Traveling As A Young Woman In Thailand

[Jorinda]

Alright, I posted in another forum (Local forum for Bangkok) about doing a study abroad in Thailand, but I'm hitting a road block from my parents. My father seems to think that horrible things will happen if I live in Thailand for 5 months as a single 20 year old woman. He's scared by all the bad press about Bangkok, and the sex trade reputation it has. What can I do/show him that will show him that I'll be safe provided I use common sense?

[britmaveric]

Send him to Thailand!!!

Seriously he'll worry no matter where you go. Just him being a concerned parent. Thailand is safer IMHO than most western countries. If you are sensible and have street smarts I think you will be fine.

[alaina]

"You've got to be crazy," is a common goodbye for women that travel to Thailand (at least in my experience.) I was going to leave no matter what but somehow I thought that it would feel better to win the argument with my father. "Didn't you spend all of 1969 in Japan?" won it for me. (Yes, it helps that my father did go to Japan.)

At this point you're old enough to do things without approval and your father probably gets that, but it feels better to leave with things resolved. You can try and think about things he's done at your age and leverage his trust in you against that. Failing any other logic you can use, you can tell him that you are going and would rather that he's okay about it. If anything were ever to happen to you here, it's better that you believe that you can call and ask for help without fearing an, "I told you so."

There are different rules for women here you should be aware of them before you come even though Thais don't really apply the same rules to Thai women and foreign women. There are a few other cultural things that you should be aware of but, "Be polite," is a good rule of thumb here and everywhere. Generally, I'd say things in Bangkok are safer than most cities in the West.

[seonai]

Jorinda I really think you got all the answers in your previous post in 'Bangkok' - if your father doesn't get the reasurrance he wants from you here then what's next... at 20 years old you sound very naive to be honest and maybe should consider a more suitable environment for your studies

[girlx]

i don't think she sounds naive, i think her father sounds overly paranoid. not much you can do about that- it's your life. i can tell you that i have travelled/lived in thailand for 8 years as a solo female and it is probably the safest country i have been to (except maybe japan )... do keep in mind that thai men get a lot of their ideas about western women from porn and the media, which means they think we are all up for it. can be annoying, but not so dangerous overall. taxi drivers bother me more than anyone else. don't be too friendly to them. dress conservatively. don't get too drunk by yourself. otherwise just use common sense and you will be fine.

[seonai]

I have always had the very best conversations with taxi drivers actually - great place to practise your Thai! And when they find out you speak Thai and are married to a Thai they are sooooper friendly - I've had loads of discounts with that

Thai men get a lot of their ideas about western women from the way western women dress and the way a lot of them throw themselves at Thai men

[qualtrough]

Your biggest danger here will be transport-related. Stay off of motorbikes and away from tuks tuks to the extent possible, sit in the middle of tour buses, never in the very front or very back. Take the train for long distances. Sit in the front of taxis as you can always find a working seat belt there, and wear it. Do all that and you will go a long way towards minimizing the greatest risk you will face here.

[Jorinda]

Thanks for all the advice, I would just go ahead with the application to study abroad without my dad saying yes if he wasn't paying my tuition. Also, it's nice to have your family agree with you on something like living in a foreign country. I was mainly asking here because I'm sure women get more crap from their friends/family about traveling to SE Asia than men get, so I was hoping for some insight on how to deal with it. I don't know how old everyone is, but if most people on here are married or older then I guess you wouldn't be under so much family pressure.

"Didn't you spend all of 1969 in Japan?" won it for me.

The problem with using experince as a leverage is that at 20 my dad was still living at home going to a local college...so I'm going to try and get someone from my college to talk to him about the safety of the program. My mom on the other hand is perfectly ok with me traveling, as she spent a chunk of the 1980's in Guatemala.

I've heard the advice about being polite, dressing modestly being respectful, etc. I don't dress like a slut in the first place so I don't think I'll have a huge problem transitioning.

