Busted By The Police

[Yohan]

Falong, what about the French guy who stole 100 baht of cheese and is still in prison (AFAIAA). Or the Brit who stole a hotel towel and was deported.

It does happen!! If you are breaking the law then it could only take one cop to take a dislike to you and your time in LoS is up

Still there is no explication, why a foreigner should take the risk and to ride an unregistered bike and to break the law.

To explain to the police, it might be so not only in Thailand but in other 100 countries like that, and to offer 500 baht is no long-term solution.

I wonder what happens, if you have an accident with this bike, or somebody is accusing you, (true or not) that you made an accident with it.

And Simon43 is correct:

Even a small offence might be reason enough to kick you out of Thailand or to keep you for a good time in a prison cell....and for sure, they will find some other reasons, too....visa, driving licence, insurance.....whatever....

So, for what to play with the fire and to take this risk?

[phuketrichard]

Guys;

It can be done and I know that for a fact 100%. illegal bikes made legal.

My friend did it for his harley here in Phuket, cost 100,000 baht. new book and all, I know more than a few honds/yahahas done for less than 35,000

This is thailand and anything can be done and is done daily

[Ajarn]

Falong, what about the French guy who stole 100 baht of cheese and is still in prison (AFAIAA). Or the Brit who stole a hotel towel and was deported.

It does happen!!  If you are breaking the law then it could only take one cop to take a dislike to you and your time in LoS is up 

Those people are thieves.

If the french guy or the towel guy had been driving aroung chiang mai on an unregistered dirtbike they would not been deported or even put in jail.

From what I read, it seems the towel guy was bound to meet his Karma sooner, rather than later. If it happened over a towel, it stands to reason it could happen over anything, including riding an unregistered bike.

I can't think of any outrageous scenario that couldn't happen here. Such is the thrill and danger of life here, perhaps, for some

[falong]

Falong, what about the French guy who stole 100 baht of cheese and is still in prison (AFAIAA). Or the Brit who stole a hotel towel and was deported.

It does happen!!  If you are breaking the law then it could only take one cop to take a dislike to you and your time in LoS is up 

Those people are thieves.

If the french guy or the towel guy had been driving aroung chiang mai on an unregistered dirtbike they would not been deported or even put in jail.

From what I read, it seems the towel guy was bound to meet his Karma sooner, rather than later. If it happened over a towel, it stands to reason it could happen over anything, including riding an unregistered bike.

I can't think of any outrageous scenario that couldn't happen here. Such is the thrill and danger of life here, perhaps, for some

and pigs can fly

[Ajarn]

Guys;

It can be done and I know that for a fact 100%. illegal bikes made legal.

My friend did it for his harley here in Phuket, cost 100,000 baht. new book and all, I know more than a few honds/yahahas done for less than 35,000

This is thailand and anything can be done and is done daily

Harley's are legal, I think...

What makes you think it was illegal?

This is thailand and anything can be done and is done daily

Some things, sometimes, yes. But not everything, and not always. Corruption can't really be counted on.

The scrutiny I referred to earlier is when you move your bike registration outside the area you got your book from....I've yet to here one confirmed case (regarding the type of bike already described) where they were able to move the registration without 'the numbers don't match' being told to them at the new place...

Again, think about the big money being talked about. Nobody denies that at least part of this is a bribe, and why should a bribe be needed, if it was a legal bike? As I said, corruption can't be counted on. Bringing us right back to square one...

[Ajarn]

Falong, what about the French guy who stole 100 baht of cheese and is still in prison (AFAIAA). Or the Brit who stole a hotel towel and was deported.

It does happen!!  If you are breaking the law then it could only take one cop to take a dislike to you and your time in LoS is up 

Those people are thieves.

If the french guy or the towel guy had been driving aroung chiang mai on an unregistered dirtbike they would not been deported or even put in jail.

From what I read, it seems the towel guy was bound to meet his Karma sooner, rather than later. If it happened over a towel, it stands to reason it could happen over anything, including riding an unregistered bike.

