My E-mail To True For True Insufficient Service......

[Thanh-BKK]

Let's see if i get as much a reply as from their callcenter

"Hello.

I have just gotten TRUE "super High Speed" on saturday, and ever since my connection has LESS THAN HALF THE SPEED AS BEFORE!

When i was on 512/256 i could actually get 500/200 kbps on a number of worldwide speed-test sites. Now i am getting like 250/120 Kbps!!

This is completely unacceptable, considered that i am supposed to get 1,500/512 kbps now!!

Also using BitTorrent, i used to be able to go at 80/35 kBps down/up (i know there was a "extra 256k bonus") but now, on "Super High Speed" i am LUCKY when i reach 50/35 kBps!! TRUE, i am expecting 160/60 kBps minimum!!

Having 1,530/510 kbps to a TRUE server does not help me because there is no INTERNET coming from there. INTERNET comes from "INTER", which is OUTSIDE Thailand. And even to neighbouring Malaysia the speed is down to 210/90 kbps.

And don't even TRY to blame it on my setup, because i am a system administrator and know what i am doing. It is TRUE's service which is clearly NOT sufficient here.

And i am STILL waiting for altogether THREE "we will call you back" from your callcenter staff, by the way. They are good in making promises, but poor in keeping them.

You expect me to pay my bill, so please, give me the service i am paying for.

Best regards.

Thanh"

[Richard-BKK]

Yes lets see what for reaction you get on this, especially the Bittorrent part.

[zorro1]

I have left 4 messages to call centre requesting ubc over a 3 week perod . Not 1 reply so dont hold your breath

[Dissolution]

I'm feeling optimistic today. They'll get around to fixing their connection right after they get around to ensuring world peace.

I'm sure.

[Guest Reimar]

Thanh:

You wouldn't get any positive answer and for sure NOT any positive result!

On private/public accounts they even didn't promis the speed from your location to the ISP, which means between you and TRUE! Even for leased Lines they promis just 80% of the speed to the ISP! They didn't pronis ANY speed to international site!

Read the fine print of your contract!

May you call to the head of the Calling Center Khun Chompunat at 086 599 5822!

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi

Well for one there is no "contract" since i called the call center and they told me that i would be getting "1.5 Mbit", they did NOT tell me that this is "only in Thailand". And if it were, they would be under obligation to tell me so.

I received their reply, which is basically as follows (a joke):

"Dear Mr. Thanh. Thank you for using our service. We wish to inform you that we have received your e-mail and we apologise for any inconvenience. We will contact you within 24 hours".

And that is NOT a joke.

So i complained about them never contacting me (as promised) and their reply is "we will contact you". Good one, TRUE.

About UBC: In my case, they were overly quick with that - when i wanted UBC i made an appointment for next day 5 PM, well i received a call at 12 that day (!!) why nobody opens the door? Well, because i was at the office and the appointment was five hours later?? So they should come back at 5 please, ok? Next call i received at 3.45 - still nobody opening the door? hel_l yeah because i was still at the office and it still wasn't 5 PM!! My advise was to go the shop across my soi and get a watch for 50 Baht. Well i was at home at 4.50 and the UBC guys came really at 5 PM sharp And when my decoder broke down after just two days they were there within two hours to replace it. Not bad either.

But then... UBC was still UBC and not "TRUE Vision".

Best regards.....

Thanh

[Guest Reimar]

Hi

Well for one there is no "contract" since i called the call center and they told me that i would be getting "1.5 Mbit", they did NOT tell me that this is "only in Thailand". And if it were, they would be under obligation to tell me so.

Sure you HAVE a cotract: You signed for the Service at the time you was applying for! Isn't it?

That signed Letter for the Service you ordered at that time is the Contract! It doesn't matter if they "upgrade" your connection or not.

[technocracy]

No hope in short.

You'll no doubt be on a contended bandwidth so all they'll say is 'well the slow down is maybe because the area you are in has high amount of users'.

Let put it this way they aren't going to do anything to fix it.

Same in the UK - BT have 72 hours working time to invesitgate a 'Business' DSL service (sold by nearly all SPs in the UK) - but the thing they miss out is the 72 hours is purely there working time when they send a question to you the 'clock stops' so the 72 hours could be anywhere from 72hours to . . . weeks or months!

Quoting Bittorrents which only give them a laugh! The standard response will be . . we don't have control over the application you are using.

If you are on a 50:1 contention (as have been said you WILL have a contract) then you are only guaranteed 3Kbps . .. .