[seonai]

Good idea Jorinda, get someone from college to talk to your dad, someone who knows Thailand, good luck

[bina]

i have (still !) a paranoid father who is now paranoid about his 20 yr old granddaughter!!... so make agreements: i will call every week at xxx time as a check in; i will keep xx amount of dollars aside for emmergencies; etc

in this day of cell phones internets etc, it couldnt be easier even if u are in timbuktu there is always somewhere somehow someone who can find a phone/internet/cell phone....

show him a list of all 'fall back' places: if u are christian, then the local church missionary (for me it was the habad house in chiang mai of all things), or something similar or equivalent...

show him that all your important papers are 'on line' in case of problems and u know where your embassy is;

find decent travel books/maps etc to show him where u will be/what u are doing

if u have been level headed in the past, high school days, then u should continue to be so...

u are also not going alone, u are studying with , presumably, other foreigners also; get ahold of other people that may be with u and phone/address of parents so they can contact eachother in case of problems (... i havent heard from sally for three weeks can u please ask jenny to tell her to call...) if they are from general area or country...

set up some kind of code so that if u have to call collect or there is a real emergency, u just say: doris is dead or some other phrase that means i am in dire straights please wire money/ticket/embassy whatever... its totally useless to u but it makes parents feel better!! (i was to ask for my long dead dog and they would call me back at a pre arranged location; if i asked for my dead fish, then they were to stay on line collect since it meant that i was out of money or whatever...

my dad made me do this for my 20 yr old, they never grow out of it, u just have to train them a bit... better to have him worry then come to the rescue then have him not worry so if u need rescuing u arent screwed...

i am 45 and was marrrying my thai husband in the hai boonies and went thru the same thing with my very well travelled folks: did all of the above and they settled down in to seeing it as just an other trip and not some wierd adventure in to the third world

[girlx]

Sit in the front of taxis as you can always find a working seat belt there

i disagree with this advice if you are a solo female. you should sit in the back seat. i have had enough taxi drivers bother me from the back seat (including one who stopped in a dark alley nowhere near where i asked him to take me and then tried to climb over the back seat and feel me up, until i had to get out and run) that i certainly do not recommend sitting up next to them. and yes seonai, some are very friendly and nice, but many take your reciprocated friendliness as a sign that you want them, and will hassle you. it is better for your safety to be cool and polite. fiddle with your phone, and make a point of taking down the number on the door. if anything feels wrong, just get out. also be careful taking out a wallet late at night if there aren't many people around- twice i have had problems with bangkok taxi drivers who tried to snatch and run. hate the bastards overall.

[seonai]

GirlX I appreciate your bad experiences have had an influence and it's good to tell this to newbies, my experience is completely different cos when you speak fluent Thai and have a thai partner the cab drivers dare not try anything on with you

It is good however that you warn newcomers to Thailand about the dangers - which are very real - taxi drivers can be very dangerous

[sbk]

Ditto on Seonai's experience. Even if you don't have a Thai spouse, lie and say you do. And be sure to add he is from Nakhon Si Thammarat (or Surat Thani). The taxi drivers won't touch you with a 10 foot pole

All good advice on how to behave once you get here--bina gives excellent advice on how to reassure your dad as well.

Let me tell you the one thing that helped my parents when I left the US when I was 21. I asked them, do you trust my judgment? And when they answered yes, I asked them to continue to do so. I also contacted them regularly. And remember, this was before the days of email, IM, SMS and mobile phones. They worried but allowed me to be the adult that I am. Ask your parents for the same consideration.

[girlx]

Ditto on Seonai's experience. Even if you don't have a Thai spouse, lie and say you do. And be sure to add he is from Nakhon Si Thammarat (or Surat Thani). The taxi drivers won't touch you with a 10 foot pole

i am sorry, i don't mean to be argumentative, but you guys are wrong about this. i do speak thai to taxi drivers and tell them i have a thai boyfriend. makes no difference at all if he is not with me. sometimes i feel like the fact that i have admitted i like thai men is actually a point in their favor. the problems i have had were in bangkok, and no of course not every driver is like this but in my experience a big proportion of them are not to be trusted. it is really the only area in which i feel safety is an issue in thailand. i avoid taxis now as much as possible, because not only are they pervy molesters, but they drive like idiots too.

[sbk]

Sorry I don't mean to be argumentative you but you guys are wrong about this

Your experiences don't invalidate mine, sorry to inform you of that.

I speak fluent southern thai, and tell them my husband is Thai and have never had a taxi driver behave inappropriately with me --and I have taken taxis alone late at night in Bangkok many times before. Just because YOU have had problems doesn't make ME wrong. Just means that I have not had problems. And btw, telling them you have a Thai boyfriend is not the same thing as telling them your husband is Thai.

Regardless, this is not the issue in this thread, Seems to me Jorinda's dad needs to learn to trust her judgment.

[girlx]

argh, whatever, you always try to turn things into a "i've been in thailand longer than you, speak better thai, have a husband, yadda yadda" sort of thing. i don't give a rat's ass. i just don't want to minimize the threat to someone new to this place is all. i and several other people have had problems with bangkok taxi drivers, and thus girls alone should be careful with them, and that is that.

