Foreign Police Volunteers Based In Soi 9 Police Station

[suiging]

If the answers are not forthcoming fine, it is up to the individual to make his/her own mind up why that might be;

however, if they are willing to take constructive comments form this Boards members ( If not why come on ), the Black shirts should go. They claim they are there to aid with misunderstandings between the Thai authorities and mainly European tourists. The Thais may not care either way about shirt colour. However, for the Europeans they are trying to help, semi-authoritarian groups walking round with some form of power wearing black outfits has historical meaning for just about every European and the majority will find such garb either offensive or intimidating.

[HarryHacker]

I suppose I shoudn't really get involved in this thread but I feel I have to comment and what better place to do than here......

As co-Group Leader of the FTPA (Foreign Tourist Police Assistants)...I have to say that I really don't see how they can improve things. The Highway Police normally run a checkpoint in front of their South Pattaya Office which comes under the jurastiction of Banglamung Police, by the way, because it is located on the Eastern Side of the Sukumvit. There work at Soi 9 Police Station is proving to be invaluable and they are really starting to make a difference there. They are a great help to us when we have to bring a foreigner to Pattaya Police Station for whatever reason and we are more than happy to hand the cases over to them, if required. Most of the Highway Police work is taken place outside the boundaries of Pattaya by patrol cars who will often set up speed traps and pull over people not wearing seat belts. The reason why these checkpoints are located outside of Pattaya is because any fines have to be paid for in Chonburi District and cannot be paid at Pattaya Police Station so as to provide maximum inconvenience to the driver. A good tip for all car and truck drivers....always belt up when you leave Pattaya, especially during the day!!!!

Both groups primary role is to assist the Tourist, that is why we are based mainly at Walking Street and the FPV's are based at Soi 9. It would be a shame if FPV's are taken out of Soi 9 to work with the Highway Police, who, in my experience, can take care of themselves and their English skills are adequate. I hope that the FPV's good work at Soi 9 is not affected by this extra duty for them.

Finally, I don't mean to sound patronising, but the FPV's are a new group with limited experience "in the field". Take some time to learn how Pattaya Police operate and get some cases "under your belts" before you diversify into other things such as the Highway Police. Trust me, there is a lot to learn and even after more than 5 years as an FTPA, I learn new things every day. Basically....'don't run before you can walk" otherwise mistakes will be made which could affect your reputation and could ruin all the good work you guys have done so far.

Howard

Glad to see you coming out HM so why don't you start your own thread on the FTPA as WCR has done so on the FPV, it would be most helpful.

[wcr]

There is very little wrong with the Thai Government employing people to assit with communications between law enforcement agencies and tourists, or workers from overseas who find their systems confusing or the language barrier is creating fear or mis-understanding.

At a roadblock?

Pray tell me what is confusing at the need of having a drivers license when driving, at needing to wear your seatbelt when driving a car or wearing a helmet when on a motorbike, at needing to be sober when operating a vehicle, along with your vehicle being properly insured and road tax paid?

Is this so radically different then in the places these tourists and foreign workers hail from that the presence of volunteers able to converse in the native language of these foreign visitors is needed to inform them of these utterly confusing requirements?

I for one am positively confused here

I have been away for a couple of days so haven't seen these replies.

1) You would be surprised obviously at just how stupid many of the tourists who rent bikes are. I have seen this many times in Soi 9 when they come in to pay thier fines for not having thier licence with them and start shouting at the police its in thier hotel room. If you think I exagerate come down and watch!

2) As for us "enforcing the laws" we do not. We have no powers. As I keep saying, we are there to assist the tourist, foriegn resident and Thai police WHEN REQUESTED by any of those groups to do so. We understand how proceedures work, we understand where you need to go to report crimes, we know where to send people for help, we have lists of Embassys and consulars to direct people to when they are in trouble. Can you see the BIB doing this?

3) I cannot answer any questions yet about the HP as we have not done any duties yet. However I role will be the same as in the police station. We will not get involved unless requested, and will only advise then and explain proceedure. We will not be standing in the road. We will not be involved with Thai drivers.

4) hm1973 makes some assumptions that are wrong. Firstly the primary role of the FPV is NOT to assist the tourists (unlike the TP who's role is), the role of the FPV is to assist any foriegner who comes into the police station, or to assist the Thai police with any foriegner they are having problems with. Secondly the FPV's are not being "taken out of Soi 9". These are additional duties being carried out over a trail period. Our duties in the police station will continue to be carried out as usual. As for being "in the field" our duties are no different to that in Soi 9 so there is no need to worry about that. The only difference is we will be sitting at a desk outside as opposed to being inside. Although I am not a leader in the FPV's group, I have attended a meeting where the HP representive was there and as previously stated this request has come from them and they say there is a need.

5) The uniform is not something we can change. It was designed by someone (I don't know who) and if you volunteer you have to wear it. That's it, no discussion so there is no point bring that up. You won't see FPV walking around with handcuffs, pepperspray etc on thier belts.

[wcr]

I suppose I shoudn't really get involved in this thread but I feel I have to comment and what better place to do than here......

