Soy, Too Much Is Bad, Who Knew?

[Jingthing]

OK, according to this article. too much soy, and many of us are eating too much soy without even knowing it because its hidden in many modern food products, is harmful. And people who have been using soy milk to replace cows milk (as I do) are really damaged. Does this sound credible?

Another interesting problem. According to this article, drinking soy milk hurts your thyroid. My thyroid is already gone, and I don't like milk, I prefer soy milk. Can someone like me continue to drink soy milk without harm because the damage is already done?

http://www.utne.com/2007-07-01/2007-142-Ho...s-Too-Much.aspx

More on the dark side of soy. Its funny real. Something we were taught is healthy, perhaps the opposite of healthy? Chang beer is looking better, but it doesn't go so well over breakfast cereal:

http://www.utne.com/2007-07-01/TheDarkSideofSoy.aspx

Edited October 29, 2007 by Jingthing

[zzdocxx]

Interesting, I've not heard about this yet.

[londonthai]

first link doesn't work.

eat everything in moderation, you will be fine

[Jingthing]

first link doesn't work.

eat everything in moderation, you will be fine

Fixed it.

[Jingthing]

eat everything in moderation, you will be fine

Many of us eat cereal with milk or soy milk EVERY day. Apparently that is not moderation for soy milk and may be causing people real damage. I was also under the impression that cows milk is filled with chemicals and not so good for adults. What to do? Cereal with water not so good.

Edited October 30, 2007 by Jingthing

[londonthai]

try yogurt, sour milk

even if you believe soya is not good - soya milk is some 95% water, no not demage done if you use it from time to time

btw - both links are down now

[Jingthing]

Yogurts a good idea. Sorry about the links, they were working before. The articles were pretty convincing and I don't think the fact that soy milk is mostly water means anything if you drink it everyday. The idea is not to give up soy, just to eat much less of it and be aware that it is hidden in many products anyway. I personally have to wonder why my thyroid disappeared after using soy milk for years, so I take this info really seriously. Too bad, because like I said, I am one of those freaks that really loves all kinds of soy products, including tofu.

As those links do seem dead, the best I can do is to include this abstract of one of the articles from brijit.com:

How Much Is Too Much

in Utne Reader by Mary Vance, July/August 2007

Too much soy can have drastic effects on our health. Overconsumption of the bean and the many products made from it can lead to fatigue, weight gain, and depression. Soy milk is the worst offender, directly affecting the thyroid. According to the author, soy formula has been responsible for several infant deaths due to deficiencies of key vitamins. Vance says that if you want more calcium in your diet -- and want to avoid soy -- you should try coconut milk and dolomite powder. She also discusses a campaign to have health warnings placed on soy products.

Signed,

Did Big Soya Steal My Thyroid?

Edited October 30, 2007 by Jingthing

[Crossy]

Neither link works for me Does this add to their credibility (been removed by the soya magnates)?

BTW a few years back there was a scare article that stated that cabbage was a lethal poison, they neglected to note that to feel any ill effects you needed to eat several tonnes of the stuff

I like soya milk, I'll continue to drink it, in moderation of course.

EDIT A quick Google on 'soya milk poison' turns up several similar scare stores.

Edited October 30, 2007 by Crossy

[Jingthing]

The Utne Reader is a well respected US alternative magazine. Ironically, over the years they have been a big promoter of things like vegetarianism and using soy to replace meat. The links are broken because of technical reasons, obviously. It can't be denied that there are powerful forces behind corn and soy production these days. Corn syrup is used in almost all processed foods and evidence is that it leads to obesity and all the deadly diseases associated with obesity. We have lost control of our food. Simple is better.

I like soya milk too. But I also might like heroin if I tried it, but I know better.

Edited October 30, 2007 by Jingthing

[mark100]

OK, according to this article. too much soy, and many of us are eating too much soy without even knowing it because its hidden in many modern food products, is harmful. And people who have been using soy milk to replace cows milk (as I do) are really damaged. Does this sound credible?

Another interesting problem. According to this article, drinking soy milk hurts your thyroid. My thyroid is already gone, and I don't like milk, I prefer soy milk. Can someone like me continue to drink soy milk without harm because the damage is already done?

http://www.utne.com/2007-07-01/2007-142-Ho...s-Too-Much.aspx

More on the dark side of soy. Its funny real. Something we were taught is healthy, perhaps the opposite of healthy? Chang beer is looking better, but it doesn't go so well over breakfast cereal:

http://www.utne.com/2007-07-01/TheDarkSideofSoy.aspx

l work as a personal trainer and lm currently studying for a degree in Nutritonal Therapy so maybe l can answer some of your questions on Soya.

