Chiang Rai Member Search Doesn't Turn Up Much.

[villagefarang]

Gee, we are up to 13 now. Good work guys.

[ecopaul]

That village looks a bit too 'built up' for my likeing, maybe you should think about moving out into the sticks. ;-)

When the urban press of the village gets to be too much I retreat to that puddle of water (center right) or take off on my mountain bike and try to get lost.

Try living in Chiangrai in 1987 it was even more remote, the road to Measai from Chinagrai was a dirt road and the now massive Customs Post bridge at Measai to Tachilek was just a rickety wooden bridge.The road from Measai to Chaengsaen was almost impassable and dangerous!

Best Bar at that time was Baitong run by Ken from Australia (Aka Middlesborough) Good Hamburgers at Mr Macs and Napoli Pizzas.

Only 2 Brands of Ice Cream Ducky and a Local one, No 10 Wheel Trucks, No Frozen Food, Plane journeys from BKK were to Chianmgai and the a 30 Seater Shorts Plane journey (Very Scaret) but they never crashed!!

Great entertainment then in Chinagrai Country Roads dancing on the Tables 3 live bands, Beer was 19 baht for Singha and 21 for Nats Piss Kloster prior to Richard Clayd!!!!!the Piano Player from France arriving.Low Kaow was real!

[villagefarang]

That village looks a bit too 'built up' for my likeing, maybe you should think about moving out into the sticks. ;-)

When the urban press of the village gets to be too much I retreat to that puddle of water (center right) or take off on my mountain bike and try to get lost.

Try living in Chiangrai in 1987 it was even more remote, the road to Measai from Chinagrai was a dirt road and the now massive Customs Post bridge at Measai to Tachilek was just a rickety wooden bridge.The road from Measai to Chaengsaen was almost impassable and dangerous!

Best Bar at that time was Baitong run by Ken from Australia (Aka Middlesborough) Good Hamburgers at Mr Macs and Napoli Pizzas.

Only 2 Brands of Ice Cream Ducky and a Local one, No 10 Wheel Trucks, No Frozen Food, Plane journeys from BKK were to Chianmgai and the a 30 Seater Shorts Plane journey (Very Scaret) but they never crashed!!

Great entertainment then in Chinagrai Country Roads dancing on the Tables 3 live bands, Beer was 19 baht for Singha and 21 for Nats Piss Kloster prior to Richard Clayd!!!!!the Piano Player from France arriving.Low Kaow was real!

Nice little trip down memory lane but I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one for whom that is not new information. You would have to go back a lot further than that to impress any of these guys, me included.

[Crow Boy]

I can see this developing into a thread where "well I remember when the Shan invading army was marching across the plains heading down to do battle with ...................."

It is interesting however how much cities change.

CB

[ISPY]

Google Earth is not very up to date......watch Chiang Rai.... Even the white temple is situated on the wrong place...(minor detail... )

We live about 6 km to the south of Chiang Rai (near the old way to Chiang Mai) and don't even think that we notice something familiair in the neighbourhood with Google Earth.....

[Crow Boy]

That is correct - I think the images by US law have to be out of date by a couple of years. Still it is interesting to look at the image and realise the amount of change in the area since the image was taken. Whole road systems and subdivisions that only a couple of years ago weren't even peg lines on the ground.

CB

[lukamar]

Our place is in Phayao but I was amazed at the amount of detail that Google had there.

Overview of Phayao

Close Up of our MooBan

[klikster]

Google Earth is not very up to date......watch Chiang Rai.... Even the white temple is situated on the wrong place...(minor detail... )

We live about 6 km to the south of Chiang Rai (near the old way to Chiang Mai) and don't even think that we notice something familiair in the neighbourhood with Google Earth.....

I was (and still am) under the impression that Google Earth takes satellite photos of the earth .. in varying resolutions .. depending on location, etc. So I'm really curious as to how .. "Even the white temple is situated on the wrong place .." this is possible .. unless the temple has been torn down and rebuilt.

If you are talking about the hybrid maps, that's a different issue.

[tayto]

You can add a pointer or photo to GoogleEarth

Many people have done this with the White Temple and have been confused about it's exact location , thus it has appeared in many different places.

[sceadugenga]

Google Earth is not very up to date......watch Chiang Rai.... Even the white temple is situated on the wrong place...(minor detail... )

We live about 6 km to the south of Chiang Rai (near the old way to Chiang Mai) and don't even think that we notice something familiair in the neighbourhood with Google Earth.....

I was (and still am) under the impression that Google Earth takes satellite photos of the earth .. in varying resolutions .. depending on location, etc. So I'm really curious as to how .. "Even the white temple is situated on the wrong place .." this is possible .. unless the temple has been torn down and rebuilt.

