Police Volunteers

[Mobi]

...as Peter Lloyd has pointed out...

I think what Peter Lloyd wrote is rubbish. He could have walked into the police station if he wanted to know the job description of the Volunteer Police, but obviously that's not what he wanted to know or perhaps he knew already. Instead he expresses his amazement at the fact that they made no arrests, when it is widely know that they have no power to make arrests, and that they did not interfere with petty Thai criminals or carry out covert surveillance. As I said, rubbish.

Who is this Peter Lloyd, anyway? And the editor of the "much maligned Pattaya press" should have know better than to print his silly story.

And the OP should have known better than to post it here. His true motive is perhaps hidden in this phrase in his second post in this topic: "I've never been great lover of police...". Anybody thinking that the OP started this topic hoping for abusive posts about the Volunteer Police can be forgiven for thinking it.

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Maestro

So, just because I have said where I stand on this, that means that I am hoping for abusive posts?

I believe that to be an extremely unfair accusation, as everything I have written has indicated the opposite,and your suggestion belies all logic. And this from a moderator.......

What I was hoping, and indeed what has happened, is that we have at long last got some sort of decent discussion going on this subject, and even some input from those involved, despite your attempts to hijack it by accusing the journalist of saying things he didn't say.

Even George has thanked us for having an intelligent discussion yet you are suggesting the thread be closed.

Methinks we may be forgiven for thinking that you are the one with a hidden agenda here

Let's hope the thread stays open, as I for one am learning something, and I really appreciate the input from Howard etc.

Edited October 3, 2007 by Mobi

[Prakanong]

Maybe when some of these volunteer's wear T-Shirts emblazened with words like "SWAT Tactical Team" it might just give the wrong impression or even the impression of their drives, motives and wannabee's.

I once saw that TV Presenter from Nottingham prancing around in one at trhe entrance to WS.

[wcr]

The Foreign Police Volunteers (FPV) are based in Soi 9 Police Station. They are located at their own desk inside the police reception. Their role is to assist any foreigner who attends the police station. They guide them through procedures and show them to the relevant departments. They assist in translations. They get involved in interviews of foreign nationals if asked to do so by the Thai Police where there is a communication problem.

I am unable to discuss individual cases, but the FPV's have been involved in sorting out financial disputes between foreigners and Thai's following crashes/accidents etc where the original asking price was reduced greatly after FPV involvement. Also, 2 FPV saved an Englishmans life recently after he suffered a heart attack in the Police Station. They gave him CPR and got his heart restarted. What do you think would have happened if they weren't there? They give out information about Embassy's etc when people loose passports. I can assure you that the majority of people who have to go to Soi 9 police station are releaved when they see a FPV there, someone they can talk to and understand. Someone who will walk them through the procedures if need be.

The FPV do not patrol the streets, unlike the TPV's. The FPV's are part of the Royal Thai Police and have ID Cards showing this.

I can understand some peoples views on the foreign volunteers. There is a difference however between the work of the two sets of volunteers. I have not met any FPV so far that is a power crazy neo-nazi. All I have met are there to help the foreigner, and also to assist the Thai police with language problems and taking some of the work load from them.

[sriracha john]

Thank you for that information on FPV, wcr.

It would seem that the OP article and subsequent posts are mainly questioning the issue of TPV.

[Prakanong]

The Foreign Police Volunteers (FPV) are based in Soi 9 Police Station. They are located at their own desk inside the police reception. Their role is to assist any foreigner who attends the police station. They guide them through procedures and show them to the relevant departments. They assist in translations. They get involved in interviews of foreign nationals if asked to do so by the Thai Police where there is a communication problem.

I am unable to discuss individual cases, but the FPV's have been involved in sorting out financial disputes between foreigners and Thai's following crashes/accidents etc where the original asking price was reduced greatly after FPV involvement. Also, 2 FPV saved an Englishmans life recently after he suffered a heart attack in the Police Station. They gave him CPR and got his heart restarted. What do you think would have happened if they weren't there? They give out information about Embassy's etc when people loose passports. I can assure you that the majority of people who have to go to Soi 9 police station are releaved when they see a FPV there, someone they can talk to and understand. Someone who will walk them through the procedures if need be.

The FPV do not patrol the streets, unlike the TPV's. The FPV's are part of the Royal Thai Police and have ID Cards showing this.

I can understand some peoples views on the foreign volunteers. There is a difference however between the work of the two sets of volunteers. I have not met any FPV so far that is a power crazy neo-nazi. All I have met are there to help the foreigner, and also to assist the Thai police with language problems and taking some of the work load from them.

Thanks you very much for the explaination and clarification.

I have only seen the TPV running around - some in their SWAT t-shirts and others with handcuffs and other paraphanalia attached to belts.