I can't think of any outrageous scenario that couldn't happen here. Such is the thrill and danger of life here, perhaps, for some

and pigs can fly

Shit Happens

When pigs can fly

A Chinese airline is doing “swine” after making a special flight from Denmark to Zhengzhou with a cargo of 500 pigs. The 65-tonne shipment of live porkers were taken to their new home in China in high......

[falong]

Harley's are legal, I think...

and Honda's are not legal?

and hondas are not? You cant be serious

There are plenty of legal Honda XR 250's out there.

Most, if not all of imported bikes, are imported into thailand as spare parts.

They are then reassembled and sold. Problems arise when engine and frame numbers are not recorded on the import papers. As long as the import papers are in order there should be no problem in making the bike legal.

[falong]

Guys;

It can be done and I know that for a fact 100%. illegal bikes made legal.

My friend did it for his harley here in Phuket, cost 100,000 baht. new book and all, I know more than a few honds/yahahas done for less than 35,000

This is thailand and anything can be done and is done daily

It seems the cost for making a bike legal varies in relationship to the bikes value.

Does anybody know how this works?

[RooBoy]

There is a fundamental flaw in your reasoning about legal and illegal bikes, they are all illegal! Bikes with a capacity over 250cc are illegal in Thailand, so basically every bike with legal registration is still 'illegal' technically.

Costs to register vary due to engine capacity. This is also a grey area, in fact its all grey, and its all about who you know, who does the paperwork for you. This is why all bikes are registered up country in small offices, where its easier to 'pay' the officials for processing the application.

The tax papers for a bike are all thats needed to register it. And for a 250, I would expect around 30K baht to have it all sorted legally.

As Teach said, it doesnt matter, they will still pull you over for some trumped up crap, BUT, having rego, licence, int licence or thai licence, etc, removes alot of the things they can get you for, so all you need to remember is keep left when approaching a known police area.

For all the holier than thou posters in here, remember one thing, Thailand instills a sense of corruption in everyone eventually, and most people end up going with the flow. Right or wrong its a fact of life here.

[Aussie]

Harley's are legal, I think...

and Honda's are not legal?

and hondas are not? You cant be serious

Only Harleys and BMWs can be imported new legally. Other brands do not pass the strict Thai safety tests, traffic and health have a high priority in Thailand.

I know it's a joke, but that's the way it is in Thailand. You can not buy a new big Honda in Thailand, that's a fact.

[RooBoy]

Isnt there a new Ducati showroom here too?? heard about it but no time to look into it.

[grrr]

RooBoy, thanks for your constructive and informed posts on this matter! One question...you say bikes over 250cc. My XR250 has a 249cc engine, so would this make things any easier than if it was an XR400 or something? As I said in my initial post, the (Thai) dirt bike rider I bought it from estimated around 30k to get it "legalised" but it would have to be done in BKK. But would it REALLY be legal, or would this just be for some forgery/bribes/etc.?

I'm leaning towards selling it to minimize problems, but rest assured the mighty moral perfect citizens who have enjoyed voicing their enjoyable opinions have nothing to do with this (possible) decision!

Still waiting for some opinions from the perfect citizens as well concerning who you believe should abide by your lofty morals. Just us farang, or everyone in Thailand?

[falong]

There is a fundamental flaw in your reasoning about legal and illegal bikes, they are all illegal! Bikes with a capacity over 250cc are illegal in Thailand, so basically every bike with legal registration is still 'illegal' technically.

Costs to register vary due to engine capacity. This is also a grey area, in fact its all grey, and its all about who you know, who does the paperwork for you. This is why all bikes are registered up country in small offices, where its easier to 'pay' the officials for processing the application.

The tax papers for a bike are all thats needed to register it. And for a 250, I would expect around 30K baht to have it all sorted legally.

As Teach said, it doesnt matter, they will still pull you over for some trumped up crap, BUT, having rego, licence, int licence or thai licence, etc, removes alot of the things they can get you for, so all you need to remember is keep left when approaching a known police area.

