Men From Nakhon Si Thammarat

[annetta]

Hi ladies, I have recently seen a comment by SBK on the men from Nakhon Si Tammarat and I was just curios to know why they are considered dangerous, together with the ones from Surat Thani.

As I know many people from NTS, both men and women, did I miss anything?

Thank you,

Annetta

[sbk]

Nakhon Si Thammarat and Surat Thani have the reputation (along with Petchburi, I believe), of having the highest number of hired killers as well as the highest murder rates in this country. Whether that is true or not, I have no idea, nor do I think there is any proof. But, it is a well-known belief among Thais, especially those from Bangkok and the North as well as North East. There is also the belief that Southerners are Jai Dum (black hearted) --again a regional prejudice based on the fact that Southerners tend to be more direct than other regions.

I might add, I do not believe this to be true. My husband is from Surat Thani as is his entire family and he is a kind hearted person generous to a fault. That said however, Southerners (men and women both, IMO) tend to take crap from no one and make that clear, so perhaps that is where the idea came from that they are all violent killers.

My husband has actually had people up North comment on violent Surat Thani is, or how they have had relatives murdered there (like he had something to do with it!) so I have witnessed this with myself.

[AmericanGuy1066]

....But, it is a well-known belief among Thais, especially those from Bangkok and the North as well as North East. There is also the belief that Southerners are Jai Dum (black hearted) --again a regional prejudice based on the fact that Southerners tend to be more direct than other regions.

I might add, I do not believe this to be true. ....

Just sounds like prejudice. I mean it's not as if it's like the UK, where the Irish are actually stupid, Scottish are actually stingy, and the Welsh actually do strange things to sheep.

[annetta]

I am happy to read that Sbk and Americanguy share my vision: good and bad are everywhere, too easy to judge people only because they are more direct than the average Thais..

Said that almost 80% of the my thai friends are from the South and I never had any problem with them, they are generous and nice, but I would not feel myself at ease discussing such a topic with them.....

Thank you again for sharing!

[girlx]

dunno, but the roots of the so-called "drug mafia" who have been shooting each other up for years on koh phangan are in surat thani- it is said that there are a lot of people from there hiding out on KPG. i have met some very sketchy guys from nakhorn as well... i think the reputation is somewhat deserved but it doesn't apply to everyone of course.

[Boo]

It seems that every thai man I ever met from NST was called Dum. I thought it was just me but on comparing with freinds of mine we have all met a large amount of thai men with this name. No relevance to the topic but just an odd observation I think we have all heard the rumours about killers from there (never really heard it about surat tho') but I never met one. Although I do know one guy on Samui who will do you in for 10k baht. needless to say we don't have close contact.

[annetta]

My knowledge of Thai language doesn't go beyond the basics but one of my friend's nickname is "sii dum", does it means black colour? By the way they are all very dark skinned and when I am in Phuket they keep me telling to refrain from the sun as they find my pale skin beautiful, while I perceive myself like a zombie...anyway I'm not a great fan of the tan.

[Boo]

yep thats what it means. Quite a common thai name but I just happen to know at least 7 thai men from NST with the name, which is a lot when you think about it

[cdnvic]

Could it be that the attention that murders in places like Phangan and Samui receive can skew this perception somewhat? After all, murders in tourist areas always seem to get more attention than if they were in a place like Phayao, or Tak.

[sbk]

Nope, the reaction my husband received about the murdered relatives was a conversation that took place about 10-12 years ago and the girl had never heard of Koh Phangan. In fact, he'd received that reaction in Bangkok and the NE as well on that very same trip, so no, its just a general perception that the majority of hired killers come from Nakhon, Surat, Petchaburi and Phattalung. Also, the general opinion is that these provinces have the highest murder rate as well. And I've heard this from Thais in Bangkok as long as I've lived here. "oh, aren't you scared to live there? They are so violent".

I've never been able to find any statistics that back any of this thinking up, but people's general perceptions and prejudices are rarely formed on anything like fact.

Also, the hypocrisy of it is quite funny. I believe that most of the people hiring the killers are non-Southern people but that problem doesn't seem to factor into most people's thinking.

Other provinces have similar problems, ask Thai people what they think of Chonburi and its mafia problem and well, you'd get the idea that Kamnan Poh was the biggest mafia kingpin in the country (he may very well be, I don't know, just citing what I have witnessed as general perceptions).