The FPV seem to be useful and based where they are required.

[suiging]

May I suggest to the posters from the two organizations, separately or collectively get together and insist that their employers display their powers prominently to the public. This can be done through the pattaya media and on the notice boards of hotels and guest houses in the area. The powers and statement of why the organizations exist, should certainly be prominently on display in all Police stations in Pattaya.

This transparency would not only lead to a greater understanding of the work done by all who are skeptical or pro the groups, but also would serve as a method to curb any potential abuse of power as tourists and residents alike would know what can or cannot be done by the volunteers.

keeping any organization in the shadows of law enforcement without a clear statement of powers and intent, is a recipe for disaster in the long run. It is not good enough that many long term residents have only by threads such as this been enlightened of the process.

[wcr]

BTW, before I am accused of it, I am not making any suggestion that the FPV's are better than the TPV's. I just pointed out the role of the FPV's as I know it is different to that of the TPV's.

[johnh101]

So we seem to have a good explanation of what the Foreign Police Volunteers do, but are still a little sticky on the TPV's.

I like many hope this threads can stay within the bounds of decent conversation and not resort the usual flame wars that will only result in premature closure.

[Jai Dee]

Let's hope the thread stays open, as I for one am learning something, and I really appreciate the input from Howard etc.

I too am interested in learning more about the differences between these organisations and their role definitions.

Whether the original article is correct or not doesn't really matter, as many reports from the local press on other issues are sensationalised and misleading.

As have been posted by both members and admin/mods, please keep the discussions in this thread civil and respectful... and the thread can stay open for discussion... who knows, maybe we can all learn something new.

[percy2]

The Foreign Police Volunteers (FPV) are based in Soi 9 Police Station. They are located at their own desk inside the police reception. Their role is to assist any foreigner who attends the police station. They guide them through procedures and show them to the relevant departments. They assist in translations. They get involved in interviews of foreign nationals if asked to do so by the Thai Police where there is a communication problem.

I am unable to discuss individual cases, but the FPV's have been involved in sorting out financial disputes between foreigners and Thai's following crashes/accidents etc where the original asking price was reduced greatly after FPV involvement. Also, 2 FPV saved an Englishmans life recently after he suffered a heart attack in the Police Station. They gave him CPR and got his heart restarted. What do you think would have happened if they weren't there? They give out information about Embassy's etc when people loose passports. I can assure you that the majority of people who have to go to Soi 9 police station are releaved when they see a FPV there, someone they can talk to and understand. Someone who will walk them through the procedures if need be.

The FPV do not patrol the streets, unlike the TPV's. The FPV's are part of the Royal Thai Police and have ID Cards showing this.

I can understand some peoples views on the foreign volunteers. There is a difference however between the work of the two sets of volunteers. I have not met any FPV so far that is a power crazy neo-nazi. All I have met are there to help the foreigner, and also to assist the Thai police with language problems and taking some of the work load from them.

Looking forward to a similar post from someone in the TPV.

Cheers

[h5n1]

Seems like not a week goes by that PCN does not have some Thai Vol Police apprehended for some abuse.

As for the farang police they service no function what so ever. They cannot detain, arrest, make report, make a complaint and 1 in 20 can speak only a bit of Thai. No police or para/military experience neccessary. All they do is hang out on walking street with sullen looks on their faces. I would argue that they are a danger and lull foreign tourists into a false sense of security as well.

In the end, they have no business arresting Thai nationals for anything. Could you imaging being arrested by a foreign national in your home country?!?!?

Finally - I TOTALLY do not understand the need for volunteer police. All the police need do is:

Go to BKK and get a loan for XXXXXX baht

Hire 250 'traffic' police

2 impound vehicles and a yard

First 3 months hand out warnings

Come down hard on any/every traffic abuse and triple the current fines thereafter

have the new revenue cover the above plus the thai 'volunteer' police. Now Thailand has a full-on REAL and professional force. This is a city with REAL PROBLEMS. I bet the murder rate = many american cities w/ 10x the population.

The farang police dont count, they are only for show anyway. What sort of person would want to spend their evenings bored witless on walking street or worse yet semi involved in rounding up poor thai nationals for misdemeanors. Something just not right about that.

If the foreign police want to make themselves of service they can make sting operations on all the people (primarily Indian/Bangladeshi) working for Quality Intl that constantly hassle people on 2nd and Beach road. Now THAT would be of service! ...........Speak English??

[wcr]

Finally - I TOTALLY do not understand the need for volunteer police. All the police need do is:

Well you obviously didn't read my post did you? There certainly is a need. Just spend one shift at the Police Station in Soi 9 and you'll see for yourself.

[PattayaParent]

If the TPV are on WS to assist Farangs why do they have to be built like bouncers?