As co-Group Leader of the FTPA (Foreign Tourist Police Assistants)...I have to say that I really don't see how they can improve things. The Highway Police normally run a checkpoint in front of their South Pattaya Office which comes under the jurastiction of Banglamung Police, by the way, because it is located on the Eastern Side of the Sukumvit. There work at Soi 9 Police Station is proving to be invaluable and they are really starting to make a difference there. They are a great help to us when we have to bring a foreigner to Pattaya Police Station for whatever reason and we are more than happy to hand the cases over to them, if required. Most of the Highway Police work is taken place outside the boundaries of Pattaya by patrol cars who will often set up speed traps and pull over people not wearing seat belts. The reason why these checkpoints are located outside of Pattaya is because any fines have to be paid for in Chonburi District and cannot be paid at Pattaya Police Station so as to provide maximum inconvenience to the driver. A good tip for all car and truck drivers....always belt up when you leave Pattaya, especially during the day!!!!

Both groups primary role is to assist the Tourist, that is why we are based mainly at Walking Street and the FPV's are based at Soi 9. It would be a shame if FPV's are taken out of Soi 9 to work with the Highway Police, who, in my experience, can take care of themselves and their English skills are adequate. I hope that the FPV's good work at Soi 9 is not affected by this extra duty for them.

Finally, I don't mean to sound patronising, but the FPV's are a new group with limited experience "in the field". Take some time to learn how Pattaya Police operate and get some cases "under your belts" before you diversify into other things such as the Highway Police. Trust me, there is a lot to learn and even after more than 5 years as an FTPA, I learn new things every day. Basically....'don't run before you can walk" otherwise mistakes will be made which could affect your reputation and could ruin all the good work you guys have done so far.

Howard

Glad to see you coming out HM so why don't you start your own thread on the FTPA as WCR has done so on the FPV, it would be most helpful.

Please do not post any comments about the Tourist Police volunteers on this thread. I requested this on opening this thread. It would be nice to let this sensative subject run without being closed down. Thank you

[dodraugen]

4) hm1973 makes some assumptions that are wrong. Firstly the primary role of the FPV is NOT to assist the tourists (unlike the TP who's role is), the role of the FPV is to assist any foriegner who comes into the police station, or to assist the Thai police with any foriegner they are having problems with. Secondly the FPV's are not being "taken out of Soi 9". These are additional duties being carried out over a trail period. Our duties in the police station will continue to be carried out as usual. As for being "in the field" our duties are no different to that in Soi 9 so there is no need to worry about that. The only difference is we will be sitting at a desk outside as opposed to being inside. Although I am not a leader in the FPV's group, I have attended a meeting where the HP representive was there and as previously stated this request has come from them and they say there is a need.

I would suggest you tell the public what the FPV are...and what they do. I dont think you know what FTPA are. Follow your own suggestion here.

[sriracha john]

Additionally, the issue of work permits for the FPV was never fully answered in the other thread.

And no matter how much you beat your gums on this issue, it never will.

Shame really as it seems it should be such a straight-forward issue, but anyway, now that we have FPV's wcr and FTPA's dodraugen both here, maybe today is our lucky day.

Edited October 31, 2007 by sriracha john

[begsaresponse]

4) hm1973 makes some assumptions that are wrong. Firstly the primary role of the FPV is NOT to assist the tourists (unlike the TP who's role is), the role of the FPV is to assist any foriegner who comes into the police station, or to assist the Thai police with any foriegner they are having problems with. Secondly the FPV's are not being "taken out of Soi 9". These are additional duties being carried out over a trail period. Our duties in the police station will continue to be carried out as usual. As for being "in the field" our duties are no different to that in Soi 9 so there is no need to worry about that. The only difference is we will be sitting at a desk outside as opposed to being inside. Although I am not a leader in the FPV's group, I have attended a meeting where the HP representive was there and as previously stated this request has come from them and they say there is a need.

I would suggest you tell the public what the FPV are...and what they do. I dont think you know what FTPA are. Follow your own suggestion here.

I think wcr has already answered your point in post 63?

begsaresponse

[dodraugen]

Additionally, the issue of work permits for the FPV was never fully answered in the other thread.

And no matter how much you beat your gums on this issue, it never will.

Shame really as it seems it should be such a straight-forward issue, but anyway, now that we have FPV's wcr and FTPA's dodraugen both here, maybe today is our lucky day.

I will be more than happy to answer all your questions srirachajohn....but not here. You see....the information we give out on the net, will always be misused by someone that either are jealous or dont like us from the beginning. I knew when wcr started this thread, that we would be mentioned.....but we have adapted a policy, that if you want info about us....just come down in walking street....and ask us there.

I would also strongly recomend the FPV`s not to mention anything that has to do with the FTPA`s. This is because they dont know what we do.......

Personally, i think you guys do a good job down at soi 9......but just remember....like Howard said...you are a new organisation......we are not. We do different things. I guess...and understand, that a need for a thread like this will always be there. Serious questions about what we do is allowed. We do need more quality people, so i will be happy to answer questions on how to apply, and a little bit of what we require.