[seonai]

SBK has never said anything like 'I've been in Thailand longer than you'. We are trying to help the OP discuss her situation. You are now on an higher warning level because you consistantly slag off all Thai men, and continue to go out with them, while you rant about ALL men that you've ever been near fancying you and coming on to you. It is against forum rules to make racist or slanderous remarks and you have again gone over the limit

[deckx]

argh, whatever, you always try to turn things into a "i've been in thailand longer than you, speak better thai, have a husband, yadda yadda" sort of thing. i don't give a rat's ass. i just don't want to minimize the threat to someone new to this place is all. i and several other people have had problems with bangkok taxi drivers, and thus girls alone should be careful with them, and that is that.

hi, my sister is coming over in a couple weeks for 3 weeks doing the "backpacker thing" chang mai, khoi san muai etc before visiting me in pattaya. She is just after 6 months in Oz and NZ which is obviously a different envoirment, not sure she realizes how different things are here !

I think she is traveling alone ! thought the taxis would be safe enough ?? (don't know how i'm going to occupy her in Pattaya as i am married and live a bit outside town)

Any tips greatly appreciated

thanks

deckx

[seonai]

Hi there Deckx, don't worry too much, taxis are normally quiet safe if you are not a drunk female alone; don't dress provocatively; don't act OTT friendly if you CAN'T speak Thai and check that there is actually a meter in the cab. Also call a company, as in don't flag them down. Simple rules and most times things are just fine - tell your sister to be polite and straight faced assertive and I'm sure she'll be fine. The biggest come on, apart from clothing, for a lot of Thai drivers is a 'cutetsy sort of abandoned female' look or attitude

[seonai]

Another quick pointer, with Thai drivers and some other thai chaps a woman can't do all the batting eyelids, smirky smiling or sort of 'I'm innocent' body language without it sometimes being seen as provocative - most Thai men would never dare approach a Western woman who was behaving as tho she was in control of her own facilties and strong minded

[qualtrough]

I just one to point out one thing that may not occur to first time travelers, and this applies to travel anywhere. Many people naively assume that their fellow travelers, often from the same country or background, are trustworthy and that they can let their guard down with them and concentrate on worrying about the thieving locals. Unfortunately there is a small groups of travelers/backpackers that prey on other tourists. They rely on people being unwary because, after all, why would someone like me and in the same boat steal from me? I am not saying you have to be paranoid, but do be aware of this. I am not talking about physical danger so much as the danger of being robbed of money, passport, etc.

[sbk]

argh, whatever, you always try to turn things into a "i've been in thailand longer than you, speak better thai, have a husband, yadda yadda" sort of thing. i don't give a rat's ass. i just don't want to minimize the threat to someone new to this place is all. i and several other people have had problems with bangkok taxi drivers, and thus girls alone should be careful with them, and that is that.

No, what I saw was an aggressive and rude post from you. I responded to your belief that your experiences are valid and mine "wrong" in a polite manner pointing out that my experiences just happened to be different than yours. Which you then again responded with a rude and aggressive post. Not sure what your problem is, but it seems to me that anyone who disagrees with you is wrong and your experiences are the only ones that count. Whatever.

Anyway....enough of hijacking this thread...

deckx, As for your backpacking sister, I doubt she'll be taking that many taxis as most transportation is public --- only place I have ever taken a private taxi has been bangkok or samui when I am feeling rich and want to pay the taxi a fortune. As qualtrough points out, some of the biggest predators are other travellers. If a woman uses precaution and sense in her behavior and dress then she should have minimal problems.

Like anywhere in the world, if a woman places her self in a position of risk she shouldn't be surprised if something bad happens. yes, sometimes bad things happen even to those who don't behave riskily, but that could happen anywhere in the world. Its a sad fact of life that women are often prey. Its too bad but one must learn to deal with the reality of life. Considering how many young female travellers backpack through Thailand every year, it is fairly safe.

[Boo]

Never had a problem travelling in thailand & never had a problem with taxi drivers. Never had to tel them I have a husband as I don't converse with them. I just get in tell them where I want to go & open a book or play with the texting on my phone.

I do find it amazing though that one person would have so many bad expereinces with so many different types of people all the time. I spent many years as a single women travelling around country & never came across any of these problems so maybe it is down to being really really unlucky. I doubt anyone would have quite as many bad experiences but IMO travelling alone DOES come with some degree of risk but then if we lived in fear of what might happen then no one would ever leave home.