For all the holier than thou posters in here, remember one thing, Thailand instills a sense of corruption in everyone eventually, and most people end up going with the flow. Right or wrong its a fact of life here.

Are KTM's available in Thailand?

GRRRR How about taking some of that 30K to buy a scooter for around town. Use your Honda for the good offroad riding and in the meantime maybe try to sell it.

[Ajarn]

Harley's are legal, I think...

and Honda's are not legal?

and hondas are not? You cant be serious

There are plenty of legal Honda XR 250's out there.

Most, if not all of imported bikes, are imported into thailand as spare parts.

They are then reassembled and sold. Problems arise when engine and frame numbers are not recorded on the import papers. As long as the import papers are in order there should be no problem in making the bike legal.

So says the theory...

As I understand things, Harley's and BMW's are exceptions, and are allowed to be imported whole, not in parts, so it would seem to me to make little sense to import a Harley as parts from a registration point of view. Admittedly, I'm not 100% sure, that's why I asked the poster why he thought the Harley was illegal. Obviously, you're not able to provide any information of use...

Nobody is parting Harleys in Japan and shipping them here, I believe.

[Ajarn]

I just got off the phone with a friend who sells Harley's...

He said that it costs roughly 90,000 baht to legally register a Harley...It has to go to some Engineer for testing, and this is very expensive, along with the taxes...

He also said that he has some parted-out big bikes from Japan, and that he was able to get papers and a book...But was told not to move the registration from Bkk

He added that all such bikes must go through the same Engineer-done testing, and it costs him about 30,000 baht for the whole process, including reg fees...

I'll continue to try to follow-up on this...

[grrr]

GRRRR How about taking some of that 30K to buy a scooter for around town. Use your Honda for the good offroad riding and in the meantime maybe try to sell it.

Yeah...that is what I'm probably going to do. My girlfreind mentioned this story to a friend and the friend has a friend that is apparently very interested in seeing/possibly buying the bike. Guess Thais are still not afraid to ride these illegal machines around town!

I'll continue to try to follow-up on this...

Thanks for your posts...apparently this is a misunderstood and continually evolving subject...

[Ajarn]

GRRRR How about taking some of that 30K to buy a scooter for around town. Use your Honda for the good offroad riding and in the meantime maybe try to sell it.

Yeah...that is what I'm probably going to do. My girlfreind mentioned this story to a friend and the friend has a friend that is apparently very interested in seeing/possibly buying the bike. Guess Thais are still not afraid to ride these illegal machines around town!

I'll continue to try to follow-up on this...

Thanks for your posts...apparently this is a misunderstood and continually evolving subject...

Yes, it's been a hugely frustrating experience over the years. I've followed sooo many leads, and everything ends as a dead-end or a question mark...This is what has led to my 'arrogant' attitude, perhaps , and the in-your-face challenge to anyone who thinks they know differently than my experiences on this topic...I fully accept I could be wrong, but, based on my many experiences, I won't accept that until I see some better proof, like the scrutiny I talked about. I really don't have my head up my ass, as some might feel

Since you're in Chiang Mai, I'll give you a couple of good contacts for biker friends I've known the whole time I've lived here....

David Unkovich... [email protected] (check his website, too)

Maybe Thailands most experienced bike rider, and author of a couple of books on touring the north that any rider in the north should use as a bible... A wealth of information on anything bike related. An Aussie , but still a great guy, and my best mate here. He'll tell you anything for a beer at the Kaffe'

'German' Joe...053-251-186

Owns 'Goodwill Bikes' on Soi2, Chang Moi rd. Been around town for 20 years, and highly thought of by every farang biker in CM in the know. The center of the German Biking Scene, for sure. Fixes bikes, makes bikes (building a 1400cc Trike at the moment), sells bikes (including the imported Jap ones), and is also a wealth of information. If you're looking to buy a bike of any kind, I'd suggest you check with Joe. You can trust his word.

