Teaching As A Career

[howtoescape]

I am looking into the teaching as a Plan B, though if i were to resort to this plan i would want to give it my all and get to the top of th profession, or at least reach the "glass ceiling".

I have no degree so TEFL or a similar programme would be the starting point for me.

Whilst i am aware this would only get me a 25k a month job in private language school, it would no doubt be a good a place as any to learn the skills of talking to a class and give a good grounding for preparing and organising a lesson.

Now i have seen the TEFL diploma advertised so i am presuming this is the next step, does this diploma have much respect amongst the next tier of schools? I am guessing with only a TEFL behind me it wouldn’t.

So if i jump ahead a year or 2 and i have my TEFL and diploma and over a years teaching experience, would these qualifications be enough to gain acceptance onto the MA TEFL or similar course?

Now are the MA TEFL or similar courses held in high regard and what doors would they open, are these qualifications the holy grail that employers offering the higher paid jobs in International schools want?

Or is the only way to get a top teaching job in BKK to get qualified in dreary old England?

If anyone has started from scratch in their teaching career and taken this kind of route i would be interested to hear your experiences, was it worth the sacrifice and what position you are in now.

[wasabi]

I am looking into the teaching as a Plan B, though if i were to resort to this plan i would want to give it my all and get to the top of th profession, or at least reach the "glass ceiling".

I have no degree so TEFL or a similar programme would be the starting point for me.

Whilst i am aware this would only get me a 25k a month job in private language school, it would no doubt be a good a place as any to learn the skills of talking to a class and give a good grounding for preparing and organising a lesson.

Now i have seen the TEFL diploma advertised so i am presuming this is the next step, does this diploma have much respect amongst the next tier of schools? I am guessing with only a TEFL behind me it wouldn’t.

So if i jump ahead a year or 2 and i have my TEFL and diploma and over a years teaching experience, would these qualifications be enough to gain acceptance onto the MA TEFL or similar course?

Now are the MA TEFL or similar courses held in high regard and what doors would they open, are these qualifications the holy grail that employers offering the higher paid jobs in International schools want?

Or is the only way to get a top teaching job in BKK to get qualified in dreary old England?

If anyone has started from scratch in their teaching career and taken this kind of route i would be interested to hear your experiences, was it worth the sacrifice and what position you are in now.

I don't think you will get far without a Bachelor degree and you definitely can't go into the MA TEFL program without one, though you possibly could get a TEFL diploma.

[Manchester]

As above. Try to get a degree. The International schools tend to recruit mostly from overseas and a degree in Education is preferred.

[mbkudu]

Wow. This must the month for dreamers in this forum; lots of them. This is probably the worst time ever to be looking for a teaching job in Thailand without a bachelor's degree. Four or five years ago, even maybe three years ago it was doable. The door is pretty much closed. Like an above poster said, you can't get on an MA program without a BA except in rare circumstances, and any legitimate post graduate tefl diploma means just that, post graduate. I'm not saying I'm some kind of visionary or anything of the sort, but I have past experience here and I saw quite a few years ago that without a degree, I was going nowhere fast. Now I'm almost done with the degree, and that's just restarting all over again. It'll be easier this time though.

[PeaceBlondie]

I knew an outstanding student who could have become a neurosurgeon or governor, but she only wanted to become a professional educator. She got pregnant in her final year of high school, but four years later, graduated from a good uni with a BA (honours) as a fully qualified teacher. By the time her third baby was born, she had an M.Ed., tenure as a teacher, etc. She refused to go into management, and still teaches in the classroom. Her first baby is 23 now...she's my daughter.

But those recent dreamers that mbkudu is talking about, reached age 21 or 25 with no higher education, or with paperwork far less than a BA/BS or BEd. They want to become professional, career educators. The best advice might be, if you're not already stuck here, go back home. Get a B.Ed and practice teaching and full govt. certification. Don't come to Thailand except to vacation.

What worries me is the huge number of guys who come here without full paperwork, start a family while subsisting on low wages, and then want to advance through the non-existent, malfunctional system of TEFL in Thailand. That's a very tough row to hoe, as the farmers say. Even if you have a real BA or BS that is unrelated to teaching, the PGCE or its equivalent is no easy thing to earn whilst in Thailand. Good luck, you married guys.

[Neeranam]

I knew an outstanding student who could have become a neurosurgeon or governor, but she only wanted to become a professional educator. She got pregnant in her final year of high school, but four years later, graduated from a good uni with a BA (honours) as a fully qualified teacher. By the time her third baby was born, she had an M.Ed., tenure as a teacher, etc. She refused to go into management, and still teaches in the classroom. Her first baby is 23 now...she's my daughter.