Edited October 30, 2007 by technocracy

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi

Well for one there is no "contract" since i called the call center and they told me that i would be getting "1.5 Mbit", they did NOT tell me that this is "only in Thailand". And if it were, they would be under obligation to tell me so.

Sure you HAVE a cotract: You signed for the Service at the time you was applying for! Isn't it?

That signed Letter for the Service you ordered at that time is the Contract! It doesn't matter if they "upgrade" your connection or not.

If that is the case, why do they do upgrades in first place? Sure, my written contract is for a 512/256 connection at a price of 750 Baht per month. Now i have upgraded it (via phone only) to 1.5M/512k, there was no paperwork involved, only a confirmation SMS sent to me that the "application was successfull". Does that mean now that even tough i have that confirmation SMS i still am only eligible to receive 512/256? In any other place they would call that "scam".

And by the way if i am on a torrent that has several thai seeders on it, i DO get the 1.5M - almost at least, i had one coming in yesterday evening at 155 kB/s, which is 1.240 kbps.

And yeah, what do THEY expect people doing with fast connections? Surfing the web or doing e-mail doesn't need megabits. Of course it's torrenting that drives web developments....... would we have megabit connections today if not for Bit Torrent?

Best regards.....

Thanh

[technocracy]

And yeah, what do THEY expect people doing with fast connections? Surfing the web or doing e-mail doesn't need megabits. Of course it's torrenting that drives web developments....... would we have megabit connections today if not for Bit Torrent?

Thanh

Bit Torrents have absolutely nothing to do with the availability of Mbit links to the home! Bit Torrents only came about due to the availablity of them .. .. other way around! The reason the Mbit links are available is simply because they can! Standard ADSL has always been able operate at 8Mbps (for the past 8+ years) . .. . but providers never allowed since there backbones would get swamped quicker.

Many sites using Java, Flash, inline videos, music and the take a lot of bandwidth to run decently - the days of a website being 'just' text and a few pictures is long long gone.

If you want to know what ISP expect you to do with a high speed home link I'll tell you: Use it sensibly! Not just constantly run it a full bandwidth downloading multiple Gigs worth of Bittorrents - in many countries (UK certainly) they'd switch you off and tell you go elsewhere!

[Insight]

Got to be honest with you - Regardless of technical content, in a Thai support (oxymoron, I know) dept I can see that email going straight to the bottom of the pile owing to its aggressive, demanding nature.

Forget about how unfair that might be. Aggressiveness generally works against you here - it's just a fact of life.

[Guest Reimar]

technocracy is right!

And to be honest, most of the Torrents downloaded are just pirated software/movies/mp3 and so on! Do you really think that the ISP's just upgrading the system speed to honor the download of pirated stuff?!

If an ISP gives you an upgrade for free, that didn't mean that the existing contract is expired! The real rights you having are the one you really paying for and within the limitation they publically announced: the fine print in the contract('s)!

[technocracy]

And to be honest, most of the Torrents downloaded are just pirated software/movies/mp3 and so on! Do you really think that the ISP's just upgrading the system speed to honor the download of pirated stuff?!

Yep, ISPs couldn't give a toss whether your Bittorrent works or not - many will filter ports to stop it on some accounts or quite possibly what you are seeing is they limit the bandwidth that Torrent traffic is limited the utilise of their core links. I've work in many many providers and know this reality not some made up fiction.

They have to keep all the mass downloaders undercontrol to allow 'normal' users to have access to the sites they want.

It's kind of like the porn traffic - at height of the boom then bust in 2000-2001 of the internet I know of a certain startup provider that went out (like they all did) buying the biggest & fastest equipment the venture funds people would let them buy. One of there purchases was a huge disk array for content caching to improve bandwidth utilisation - when this company like many went bust you know what they were left with ............ one of the largest caches of porn in Europe!

Just one example why ISPs are a bit more cautious these days!

The rule is if you want unlimited bandwidth and very high performance then you have to pay for the uncontended bandwidth with which you can get guarantees.

[Thanh-BKK]

Well......

If an ISP advertises for 1.5 MB they should give 1.5 MB, regardless if it is used to surf Yahoo on 145 computers at the same time or for downloading pirated porn at full throttle. The ISP's job is to provide bandwidth, not to care what the users are doing with that bandwidth. Everything else (like packet shaping and such BS measures) is simply a SCAM.

Imagine going to buy a new BMW and they tell you "You get 200 horsepowers, but you are restricted to drive 55 KM/h on curved roads only. If you drive faster or on other roads we will take the car away". Would you go for the deal?