[alaina]

Other provinces have similar problems, ask Thai people what they think of Chonburi and its mafia problem and well, you'd get the idea that Kamnan Poh was the biggest mafia kingpin in the country (he may very well be, I don't know, just citing what I have witnessed as general perceptions).

Yup, I've heard the same about Patum Thanee.

[seonai]

Isn't Kamnan Poh in the slammer? He's got a fabulous house near Pattaya, my boss at the newspaper took me to the gates once !

Sorry, men from NST ...

[Acquiesce]

I would have thought that the murder rate in Yala, Pattani and Narathiwat would have all been higher.

[qualtrough]

Other provinces have similar problems, ask Thai people what they think of Chonburi and its mafia problem and well, you'd get the idea that Kamnan Poh was the biggest mafia kingpin in the country (he may very well be, I don't know, just citing what I have witnessed as general perceptions).

Yup, I've heard the same about Patum Thanee.

Pathum Thanee? I have been living here for 13 years and that's the first I have heard of that. Perhaps I need to get out more!

[ManInSurat]

Well, my two pennies worth.

Have lived in Surat Thani for 7 years and my wife is originally from NST but has lived in Surat for all her life.

The opinion of people from Surat Thani is that those from NST are very dangerous. Why? Well it takes a lot less to piss of a person from NST to the extent that they would kill you.

Also, NST is THE place to recruit a hitman, should you be in need of one, apparently. The going rate is approx 30k - 50k depending on who you know or who you talk to.

And for the benefit of this thread, can we please correct 'dum' to 'dam'. The corrent pronunciation of black in Thai is 'ดัม / dam' or 'สี ดัม / see dam'.

As far as Yala, Naratiwat and Songkhla and other southern border provinces are concerned, you are probably right, I would have thought the murder rates there a lot higher. Although, these murders are almost exclusively religiously motivated. Not a regional thing.

After living for a while, and having had quite a few run ins with locals and road rage (my biggest failing) instances, I am still alive.

I know a lot of people from Surat and NST and they are wonderful people.

I have seen a few people killed here, acidentally and execution style, stopped at traffic lights, but hey this is Thailand.

ManInSurat Out

[lannarebirth]

I know a few people from the south. One from NST another from Surat Thani. Botnh from successful families and really the nicest , kindest people you'd ever want to meet. They are connected both upwards and downwards to take care of whatever problems they encounter in their lives and business. They do not take shit off of anyone. if someone tries to cheat them, that is someone that "needs killing". Because you "can't talk to people like that". They don't even consider calling legal/police entities (unless they're family). Whatever problems arise, they take care of themselves, or through connections. They are extremely ethical, in their way, but you wouldn't want to cross them.

edit: I should add they are not involved in any illegal activities at all, save for whatever may happen to "bad people".

Edited November 6, 2007 by lannarebirth

[mssabai]

My friends from Nakhon also agree it is a pretty dangerous place to grow up and most have them have got out for that reason. There is - apparently - a very big gang culture amongst young males and I have been told that if you grow up within certain areas you have to choose your allegiances or get out. Nonetheless the people that I know from Nakhon are actually without exception lovely and like with all gang culture I am sure that it is majority gang on gang so is still therefore a safe place to live if you are not a local boy.

One of my friends is from Nakhon and she when she first got together with her farang husband she took great delight in reading out all the recent violence in the newspaper and commenting at the end "oh, would you look at that, Nakhon again". He was a shivering wreck by the time he got there for his first visit expecting the Corleones as in laws. Instead he got a retired school teacher and his very sweet wife. The joke was on him. As a postscript though, the pre wedding boy's drinks at the local club ended in a near shoot out due to too many unknown thai faces turning up in the area....

Second story I like, and I have no idea if this is true but it tickles me, is that if you drive anywhere else in Thailand with a nakhon numberplate, the road is your oyster cos everyone gets out of your way.

People from Nakhon seem to find their reputation amusing, but I have also had a lot of conversations with people about the sad stories of their young friends dying through gun crime. I also have a lot of friends from Surat and overall I haven't heard so many stories of a similar ilk but I still have certainly heard about higher levels of violence here than I am used to back home. Saying that I have heard similar, if not worse, stories from friends who come from all over thailand which I feel is just a result of the ridiculously lax gun laws and a massively macho culture.

[gisele]

I live in Nakhon Si Thammarat, been here for over 3 years, my husband is from Thasala. Maybe it is the circle of people I know but I don't know any one nicknamed "Dam", I also don't know any assassins, and I don't know of anybody's relatives or friends who have been murdered.