Soya contrary to popular believe is no longer considered to be good for you, and there is overwhelming scientific eveidence to support this theory.

Soya is widely used in over 60% of the processed foods we consume (food industry figures), although food companies use many different names on their food labels so it's not always apparent that the food you are eating contains Soya.

Soya contains chemicals that have been proved to damage your health, they are called Phytates. Phytates ( Phlic Acid )affect your abilty to absorb certain minerals and can interfere with protein digestion. Calcium is one of the minerals effected by Phytates so if you become deficient in this vitally important mineral it could effect your bone denisty and lead to osteoporosis.

The main problem with Soya is it contains Phytoestrogens, originally these chemicals were thought to be beneficial to health, but these are some of the possible side-effects of consuming large amounts Phytoestrogens.

Thyroid function is effected, normally depressed which can lead to Goitre, Hypothyroidism and Auto-Immune Thyroid Disease.

Feeding your baby with Soya milk is the equivalent to giving your child five birth control pills a day, girls can have puberty at age 3 from ingesting Phytoestrogens and there is a possible link to penis damage in young boys. Brain damage and retardation is another possible side effect for young boys.

Years ago it was thought Soya was good for you because it was consumed in the far east in large amounts,especially Japan. Studies have found this to be inaccurate and the average consumption of Soya was no more than 8-10 grams in the average Japanese person.

For sure Phytoestrogens do have health benefits, but for me the negatives far outweigh the postives.

[Jingthing]

Thanks Mark.

My thyroid shrunk to nothing over the years. I asked my doctor back when it happened why and he said my immune system destroyed it, but he didn't offer a reason that happened.

Now I think it might be soy milk. I have been using the stuff daily for years and years. I recently stopped.

Of course the funny part is I had always thought using soy products was the healthier alternative to meats and dairy. Sometimes you can't win. Of course, the soy is also present hidden in all kinds of processed foods like you said.

Edited November 2, 2007 by Jingthing

[eek]

The main problem with Soya is it contains Phytoestrogens, originally these chemicals were thought to be beneficial to health, but these are some of the possible side-effects of consuming large amounts Phytoestrogens.

Thyroid function is effected, normally depressed which can lead to Goitre, Hypothyroidism and Auto-Immune Thyroid Disease.

OH hel_l! Ok..ive been veggie for 18 years and have supplemented my diet with soya products including soya milk. Now, although 18 years is a long time..i have for this last 5 months been suffering badly with thyroid problems. So much so I had to go to bangkok frm CM for tests at Bumrungrad. (I posted in the health section of TV on this). I also have goiter. Now, it may be coincidence but..its certainly given me food for thought...

Edited November 2, 2007 by eek

[Jingthing]

Let this be a warning to people. Cut down on soy. It couldn't hurt.

[eek]

Im definately going to cut down! I eat TONS of soy based products. Oh the <deleted> irony...

Thank you Jingthing for this thread.

[mark100]

Thanks Mark.

My thyroid shrunk to nothing over the years. I asked my doctor back when it happened why and he said my immune system destroyed it, but he didn't offer a reason that happened.

Now I think it might be soy milk. I have been using the stuff daily for years and years. I recently stopped.

Of course the funny part is I had always thought using soy products was the healthier alternative to meats and dairy. Sometimes you can't win. Of course, the soy is also present hidden in all kinds of processed foods like you said.

l think Soya gained some of it's popularity because of the explosion in low carb diets; such as Atkins and everybody thought high protein diets were the way forward.

This a double edged sword because Phytoestrogens block the absorption of Calcium and other minerals and the more protein you eat the more Calcium you need to digest it. High protein diets are not good for your kidneys also.

Have you been diagnosed with a particular thyroid condition, because if you can tell me the exact problem l may be able to help you.

Most of the reasoning behind Soya being good for you was based upon people from Asia having lower obesity rates than their western counterparts, although they failed to realise it was other factors in the asian diet like fish and fresh vegetables and hardly any processed food that made them thinner.

[Jingthing]

I think its hypothyroidism. But my doc just said my thyroid had shrunk down to almost invisible so the hormone production was no longer happening. This is easy and cheap to treat, just take the hormone everyday for life. BTW, if you are gaining weight faster than you think makes sense based on your diet and exercise, by all means, get your thyroid levels checked. It can cause major damage if you don't treat it.