If you are talking about the hybrid maps, that's a different issue.

I wondered that myself. It looks like it's in the usual spot on my screen.

[klikster]

You can add a pointer or photo to GoogleEarth

Many people have done this with the White Temple and have been confused about it's exact location , thus it has appeared in many different places.

Fo clarification, ".. thus it has appeared in many different places." Do you mean to say that it has "appeared to be" in many different places? Or, actually appeared in different places. I can understand a misplaced pointer, but that doesn't relocate the structure in question.

[svenivan]

You can add a pointer or photo to GoogleEarth

Many people have done this with the White Temple and have been confused about it's exact location , thus it has appeared in many different places.

yes, you are right Tayto.

But many have placed it right and call it "Wat Rong Khun".

[klikster]

You can add a pointer or photo to GoogleEarth

Many people have done this with the White Temple and have been confused about it's exact location , thus it has appeared in many different places.

yes, you are right Tayto.

But many have placed it right and call it "Wat Rong Khun".

Looks to be in the same place I saw it last October.

[villagefarang]

Since I started this thread so long ago, there has been a marked increase in the number of visible Chiang Rai residents in the member's list.

I have even overcome some of my reluctance toward meeting others. Ventured out onto the playing field, as it were, though only in the light of day.

From those I have met, it is clear than many still are not listing themselves as living in Chiang Rai.

So here I am breathing life back into this ancient topic, in an effort to get other residents of the Rai to stand up and be counted.

Edited December 25, 2009 by villagefarang

[svenivan]

So here I am breathing life back into this ancient topic, in an effort to get other residents of the Rai to stand up and be counted.

Counted for what ?

Are you from the taxdepartment?

Edited December 25, 2009 by svenivan

[villagefarang]

Well I suppose sarcasm is better than nothing at all. My motivations are harmless, I can assure you.

Interestingly most of the couples we have met, and actually like, seem to avoid TV like the proverbial plague. There are exceptions of course.

Finding pleasant people to have over to share a meal, conversation and perhaps some outdoor activity like a hike or mountain bike ride, is not as easy as one might like.

Not wanting to write-off the entire TV population of the Rai, I just thought I would reach out to the lurkers, who are fearful for whatever reason. Surely there must be other like-minded individuals who like to come out in the light of day.

[VocalNeal]

VF,

I gather you didn't or don't like Hashers what makes you think you will like TV'ers. You did mention sarcasm didn't you.

[villagefarang]

VF,

I gather you didn't or don't like Hashers what makes you think you will like TV'ers. You did mention sarcasm didn't you.

I take that as a sign that you have read a bit of my blog. Perhaps you noted the distinction between Hash and Hashers. I have met some very nice people through the Hash and for the most part we share the same love hate relationship with it. It is the institution that I find distasteful.

Under the guise of anonymity TV'ers can be quite off putting. I have yet to meet anyone personally, however, who was anything but amicable. Even some of the Dunkel crowd possess a certain undeniable charm.

One simply has to mine a fair amount of ore, to find the gems that surely exist. Perhaps it is this holiday season and cool weather that has gone to my head and turned me optimist.

[harrry]

I would, however, like to know how many of us are out there even though I can't yet envision actually meeting anyone. Just curious I guess.

I'm curious about this comment.

Probably a bit hard too as CRmembers seem a bit snobish. Went to a school Christmas party with my wife's neice and of the six or seven europeans there only got a faint nod from one. Didn't feel left out as the Thai parents there were quite welcoming.

Edited December 25, 2009 by harrry

[villagefarang]

Sadly this is often the case. Smiles are often not returned and overtures rebuffed. At the most recent Hash I spent more time speaking Thai on the trail, than English. But then I have always preferred the company of women over that of men.

It is not easy but we have found some couples where the wives like each other and us men enjoy each others company as well. I find men behave differently when not in a pack.

Two years later I have moved on from the highlighted comment but progress is slow.

I would, however, like to know how many of us are out there even though I can't yet envision actually meeting anyone. Just curious I guess.

I'm curious about this comment.

Probably a bit hard too as CRmembers seem a bit snobbish. Went to a school Christmas party with my wife's niece and of the six or seven europeans there only got a faint nod from one. Didn't feel left out as the Thai parents there were quite welcoming.

[chang35baht]

I would, however, like to know how many of us are out there even though I can't yet envision actually meeting anyone. Just curious I guess.

I'm curious about this comment.

Probably a bit hard too as CRmembers seem a bit snobish. Went to a school Christmas party with my wife's neice and of the six or seven europeans there only got a faint nod from one. Didn't feel left out as the Thai parents there were quite welcoming.

