Complaining Expats?

[Nemesis]

The reason the second line starts seriously is because the first line was not serious... sarcasm my good man..

Its been said before if you don't like it go home we all like it just the way it is, warts and all.

Is that why you also wrote this "It's been said before......." in the same post?

The old 'love it or leave it" patriotism rant from the States.

I can read just fine my man.

[Nemesis]

It seems to me that there need to be a few more complaining Thais in society.

Lack of complaining by the Thais is prima facie evidence that the entire society is dysfunctional - too many accepting too much about things that can and should be changed, as in the list you provided.

I never 'complain' about things that can't be changed, e.g. the weather. But everything else is fair game for constructive criticism.

[Ben Dover]

And one of the greatest things about Thailand is that no one gives a F#@k or listens except other complainers or whingers and that most die young from self induced heart attacks trying to create their own perfect little world rather than enjoying all the experiences life throws at them... Keep on whinging Nem I can see the pressure rising..

[Felt 35]

Strange that Thai's wonder why there are complaining expats.

It seems to me that there need to be a few more complaining Thais in society.

Corruption is rampant, the poorest are neglected, the wealthy are getting wealthier, natural beauty is being ravaged by logging and industrial pollution.

Why do I get annoyed????? Because I care for this country, it's people and it's future.

Blind national pride is one of the most insidious characteristics for any country. The right to complain, discuss, debate and criticise the society that surrounds oneself means that a society has a chance to improve.

I left Thailand a couple of years ago for an unamed EU country. The level of national pride I encountered was staggering. Yet, the schools are collapsing there, the social system is in a mess, unemployment is 10%, facilities for kids are appallaing, housing is overpriced because of governement regulation, litter was everywhere. Yet action to solve these problems was absolutley minimal. I wondered why this should happen in a European country?

It became apparant that there was no inward debate and action by the people to want to change these things. They were happy to feel superior to neighbouring countries, and the politicians fostered this feeling to make people content.

I now realise that there is a similar problem in Thailand.

Until the people of a country really learn to look at themselves, their country and culture and be able to criticize themselves honestly, the society stands still and they become subservient to their government, which learns to to keep it's society content with pathetic short term handouts.

People everywhere should be proud that their country is strong enough to withstand criticism of it's people, it's culture, but to view it through rose tinted glasses believing the all is as good as it can be, leads to stagnation and eventually regression.

If you love your country, be willing to criticize it and your country will become stronger. To believe that all criticism and debate is inherently wrong will eventually lead to the degeneration through self satisfaction and lethargy.

Do not believe that criticism from foreigners is wrong. Maybe, as a Thai you should be more willing to criticise your own country

BRAVO

[Felt 35]

Hopefully correct this time!

Strange that Thai's wonder why there are complaining expats.

It seems to me that there need to be a few more complaining Thais in society.

Corruption is rampant, the poorest are neglected, the wealthy are getting wealthier, natural beauty is being ravaged by logging and industrial pollution.

Why do I get annoyed????? Because I care for this country, it's people and it's future.

Blind national pride is one of the most insidious characteristics for any country. The right to complain, discuss, debate and criticise the society that surrounds oneself means that a society has a chance to improve.

I left Thailand a couple of years ago for an unamed EU country. The level of national pride I encountered was staggering. Yet, the schools are collapsing there, the social system is in a mess, unemployment is 10%, facilities for kids are appallaing, housing is overpriced because of governement regulation, litter was everywhere. Yet action to solve these problems was absolutley minimal. I wondered why this should happen in a European country?

It became apparant that there was no inward debate and action by the people to want to change these things. They were happy to feel superior to neighbouring countries, and the politicians fostered this feeling to make people content.

I now realise that there is a similar problem in Thailand.

Until the people of a country really learn to look at themselves, their country and culture and be able to criticize themselves honestly, the society stands still and they become subservient to their government, which learns to to keep it's society content with pathetic short term handouts.

People everywhere should be proud that their country is strong enough to withstand criticism of it's people, it's culture, but to view it through rose tinted glasses believing the all is as good as it can be, leads to stagnation and eventually regression.

If you love your country, be willing to criticize it and your country will become stronger. To believe that all criticism and debate is inherently wrong will eventually lead to the degeneration through self satisfaction and lethargy.

Do not believe that criticism from foreigners is wrong. Maybe, as a Thai you should be more willing to criticise your own country

[/b]BRAVO

[hkthai]

Strange that Thai's wonder why there are complaining expats.

It seems to me that there need to be a few more complaining Thais in society.

Corruption is rampant, the poorest are neglected, the wealthy are getting wealthier, natural beauty is being ravaged by logging and industrial pollution.

Why do I get annoyed????? Because I care for this country, it's people and it's future.