[wcr]

4) hm1973 makes some assumptions that are wrong. Firstly the primary role of the FPV is NOT to assist the tourists (unlike the TP who's role is), the role of the FPV is to assist any foriegner who comes into the police station, or to assist the Thai police with any foriegner they are having problems with. Secondly the FPV's are not being "taken out of Soi 9". These are additional duties being carried out over a trail period. Our duties in the police station will continue to be carried out as usual. As for being "in the field" our duties are no different to that in Soi 9 so there is no need to worry about that. The only difference is we will be sitting at a desk outside as opposed to being inside. Although I am not a leader in the FPV's group, I have attended a meeting where the HP representive was there and as previously stated this request has come from them and they say there is a need.

I would suggest you tell the public what the FPV are...and what they do. I dont think you know what FTPA are. Follow your own suggestion here.

I think wcr has already answered your point in post 63?

begsaresponse

Thank you, yes I have. I have stated what the FPV's role is on numerous occassions and on the old thread that was closed down also. Also on the old thread other FPV's also stated the role. I am not going to go through it all again. There is a search facility if you want to use it.

Also it is not my position to say what the FTPA role is. That is up to those people to state what they do, but do it in a different thread not here

[sriracha john]

Additionally, the issue of work permits for the FPV was never fully answered in the other thread.

And no matter how much you beat your gums on this issue, it never will.

Shame really as it seems it should be such a straight-forward issue, but anyway, now that we have FPV's wcr and FTPA's dodraugen both here, maybe today is our lucky day.

I will be more than happy to answer all your questions srirachajohn....but not here. You see....the information we give out on the net, will always be misused by someone that either are jealous or dont like us from the beginning. I knew when wcr started this thread, that we would be mentioned.....but we have adapted a policy, that if you want info about us....just come down in walking street....and ask us there.

I would also strongly recomend the FPV`s not to mention anything that has to do with the FTPA`s. This is because they dont know what we do.......

Personally, i think you guys do a good job down at soi 9......but just remember....like Howard said...you are a new organisation......we are not. We do different things. I guess...and understand, that a need for a thread like this will always be there. Serious questions about what we do is allowed. We do need more quality people, so i will be happy to answer questions on how to apply, and a little bit of what we require.

I appreciate your non-answer and now in deference to wcr's OP, I won't mention the FTPA further in this thread and will instead await FPV's response to our inquiry.

Edited October 31, 2007 by sriracha john

[wcr]

Additionally, the issue of work permits for the FPV was never fully answered in the other thread.

And no matter how much you beat your gums on this issue, it never will.

Shame really as it seems it should be such a straight-forward issue, but anyway, now that we have FPV's wcr and FTPA's dodraugen both here, maybe today is our lucky day.

I will be more than happy to answer all your questions srirachajohn....but not here. You see....the information we give out on the net, will always be misused by someone that either are jealous or dont like us from the beginning. I knew when wcr started this thread, that we would be mentioned.....but we have adapted a policy, that if you want info about us....just come down in walking street....and ask us there.

I would also strongly recomend the FPV`s not to mention anything that has to do with the FTPA`s. This is because they dont know what we do.......

Personally, i think you guys do a good job down at soi 9......but just remember....like Howard said...you are a new organisation......we are not. We do different things. I guess...and understand, that a need for a thread like this will always be there. Serious questions about what we do is allowed. We do need more quality people, so i will be happy to answer questions on how to apply, and a little bit of what we require.

Ummm, interesting comment from the above poster "I would also strongly recomend the FPV`s not to mention anything that has to do with the FTPA`s. This is because they dont know what we do......."

How are you so confident about that? There may well be ex FTPA within the ranks of the FPV's. Have you considered that?

And please don't take this the wrong way, but what right do you guys have on saying what another organisation does? As a FPV I wouldn't presume to tell your organization what new duties you should or shouldn't do. And, do you know what experience I or any of the other 68 FPV's have? I don't want this to be turned into a bitch fight between our two organisations. You continue your work as you have done so already, and we'll continue to do our work and if the leaders of our project consider a new duty worthy of us to trial, who am I or anyone else to it shouldn't be done? And particularly if that request has come from the chief of one police division to the leader of the FPV's.

This thread is about the FPV's assisting the HP on a trial period. Please lets keep the posts on topic and then it won't be closed down with any luck. I think that congratulation are in order for all posters as so far it has remained largely on topic and been carried out as a healthy debate.

[JaiDeeFarang]

Additionally, the issue of work permits for the FPV was never fully answered in the other thread.

And no matter how much you beat your gums on this issue, it never will.

Shame really as it seems it should be such a straight-forward issue, but anyway, now that we have FPV's wcr and FTPA's dodraugen both here, maybe today is our lucky day.

I will be more than happy to answer all your questions srirachajohn....but not here. You see....the information we give out on the net, will always be misused by someone that either are jealous or dont like us from the beginning. I knew when wcr started this thread, that we would be mentioned.....but we have adapted a policy, that if you want info about us....just come down in walking street....and ask us there.

I would also strongly recomend the FPV`s not to mention anything that has to do with the FTPA`s. This is because they dont know what we do.......