My tips; always have a book to use as a shield in public places, pretend not to speak english if someone is being really annoying. Don't be afraid to just get up & walk away from someone if they are annoying you, you don't know them so why care if they are offended. Learn the local cultureal customs, dress politly & always have a shawl/light cardo to cover up if you feel you are being stared at for wearing something revealing but don't dress like the Amish, thais wear shorts & t shirts/vests too. Use other thai poeple, epsecially women, if you are being harrassed. They are the best way to get rid of an overpersistant admirer (obviously only works in areas where they speak english) but IMO even approaching an older thai will send them scurrying.

Then the obvious, don't travle alone at night, take taxis don't walk, ask for directions if you are not sure don't just wander like a dope, look confident & carry keys in your hand to use as a weapon if you feel in any kind of danger & my number 1 tip.....TRUST YOUR GUT INSTINCT

[girlx]

SBK has never said anything like 'I've been in Thailand longer than you'. We are trying to help the OP discuss her situation. You are now on an higher warning level because you consistantly slag off all Thai men, and continue to go out with them, while you rant about ALL men that you've ever been near fancying you and coming on to you. It is against forum rules to make racist or slanderous remarks and you have again gone over the limit

i didn't ask for your opinion and you are not in a position to be warning me about what you interpret as racist (i do NOT slag off all thai men, i have one boyfriend whom i have been with for 2 years, and i am sorry if you can't deal with my opinion that thai men are not monogamous based one one discussion we had maybe a year ago but that is your problem not mine, thanks).

Edited October 31, 2007 by girlx

[percy2]

Its a bit catty in here.

I think girlx has a valid point about the risks of women riding alone in taxis late at night, be they Thai or tourist.

I'll be going to the airport in 1 hour to pick up her indoors because she is not comfortable in taxis late at night.

Cheers

[Andiamo]

Just to add that in my opinion, I personally feel that Thailand is a lot safer for me than living in London. Particularly travelling home at night!

Like other posters have mentioned, "Be confident, walk tall, dress sensibly and appropriately and walk as though you know where you are going." Use your common sense when taking a taxi - if you get in and the guy starts playing up or acting daft, or you just feel uncomfortable, get out again! Gauge the reaction and follow your gut feeling.

Similar to Boo's comments, there is no need to engage in chitchat with the driver!!! Especially if you are alone at night and you pick up a cab on Sukhumvit (Bangkok) and you get the same old questions... You married? You have baby? You have boyfriend? etc etc. Fiddle with your phone, call someone,ieven if it's just your landline and you talk to yourself if it's late and there's no one home! (I'm not really crazy, honest guv, as they take her away kicking and screaming to the Psychiatric Hospital!)

Also, if you're a bit worried, there is no need to get out of the cab exactly in front of your house (if it's down a dark small soi like ours!), you can get out nearby and walk by yourself Of course with your keys ready to gouge somebody's eyes out and your Karate kick ready to kick somebody in the heebie jeebies!! Go Charlies Angels Go!

As long as you take reasonable precautions, you'll be fine. I would totally recommend travelling abroad - doing voluntary work on Borneo during a GAP year when I was 19 years old, firmly believe made me the person I am today. It also ignited my interest in SE Asia!

I really hope you get to go!! Happy Travelling!, Enjoy meeting people and exploring - the world is your oyster!

[eek]

Similar to Boo's comments, there is no need to engage in chitchat with the driver!!! Especially if you are alone at night and you pick up a cab on Sukhumvit (Bangkok) and you get the same old questions... You married? You have baby? You have boyfriend? etc etc. Fiddle with your phone, call someone,ieven if it's just your landline and you talk to yourself if it's late and there's no one home! (I'm not really crazy, honest guv, as they take her away kicking and screaming to the Psychiatric Hospital!)

Also, if you're a bit worried, there is no need to get out of the cab exactly in front of your house (if it's down a dark small soi like ours!), you can get out nearby and walk by yourself Of course with your keys ready to gouge somebody's eyes out and your Karate kick ready to kick somebody in the heebie jeebies!! Go Charlies Angels Go!

If they take you away to the psychiatric hospital for that, then they will be carting me off along with you!

I use this phone 'trick' too. Generally just talking into the empty phone (and hoping it wont ring just at that point ..!). If im concerned in my surroundings i also do this, saying things like "will be there in 5. Meet you there right?". I have done the same in my home country and different countries for years whenever ive felt worried. Often if im walking home at night ill do this, and then when i open my door Ill talk to a non-existent person ie: "Hiiii there!....hows ur day been?". This deters anyone who i felt may have been possibly following me. (note: helps to have automatic lights/or light left on if u do this.) If im in a cab and worried i will talk into the phone and then recite the cab number over the phone too...loud enough for the cabbie to realise what im doing.