Blind national pride is one of the most insidious characteristics for any country. The right to complain, discuss, debate and criticise the society that surrounds oneself means that a society has a chance to improve.

I left Thailand a couple of years ago for an unamed EU country. The level of national pride I encountered was staggering. Yet, the schools are collapsing there, the social system is in a mess, unemployment is 10%, facilities for kids are appallaing, housing is overpriced because of governement regulation, litter was everywhere. Yet action to solve these problems was absolutley minimal. I wondered why this should happen in a European country?

It became apparant that there was no inward debate and action by the people to want to change these things. They were happy to feel superior to neighbouring countries, and the politicians fostered this feeling to make people content.

I now realise that there is a similar problem in Thailand.

Until the people of a country really learn to look at themselves, their country and culture and be able to criticize themselves honestly, the society stands still and they become subservient to their government, which learns to to keep it's society content with pathetic short term handouts.

People everywhere should be proud that their country is strong enough to withstand criticism of it's people, it's culture, but to view it through rose tinted glasses believing the all is as good as it can be, leads to stagnation and eventually regression.

If you love your country, be willing to criticize it and your country will become stronger. To believe that all criticism and debate is inherently wrong will eventually lead to the degeneration through self satisfaction and lethargy.

Do not believe that criticism from foreigners is wrong. Maybe, as a Thai you should be more willing to criticise your own country

Good post.

On the contrary, I think you will find many Thais discussing about the problems you mentioned. For those in business, the problem with corruption is a major subject of discussion at restaurants around Bangkok comes happy hour. Publicly, you will hear social critics, academics, and even his majesty himself comment on the critical levels of corruption in Thai society today. Yet there are no effective means of controlling much less minimizing corruption. It is a major issue with no easy resolve.

For those in business it is really a catch –22. Do you not pay tea money and waste countless resources fighting the system where the best possible outcome is a breakeven or in the worst case scenario you are out of business. Do you simply pay and chalk it up as part of the cost of business with the best hope of providing for an even playing field among competitors. Pick your poison. For most legitimate business, the answer is simple, pay now and live another day.

From the political perspective, how do you solve corruption when it is deeply engrained in the Civil Service, Arm Forces, Police, Judicial system, Big Business, and the politicians/political party themselves? It is an Oligopoly where maintaining the status quo is equally rewarding for the parties involved. Not maintaining the status quo means death for all (much like the mafia where you have life term..either naturally or by cause unknown).

Well three years ago I thought the answer was Thaksin. He was the richest person in Thailand and has enough economic clout to control the money politics we so often see in Thailand. He had enough money (or so we thought) that what good would another 1 billion baht do for him? He had the moral and majority support of the people. I would not have minded the fact that he was an authoritarian like Goh or Mahatir if it meant improve standards living for all. But what we ended up with was someone who was more totalitarian and probably following in the footsteps of Marcos.

Sometimes I believe that the powers in this country are deliberately holding back education to the general populace in order to maintain their powers and control of the country.

Anyhow, back to the original subject of this thread (complaining expats, why so much). It is not a matter of complaining expat, yea there are plenty of complainers but most are of the general venting variety. It’s fun to read but can get a bit old sometimes and at such time you have to point out some of the similarities among nations.

Rather there are a FEW posters here that are not complaining but are downright offensive. Things said by these sad <deleted> that I would not say face to face or on an anonymous web boards about anyone’s country or people even in jest. Common traits among the post are gross generalization, venomous in nature, and with racist undertone. These are the kinds of post that you just have to hit back sometimes with your own mudslinging.

[Axel]

I have no objections to post or read in ThaiVisa general complaints about living here. Why not, one can find out if others have same feeling, experience a.s.o.

Moreover, it would be difficult to discuss any shortcomings with a Thai friend, unless it is a real clsoe friend. But even then I would be careful. In any country, not only in the LoS, you will upset local people if you mention too many shortcomings as a foreigner, even if you are right.

Actually, it is the same to me. Living in BKK for a long time I am not happy when a tourist or new comer tells me how bad the traffic is, the weather, the heat, the floodings etc. He might be right but I feel than strange for living here.

So let's complain without abuse on the board among 'equals'.

[Nemesis]

most die young from self induced heart attacks trying to create their own perfect little world rather than enjoying all the experiences life throws at them...  Keep on whinging Nem I can see the pressure rising..

Actually, quite the opposite, but I guess you missed the 'venting' post, which explains that venting relieves pressure. Just had my pressure checked 128/80. Perfectly normal.

You, on the other hand, seem to not be able to let go when someone gets the better of you.