Surely if there's any trouble it's the Thai police that should be subduing the unruly/drunk/whatever Farang and all the TPV has to do is explain to him his rights and and the process that he is going to face at the police station, and maybe even accompany him until he can get assistance from the FPV. You don't need to be a bouncer to do that.

wcr - do you need to have any police/military experience to be a FPV? What about Thai language ability? Do you need to be intimidatingly large like the TPV?

[wcr]

If the TPV are on WS to assist Farangs why do they have to be built like bouncers?

Surely if there's any trouble it's the Thai police that should be subduing the unruly/drunk/whatever Farang and all the TPV has to do is explain to him his rights and and the process that he is going to face at the police station, and maybe even accompany him until he can get assistance from the FPV. You don't need to be a bouncer to do that.

wcr - do you need to have any police/military experience to be a FPV? What about Thai language ability? Do you need to be intimidatingly large like the TPV?

PattayaParent - I don't want to make any comments on the TPV's, I don't think its right to do that. The FPV's do not need to have a police or military background. I do have one as do some others. You also do not need to have any Thai language skills, but again many do, and also many speak several languages. Basically you need to have common sence, know your way around the police station and understand proceedures.

[Maestro]

...Actually the article does NOT begin off talking about Thai volunteers.

Just for the record, from the Pattaya news article by Peter Lloyd quoted in the OP, first paragraph of the article:

...Recently, I was watching a couple of games of football in a bar fronting Walking Street, where I was surprised to see gangs of black shirt-clad tourist police volunteers sauntering along, mob-handed, chatting, seemingly oblivious to the lawlessness around them...

“gangs”, plural

“mob-handed”, definition: U.K. in large group: in a large, often threatening group of people ( informal )

If this is the TPV’s regular behaviour, how come nobody else seems to have observed it?

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Maestro

[sriracha john]

From my observations of their activity, that's a Common SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) for TPV, although I wouldn't necessarily call them large groups.

[Jimmyd]

So often I hear that volunteering is work so that if you want to do it you are required to have a work permit. Do Foreign Police Volunteers have work permits? If not, are they exempted from the law?

[Maestro]

The members of the Foreign Police Volunteers, I presume, are foreigners. From ThaiVisa members’ observations, are the Tourist Police Volunteers in Pattaya Thai or foreigners?

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Maestro

[Prakanong]

The members of the Foreign Police Volunteers, I presume, are foreigners. From ThaiVisa members' observations, are the Tourist Police Volunteers in Pattaya Thai or foreigners?

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Maestro

If its the guys at the entrance to WS etc then I have seen a mix of both Thai and foreigner.

[Maestro]

…Surely if there's any trouble it's the Thai police that should be subduing the unruly/drunk/whatever Farang and all the TPV has to do is explain to him his rights and and the process that he is going to face at the police station, and maybe even accompany him until he can get assistance from the FPV.

Agreed. It’s Peter Lloyd, the author of the article quoted in the OP, who thinks otherwise. He thinks, and writes, that the Tourist Police Volunteers

1. should have done something about “a small slave-child selling chewing gum to tourists, and her young handler”

2. should have interfered with “the trade of the card-carrying sex menu people”

3. should have done something about “beggars [who] used small babies and children as their economic slaves to beg in the alley leading to Marine Plaza”

4. should carry out “discrete undercover surveillance”

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Maestro

[Maestro]

…Seems like not a week goes by that PCN does not have some Thai Vol Police apprehended for some abuse.

What or who is the PCN?

To the above member, it seems like every week a Thai Police Volunteer gets apprehended for abuse. I presume he means in Pattaya, since this is the Pattaya forum. Can anyone knowledgeable about Pattaya confirm that this is happening, with this frequency?

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Maestro

[Jai Dee]

What or who is the PCN?

The PCN is the Pattaya City News.

[Maestro]

…May I suggest to the posters from the two organizations, separately or collectively get together and insist that their employers display their powers prominently to the public. This can be done through the pattaya media and on the notice boards of hotels and guest houses in the area. The powers and statement of why the organizations exist, should certainly be prominently on display in all Police stations in Pattaya…

That’s good idea, in my opinion.

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Maestro

[wineman]

I am a Foreign Police volunteer and as such am based solely in Pattaya police station, Soi 9.

As has been explained above, it’s not our role to patrol, make arrests, work undercover, etc., BUT IT IS our role to assist any farang/foreigner who attends the police station for whatever reason.

When a farang/foreigner comes into the police station and spots our sign, he/she makes a bee-line to our desk relieved that the chances are there won’t be a language barrier to contend with. If there is we can usually make a call to a colleague who does speak a particular language.

Hopefully the list below will give you an idea of the type of instances we cover; it is by no means definitive.