Edited November 2, 2007 by Jingthing

[JimmyTheMook]

So my evening snack of "Nam Ta Who" is a bad thing then ?

[Jingthing]

So my evening snack of "Nam Ta Who" is a bad thing then ?

I think some people are more sensitive to this than others. If my problem was caused by soy milk, whos to say another person who ate the same amount of soy would have reacted the same way. Sounds doubtful.

[mark100]

I think its hypothyroidism. But my doc just said my thyroid had shrunk down to almost invisible so the hormone production was no longer happening. This is easy and cheap to treat, just take the hormone everyday for life. BTW, if you are gaining weight faster than you think makes sense based on your diet and exercise, by all means, get your thyroid levels checked. It can cause major damage if you don't treat it.

Jingthing the reason why l asked you if you had been diagnosed is because the thyroid gland is responsible for regulating metabolism and if you start supplementing T4 when you don't need it you can mess up your thyroid for good !!

Thyroxine or T4 is a hormone secreted by the follicular cells of the thyroid gland and is the main hormone responsible for thyroid regulation along with T3. Some people develop underactive thyroid usually caused by the body not producing enough T4, this is normally caused by damage to the thyroid gland itself, usually from inflamation. Sometimes the pituitary gland in the brain does'nt produce enough TSH (thyroid stimulating hormone) which then effects the message to your thyroid to produce T3 and T4.

Symtoms of Hypothyroidism are, fatigue, depression, hair loss, skin problems, weight gain, muscle cramps and constipation. Sorry there are many more but l can't remember of the top of my head.

The worst thing you can do with this condition is go on a low calorie diet, because your metabolism is slow anyway restricting food intake will slow it down further and weight gain will follow.

Sorry will have to get into this with you tomorrow the wife is waiting to go out, sorry for any spelling mistakes in advance.

Mark

[Jingthing]

Thanks, Mark. Yes, it is very hard for me to lose weight. But with the hormone at least not gaining (much).

All I know is that the thyroid shrunk to almost nothing because my immune system overreacted and destroyed it. That happened before I starting taking the hormone. I don't know how long it was between losing my thyroid and getting diagnosed though.

Edited November 2, 2007 by Jingthing

[kat]

Yes, I discovered this over the last year after my return to the states, and have now switched off of soy milk to almond milk, which is a very nice replacement. I still have small amounts of soy products, but in moderation. I no longer eat soy as a low-cost health item as I did during my previous 4 years in Asia.

On my return, I also had to battle chronic stomach problems (mostly which I thought was due to a parasite infection), and these newly occurring allergies, one of which is to milk. So, it does sound as if my auto-immune system is already overactive, and the milk allergy may be more than just a deficiency in milk proteins due to abstinence. But, I'm still figuring that one out.

Edited November 2, 2007 by kat

[Boo]

My baby son is allergic to cow milk & cow milk products so have been told to use soya in cooking his food once he is fully on solids but as he is on a protien based non dairy non soya formula & due to this issue with soy, I use that for his cooking instead but he does have Alprosoy yogurts & I use soya cheese to flavour his food. Does anyone know what is a safe amount for a small baby to be eating. He usually has one yogurt a day & a small spoon of soya cream cheese mixed with vegtables but not every day. Does this sound ok??

As Kat said, almond milk is a nice alternative for cereals & drinks but rice milk is another one too & makes pretty nice mash potato & is good for cooking with fish.

[Firefan]

Problem here in Thailand is to find non-soy containing milk alternatives. Have found the rice milk in the small cartons but they are sweetened a bit with suger...

Cheers!

[kat]

Boo, I'm still learning all about this, because on my return home I was also diagnosed with a cow's milk allergy, which in retrospect showed signs before my trip to Asia but I was less savvy about pinpointing. I have met some biological relatives who have also confirmed that my bio father had a cow's milk allergy, so it could be genetic for me as with your son.

However, I am certain of one thing: in the case of babies and soy products you have to be really careful. I don't know enough because I didn't focus on babies in my exploration of this issue, but there are a lot of warnings out there. Self-educate yourself on this and figure out an alternative, such as almond milk.

Unfortunately, there isn't really much alternatives after soy cheese products, which I eat myself

[kat]

As Kat said, almond milk is a nice alternative for cereals & drinks but rice milk is another one too & makes pretty nice mash potato & is good for cooking with fish.

Yes, and I am also starting to explore light coconut milk as an alternative for fish and heavy sauces. Rice milk is also yummy, and in the Western food coops I think you can find selections without a high sugar content.