Personally, i think you guys do a good job down at soi 9......but just remember....like Howard said...you are a new organisation......we are not. We do different things. I guess...and understand, that a need for a thread like this will always be there. Serious questions about what we do is allowed. We do need more quality people, so i will be happy to answer questions on how to apply, and a little bit of what we require.

Ummm, interesting comment from the above poster "I would also strongly recomend the FPV`s not to mention anything that has to do with the FTPA`s. This is because they dont know what we do......."

How are you so confident about that? There may well be ex FTPA within the ranks of the FPV's. Have you considered that?

And please don't take this the wrong way, but what right do you guys have on saying what another organisation does? As a FPV I wouldn't presume to tell your organization what new duties you should or shouldn't do. And, do you know what experience I or any of the other 68 FPV's have? I don't want this to be turned into a bitch fight between our two organisations. You continue your work as you have done so already, and we'll continue to do our work and if the leaders of our project consider a new duty worthy of us to trial, who am I or anyone else to it shouldn't be done? And particularly if that request has come from the chief of one police division to the leader of the FPV's.

This thread is about the FPV's assisting the HP on a trial period. Please lets keep the posts on topic and then it won't be closed down with any luck. I think that congratulation are in order for all posters as so far it has remained largely on topic and been carried out as a healthy debate.

Colov....?

[dodraugen]

Additionally, the issue of work permits for the FPV was never fully answered in the other thread.

And no matter how much you beat your gums on this issue, it never will.

Shame really as it seems it should be such a straight-forward issue, but anyway, now that we have FPV's wcr and FTPA's dodraugen both here, maybe today is our lucky day.

I will be more than happy to answer all your questions srirachajohn....but not here. You see....the information we give out on the net, will always be misused by someone that either are jealous or dont like us from the beginning. I knew when wcr started this thread, that we would be mentioned.....but we have adapted a policy, that if you want info about us....just come down in walking street....and ask us there.

I would also strongly recomend the FPV`s not to mention anything that has to do with the FTPA`s. This is because they dont know what we do.......

Personally, i think you guys do a good job down at soi 9......but just remember....like Howard said...you are a new organisation......we are not. We do different things. I guess...and understand, that a need for a thread like this will always be there. Serious questions about what we do is allowed. We do need more quality people, so i will be happy to answer questions on how to apply, and a little bit of what we require.

Ummm, interesting comment from the above poster "I would also strongly recomend the FPV`s not to mention anything that has to do with the FTPA`s. This is because they dont know what we do......."

How are you so confident about that? There may well be ex FTPA within the ranks of the FPV's. Have you considered that?

And please don't take this the wrong way, but what right do you guys have on saying what another organisation does? As a FPV I wouldn't presume to tell your organization what new duties you should or shouldn't do. And, do you know what experience I or any of the other 68 FPV's have? I don't want this to be turned into a bitch fight between our two organisations. You continue your work as you have done so already, and we'll continue to do our work and if the leaders of our project consider a new duty worthy of us to trial, who am I or anyone else to it shouldn't be done? And particularly if that request has come from the chief of one police division to the leader of the FPV's.

This thread is about the FPV's assisting the HP on a trial period. Please lets keep the posts on topic and then it won't be closed down with any luck. I think that congratulation are in order for all posters as so far it has remained largely on topic and been carried out as a healthy debate.

Colov....?

I wish you guys luck in assisting the HP.

[percy2]

Ummm, interesting comment from the above poster "I would also strongly recomend the FPV`s not to mention anything that has to do with the FTPA`s. This is because they dont know what we do......."

How are you so confident about that? There may well be ex FTPA within the ranks of the FPV's. Have you considered that?

And please don't take this the wrong way, but what right do you guys have on saying what another organisation does? As a FPV I wouldn't presume to tell your organization what new duties you should or shouldn't do. And, do you know what experience I or any of the other 68 FPV's have? I don't want this to be turned into a bitch fight between our two organisations. You continue your work as you have done so already, and we'll continue to do our work and if the leaders of our project consider a new duty worthy of us to trial, who am I or anyone else to it shouldn't be done? And particularly if that request has come from the chief of one police division to the leader of the FPV's.

This thread is about the FPV's assisting the HP on a trial period. Please lets keep the posts on topic and then it won't be closed down with any luck. I think that congratulation are in order for all posters as so far it has remained largely on topic and been carried out as a healthy debate.

I think wcr is doing a fine PR job for the FPV.

Cheers

Edit to remove quotes

Edited October 31, 2007 by percy2

[Rdrokit]

As a past FPV in Pattaya (I now live in Korat) I will try to answer a couple of questions that seem to be hanging around.

1. As I understand it, a work permit is not need in a volunteer position IF that position can not be performed by a Thai citizen. i.e. you are not taking a paid position away from a Thai citizen. Obviously a Thai could not perform the job as the job description is FOREIGN Police Volunteer.

2. Yes, most HP speak some basic English but much confusion happens after the ticket is issues. Like where to pay, why your keys were taken from you, when will I get them back, where is the impound lot so I can get my bike back and so on. Many tourists only speak limited English so then the REAL confusion comes in. Personally I think that the FPV will help at the road blocks.

Edited November 1, 2007 by Rdrokit

[tropo]

Why do they need foreign help to do their job?