Or if they say "Dear valued BMW driver, you get a free engine upgrade from 150 to 250 horsepower. However you have to accept that you will actually only have 70 horsepower because we say so". Again, what do you think about THAT?

And being rude at least gets you somewhere here, i have that experience plenty of times. Smile and be nice - and get screwed, over and over. But using a few strong words and reminding them of their duties does the trick and service will be provided! "Customer service" is to provide the paying customer with service, no more and no less. And if they don't do that, they need to be reminded why they are working there.

(My boyfriend always complains that he is getting ripped off left and right, however he never gets the idea of telling the people that do rip him off what they are. Thai politeness. Unfortunately totally exploited by fellow Thais..... "we screw you because we know you will smile and walk away")

By the way i DID receive a second e-mail from TRUE, from a manager no less, telling me that my problem is under investigation and will be resolved "shortly". To which i replied politely, appreciating their efforts but expecting results, too.

Best regards......

Thanh

[sniffdog]

Let me say it carefully ... you obviously have no clue. Comparing a car with Internet service .....

The speed, as with all providers in Thailand, is from the Bangkok server to you, not international. They didn't tell you, did you ask them? Did you read

the contract you signed?

Do a speedtest.net test to a local server and you'll see you get about 80% the the bandwidth promised.

On my 2mb/512 TOT I get 1752/372 .. more than 80%. The speed of international web browsing is sufficient and using Flashget and CFosspeed I get

170-225Kb downloads from Rapidshare ... 24 hours a day.

STOP COMPLAINING .. it won't help.

Edited October 30, 2007 by sniffdog

[cali]

The speed, as with all providers in Thailand, is from the Bangkok server to you, not international.

So if you buy a 2mbps package and discover international speed peaks 99% below that and they never told you about that little problem in advance would you say that's not the ISP's fault? Of course it is. It is the job of the ISP to purchase upstream international bandwidth in accordance with customer needs. If an ISP has a few guys on dialup, then they don’t need much of it. If they have a million people with megabit packages they need a lot more on hand. This is basic common sense. Starving customers of bandwidth well below what they thought they were purchasing and not telling them anything about that in their contract is wrong.

[technocracy]

Well......

If an ISP advertises for 1.5 MB they should give 1.5 MB, regardless if it is used to surf Yahoo on 145 computers at the same time or for downloading pirated porn at full throttle. The ISP's job is to provide bandwidth, not to care what the users are doing with that bandwidth. Everything else (like packet shaping and such BS measures) is simply a SCAM.

Imagine going to buy a new BMW and they tell you "You get 200 horsepowers, but you are restricted to drive 55 KM/h on curved roads only. If you drive faster or on other roads we will take the car away". Would you go for the deal?

Or if they say "Dear valued BMW driver, you get a free engine upgrade from 150 to 250 horsepower. However you have to accept that you will actually only have 70 horsepower because we say so". Again, what do you think about THAT?

Yeah you own a car that does 160mph - you do 160mph everyday and Mr Policeman is going to take it off you. Is that clear enough?

The company provide 1.5mbps from your house to the Ingress DSLAM - that is it. Beyond that you are into the contention of the network be it the local 50:1 contention on that DSLAM, locally in Thailand or International links. They have a certain amount of bandwidth and the more people they can get on that bandwidth the more money they can make. Just because YOU want to connect to everything at 1.5Mbps does mean this is what you get.

Next time you speak to them ask them to send you a copy of there T&Cs. ALL and I mean ALL ISPs have contended networks, it is nigh on impossible to operate one in with totally uncontended bandwidth.

Any ISP will tell you they'll look into it and yes they'll connect to the device you are connected look that you are passing data and there isn't errors and that is it! If there is no errors there ain't nothing they can do.

I'll say it one more time just so it clear - virtually all ADSL services operate on a 50:1 or if your lucky 20:1 contention ratio. So guaranteeing only 3.75kbps on a 50:1 service and 9.375kbps on a 20:1, nearly all will provide more due to having excess bandwidth. However how much of your connect line rate you get is purely down to contention.

Imagine you have just 1000 users with 1.5Mbps in your logic this means the ISP needs to reserve 1.5Gbps on the there core . . . just to 1000 users . . . on all links. So just 10,000 home users = 15Gbps .. .. .. it just does not happen!

Most ISPs still have 2.5Gbps or even 1Gbps cores! I worked at an Metro Ethernet provider who provided 100Mbps circuits to users (yes 100Meg) they have over 300 customers simultaneously connected and you know what the core was . . 1Gbps (albeit it with resilient paths). If any 10 users start hammer there links there core was in trouble . . however traffic flow isn't this predictable hence why smaller links are used.