Many of my Thai friends complain more than I do about conditions here, especially the ones who spent time in the US. Postal service opening or not delivering mail, poor planning, the money give away to the villagers, Thaksin's football scheme, low salary's for teachers, corruption, the list goes on,

[hkthai]

Actually, it is the same to me. Living in BKK for a long time I am not happy when a tourist or new comer tells me how bad the traffic is, the weather, the heat, the floodings etc. He might be right but I feel than strange for living here.

So let's complain without abuse on the board among 'equals'.

Moreover, it would be difficult to discuss any shortcomings with a Thai friend, unless it is a real clsoe friend. But even then I would be careful. In any country, not only in the LoS, you will upset local people if you mention too many shortcomings as a foreigner, even if you are right.

That's right. I tried discussing about my views with my American friend on the war on Iraq when it first started. No one was right or wrong but after an hour and many beers later, they said jokingly that they should take me out to the parking and beat the shit out of me. We laughed and changed subject to college football instead.

[stefano lucio]

Didn't Expats come to Thailand to live and enjoy what you have in the country,  I live in the US  I hear complaints all the time also and about little things,  One day You will have passed on  Is this the Legacy that you want to remembered for?

stop complaining about expats

I think Tornado having good idea. If he feel you take sticks to him he will get angry and smash his fist on top of table and beat bargirl/wife and say awful thing like "stop complain about expat", we bring money to Thai people we give job and we pay many bar fine Thai people owe us many dollar or rouble or whatever he pay in. (I think pounds but it is guessing so sorry if it is a wrong guess). Also Thai people owe us very much to live here cheap and give nice house to bargirl/wife.

[Nemesis]

"Look around you " said the citizen. "This is the larget market in all the world."

"Oh, surely not," said the traveller.

"Well, perhaps not the largest." said the citizen, "but much the best."

"You are certainly wrong," said the traveller, "I can tell you....

They buried the stranger in the dusk.

Fables, Robert Louis Stevenson (1850-1894)

[stefano lucio]

I've been lurking around this site for a while now, and I have noticed the same thing. I've been questioning how so many people could have decided to come to this country, only to find so much fault, yet they still stick around.

I would have to agree, perhaps this is just a good place to vent. Sometimes, it's not possible to speak to everyone around us about what's on our mind.

Or maybe it can just be attributed to the personality of the individual. Some people are complainers who can find negativity in any situation whether they are here or back at home.

I, for one, think the greatest thread i've read on this site was about what everyone loves about Thailand. I found myself reading it with a huge grin on my face, wondering why all those things are so easily forgotten

Where is this thread about thing you are loving about Thailand please I have look and cannot see for the complaining things?

[stefano lucio]

Some time ago I stopped reading most of the Bangkok message boards for this very reason. I didn't post a question about why so many people complain, because this could be taken to imply a criticism of the complainers and they could quite fairly give the obvious answer, "if you don't like it, why are you reading it?", so I stopped reading it.

I logged on here for the first time a few days ago, because I had a specific question, browsed a few of the other topics and found it much the same, with the obvious exception of this thread. So, as someone else has started it, I thought I'd join in. I have conducted a small (7 people) and unscientific (my friends and acquantances) survey and found almost 100% agreement: looking for information or jobs, use the boards, but reading for pleasure - not really. I've been here about two years and the other people I asked from 2 to 5 years, with the exception of one person who has worked here for 20 years and been retired here for 5 more.

It isn't the fact that people complain, this is human nature as several other posters have pointed out, it is the sheer spite, venom, hatred and aggression in some of the posts that leave me feeling quite unsettled. I finally stopped reading after the excellent April Fool on this forum about the water shortage, public showers, double pricing for farang, etc. Brilliant, I thought, it was beautifully done and even mimicked the government spokesman English. I thought it was an obvious giveaway that everyone quoted in the article had names like (from memory) "Pol. Capt. Kikiat Abnaam", etc. , and couldn't actually fool anyone for a second. But what was the reaction? Loads of furiously angry posts, lambasting the Thai government and the Thai people for greed, stupidity, racism and anything else that came to mind.

Does anyone else ever feel like this, or am I just a ludicrously sensitive flower?

OK, I fully expect the full wrath of the TV community to fall on my head, so I'll read the replies tomorrow morning to avoid being so upset that I can't sleep.

I also enjoy very much the April Fool joking. The writer was I thinking quite a smart man who want to making people think a bit. I am happy I am not one person thinking it is funny.

[stefano lucio]

Your all whinging about whingers

A good examples of not having thing to say but feeling must be seen to speaking. Doesn't matter what he say...all same same.

[stefano lucio]

(Ben Dover @ Fri 2004-08-20, 11:28:41)

I have been here 7 years and never complained about anything..

Never lied either I bet.