In Scandinavia , all policemen speak English and most even speak German. In USA most policement also speak Spanish.

Thar Phom Samart Rean Phasa Thai- Khun Kor Samart rean Phasa Eunggrit Dai Muen Gun!

(if I can learn Thai - then they can learn English!)

In actual fact Russian tourists are now the majority. How many languages must a Thai learn in Pattaya?

[sriracha john]

As a past FPV in Pattaya (I now live in Korat) I will try to answer a couple of questions that seem to be hanging around.

1. As I understand it, a work permit is not need in a volunteer position IF that position can not be performed by a Thai citizen. i.e. you are not taking a paid position away from a Thai citizen. Obviously a Thai could not perform the job as the job description is FOREIGN Police Volunteer.

Thank you for responding... and it's just as well perhaps that you're no longer "working" as an FPV or FTPA.

From the Department of Employment, Ministry of Labour... the following law is quoted:

The Working of Aliens Act B.E. 2521 Effective from July 22, 1978

Purpose:

1.To reserve the occupations for Thai people;

2.To control the working of aliens in Thailand; and

3. To promote the investment and employment in the country.

“Alien” means a natural person who is not of Thai nationality.

"Work” means to engage in work by exerting energy or using knowledge whether or not in consideration of wages or other benefits.

Essence of the Act:

An alien may engage in work after receiving work permit granted by the Director-General of Department of Employment or by the official entrusted by the Director-General. However, this does not apply to a member of a diplomatic mission, a member of a consular mission, a representative of member countries and officials of the United Nations and its specialized institutions including a personal servant coming to work for the above persons, or a person who performs duty of mission under an agreement concluded between the government of Thailand and foreign government or international organizations, or a person who performs duty for the benefit of education, culture, art, sports or other activities as may be prescribed by the Royal Decree.

In reading all the sections (1 through 47) of the law, there is NO provision that states "a work permit is not needed in a volunteer position IF that position can not be performed by a Thai citizen."

I mentioned earlier that perhaps it's best that you are no longer working as an FPV or FTPA because of this section:

Section 34.

Any alien who is working in violation of Section 7 or in violation of the conditions specified under Section 9 or works without a permit or in violation of the conditions prescribed by the Minister under Section 12 shall be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding three months, or to a fine not exceeding five thousand Baht, or to both.

It is precisely because of these severe repercussions that I have been asking about this issue and I'm glad now that you've finally answered it for me.

They don't have work permits and they don't meet the criteria for excluding the need for one.

Thank you for your response.

Edited November 1, 2007 by sriracha john

[hm1973]

As a past FPV in Pattaya (I now live in Korat) I will try to answer a couple of questions that seem to be hanging around.

1. As I understand it, a work permit is not need in a volunteer position IF that position can not be performed by a Thai citizen. i.e. you are not taking a paid position away from a Thai citizen. Obviously a Thai could not perform the job as the job description is FOREIGN Police Volunteer.

Thank you for responding... and it's just as well perhaps that you're no longer "working" as an FPV or FTPA.

From the Department of Employment, Ministry of Labour... the following law is quoted:

The Working of Aliens Act B.E. 2521 Effective from July 22, 1978

Purpose:

1.To reserve the occupations for Thai people;

2.To control the working of aliens in Thailand; and

3. To promote the investment and employment in the country.

“Alien” means a natural person who is not of Thai nationality.

"Work” means to engage in work by exerting energy or using knowledge whether or not in consideration of wages or other benefits.

Essence of the Act:

An alien may engage in work after receiving work permit granted by the Director-General of Department of Employment or by the official entrusted by the Director-General. However, this does not apply to a member of a diplomatic mission, a member of a consular mission, a representative of member countries and officials of the United Nations and its specialized institutions including a personal servant coming to work for the above persons, or a person who performs duty of mission under an agreement concluded between the government of Thailand and foreign government or international organizations, or a person who performs duty for the benefit of education, culture, art, sports or other activities as may be prescribed by the Royal Decree.

In reading all the sections (1 through 47) of the law, there is NO provision that states "a work permit is not needed in a volunteer position IF that position can not be performed by a Thai citizen."

I mentioned earlier that perhaps it's best that you are no longer working as an FPV or FTPA because of this section:

Section 34.

Any alien who is working in violation of Section 7 or in violation of the conditions specified under Section 9 or works without a permit or in violation of the conditions prescribed by the Minister under Section 12 shall be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding three months, or to a fine not exceeding five thousand Baht, or to both.

It is precisely because of these severe repercussions that I have been asking about this issue and I'm glad now that you've finally answered it for me.

They don't have work permits and they don't meet the criteria for excluding the need for one.

Thank you for your response.

Sriracha John,

You very conveniently left out the end of the paragraph which I will quote from the The Working of Aliens Act B.E. 2521 Effective from July 22, 1978.