But those recent dreamers that mbkudu is talking about, reached age 21 or 25 with no higher education, or with paperwork far less than a BA/BS or BEd. They want to become professional, career educators. The best advice might be, if you're not already stuck here, go back home. Get a B.Ed and practice teaching and full govt. certification. Don't come to Thailand except to vacation.

What worries me is the huge number of guys who come here without full paperwork, start a family while subsisting on low wages, and then want to advance through the non-existent, malfunctional system of TEFL in Thailand. That's a very tough row to hoe, as the farmers say. Even if you have a real BA or BS that is unrelated to teaching, the PGCE or its equivalent is no easy thing to earn whilst in Thailand. Good luck, you married guys.

I taught for over 10 years in Thailand and it's not much of a career. If you're going back to your country to get a degree, think about doing one that could give you opportunities in other areas from teaching.

The good thing about teaching(there are many actually) is that if you like Thailand it's easy to get by, although after a few years most get sick of it. Most of my original teaching friends are married with kids(like me) and have found alternative, better paying jobs. Teaching in Thailand is good for few years but not a good career. Teaching is great for learning Thai also and finding hot chicks

[howtoescape]

Wow. This must the month for dreamers in this forum; lots of them.

I asked a question to see if it was possible to do all the related TEFL exams, its hardly stretching the realms of fantasy.

Like an above poster said, you can't get on an MA program without a BA except in rare circumstances.

It was this website that lead me to believe it MAY be possiible to do the qualifications in that order

http://www.britishcouncil.org/teacherrecru...ons-masters.htm

I have been accepted on a Msc Finance course starting in March 08 at the London School of Business and Finance, on the basis i have owned and run a business for the last few years.

http://www.lsbf.org.uk/

From what has been posted i take it that its now almost impossible to get any kind of teaching job without a degree of sorts?

[stament]

Wow. This must the month for dreamers in this forum; lots of them.

I asked a question to see if it was possible to do all the related TEFL exams, its hardly stretching the realms of fantasy.

Like an above poster said, you can't get on an MA program without a BA except in rare circumstances.

It was this website that lead me to believe it MAY be possiible to do the qualifications in that order

http://www.britishcouncil.org/teacherrecru...ons-masters.htm

I have been accepted on a Msc Finance course starting in March 08 at the London School of Business and Finance, on the basis i have owned and run a business for the last few years.

http://www.lsbf.org.uk/

From what has been posted i take it that its now almost impossible to get any kind of teaching job without a degree of sorts?

Good for you. What do you intend to teach in Thailand after getting this degree?

[howtoescape]

Basically this is the plan A, with my past experience a Msc Finance, MBA is all i can be accepted on with no formal qualifications, though i do think if my life ever lead me to teach i would prefer to teach this as opposed to English.

My original plan is to get the Msc, work in London for a year or 2 whilst studying get a few connections and then hopefully find work in the finance industry in Singapore or Hong Kong. Thailand would be the dream ticket but i accept this is unlikely.

The major floor to Plan A is how much i despise this country, this government, the drunken violence, the fat women, the weather, and basically i intend to leave and never come back ASAP (apart from to use the NHS) and it is debatable if i could hack another 2-3 years here, i have 6 months to decide.

Hence my Plan B.

I did go to uni aged 25 for 1 year, im now 32 so i do have a bit of an understanding of the work involved to gain an Msc or similar qualification, though it surprises me that having a few years teaching experience and TEFL with diploma doesnt earn the right to study for a MA TEFL.

Maybe time to speak to the schools and get their opinion.

Edited October 12, 2007 by howtoescape

[Ijustwannateach]

A gentle reminder to our members: flames in the teaching forum will be doused.

[PeaceBlondie]

Checking the links to British Council (a nonprofit that teaches here and elsewhere) provided by the OP, I could find no statement that a student without a degree could go directly on to an MA.

I suggest the OP attend the London School of Economics; I believe Mick Jagger did, also. Sometimes, you get what you need.

[Neeranam]

I got onto my MSc course without a degree but with a HND.

[PeaceBlondie]

Thanks, Neeranam. Since many of us don't even know what those non-baccalaureate initials mean, we wouldn't know whether they qualify for entering a master of science program. But as for 'teaching as a career' - is anybody saying that you can enroll in an MA TEFL program or an MEd program without having earned a bachelor's? We know that CELTA, DELTA, TEFL certificate programs do not require a bachelor's degree.

[sanchobkk]

fumm

[howtoescape]

Checking the links to British Council (a nonprofit that teaches here and elsewhere) provided by the OP, I could find no statement that a student without a degree could go directly on to an MA.

It was this quote that shows the Tefl Cert leads to the Tefl Diploma then to the MA.