But...im not overly concerned, these are just precautions. I never go about looking lost or confused even if i am. I keep an air of confidence and dont engage in too much chit-chat if i get a "gut feeling". My gut feelings are usually pretty good, but even so, if i feel like chatting my conversations are light and i dont venture into too much personal information. Many times i will also say im married.

I also do the key thing. Plus its handy to get some kind of sharp/spikey keychain.

To the OP, what i have said isnt ment to worry you. For I feel very safe in Thailand. Its just making sure that you have some simple 'tricks' up your sleeve as a precautionary measure. THe sort of tricks you should have in any country. I am sure you most likely have your own already too.

My experience of living in THailand so far however has been in Chiang Mai and have only been in Bangkok for short periods of time, so i cannot offer experience regarding BK. Here (CM) when a tuk tuk driver calls out for custom i feel comfortable to refuse with a smile, which is always returned. It lifts my spirits to be smiled at in this way (purely friendly). Yes of course some men 'letch' a bit, but its usually guys who are sitting around outside a bar or people watching.

Anyway..im rambling. Im not sure what you can tell your father to ease his mind, but many of the suggestions given seem a pretty good start. Getting a portfolio of information, contact numbers etc, was one practical suggestion that is very useful (include things like a photocopy of your passport too). Working out what to do if anything ever goes wrong, running through possible scenarios with your father. Sit down with him and ask him what exactly are the various points of concern for him. Write them down, research them if you need to, then reassure him on each point. If you can ease his worries with practical solutions he may finally relent.

[JimmyCA]

Alright, I posted in another forum (Local forum for Bangkok) about doing a study abroad in Thailand, but I'm hitting a road block from my parents. My father seems to think that horrible things will happen if I live in Thailand for 5 months as a single 20 year old woman. He's scared by all the bad press about Bangkok, and the sex trade reputation it has. What can I do/show him that will show him that I'll be safe provided I use common sense?

Tell him you met a guy named JimmyCA (no relation) who will look after your EVERY NEED .

[canadiangirl]

As a woman, I've generally felt safe in Thailand, a lot safer than I feel in most American cities, and I've travelled alone in both.

Things you could do:

Would it help your father to be able to reach you at all times? It's really cheap to get a Thai simcard for your mobile phone, and I know it also makes me feel safer to have a working phone on me, especially at night.

Would it be an option to stay with a host family? Would something like that make your father feel safer?

If you're coming with a study abroad program, can you get more information on where you'd be living (on campus?), where you'd be studying, etc -- maybe knowing the specifics would help your father be reassured?

I found that most of avoiding problems in Thailand uses the same common sense as back home:

don't drink without having trusted friend to watch your back

avoid drugs like the plague

avoid taking taxis at night by yourself if you can. if you have to take one after a night of clubbing or something, bring a shawl or something to cover up your sexy outfit in the cab, don't act visibly drunk, and carry your mobile phone.

above all, trust your instincts!

It's completely unacceptable for Thai men to touch Thai women they don't know, and (I think sbk mentioned this first) if you act super, super offended if one of them tries to touch you, they will realize you know "the rules of the game" and usually back off. but i never found sexual harrassment to be a big problem in thailand, especially not on the scale that i hear it happens in places like morroco or india. most thai men are respectful, in my experience.

i don't know if this gives me any real security, but it makes me feel safer in a place like Thailand: i always try to make friends and get to know the people on my street, chat with them, go back to the same restaurants, use the same taxi driver if I can -- so I'm not just an anonymous person, but someone they know, so i feel like they might have my back and give a shit if something happened to me.

oh, i think the biggest risk in thailand, as qualtrough was saying (wow, I'm agreeing with qualtrough -- this is a historical occasion! :-P are the roads. The roads are dangerous. I travel by train or plane when I can, to avoid the roads, never take night busses anywhere, and have a few seconds chat with taxi drivers before getting in to see if they are visibly drunk or high (a lot of them are, unfortunately).

good luck with your studies, i hope it works out!

Edited October 31, 2007 by canadiangirl

[seonai]

Jorinda you could make sure you always travel with another student, perhaps your dad would agree to that?

Girlx if you have any problems regarding moderation please do not post publically (its against the rules) - the OP has actually PM'd me for a balanced opinion so I am dealing with that - I'm not going to be intimidated by you this time, I am perfectly in a position to warn you for OTT behaviour. If you question me publically again you will face a holiday. Contact Admin if any probs