An alien may engage in work after receiving work permit granted by the Director-General of Department of Employment or by the official entrusted by the Director-General. However, this does not apply to a member of a diplomatic mission, a member of a consular mission, a representative of member countries and officials of the United Nations and its specialized institutions including a personal servant coming to work for the above persons, or a person who performs duty of mission under an agreement concluded between the government of Thailand and foreign government or international organizations, or a person who performs duty for the benefit of education, culture, art, sports or other activities as may be prescribed by the Royal Decree, or a person permitted by the Government of Thailand to enter and perform any duty and mission.

The FTPA's are a division of the Tourist Police who are funded and supported by the Tourism Authority of Thailand who just happen to be a Royal Thai Government Agency. I suggest if you have a problem with the legal aspect of the FTPA's then you should write a letter to Dr Suwit who is the Minister for Sports and Tourism, he fully supports our program and in fact presented me with an achievement award earlier this year for my efforts in the FTPA.

The FPV's are a different matter, but I am guessing that covers us a bit.

Over to you John.

[percy2]

The Working of Aliens Act B.E. 2521 Effective from July 22, 1978

Purpose:

1.To reserve the occupations for Thai people;

2.To control the working of aliens in Thailand; and

3. To promote the investment and employment in the country.

“Alien” means a natural person who is not of Thai nationality.

"Work” means to engage in work by exerting energy or using knowledge whether or not in consideration of wages or other benefits.

Essence of the Act:

An alien may engage in work after receiving work permit granted by the Director-General of Department of Employment or by the official entrusted by the Director-General. However, this does not apply to a member of a diplomatic mission, a member of a consular mission, a representative of member countries and officials of the United Nations and its specialized institutions including a personal servant coming to work for the above persons, or a person who performs duty of mission under an agreement concluded between the government of Thailand and foreign government or international organizations, or a person who performs duty for the benefit of education, culture, art, sports or other activities as may be prescribed by the Royal Decree.

Section 34.

Any alien who is working in violation of Section 7 or in violation of the conditions specified under Section 9 or works without a permit or in violation of the conditions prescribed by the Minister under Section 12 shall be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding three months, or to a fine not exceeding five thousand Baht, or to both.

Did you ever consider that just being alive and in country we are exerting energy?

Do you drive here or read a forum here. Both would require the use of knowledge.

An alien may engage in work after receiving work permit granted by the Director-General of Department of Employment or by the official entrusted by the Director-General.

However, this does not apply to or a person who performs duty for the benefit of education, culture, art, sports or other activities as may be prescribed by the Royal Decree.

Personally I can admit I haven't read all Royal decree's. Maybe there is one that covers people working for the Police or Military. You'd suspect there'd have to be. I mean it would do arresting foreign participants in Cobra Gold or policemen coming here to escort people being extradited.

The above suggests that teachers and photographers don't need workpermits?

Cheers

[percy2]

An alien may engage in work after receiving work permit granted by the Director-General of Department of Employment or by the official entrusted by the Director-General.

However, this does not apply to or a person who performs duty for the benefit of education, culture, art, sports or other activities as may be prescribed by the Royal Decree.

Personally I can admit I haven't read all Royal decree's. Maybe there is one that covers people working for the Police or Military. You'd suspect there'd have to be. I mean it would do arresting foreign participants in Cobra Gold or policemen coming here to escort people being extradited.

Cheers

OOOPS

An alien may engage in work after receiving work permit granted by the Director-General of Department of Employment or by the official entrusted by the Director-General. However, this does not apply to a person who performs duty of mission under an agreement concluded between the government of Thailand and foreign government .

I guess that might take care of that.

Cheers

Edit add bold

Edited November 1, 2007 by percy2

[sriracha john]

As a past FPV in Pattaya (I now live in Korat) I will try to answer a couple of questions that seem to be hanging around.

1. As I understand it, a work permit is not need in a volunteer position IF that position can not be performed by a Thai citizen. i.e. you are not taking a paid position away from a Thai citizen. Obviously a Thai could not perform the job as the job description is FOREIGN Police Volunteer.

Thank you for responding... and it's just as well perhaps that you're no longer "working" as an FPV or FTPA.

From the Department of Employment, Ministry of Labour... the following law is quoted:

The Working of Aliens Act B.E. 2521 Effective from July 22, 1978

Purpose:

1.To reserve the occupations for Thai people;

2.To control the working of aliens in Thailand; and

3. To promote the investment and employment in the country.

“Alien” means a natural person who is not of Thai nationality.

"Work” means to engage in work by exerting energy or using knowledge whether or not in consideration of wages or other benefits.

Essence of the Act:

An alien may engage in work after receiving work permit granted by the Director-General of Department of Employment or by the official entrusted by the Director-General. However, this does not apply to a member of a diplomatic mission, a member of a consular mission, a representative of member countries and officials of the United Nations and its specialized institutions including a personal servant coming to work for the above persons, or a person who performs duty of mission under an agreement concluded between the government of Thailand and foreign government or international organizations, or a person who performs duty for the benefit of education, culture, art, sports or other activities as may be prescribed by the Royal Decree.

In reading all the sections (1 through 47) of the law, there is NO provision that states "a work permit is not needed in a volunteer position IF that position can not be performed by a Thai citizen."

I mentioned earlier that perhaps it's best that you are no longer working as an FPV or FTPA because of this section:

Section 34.