I don’t know why I’ve been arrested.

I’ve lost some important documents.

I think my friend/brother/father/…. has been arrested. How can I find out?

I’m very angry because the police don’t understand what I’m saying.”

What the hel_l is this traffic ticket for?

I’ve been robbed, who do I see?

400 BHT for no helmet! I’m not paying that, they must be joking!

My friend’s run off with my money, who do I see?

Can you help me make a report?

I’m lost and don’t know how to get to ……”.

I’ve been in a traffic accident, can you help with the negotiations?

What’s the phone number of ………?

I don't know the name of the officer investigating such-snd-such, but I want to speak to him.

How can I get so-and-so arrested for overcharging me?

I’ve just realised I’ve overstayed, what do I do?

What exactly is bail bond insurance and where can I get it?

Such-and-such has happened, do I need a lawyer? Where can I get one?

I’ve got to go to such-and-such Embassy but have run out of money. Can you help?

How do I get a Thai driving license?

How do I get a ………….visa?

My friend/…. Is in a cell here, can I give him/her this?

Where’s a toilet?

I hope you now understand how we are fulfilling our promise to help farangs/foreigners, and at the same time relieving some of the workload of the police.

[Maestro]

Maybe when some of these volunteer's wear T-Shirts emblazened with words like "SWAT Tactical Team"..

...I have only seen the TPV running around - some in their SWAT t-shirts...

What is really emblazoned on the t-shirts of the Tourist Police Volunteers? Woudn’t t be nice to have some facts? (Today, I am in the mood for facts)

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Maestro

[monty]

…Seems like not a week goes by that PCN does not have some Thai Vol Police apprehended for some abuse.

What or who is the PCN?

To the above member, it seems like every week a Thai Police Volunteer gets apprehended for abuse. I presume he means in Pattaya, since this is the Pattaya forum. Can anyone knowledgeable about Pattaya confirm that this is happening, with this frequency?

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Maestro

Unfortunately it seems that their vetting system is not failproof. A little goole search of one of the Pattaya news websites gives you the following articles.

http://www.google.com/custom?domains=www.p...D%3A1&hl=en

Within the first page of the results not one positive article comes out, and the volunteers seem to be involved in anything from extortion to being an accomplice to murder!

Which is why I believe police volunteer programs are most often problematic...

Two little disclaimers, because of the nature of news reporting it are mostly negative things showing up, secondly, the articles are only mentioning the Thai volunteers and NOT the foreign volunteers we are discussing in this thread.

[moo9]

Serious question:

How do I become a Foreign Police volunteer? Where to apply, what do I have to provide etc. etc.

Thanks.

[Prakanong]

Maybe when some of these volunteer's wear T-Shirts emblazened with words like "SWAT Tactical Team"..

...I have only seen the TPV running around - some in their SWAT t-shirts...

What is really emblazoned on the t-shirts of the Tourist Police Volunteers? Woudn't t be nice to have some facts? (Today, I am in the mood for facts)

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Maestro

Not all of the time but I have seen people in "SWAT" t-shirts.

One of whom I beleive has posted in this thread and is a regular TV presenter.

There were others and this was right at the entrance to WS beside the police caravan or whatever it is and the desk the volunteer's man.

This would have been July/August 2006 as I have not been there since.

I doubt they are issued with tese and most probably had them made up themselves - to do this i beleive provides some insight into the mentality of some of the volunteer's - are gthey obsessed with speacial weapons and tactics - an american term when i thought they might be more used to SO19 at home!

There was also a lone western guy who was identified as some type of volunteer with the police who entered the Shamrock Bar. He was all in black and had a lot of accesories shall we say on his belt. It was remarked by some at the time that they thought the volunteers should not be carrying handcuff's.

It was also a undercover western police volunteer who made the purchase of Viagra (or generic) in a sting operation from the manager of Shamrock Bar about 1 year earlier that lead to his arrest and sacking (to the delight of many)

Edited October 3, 2007 by Prakanong

[Jai Dee]

Two little disclaimers, because of the nature of news reporting it are mostly negative things showing up, secondly, the articles are only mentioning the Thai volunteers and NOT the foreign volunteers we are discussing in this thread.

Good point and worthy of note.

[Maestro]

The PCN is the Pattaya City News.

Thank you for the link.

I’ve done some search on that site and found three reports about problems with “Pattaya Police Volunteers”, without indication whether they are about the Foreign Police Volunteers or the Tourist Police Volunteers but the names of the offenders sound Thai. Two reports in July, one in August, and there may be others I have not seen. Not weekly, but still frequent enough to be of concern, also to the Police.

Report of 18th July

Report of 23rd July

Report of 29th August

Police concerned

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Maestro