), stayed an average of 3.4 days there and spent an average of just over 2,800 baht per day. TAT estimates those tourists contributed about 48.5 billion baht to the economy (1.5 billion US approx). That's a lot of money that could disappear, and be hard to replace with a couple of tourist attractions and over-crowded, dirty beaches.

Wow. 5.3 million tourists in one year. That's an average of 14,520 people arriving/departing every day of the year. Obviously, it's less than that during low season, which of course means it's considerably higher than that during high season.

66% of that being foreigners equals almost 9,600 per day. If an average airline holds about 400 people, that would equal 24 loaded flights per day. I'm surprised Pattaya doesn't have it's own International Airport just across the Suk ! (hmmmm, I wonder if I could sell that idea to the powers that be..............)