Any alien who is working in violation of Section 7 or in violation of the conditions specified under Section 9 or works without a permit or in violation of the conditions prescribed by the Minister under Section 12 shall be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding three months, or to a fine not exceeding five thousand Baht, or to both.

It is precisely because of these severe repercussions that I have been asking about this issue and I'm glad now that you've finally answered it for me.

They don't have work permits and they don't meet the criteria for excluding the need for one.

Thank you for your response.

Sriracha John,

You very conveniently left out the end of the paragraph which I will quote from the The Working of Aliens Act B.E. 2521 Effective from July 22, 1978.

An alien may engage in work after receiving work permit granted by the Director-General of Department of Employment or by the official entrusted by the Director-General. However, this does not apply to a member of a diplomatic mission, a member of a consular mission, a representative of member countries and officials of the United Nations and its specialized institutions including a personal servant coming to work for the above persons, or a person who performs duty of mission under an agreement concluded between the government of Thailand and foreign government or international organizations, or a person who performs duty for the benefit of education, culture, art, sports or other activities as may be prescribed by the Royal Decree, or a person permitted by the Government of Thailand to enter and perform any duty and mission.

The FTPA's are a division of the Tourist Police who are funded and supported by the Tourism Authority of Thailand who just happen to be a Royal Thai Government Agency. I suggest if you have a problem with the legal aspect of the FTPA's then you should write a letter to Dr Suwit who is the Minister for Sports and Tourism, he fully supports our program and in fact presented me with an achievement award earlier this year for my efforts in the FTPA.

The FPV's are a different matter, but I am guessing that covers us a bit.

Over to you John.

You are correct about my oversight by inadvertently omitting the ending sentence for which I apologize with all my cutting and pasting and putting into quotation boxes, it got by me.... BUT the final sentence reads as "permitted by the Government of Thailand to ENTER and perform any duty and mission." Clearly, this would only apply to people overseas that are specially invited by the government to come and ENTER Thailand for that specific purpose and not for people that are already residing here.

I don't have a problem with the legal aspect of FTPA's as I am not one. I've had two foreigners ask me about this issue as they were considering joining and I told them at the time that I didn't know, but that I would ask here. Little did I know it would be such a difficult task to get an answer for, but at least now I know and can inform them.

With all due respect to Khun Dr. Suwit , the issue of work permits is not within his purview. Labour Minister Apai or Labour Permanent Secretary Juthathawat would be those that are responsible should someone desire to contact them.

[hm1973]

As a past FPV in Pattaya (I now live in Korat) I will try to answer a couple of questions that seem to be hanging around.

1. As I understand it, a work permit is not need in a volunteer position IF that position can not be performed by a Thai citizen. i.e. you are not taking a paid position away from a Thai citizen. Obviously a Thai could not perform the job as the job description is FOREIGN Police Volunteer.

Thank you for responding... and it's just as well perhaps that you're no longer "working" as an FPV or FTPA.

From the Department of Employment, Ministry of Labour... the following law is quoted:

The Working of Aliens Act B.E. 2521 Effective from July 22, 1978

Purpose:

1.To reserve the occupations for Thai people;

2.To control the working of aliens in Thailand; and

3. To promote the investment and employment in the country.

“Alien” means a natural person who is not of Thai nationality.

"Work” means to engage in work by exerting energy or using knowledge whether or not in consideration of wages or other benefits.

Essence of the Act:

An alien may engage in work after receiving work permit granted by the Director-General of Department of Employment or by the official entrusted by the Director-General. However, this does not apply to a member of a diplomatic mission, a member of a consular mission, a representative of member countries and officials of the United Nations and its specialized institutions including a personal servant coming to work for the above persons, or a person who performs duty of mission under an agreement concluded between the government of Thailand and foreign government or international organizations, or a person who performs duty for the benefit of education, culture, art, sports or other activities as may be prescribed by the Royal Decree.

In reading all the sections (1 through 47) of the law, there is NO provision that states "a work permit is not needed in a volunteer position IF that position can not be performed by a Thai citizen."

I mentioned earlier that perhaps it's best that you are no longer working as an FPV or FTPA because of this section:

Section 34.

Any alien who is working in violation of Section 7 or in violation of the conditions specified under Section 9 or works without a permit or in violation of the conditions prescribed by the Minister under Section 12 shall be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding three months, or to a fine not exceeding five thousand Baht, or to both.

It is precisely because of these severe repercussions that I have been asking about this issue and I'm glad now that you've finally answered it for me.

They don't have work permits and they don't meet the criteria for excluding the need for one.

Thank you for your response.

Sriracha John,

You very conveniently left out the end of the paragraph which I will quote from the The Working of Aliens Act B.E. 2521 Effective from July 22, 1978.

An alien may engage in work after receiving work permit granted by the Director-General of Department of Employment or by the official entrusted by the Director-General. However, this does not apply to a member of a diplomatic mission, a member of a consular mission, a representative of member countries and officials of the United Nations and its specialized institutions including a personal servant coming to work for the above persons, or a person who performs duty of mission under an agreement concluded between the government of Thailand and foreign government or international organizations, or a person who performs duty for the benefit of education, culture, art, sports or other activities as may be prescribed by the Royal Decree, or a person permitted by the Government of Thailand to enter and perform any duty and mission.