My husband did tell me a story of someone who was killed by his girlfriend a while ago .

I do hear about people stealing though but I doubt Nakhon is the only place with thieves.

[mssabai]

I don't know any one nicknamed "Dam", I also don't know any assassins, and I don't know of anybody's relatives or friends who have been murdered.

As far as I was aware Dam is a common nickname in the south simply because many people have darker skin. Nicknames are often mildly teasing and will frequantly draw from an aspect of one's looks or personality but calling someone 'black heart' is in no way playful.

[mssabai]

I know a few people from the south. One from NST another from Surat Thani. Botnh from successful families and really the nicest , kindest people you'd ever want to meet. They are connected both upwards and downwards to take care of whatever problems they encounter in their lives and business. They do not take shit off of anyone. if someone tries to cheat them, that is someone that "needs killing". Because you "can't talk to people like that". They don't even consider calling legal/police entities (unless they're family). Whatever problems arise, they take care of themselves, or through connections. They are extremely ethical, in their way, but you wouldn't want to cross them.

edit: I should add they are not involved in any illegal activities at all, save for whatever may happen to "bad people".

Lannarebirth, I am sorry but I cannot imagine that anyone can be described as 'nice' and 'kind' and 'ethical' who feels it neccessary to kill people that cross them, by the looks of it just for something that they say. There is a legal system in Thailand, it may be deeply flawed, but allowing people to pass their own judgements entitles anybody to do whatever they want and means that no one is safe and Thailand's legal system will never improve.

You seem to think it acceptable that 'bad people' can get their punishment outside of the legal system but who on earth decides who these 'bad people' are, and what gives them thatright? This 'glamourizing' of petty vendettas and gun violence really worries me as I think it only serves to fuel an already serious gun and violence problem. Would you find this acceptable in your own country I wonder?

[lannarebirth]

I know a few people from the south. One from NST another from Surat Thani. Botnh from successful families and really the nicest , kindest people you'd ever want to meet. They are connected both upwards and downwards to take care of whatever problems they encounter in their lives and business. They do not take shit off of anyone. if someone tries to cheat them, that is someone that "needs killing". Because you "can't talk to people like that". They don't even consider calling legal/police entities (unless they're family). Whatever problems arise, they take care of themselves, or through connections. They are extremely ethical, in their way, but you wouldn't want to cross them.

edit: I should add they are not involved in any illegal activities at all, save for whatever may happen to "bad people".

Lannarebirth, I am sorry but I cannot imagine that anyone can be described as 'nice' and 'kind' and 'ethical' who feels it neccessary to kill people that cross them, by the looks of it just for something that they say. There is a legal system in Thailand, it may be deeply flawed, but allowing people to pass their own judgements entitles anybody to do whatever they want and means that no one is safe and Thailand's legal system will never improve.

You seem to think it acceptable that 'bad people' can get their punishment outside of the legal system but who on earth decides who these 'bad people' are, and what gives them thatright? This 'glamourizing' of petty vendettas and gun violence really worries me as I think it only serves to fuel an already serious gun and violence problem. Would you find this acceptable in your own country I wonder?

I didn't say I believed it was acceptable. It freaks me out to be honest. Also, these people are not killers but recognize that (in their opinion) if courts will not provide justice, than it must be had in alternative ways. I think usually, it's "an offer they can't refuse".

Today they're down in Bangkok, in court. A client has failed to pay them 6 million baht for contracted work they have completed. Their lawyer recommended they sue, and that's what they have done. Another non payment matter they told me about, they said they contacted their lawyer and he suggested "try the judicial system first", and that's what they will do.

I've had many offers of assistance from these people and I turn down every one. It's a way of doing things that is too foreign to me and against my nature. They may know better however.

[mssabai]

Point taken. I do get a bee in my bonnet about this because I meet a lot of people on the islands who take great pleasure in regaling salacious details about the local 'mafia' (a massively misused term I feel as the mafia was used as a term for a group who employed a shadow government complete with laws, codes of conduct and debates. None of that is part of the arbitrary drugs related and drink fuelled violence we see down here on a daily basis). The idea of people having guns and using them is to some farang so ridiculously exciting and 'cool' that they never seem to question whether this form of local justice is actually beneficial to anybody and whether it is inherently right. I can see that that was not what you were saying though.

I too know many people who have used exteme forms of violence in the past to get a means to an end (often in self defence), and some of them are my friends, however I will always make it clear that I believe that taking another person's life is wrong in whatever context and for whatever reason. I am against the death penalty therefore I would never supprt execution without judge and jury either.