I also have a few biker pages on my website... http://asiarecipe.com/larry/motor.html

[cutethaigirl]

made it that little bit harder for every other farang in Thailand.

You should be deported back to wherever you came from. Thailand already has enough problems of it's own. It doesn't need idiot outsiders coming and stirring the pot even more.

You don't deserve to be allowed into Thailand.

missed some of the quote i think by Samran.

This has to be the craziest post i have ever read on this forum and coming from a part Thai too.

In defense of any foreigner living in Thailand i do not think that they invented the 'rules' that Thai poloice applied just trying to blend in with the locals? as many Thais appreciate.

Riding my little Honda about towm with helmet and all the papers a HUGE bike ridden by a Thai pulled up along my side.

Looked about 100kph just sitting there. NO number plate so i asked the rider if this was not a problem and why he did not have any registration?

"Too expensive" were his words as he went off with one wheel in the air.

Rider was a Thai Man by the way

[falong]

Since you're in Chiang Mai, I'll give you a couple of good contacts for biker friends I've known the whole time I've lived here....

David Unkovich... [email protected] (check his website, too)

Maybe Thailands most experienced bike rider, and author of a couple of books on touring the north that any rider in the north should use as a bible... A wealth of information on anything bike related. An Aussie , but still a great guy, and my best mate here. He'll tell you anything for a beer at the Kaffe'

'German' Joe...053-251-186

Owns 'Goodwill Bikes' on Soi2, Chang Moi rd. Been around town for 20 years, and highly thought of by every farang biker in CM in the know. The center of the German Biking Scene, for sure. Fixes bikes, makes bikes (building a 1400cc Trike at the moment), sells bikes (including the imported Jap ones), and is also a wealth of information. If you're looking to buy a bike of any kind, I'd suggest you check with Joe. You can trust his word.

I also have a few biker pages on my website... http://asiarecipe.com/larry/motor.html

I've also known David U for many years and agree that he should be able to give you some good advice on what to do about your bike.

[Ajarn]

Since you're in Chiang Mai, I'll give you a couple of good contacts for biker friends I've known the whole time I've lived here....

David Unkovich... [email protected] (check his website, too)

Maybe Thailands most experienced bike rider, and author of a couple of books on touring the north that any rider in the north should use as a bible... A wealth of information on anything bike related. An Aussie , but still a great guy, and my best mate here. He'll tell you anything for a beer at the Kaffe'  

'German' Joe...053-251-186

Owns 'Goodwill Bikes' on Soi2, Chang Moi rd. Been around town for 20 years, and highly thought of by every farang biker in CM in the know. The center of the German Biking Scene, for sure. Fixes bikes, makes bikes (building a 1400cc Trike at the moment), sells bikes (including the imported Jap ones), and is also a wealth of information. If you're looking to buy a bike of any kind, I'd suggest you check with Joe. You can trust his word.

I also have a few biker pages on my website... http://asiarecipe.com/larry/motor.html

I've also known David U for many years and agree that he should be able to give you some good advice on what to do about your bike.

Well, maybe anything except his bike....David's experiences with registering these bikes is the same as mine when we chatted about it a couple of days ago.....He also only knows of people whose registrations didn't pass muster when they moved....

[samran]

made it that little bit harder for every other farang in Thailand.

You should be deported back to wherever you came from. Thailand already has enough problems of it's own. It doesn't need idiot outsiders coming and stirring the pot even more.

You don't deserve to be allowed into Thailand.

missed some of the quote i think by Samran.

This has to be the craziest post i have ever read on this forum and coming from a part Thai too.

In defense of any foreigner living in Thailand i do not think that they invented the 'rules' that Thai poloice applied just trying to blend in with the locals? as many Thais appreciate.

Riding my little Honda about towm with helmet and all the papers a HUGE bike ridden by a Thai pulled up along my side.

Looked about 100kph just sitting there. NO number plate so i asked the rider if this was not a problem and why he did not have any registration?

"Too expensive" were his words as he went off with one wheel in the air.

Rider was a Thai Man by the way

with all due respect cutethaigirl, I think you are missing the point.

