I Have Graduated From Jai Dee Farang To Kee Neeo

[Jingthing]

OK, I am now hearing it more said by Thais about me. I am known in Pattaya by Thais and they know I live here all seasons, so they are treating me much differently.

I am hearing the KN word: kee neeo

which translates as stingy

But I have evidence there is more to this than meets the insult.

Now a tourist is expected to be very dumb and very spendy and can often receive the jai dee farang status, which in some circles and some cases really does mean big sucker farang.

Now, I know there are jai dee expats. I can't afford to be one here or anywhere and frankly that doesn't bother me at all. Spending money like a drunken sailor is fun for a holiday but its kind of an empty choice as a life.

In the book, Thai Lite, by S Tsow the author mentions the KN word: kee neeo several times, but in an entirely different light than you (or I) might expect.

According to Tsow, this insult is a sign that you are now recognized as someone who has arrived at a certain level of knowledge of Thai life, and that implies a certain respect. Now in a tourist town like Pattaya, such knowledge is obviously not of much interest to the many Thais who live off gaming and scamming the "jai dee" farangs.

So, even though I still flinch a little when I hear this, I now realize I had better get used to it. And I take comfort in Mr Tsow's explanation of the matter.

Please share your experiences with the KN word: kee neeo

To clarify a little: I am not being called Cheap Charley. I am being called kee neeo. Well actually, a Thai will say it to another Thai, and I do still flinch and react when I hear this. I get the impression that the Thais are telling the other Thais: he lives here and isn't a sucker, so don't waste your time trying. But the weird thing is they say it loud and of course I undertand and if they really believe I am kee neeo wouldn't they assume I know the meaning of it, and do they care about that either way?

According to Mr Tsow the proper response to being called kee neeo is to feel good about it because you have really arrived. I am not that advanced in my emotional reactions to this as yet.

If this is a shock to early stage Thaiphiles who are still hypnotized by the smiles: GOOD!!!!

Edited October 31, 2007 by Jingthing

[torrenova]

You will hear it from places where you once spent money more freely.

You will hear girls warning other girls of your attitude to finances. This can be joking but is often in the negative sense.

Basically you will get it from people who want money for nothing or to be paid OTT.

You will not hear it in Carrefour.

[Jingthing]

For the record, I spend normally as I would if I lived back in America, not as I would if I were on vacation in Pattaya. I don't live on street food. I live in Pattaya so I am not on vacation anymore. I also usually tip unless service is horrible, but not over the top. I am guessing I tip more than an average Thai but certainly less than an average American tourist.

To me the kn words do sound insulting, but I am not sure of the proper response. I don't intend to change my behavior at all to hear something different. Should I? Would you? I guess if I was really insecure I would keep a wad of 1000 baht bills handy to give out to groups of Thai people insulting me. What would I be called then? My guess would be: kee neeo ting tong

BTW, to clarify, I don't mean to imply that all those called jai dee farangs are fools and suckers anymore than all those called kee neeos are really stingy. Thais do like the labels, don't they?

Edited October 31, 2007 by Jingthing

[Manchester]

You,re being insulted.

You are not " known " as such.

My Thai wife has just stated that it is an insult.

There again...............if you have been here that long you would know this. Sorry.

Edited October 31, 2007 by Manchester

[Manchester]

. Thais do like the labels, don't they?

Yes they do. And you have yours.

[JetsetBkk]

OK, I am now hearing it more said by Thais about me. I am known in Pattaya by Thais and they know I live here all seasons, so they are treating me much differently.

I am hearing the KN word: kee neeo

which translates as stingy....

Just tell anyone who says you're "kêe nĭeow" ( ขี้เหนียว ) that you are "pray-aad" ( ประหยัด ) which means thrifty, economical, not wasteful.

[Jingthing]

You,re being insulted.

You are not " known " as such.

My Thai wife has just stated that it is an insult.

There again...............if you have been here that long you would know this. Sorry.

I didn't doubt I am being insulted. But consider the type of people that have insulted me. Thai people who are parasitical on sucker farangs. I offer no great sustenance to human parasites. And I beg to differ that any Thai person is the be all end all opinion on the FARANG expat experience. They don't have a clue what its like.

As far as what I know or what I don't know, I referred to what an experienced farang expat author wrote. I would have never thought what he wrote in 1000 years, but after considering what he writes, I still think there is some truth to it if you think outside the lines. If a Thai person who exploits farangs insults you this way, yes he is calling you a cheapo, but also yes, he may also be expressing that you know the game because you live here, you know the dark things that go on here and you aren't an easy mark. So you do know more.