The FTPA's are a division of the Tourist Police who are funded and supported by the Tourism Authority of Thailand who just happen to be a Royal Thai Government Agency. I suggest if you have a problem with the legal aspect of the FTPA's then you should write a letter to Dr Suwit who is the Minister for Sports and Tourism, he fully supports our program and in fact presented me with an achievement award earlier this year for my efforts in the FTPA.

The FPV's are a different matter, but I am guessing that covers us a bit.

Over to you John.

You are correct about my oversight by inadvertently omitting the ending sentence for which I apologize with all my cutting and pasting and putting into quotation boxes, it got by me.... BUT the final sentence reads as "permitted by the Government of Thailand to ENTER and perform any duty and mission." Clearly, this would only apply to people overseas that are specially invited by the government to come and ENTER Thailand for that specific purpose and not for people that are already residing here.

I don't have a problem with the legal aspect of FTPA's as I am not one. I've had two foreigners ask me about this issue as they were considering joining and I told them at the time that I didn't know, but that I would ask here. Little did I know it would be such a difficult task to get an answer for, but at least now I know and can inform them.

With all due respect to Khun Dr. Suwit , the issue of work permits is not within his purview. Labour Minister Apai or Labour Permanent Secretary Juthathawat would be those that are responsible should someone desire to contact them.

OK John...fair point,

The word "enter" could suggest that but I think the highlighted clause could be interprated in a number of ways. The bottom line is the FTPA's have been permitted to undertake a duty in Thailand by a Royal Thai Government Agency, which is confirmed by the issuance of an officially signed ID Badge issued to all FTPA's.

I am really not a legal expert and we must remember that this is a translation of the Thai version of the Law.

My brain hurts!!!!!

[suiging]

Now I understand. In the UK we had something similar for Road Safety when I was a kid.........The Tufty Club.

[Mobi]

Many moons ago - back in the mid seventies, two close English friends of mine were working in Thailand as "traffic consultants" in Bangkok. They were working with the Police traffic department to come up with solutions to Bangkok's traffic problems.

They both had to apply for, and were issued with work permits. Needless to say a senior Police traffic officer issued an official letter supporting their application.

They both inadvertently let their work permits expire, and were taken to court and actually ended up spending time in jail.

A salutary lesson for those who think they are safe doing something here , paid or unpaid, without a work permit.

My advice for all you budding cops out there is to stay out of uniform and enjoy the delights of LOS. Because believe you me, the right hand often does not know what the left hand is doing in this country, and rivalries and jealousies between businesses, government departments and government organisations/agencies know no bounds.

You have been warned.

[NanLaew]

They both inadvertently let their work permits expire, and were taken to court and actually ended up spending time in jail.

Therefore the point here is don't let your work permit expire... sort of commom sense, like don't overstay your visa no? If you don't have or need a work permit, it is irrelevant.

You have been warned.

Where's the 'shaking in my boots' emoticon when you really need one?

[NanLaew]

Now I understand. In the UK we had something similar for Road Safety when I was a kid.........The Tufty Club.

And then there were the prats that didn't look right, left and right again before crossing and got smacked. Hurt did it?

[NanLaew]

In actual fact Russian tourists are now the majority. How many languages must a Thai learn in Pattaya?

That's just because they hang out the same places y'all do. I reckon the Koreans and/or Taiwanese (they all look the same) may have the Russians beat on numbers.

Edited November 2, 2007 by NanLaew

[Mobi]

They both inadvertently let their work permits expire, and were taken to court and actually ended up spending time in jail.

Therefore the point here is don't let your work permit expire... sort of commom sense, like don't overstay your visa no? If you don't have or need a work permit, it is irrelevant.

Correction: If you're not working as a FPV (without a work permit), you have nothing to worry about.

In the case of my friends, they might have been naive, but they genuinely didn't know their permits had expired, as they became pawns in a little power struggle and were assured that everything was fine, and all permissions were in place for them to continue to do their work. It transpired that they were led a nasty dance to jail. It's not too difficult to imagine a similar scenario with our current band of valiant volunteers.

It is certainly relevant, as would be any true account that emphasises to the fickle nature of the Thai authorities, and the sort of mess you can yourself into if you are not careful.

BTW,Do you actually enjoy picking on my posts? You've been doing it for a long time. There seems to be something sadly pathetic in someone who derives pleasure at trying to belittle other people's well intentioned comments, in an anonymous forum.

[monty]

And I do seem to see a pretty strong feeling of inter-departmental competition, even resentment, between the two departments (FPV and FTPA) judging by the posts made by the representatives of each department....Which IMHO is a recipe for disaster...

I hope the respective parties get my hint, we do want to keep the discussion sensible and alive!

[dodraugen]

And I do seem to see a pretty strong feeling of inter-departmental competition, even resentment, between the two departments (FPV and FTPA) judging by the posts made by the representatives of each department....Which IMHO is a recipe for disaster...

I hope the respective parties get my hint, we do want to keep the discussion sensible and alive!

There is no competition.....we do different things..