Not one of your most thought out comments Harrrrrrrrry. Maybe they were not TV members at all.

On many occassions in CR BigC I have nodded to farangs that I had never seen before and got no response.

Of course this would never be the case in Chiang Mai

[mcgriffith]

I found the Chiang Rai farang I met some of the most welcoming and friendly folks.

When CM becomes unbearable....will probably do what I've threatened (!?!) to do for years- move to Chiang Rai.

It has everything one needs, without the traffic, noise and distractions of CM. Altogether a marvelous place.

[harrry]

I would, however, like to know how many of us are out there even though I can't yet envision actually meeting anyone. Just curious I guess.

I'm curious about this comment.

Probably a bit hard too as CRmembers seem a bit snobish. Went to a school Christmas party with my wife's neice and of the six or seven europeans there only got a faint nod from one. Didn't feel left out as the Thai parents there were quite welcoming.

Not one of your most thought out comments Harrrrrrrrry. Maybe they were not TV members at all.

On many occassions in CR BigC I have nodded to farangs that I had never seen before and got no response.

Of course this would never be the case in Chiang Mai

On the contrary it was thought out. THey may or may not be members so this part is questionable however they were almost certainly CR residents as they all had a connection with children at an excellent private school which seems to produce extremely happy and rather competant children. I agree I would not have been surprised by the 500 metres stare in most places,even in BigC however in a function such as this most Australians would have at least acknowled the other parents. I was not expecting, nor did I probably want more however I posted as a response to a comment which seemed relevant. Well though out or not I stand by it although this will be a minor part of my decision on whether to move to CR or not.

[Kitsch22]

Since I started this thread so long ago, there has been a marked increase in the number of visible Chiang Rai residents in the member's list.

I have even overcome some of my reluctance toward meeting others. Ventured out onto the playing field, as it were, though only in the light of day.

From those I have met, it is clear than many still are not listing themselves as living in Chiang Rai.

So here I am breathing life back into this ancient topic, in an effort to get other residents of the Rai to stand up and be counted.

At the risk of duplicating the sense of what svenivan has already said, what is the purpose of your crusade? If I break my resolve (firm until now) to have no TV profile and instead begin to advertise my Jangwad, what is the benefit for me? And what is the benefit for you?

[villagefarang]

The paranoia that abounds is indeed astonishing. I'm not sure how many different ways I can answer the same question but I'll give it a try.

Regardless of where we come from, we are all now living in the Rai. Okay, that is a large spread out area and maybe we don't all have a lot in common. But, how are you supposed to know that, without meeting? What is wrong with civility, a polite smile and a kind word? Are we all so self-possessed, that no one could possibly be good enough for us?

Since we don't all live next-door to each other, it is not always easy to cross paths. For those of us who are happily married and don't spend our evenings warming a barstool, it is even more difficult to meet likeminded couples.

I guess I am questioning if there is any sense of community in the Rai. Are we all just isolated islands in a vast sea? Are we that embarrassed of this place we live? Acknowledging that one lives in the Rai hardly makes one lesser of a person. It is a starting point, however, for a sense of community.

Might I ask what the benefit is in being so insular? What is the benefit in not knowing what or who is out there? What is the benefit of being rude to each other?

Again, perhaps I am just letting the holiday season get to me.

[svenivan]

I think most of my friends have a social life involving their wifes. Maybe they are happy as it is?

I have many friends through the golf and we now and then meet together with wifes that don´t play golf.

I also, together with my wife, meet my friends in the Hash at least once a month.

Some people have other networks like a bookclub, movieclub etc.

So maybe it is only VF that is that insular?

[cognos]

I'll guess the farang got lost in the village

[villagefarang]

Apparently I am flogging a dead horse here but I will stubbornly persists a bit longer. I'm sure there are a few interesting people out there, who haven't met each other yet.

I don't particularly like clubs and organizations. I like individuals. Unless people are terribly boring, conversation flows without the need for organizational structure.

We know people but enjoy meeting new people. With one or two other couples there is more conversation and less boorish banter. A small group on the trail, be it on foot or bike, or sitting around a table, is more convivial.

We don't go out after dark, as a rule, since we live a fair way out of town. We don't center our lives around alcohol but don't mind if others have a drink or two.

It just seems a shame that our Thai friends often treat us better than we treat each other. I'm just trying to further the cause of being nice to our fellow man during this holiday season. Amazing how foreign that idea seems to some.

Edited December 27, 2009 by villagefarang

[Kitsch22]

The paranoia that abounds is indeed astonishing. I'm not sure how many different ways I can answer the same question but I'll give it a try.