When it comes to corruption, you are either for it or against it. It is a scourge that affects Thai society and eating the Thai people and soceity from within. I don't accept the arguments that corruption is simply an extension of the traditions in Thai society, and therefore "acceptable".

Then again, I've seen some of the worst corruption happen before my face, seeing project bids that could have truely helped Thailand go by the wayside because those opposite me have all been paid off and have voted to accept a shonky second rate project design that helps no-one except the people who have paid off the decision makers. I'm not naive enough to beleive it doesn't happen at all levels and often, but I don't swollow that it is the way it has to be.

So that is one end of the scale.

At the other end is when you are pulled over by a police "road block" (haven't we all) and are found to have done something wrong. You can do two things, protest -which sometimes works and let off with a verbal warning. If the policeman puts his hand too far into my window as if waiting for something, then I insist that he writes out a ticket and I pay the fine down at the station, where I get an official receipt. This is something "grr" could have done.

Now corruption in Thailand is a crime, and legally speaking, it is quite a serious crime. Whats wrong insisting that people follow the rule of law? Whats wrong with stating that foriegners who willfully break that law should be deported? Other countries do that for serious offences, why can't Thailand?

[RamdomChances]

I think that most of you are being a bit hard on the guy, so he drove a motorbike without registration and paid a bribe.

Ok by definition of the law he's wrong, but lets get some perspective here, it was a relitivly a minor offence and something that millions of Thai people do everyday, except the bribe.

The police up here don't even bother to stop thai people on old run down, no lights, not registered bikes as they would not have the money to pay for the bribe or fine, and why would local police want to alianate the local comunity that way.

I'll give you some ammo to have a go at me.

We run a 6 wheel lorry(truck), which is only a year and a half old and perfectly legal, we dont even run overloaded (which makes it extremly difficullt ot be profitable as everyone else does).

If I did'nt pay bribes it would be impossible to do buissiness, every police station on our route (exept the local one) gets money every month (only about 20bht but they get this from a lot of people and the more ilegal you are the more you pay).

If I did'nt pay I could chose to go to court, with the lorry impounded until the outcome, or they could just say that they thought you were over weight and would have to go to a weigh bridge, taking mabye half a day.

In short even if I was not prosecuted for anything it would be impossible to do buissines.

So I break the law nearly everyday, should I also be deported, if so what should happen to all the Thais that pay bribe's and the police that take them?

Thailand has not got enough jails to keep them all.

(legal dissclaimer All the above is made up and false, its a fictional story honest)

[samran]

its not the guy per se, its the attitude of "once I land in Thailand I can do things that I wouldn't dream of doing back home". Too many farang have that attitude and it pisses me off, especially when mentioned in such a nonchalant way.

As for your case, I understand that is the way things work even when you do follow the rules. Although it needs to change (somehow), you have very little control over your situation. But this other bloke, as others have said, could have done things differently and been totally legit. Undoubtedly, as a farang in Thailand, it would have been within his financual means to do so as well - but he chose not to.

[samran]

ps - some people I know tried working with the MOT on the issue of harmonising lorry loading laws, so that Thailand has a similar system to Malaysia, where they have apparently successfully tackled the problem of overloaded trucks. Hopefully this will come about one day - especially if Thailand hopes to have its trucks (and exports) to roam more freely in Malaysia

[Ijustwannateach]

^I notice up there that there IS a difference between farang and Thais when it comes to clearing up this paperwork problem. Yet another case where corruption makes official avenues impossible or unavailable because they're not as profitable to gov't workers as the "unofficial" ones. I agree it's unfair, but not much use complaining about it. Better to do things as close to kosher as possible or give up when you realize you're headed down a dead end (not unlike visa problems!)

[Ajarn]

^I notice up there that there IS a difference between farang and Thais when it comes to clearing up this paperwork problem.  Yet another case where corruption makes official avenues impossible or unavailable because they're not as profitable to gov't workers as the "unofficial" ones.  I agree it's unfair, but not much use complaining about it.  Better to do things as close to kosher as possible or give up when you realize you're headed down a dead end (not unlike visa problems!)