[Boo]

Luckily, here all rice & almond milk can be bought unsweetened. I really don't like giving sonny too much soya so limit him to one yogurt a day but as he is weaning, am really limited by what foods I can give him.

It's interesting what you say about a biological connection as my husband often complains of a bad stomach if he has something containing a lot of cows milk.

Also, there was a study recently that said 40+% of people of afrocarribean, asian & oriental decent were lactose intolerant. Sadly here in the UK the health visitors don't take much notice of it so it took me nearly 3 months of persistant complaining before they took my concerns about Sonnys allergy serious & that was only after I changed him to soya milk whilst holidaying in thailand & saw an instant inprovement. He then got changed to the non soya non dairy formula & we haven't looked back since.

[kat]

Yes, it's very true about lactose intolerance of Asian and Afro-Carib people, of which my bio father was a combination of all. However, what I recently found out through my own research (because my Western, HMO doctor was actually more of a hindrance than a help), is that cow's milk allergies and lactose intolerance are two different conditions. Both can affect the GI tract, but lactose intolerance is primarily about the GI tract, whereas an allergy presents auto-immune symptoms in your respiratory system, such as chronic sneezing, runny nose, puffy and red eyes, nasal drip, which can even progress to slight wheezing and asthmatic symptoms. I think in lactose intolerance, it comes down to a lack of lactase (sp?) in your digestive tract, whereas the allergies are a reaction to the protein in the cow's milk.

There are also two proteins in cow's milk which can produce different reactions, such as the whey in milk or the casein found in cheese. They say you are allergic to either one, but I don't know which it is because my ineffectual HMO doctor did not test me or refer me to an allergist, so I will have to figure it out through an elimination diet. I will try to find some good links and post.

*links (the verdict is still out on soy products):

http://www.kidshealth.org/parent/medical/a...lk_allergy.html

http://www.nutramed.com/children/kidsmilk.htm

http://www.faiusa.org/section_home.cfm?sec...ub_section_id=3

http://www.hpakids.org/holistic-health/art...fe-for-Children

http://nutrition.about.com/od/askyournutri...oy_and_kids.htm

http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/darkside.html

http://www.thevegetariansite.com/vegchild.htm

https://www.lawyersandsettlements.com/case/...infant_leukemia

http://www.parenting.com/parenting/child/a...1620006,00.html

Edited November 2, 2007 by kat

[kat]

Actually, about alternatives to soy cheese: I just went to my kitchen to make lunch, and realized that I am not eating soy cheese, but an alternative rice cheese! So much for staying informed Anyway, they do exist, and it is pretty good melted.

[mark100]

My baby son is allergic to cow milk & cow milk products so have been told to use soya in cooking his food once he is fully on solids but as he is on a protien based non dairy non soya formula & due to this issue with soy, I use that for his cooking instead but he does have Alprosoy yogurts & I use soya cheese to flavour his food. Does anyone know what is a safe amount for a small baby to be eating. He usually has one yogurt a day & a small spoon of soya cream cheese mixed with vegtables but not every day. Does this sound ok??

As Kat said, almond milk is a nice alternative for cereals & drinks but rice milk is another one too & makes pretty nice mash potato & is good for cooking with fish.

Boo, again have you had your son diagnosed with an allergy to milk products, because it is likely he is lactose intolerant rather than allergic. They did a study in the USA a few years ago where they asked 8,000 or more people if they thought they had a food allergy. Around 30% of people thought they had an allergy and approx 20% of their children had an allergy, but in fact when they tested everybody they found approx 1% of adults and around 6% of children had allergys. The majority of the children would grow out of the allergy they had.

There is no safe amount to give your children stop now, sorry this is the best advice l can give you.

[mark100]

Luckily, here all rice & almond milk can be bought unsweetened. I really don't like giving sonny too much soya so limit him to one yogurt a day but as he is weaning, am really limited by what foods I can give him.

It's interesting what you say about a biological connection as my husband often complains of a bad stomach if he has something containing a lot of cows milk.

Also, there was a study recently that said 40+% of people of afrocarribean, asian & oriental decent were lactose intolerant. Sadly here in the UK the health visitors don't take much notice of it so it took me nearly 3 months of persistant complaining before they took my concerns about Sonnys allergy serious & that was only after I changed him to soya milk whilst holidaying in thailand & saw an instant inprovement. He then got changed to the non soya non dairy formula & we haven't looked back since.

Bad stomach is probably lactose intolerance which causes flatulence and makes you feel awful for 2-3 hours after ingesting a large amount of diary products, l know l suffer from this my self.