Regardless of where we come from, we are all now living in the Rai. Okay, that is a large spread out area and maybe we don't all have a lot in common. But, how are you supposed to know that, without meeting? What is wrong with civility, a polite smile and a kind word? Are we all so self-possessed, that no one could possibly be good enough for us?

I am not sure why you choose to use the word "paranoia" to describe the fact that I value my privacy, but if it makes you feel better, then I do not object. You evidently perceive the existence of a "community" which I do not recognize. I am not even really clear what you mean when you use the expression "the Rai"; I presume that you must mean "Jangwad Chiang Rai" but it is possible that you really mean "Meuang Chiang Rai". Either way, the fact that I am a farang and the fact that I live in a particular geographical area does not instil within me any desire to make my personal details known to a bunch of other individuals who happen to tick the same two boxes. The fact that I am The Only Farang in the Village is one of the features that makes life there such a delight.

Since we don't all live next-door to each other, it is not always easy to cross paths. For those of us who are happily married and don't spend our evenings warming a barstool, it is even more difficult to meet likeminded couples.

I guess I am questioning if there is any sense of community in the Rai. Are we all just isolated islands in a vast sea? Are we that embarrassed of this place we live? Acknowledging that one lives in the Rai hardly makes one lesser of a person. It is a starting point, however, for a sense of community.

You give the impression that TV is a kind of members club. It is not. It is a commercial venture that makes money for its owners by attracting Internet users to click within certain web pages. Its use as a member is subject to a set of highly restrictive rules focused entirely upon the proprietor's pursuit of profit. I accept those rules in order that I can use TV as an information resource and as an occasional recreation. As I go along I tend to allocate three different labels to the other members whose contributions I read: "Like", "Do Not like" and "Neutral" although reclassifications occasionally occur as I read more and more. Without having performed any detailed analysis or statistical survey, I can tell you that the aggregate of "Do Not like" and "Neutral" significantly exceeds the total of "Like".

Might I ask what the benefit is in being so insular? What is the benefit in not knowing what or who is out there? What is the benefit of being rude to each other?

For me, the benefit of being insular manifests as a mild sense of well-being. In the highly unlikely event that I feel at any time a desire for face-to-face contact with another farang I can get in my car and drive to Rico's or somewhere similar. Or, I suppose, I could always PM another TV member from my "Like" list, although I would be instinctively reluctant to do so for fear of invading his privacy in a way that might be unwelcome. As to your suggestion that I or anyone else in this thread has been rude or uncivil to you, it would help if you could point out the offending words because I always try to avoid unnecessary rudeness and I do not think that I have been uncivil towards you in any way whatsoever.

Again, perhaps I am just letting the holiday season get to me.

Perhaps, but not necessarily. My take on the situation is simply that you are a person of a gregarious nature (bloggers necessarily have at least a mild streak of exhibitionism in their makeup) whereas I and many others are more naturally private and self-contained. You possibly like playing group games at parties; I do not. You might be the kind to organise the group singing of songs on coach trips; I hate that kind of thing. You may well get a buzz from joining clubs and societies; I avoid them like the plague. My families (in UK and in Thailand) and our village in the hills of northern Chiang Rai provide me with all the social "community" that I need.

[Limbo]

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During Chiang Rai BC (before cars) only a few foreigners were living here.

Birds of different plumage, sinners and saints, but more or less perforce united.

Minor details like sharing the same size of nose and speaking European languages (and/or derivatives 555)

condemned them to each other.

Now there are so many foreigners, that many foreigners start saying that there are too many foreigners ...

Isn't that interesting?

Differences in backgrounds and life-style existed before among foreigners, but they were sooner considered as an enrichment

for the little group of maybe ten people living permanently here and another ten migratory birds only during wintertime.

Now there are so many foreigners that the local expats don't constitute a community anymore, but a growing collection of permanently

changing koteries.

Originating as a foreign sub-group within Thai society, the exploding number of foreign newcomers to Chiang Rai,

turned it in a society in itself. A very inwards oriented society, wrestling with its own identity and stratification.

The northern Thai host society is not needed any longer as point of reference.

The Christmas turkey took over ... and will soon be accompagnied by the Hamburger.

"Where are we" is substituted by "where can I buy western food".

Originally I started this forum because I thought it could be instrumental for our integration, by for instance promoting participation

of foreigners in local activities, contribute to the local society by organizing things ourselves, etc. etc.

It has unintended got another, more narrow function now: to support a sub-culture ('our' own...).

The westerners in Chiang Rai are compartimentalizing themselves, not only on micro level within their own little society but also

on macro level within Thai society. Not exactly what I had in mind.

Limbo