Sorry, I don't quite understand what you're talking about. What do you mean exactly by, "I notice up there that there IS a difference between farang and Thais when it comes to clearing up this paperwork problem. Yet another case where corruption makes official avenues impossible or unavailable because they're not as profitable to gov't workers as the "unofficial" ones. " ?

Maybe an example would help me understand

I understand the end advice though, and agree with you...Cover Thy Butt

[Dickie]

its not the guy per se, its the attitude of "once I land in Thailand I can do things that I wouldn't dream of doing back home". Too many farang have that attitude and it pisses me off, especially when mentioned in such a nonchalant way.

I thought the whole point of going abroad is to do things you can't do back home, else why bother leaving home?

[samran]

its not the guy per se, its the attitude of "once I land in Thailand I can do things that I wouldn't dream of doing back home". Too many farang have that attitude and it pisses me off, especially when mentioned in such a nonchalant way.

I thought the whole point of going abroad is to do things you can't do back home, else why bother leaving home?

so you can get laid back home then?

[Ajarn]

its not the guy per se, its the attitude of "once I land in Thailand I can do things that I wouldn't dream of doing back home". Too many farang have that attitude and it pisses me off, especially when mentioned in such a nonchalant way.

I thought the whole point of going abroad is to do things you can't do back home, else why bother leaving home?

so you can get laid back home then?

Hey, most anyone can get most any prostitute, most anywhere in the world... na'?

As for getting it free, I certainly did better at my last home than I ever did here...

[Johpa]

Since you're in Chiang Mai, I'll give you a couple of good contacts for biker friends I've known the whole time I've lived here....

David Unkovich... [email protected] (check his website, too)

Maybe Thailands most experienced bike rider, and author of a couple of books on touring the north that any rider in the north should use as a bible... A wealth of information on anything bike related. An Aussie , but still a great guy, and my best mate here. He'll tell you anything for a beer at the Kaffe'  

'German' Joe...053-251-186

Owns 'Goodwill Bikes' on Soi2, Chang Moi rd. Been around town for 20 years, and highly thought of by every farang biker in CM in the know. The center of the German Biking Scene, for sure. Fixes bikes, makes bikes (building a 1400cc Trike at the moment), sells bikes (including the imported Jap ones), and is also a wealth of information. If you're looking to buy a bike of any kind, I'd suggest you check with Joe. You can trust his word.

I've also known David U for many years and agree that he should be able to give you some good advice on what to do about your bike.

Well, maybe anything except his bike....David's experiences with registering these bikes is the same as mine when we chatted about it a couple of days ago.....He also only knows of people whose registrations didn't pass muster when they moved....

David is arguably the most knowledgeable ex-pat biker in the Kingdom (disclaimer: also a long time close friend) and between Dave and Joe they could give you the best answers to just about any motorcycle related question. Neither of them have had major problems bringing their over 250cc bikes in and out of the Kingdom.

In the past I did once move the registration papers of my old bike from Chiang Rai to Chiang Mai. It was indeed a pain in the derriere when the "numbers" did not match and most people, including the Thais, do resort to handing over some tea money to facilitate the paperwork. I remember the Chiang Rai vehicle office having dozens of people waiting for hours while the workers inside moved ever so slowly. The head kartachakaan sat at a desk that was clear of any paperwork and just sat there waiting for the better dressed Thais who might happen to walk in and discuss how to facilitate their paperwork.

The entire affair took me over one month and two trips, but I was really getting tired of driving up to Chiang Rai to pay an annual registration fee as I was teaching and busy at the time. On the first trip I had to track down the last Thai owner of the bike, who fortunately was Chat, an owner of a well known guesthouse up in Mae Sai, who was well connected with the people whose help I needed. Later it took two days of waiting with the songthaew drivers of Chiang Rai to get the paperwork in order to transfer title to Chiang Mai Province.