Doh!! Nemesis

The reason the second line starts seriously is because the first line was not serious... sarcasm my good man.. I've not posted much here yet but have been browsing for a while and its so obvious that people don't bother to read properly before posting, either that or homer simpson does most of the posting on their behalf.. lay of the duff Nemesis

Many cannot read I am thinking. Maybe surf and beer and bargirl/nightwife to make lazy men and not think first post later.

Many say hating thing about subject they are not understanding as well. Or maybe see themself in the forum and get mad and bang fists and be crazy like loon.

[Axel]

Where is this thread about thing you are loving about Thailand please I have look and cannot see for the complaining things?

stefano lucio, I don't know where the thread is but unearthed an old one I started 9 months ago.... longer than it takes to get a baby.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...ic=3696&st=60

[Dickie]

The Thais in March were complaining about the heat in Chiang Mai. I said "what's the point? Complaining won't make it cooler". No more complaining was heard; too busy laughing (and probably thinking "dark alley for you, farang" )

[IamMaiC]

I can uderstand complaining about the heat, Maybe I need to Live in Thailand for a while to see what you mean?? I was born there but grew up in the states. I complain also who dosen't but I mean about little tiny things that you can change?? What's the sense.

[duke69]

I used to complain about the heat, but when I do so I try to recall what is winter in my city (10 below zero), and I jump into my pool with an iced beer

[Ben Dover]

"Those who can do, those who can't teach or complain"

[Begs]

"Those who can do, those who can't teach or complain"

Plus, you dont need a Work Permit to complain.

[Dickie]

"Those who can do, those who can't teach or complain"

... and those who can't teach tend to work in the UK.

[Begs]

"Those who can do, those who can't teach or complain"

... and those who can't teach tend to work in the UK.

Or alternativley.............................

Those who can't teach and can't get a Job in the UK, become Illegal English teachers in Bangkok.

[mbkudu]

Begs, why do you have such a hair up your ass over illegal English teachers? Did you have a woman snatched by one? Were you robbed and beaten by one wielding

a rubber hose? What's the story?

[Begs]

Begs, why do you have such a hair up your ass over illegal English teachers? Did you have a woman snatched by one? Were you robbed and beaten by one wielding

a rubber hose? What's the story?

Just like to see the Laws of the land upheld.

I am also a farang that has to hang my head in shame as the International gangs of illegal teachers continue to prosper in the Illegal teaching business in Thailand.

The soldiers of these mafia style groups are often seen carrying a brolly, the brolly carriers are 'Made Men', even DVD touts in Bangkok give these guys a wide berth as a mark of respect, those that do not are often reported as missing.

We have the D.E.A., maybe it's time for a new agency...The T.E.A.

[mbkudu]

I think you should be one of those 'Farang Narcs' that the Pataya police are hiring.

I'm still not sure I believe these guys really exist.

[fatter than harry]

I spend a lot of my time sat in my office in a puddle of other peoples urine and faeces juice, sure I complained about it at first, quite vocally, and the guy came round to fix the toilet directly above my office, the guy's been round about 5 times now but it keeps on leaking...I've lost the will to complain anymore, it seems pointless and petty.

The first drop usually hits my knee around lunchtime, then its shoes on and elbows in for the rest of the afternoon - every cloud has a silver lining, I am more attractive to dogs and cats than I have ever been.

In summary, go with the flow friends.

[konangrit]

I spend a lot of my time sat in my office in a puddle of other peoples urine and faeces juice, sure I complained about it at first, quite vocally, and the guy came round to fix the toilet directly above my office, the guy's been round about 5 times now but it keeps on leaking...I've lost the will to complain anymore, it seems pointless and petty.

The first drop usually hits my knee around lunchtime, then its shoes on and elbows in for the rest of the afternoon - every cloud has a silver lining, I am more attractive to dogs and cats than I have ever been.

In summary, go with the flow friends.

Sure there are many expats in Thailand who would be more than willing to do a job exchange with you

[Ben Dover]

Begs, why do you have such a hair up your ass over illegal English teachers? Did you have a woman snatched by one? Were you robbed and beaten by one wielding

a rubber hose? What's the story?

Have you ever seen an English teacher in Thailand with a GF? let alone someone else’s, and the remainder could not lift a rubber hose except the one between their legs occasionally.

Personally I think its the idea of the free milk that drives them to it.

[Begs]

Have you ever seen an English teacher in Thailand with a GF?

Good point, they are often trawling in Bkkchat looking for Thai Chinese girls for some reason. Many make a point of stressing how they prefer Thai Chinese girls........................................Funny how they never used to look at Thai Chinese girls when they had some money in their pockets.

I know, cos i used to go into Bkkchat as ThaiChineseF24, hahahaha..........I used to shoot the Teachers down in flames.