[lannarebirth]

Point taken. I do get a bee in my bonnet about this because I meet a lot of people on the islands who take great pleasure in regaling salacious details about the local 'mafia' (a massively misused term I feel as the mafia was used as a term for a group who employed a shadow government complete with laws, codes of conduct and debates. None of that is part of the arbitrary drugs related and drink fuelled violence we see down here on a daily basis). The idea of people having guns and using them is to some farang so ridiculously exciting and 'cool' that they never seem to question whether this form of local justice is actually beneficial to anybody and whether it is inherently right. I can see that that was not what you were saying though.

I too know many people who have used exteme forms of violence in the past to get a means to an end (often in self defence), and some of them are my friends, however I will always make it clear that I believe that taking another person's life is wrong in whatever context and for whatever reason. I am against the death penalty therefore I would never supprt execution without judge and jury either.

Anyway..... As a followup. got a call from my friends to pick them up at the airport in a little while. The first day of court the defend acceded to a repayment scheme that included an immediate 50% paydown of debt owed with the remainder to be payed over the course of the next nine months. They want to take me to dinner to celebrate. I have no idea if they there was any outside pressure on the defendant to settle, but that wouldn't surprise me. Still, I'm glad they could see the judicial sysyem working as it shoud.

I may have given a wrong impression that these peole are bloodthirsty or comfortable using violence to have their way. They are not. They are simply not comfortable being victims of people they consider to be unscrupulous.

[mssabai]

They want to take me to dinner to celebrate.

Just not to sit with your back to the door

[annetta]

I want to thak you all for sharing all your stories and points of view about this little weird topic and I did not immagine to have such a follow-up.....But now something comes to my mind: one day last august my friend Nopporn (from NST) came to pick me up to go for a drink and a chat. We were on his old motorbike and we drove in a very narrow soi and a group of thai guys looked at me maybe too long...he just give them a look but a kind of "if you look at her again I will kill you"...In that moment I did not give any importance to that strange look,also because we are only friends and nothing else but now your replies give a new shade to the story. Anyway I will visit NST for sure, at least to go to the famous Wat.

[Nicci]

Nakhon Si Thammarat and Surat Thani have the reputation (along with Petchburi, I believe), of having the highest number of hired killers as well as the highest murder rates in this country. Whether that is true or not, I have no idea, nor do I think there is any proof. But, it is a well-known belief among Thais, especially those from Bangkok and the North as well as North East. There is also the belief that Southerners are Jai Dum (black hearted) --again a regional prejudice based on the fact that Southerners tend to be more direct than other regions.

I might add, I do not believe this to be true. My husband is from Surat Thani as is his entire family and he is a kind hearted person generous to a fault. That said however, Southerners (men and women both, IMO) tend to take crap from no one and make that clear, so perhaps that is where the idea came from that they are all violent killers.

My husband has actually had people up North comment on violent Surat Thani is, or how they have had relatives murdered there (like he had something to do with it!) so I have witnessed this with myself.

My Bf is from NST and he told me many people think this himself.

It might have something to do with the fact that it's such a overcrowded piece of Thailand, I mean the more people the more there maybe violent although I do not believe that people from south are much more violent than anywhere else in Thailand!

It's also a mix up about the stories of the commotion about the bomb attacks that unfortunatly take place in the south on the boarder with malaysia, I think.

My Bf and his family are the most caring and warm people i' ve come across, this goes for a lot of people i met down south!

[kat]

I have to agree. Southerners were my favorite people in Thailand for all the reasons you guys listed.

[mssabai]

Big up the southerners. I love the fact that jai yen means absolutely nothing down here. They trot the phrase out on a daily basis, but do any southerners you know actually adhere to it? hel_l no.

If Thailand was Europe then the south would be Italy without a doubt....loving, hating, talking, eating - all done as passionately as possible.

[dbm]

good one mssabai. Agree 100%. I've lived and travelled to many places in Europe and I loved Italy for precisely that reason. Everything--loving,partying,eating,swearing,murdering--done with gusto. You can keep your polite central and northern Thailand...gimme those lusty southern Thais anyday! With killer seafoood to boot!

[jomo225]

been here in Nakhon si thammarat but i guess peole here are very nice,though few crimes here and there which i consider to be normal everywhere in the world.Been to different countries including west and i guess Thailand is a safe destination.Nakhon is a nice hood.

zack