I kind of expected flames like yours. Not sure it was so wise to post this, but I guess I asked for it.

Do I think it sucks for being insulted for just trying to live a normal life and not act like a crazed sex tourist? Yes, but I am a big boy and I can handle it!

And I do love Pattaya, (genital) warts and all.

Edited October 31, 2007 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

. Thais do like the labels, don't they?

Yes they do. And you have yours.

Agreed. It is very human and universal.

[PadThaiGuy]

Being called cheap is a big insult and those that say it deserve a smack in the mouth.

[Jingthing]

Being called cheap is a big insult and those that say it deserve a smack in the mouth.

Yeah I am coming to that conclusion, but I am a lover, not a fighter and I would probably end up in jail, or worse.

I think next time I will just flash a big evil SMILE. Works for them, I can play too.

Compared to the two week millionaires, I suppose they have a point too. Who does this walking ATM think he is. He is not responding as expected.

Edited October 31, 2007 by Jingthing

[qwertz]

They can call me what they like so long as my money stays in my pocket and not theirs.

It's easy for me to take the jibe while I'm taking care not to be scammed.

Anyway, no polite Thai would say this so I'm safe in assuming that anyone calling me kin niao is low life.

[KhunDennis]

I have discussed this very topic with a good friend that also lives in Thailand. Our opinion coincides a lot with Jingthings' ideas.

We both have heard this stingy description applied to Thai men we know as well. These men are responsible, hard working guys that are getting ahead, and don't give away their money to layabout relatives, that want a free ride. The people who just want to take your money for nothing, are the ones that will call you stingy, so who cares.

I think the majority of good Thai people will respect you more for it. I like to be generous to people that do work for me, and pay well. I also tip well when out and about, but the days of being suckered are over. At least if I have not had, too much to drink.

[Theyreallrubbish]

I reply with a smile in Thai, Correct and I'm a rich man because I'm cheap.

Then they're torn between being insulting to a cheap farang and their instinct to kowtow to a wealthy man.

[N47HAN]

OK, I am now hearing it more said by Thais about me. I am known in Pattaya by Thais and they know I live here all seasons, so they are treating me much differently.

I am hearing the KN word: kee neeo

which translates as stingy....

Just tell anyone who says you're "kêe nĭeow" ( ขี้เหนียว ) that you are "pray-aad" ( ประหยัด ) which means thrifty, economical, not wasteful.

Thankyou for the post jetset,

I am now accepting the term pla yaad ( how to pronounce , not spelt ) ( helps me remember ) from my mrs , this kee nieow stuff ticks me off !

TY

[kmart]

They can call me what they like so long as my money stays in my pocket and not theirs.

It's easy for me to take the jibe while I'm taking care not to be scammed.

Anyway, no polite Thai would say this so I'm safe in assuming that anyone calling me kin niao is low life.

In a nutshell.

[Prakanong]

I think the distinction about being a expat living there and a two week millionaire on holiday is a very valid one.

I know when I went to live there and I started spending normally I was asked why I did not spend like before - most just realised I was the ame as the other guys drining in the bar then.

When I visit now my spending habits are a whole lot different to what they are in say more expensive Singapore. Apart from rent a 4 night visit next week probably be more than I spend the the rest of the month in Singapore on food and going out.

I choose when to spend though - if I want to sit quiet and have a few Nam Manao or just 4 or 5 beers then its fine. If I want to party and guzzle beer and buy a bottle of JD or Black for friends I will - I can not remember anyone for a long time asking me to do this as they would get told where to go and i would do the opposite as the contrarian I am.

Oh- and if a waitress or ex-friend ever called me kee niow - they get the put down they deserve.

[JSixpack]

The Thais are insulting you, but consider the source. You should regard it as a compliment, recognition that you've finally wised up and have taken control of your own budget.

The next step is to learn how to avoid Thais who might be tempted to say it in the first place.

[stumonster]

OK, I am now hearing it more said by Thais about me. I am known in Pattaya by Thais and they know I live here all seasons, so they are treating me much differently.

I am hearing the KN word: kee neeo

which translates as stingy....

Just tell anyone who says you're "kêe nĭeow" ( ขี้เหนียว ) that you are "pray-aad" ( ประหยัด ) which means thrifty, economical, not wasteful.

Thankyou for the post jetset,

I am now accepting the term pla yaad ( how to pronounce , not spelt ) ( helps me remember ) from my mrs , this kee nieow stuff ticks me off !