After professional diplomas, there are higher-level academic qualifications which include a greater or lesser amount of language teaching. At this level of study, courses are often specialised such as an MA in TEFL, or include considerable elements of specialism such as an MA / Dip in Language Learning and Technology, MA in ELT management or applied linguistics.

[PeaceBlondie]

Checking the links to British Council (a nonprofit that teaches here and elsewhere) provided by the OP, I could find no statement that a student without a degree could go directly on to an MA.

It was this quote that shows the Tefl Cert leads to the Tefl Diploma then to the MA.

After professional diplomas, there are higher-level academic qualifications which include a greater or lesser amount of language teaching. At this level of study, courses are often specialised such as an MA in TEFL, or include considerable elements of specialism such as an MA / Dip in Language Learning and Technology, MA in ELT management or applied linguistics.

We disagree about what that means. Is a TEFL certificate a 'professional diploma' in British English, if you don't have a bachelor's degree? Not in North American English, as I understand academic language. I think we'd need a clear statement, such as "you can enroll in our master's program without a uni degree." I'll ask a couple of TEFL experts this week.

[Loaded]

I know teachers working legally in Chiang Mai without degrees.

I also know many teachers working here 'illegally' teaching in language schools and volunteering for NGOs, orphanages etc. I know one guy who's been doing it on a mix of tourist visas and VOAs for around 6 years and never had a problem. Schools don't care nor are they 'raided'. There has never been a raid of any school in Chiang Mai that I have heard about and I've been here a long time.

I've heard other provinces can be stricter though.

I can give you the name of one language school with 3 branches in CM that sends touts to farang meeting places to offer teaching work to anyone who looks foreign. No TEFL, degree or experience required.

[howtoescape]

I sent the following email to York Uni, pretending to have 2 years teaching experience TEFL Cert and TEFL Diploma, i said i had no degree, the response i got clearly shows that it is possible to get on a MA course, without a degree but with teaching experience.

Hi

I am interested in studying your MA Tesol.

I have Tefl Cert and Tefl Diploma qualifications and have been teaching in Bangkok for the last 2 years.

I am now looking to make moves to advance my long term career prospects and believe the MA Tesol would be an extremely valuable qualification to have.

The problem i have is that i dont hold a Bachelors degree.

Would the qualifications i have, letters of recommendation from employers and 2 years teaching experience be enough to gain access to the MA course.

I look forward to your response.

The response from York Uni is as follows-

Many thanks for your email. If you have that much experience, you might prefer the MA in Language Learning and Education (which I direct). Margaret ****** has taken over the MA TESOL, so what I'll do is forward this to her. However, if you are interested in MALLE, get back in contact.

Best wishes

Edited October 15, 2007 by howtoescape

[Loaded]

You can also distance learn that MA TEFL with just 2-weeks per year at York Uni or a licenced language school in Singapore. forget the name at the moment. Just 4 weeks abroad + home study over 2 years for a MA TEFL York Uni - not bad.

[PeaceBlondie]

Hey, I was wrong about it being possible to get an MA without a Bachelor's. But the argument was the BC's statement. You're right; it's possible.

Thanks to Loaded for more info about the number of Thai schools (private lang. schools and govt. schools) that hire without BA and get work permits, and other info.

[howtoescape]

Hey, I was wrong about it being possible to get an MA without a Bachelor's. But the argument was the BC's statement. You're right; it's possible.

Thanks to Loaded for more info about the number of Thai schools (private lang. schools and govt. schools) that hire without BA and get work permits, and other info.

2nd email from York Uni. says that they do really like a degree for MATEFL but you can get on the MALLE(MA Language Learning and Education) with experience and recommendation letters from employers.

For the last three years we have operated on the basis that for the MA TESOL we need a first degree, but MALLE is more relaxed; if you and your referees can demonstrate that you have the relevant study skills that one gets from a first degree - ability to work independently, ability to read critically, ability to write well, ability to analyse - and that you also bring relevant experience, I will be happy to consider you. The basic outline of MALLE should be on the webpages:http://www.york.ac.uk/depts/educ/gsp/MALLE.htmalong with some opinions of previous students Best wishes

[fennielyn]

2nd email from York Uni. says that they do really like a degree for MATEFL but you can get on the MALLE(MA Language Learning and Education) with experience and recommendation letters from employers.

For the last three years we have operated on the basis that for the MA TESOL we need a first degree, but MALLE is more relaxed; if you and your referees can demonstrate that you have the relevant study skills that one gets from a first degree - ability to work independently, ability to read critically, ability to write well, ability to analyse - and that you also bring relevant experience, I will be happy to consider you. The basic outline of MALLE should be on the webpages:<a href="

Thanks for keeping us posted. At least now I know what my options an limitations are.