TY

be careful of getting the pronunciation correct bai(y) yaat is not what you want to say.

[villagefarang]

Believe me you still have a long way to go in your relationship with Thailand if you are still reading about it and looking for answers in books. You need to start forming your own opinions and trusting your own judgments.

As long as you choose to live in a place like Pataya your going to have to develop a thick skin to deal with it.

[t.s]

and why would you care either way? you are living in thailands cosmopolitain capital.

Edited November 1, 2007 by t.s

[britmaveric]

Laff at them and tell them thats why you have mak mak baht.

[samran]

"who" are "they"?? That is, who are you hanging out with that call you this?? Status, sex, and social class of person and job status of the people who are calling you this are all relevant - though you may hate me saying/asking it.

I'd love to know the company you keep. I'm not by any means Richy rich, but at the same time, I've never heard anyone call my by this, and I like to think I speak the language pretty well

I've had Thai friends say that I am like to 'brayat': ie a saver, but amongst most people - especially elders - it is a compliment rather than an insult.

[qwertz]

The Thais are insulting you, but consider the source. You should regard it as a compliment, recognition that you've finally wised up and have taken control of your own budget.

The next step is to learn how to avoid Thais who might be tempted to say it in the first place.

Most Thais, even the ignorant buggers, shrink when I reply with "mai suphap" because even they respect people who don't forget their manners.

[Briggsy]

May I ask who is calling you "khee neeow". If it is part of joshing with hookers/bargirls as they try to wheedle a lady drink out of you, then I would say it is normal and can be ignored.

If it's coming from employees, business associates, customers, your children's teachers, etc. then you should probably investigate why they have this negative view of you.

[Prakanong]

Laff at them and tell them thats why you have mak mak baht.

Exactly - but I do not want to sound too much like Palm

[rgs2001uk]

lets be honest, you are only likely to hear this sort of expression in a certain establishment that exists only to extract as much cash from you in as short a period of time as possible, i have never heard it used in hotels or up market bars, its usually used by the people whose vocabulary includes ting tong and hansum man.

take it as a compliment, that you are somewhat smarter than the normal tourist, and why anyone should worry about what some bar girl thinks of them is beyond me.

if if ever find myself in these situations i find a smile and a reply of kee khong is in order.

[qwertz]

May I ask who is calling you "khee neeow". If it is part of joshing with hookers/bargirls as they try to wheedle a lady drink out of you, then I would say it is normal and can be ignored.

If it's coming from employees, business associates, customers, your children's teachers, etc. then you should probably investigate why they have this negative view of you.

In my case, traders and their offspring and tuktuk drivers when I won't pay their ridiculous prices and bar employees when I refuse to buy them drinks.

The latter are becoming such a pest that I'm now having to choose my bars with ever increasing care.

Phuket is the absolute worst for this growing nuisance, which is why I won't be going back there - ever.

[TheEmperorOfTheNorth]

Honestly...

No need to be offended, after all it's only bargirls (wild guess).

You can turn this around into a good thing with some creative responses. Like:

"My wife only gave me 300 baht for the night out"

"Follow me to the bathroom and you can judge stickyness first hand."

etc.

[Jingthing]

Yeah, its from the assorted flotsam and jetsam that greet you when you walk the streets here. Not anyone close. It would have been easier to understand if I had done some really nasty cheap stuff like run around and eat at baloon parties without buying drinks, or being very unpleasant in price negotiations, rather than just be careful but fair with my spending.

I am not upset, but getting to this advanced level is an adjustment:

The Thais are insulting you, but consider the source. You should regard it as a compliment, recognition that you've finally wised up and have taken control of your own budget.

... but that is exactly what the author said and its nice to hear some people agree. Thanks for providing some great comebacks. This has helped me "process" this and perhaps might help others. And thank you for not flaming me too much, I was frankly expecting much worse. Maybe the thread should be closed before it degenerates, as these types of topics tend to do. Cheers!

To the person who said there is nothing to learn from books, thats what you think!

Edited November 1, 2007 by Jingthing

[condoDiver]

How about getting off a train as it stops in a station in the middle of the night just to buy something from a vendor and as you wave the money around the unknown Thai walks up beside you and calls you a "kamoi", right before he demands the 5 baht farang tax from the vendor.

I got back on the train still hungry and disappeared into the night. Mostly I get called kamoi more than kee neeo but it is more a function of your jangwats location than a personal thing.