[PeaceBlondie]

Thanks to howtoescape for further clarifying that York still expects a BA to take one of their master's, and will carefully consider a non-degreed person, so long as his referees (professional and personal references) certify that the applicant has the academic ability to start at the master's level.

[JSixpack]

The best advice might be, if you're not already stuck here, go back home. Get a B.Ed and practice teaching and full govt. certification. Don't come to Thailand except to vacation.

+1. IMHO, it's a mistake to come to Thailand unless you've got (1) investments back home sufficient to support, at minimum, a bare bones existence here indefinitely w/o your needing to work and (2) the ability easily to step back into the society and, as necessary, the world of work there.

Seen too many younger farangs just making a mess of their lives here, finally disillusioned with the lack of any real future and financial security, wasting what should be their good earning and career-building years back home but seemingly unable to return. Best o' luck to them, but I'm glad I didn't know enough about Thailand when I was younger even to be tempted.

[Loaded]

Seen too many younger farangs just making a mess of their lives here, finally disillusioned with the lack of any real future and financial security, wasting what should be their good earning and career-building years back home but seemingly unable to return. Best o' luck to them, but I'm glad I didn't know enough about Thailand when I was younger even to be tempted.

Very good point that's rarely discussed. I know a few teachers here who arrived but never left after their post-graduation world trip. they have nothing back home and are too old (early 30s) to join any career ladder - stacking shelves at TESCOS is one of the few options they have.

I'm a trained bank robber so I would have no problem fitting into society if I decide to return.

[Ijustwannateach]

Good to know, Loaded. I'm professionally homeless, so I'm covered, too!

[PeaceBlondie]

I recently spent time seeing seeing how many TEFL course providers accept non-degreed applicants. Many of those guys stay in Thailand and get jobs at 28K and even 36K without a degree. It can be done. I think the lower level of TEFL teaching in Thailand has a fair number of guys who are making a living here, barely. Two luk krungs and 900 beer Leos later, they're stuck making 39K forever, hoping they'll finally get a school that treats them well and assigns them a few air/con classes with less than 30 students each. The same may apply to somebody from Fremantle with a BA in anthropology from the Univ. of Western Australia. What option does he have, other than maybe doing archaelogical digs along the Nullaboor Plain Highway?

[JSixpack]

The same may apply to somebody from Fremantle with a BA in anthropology from the Univ. of Western Australia. What option does he have, other than maybe doing archaelogical digs along the Nullaboor Plain Highway?

Very, very true. I'm an advocate now of the practical and useful education, however unexciting. I include education in the trades: read The Millionaire Next Door. This is not to be crassly materialistic but rather to live in the real world where, in the end, we have families and medical expenses and old age to consider, besides a few comforts and the feeling of basic security; such concerns inevitably become uppermost.

That said, I think, for a younger person of limited means, digging along Nullaboor would be greatly preferable to falling into the TEFL hole in Thailand. From there you'd have a possibility at least of someday managing or administrating the digs or consulting on digs or selling digging equipment for much better pay. Your job's pretty secure. You have great legal and labor protection. You've got health insurance applicable at hospitals of Western standard. Stay with the same organization and you'll get a pension (which however modest should be compared with the pensions offered in Thailand); besides, you have ready access to regulated property and investment markets and financial expertise: by saving and investing wisely you can gradually win financial independence, which might come sooner rather than later. I needn't mention the access to a great variety of lagers and ales.

And you'll love Thailand for vacations and can take them in some style, rather than scrimping for every baht.

[Loaded]

The problem with Thailand is that it's so addictive.

2 days into a 2 week holiday in the UK and I'm straining at the bit to get back. I remember my last UK break 3 years ago, I nearly cried when I returned and saw all the feminine and gorgeous air-hostesses at Don Muang. I couldn't wait for kapao Gai over rice for 30 pence. Everything is so interesting here and even the frustrations put a smile on your face after a little reflection over a cold beer. I can't leave.

Edited October 18, 2007 by Loaded

[howtoescape]

+1. IMHO, it's a mistake to come to Thailand unless you've got (1) investments back home sufficient to support, at minimum, a bare bones existence here indefinitely w/o your needing to work and (2) the ability easily to step back into the society and, as necessary, the world of work there.

Seen too many younger farangs just making a mess of their lives here, finally disillusioned with the lack of any real future and financial security, wasting what should be their good earning and career-building years back home but seemingly unable to return. Best o' luck to them, but I'm glad I didn't know enough about Thailand when I was younger even to be tempted.

I probably agree with you hence at the start of the post i said it was plan B.

I do have some saving enough to buy a nice condo in BKK, and then some left over for a rainy day.

But you will have a far better standard of life if you have no rent to pay in Bkk, and are earning 50k Baht a month, then if you were earning 50,000 pound a year living in London.