"you Are Overstay"

[Pringle]

Had a run in with immigration on the way out of Suvanabumi Airport last month: I had decided to nip over the border from Cambodia to see the girlfriend, keep my language skills practiced and have a 5 day break back in civilization.

The trip went well, I enjoyed Sukhothai and Chaing Mai, enjoyed the trip right up to the point of checking back out in Immigration: The duty officer looked at my (many) entry stamps and decided I was overstayed. This was despite the clear evidence I had flown into the country 5 days earlier. My current total day count (the 90 days in 180 rule) is less than 60 - this new trip takes it to 64, well within the spirit and legal meaning of the new regs.

So I get taken over to a desk behind immigration and two officials started going through my 3 year collection of Thai, Myanmar and Cambodia stamps, b-visas and other entries. There are a lot and despite this being a newish passport which doesn't show the 8 year history of regular visits, they couldn't figure it out.

Fortunately, I had prepared a spreadsheet graphically showing all my last 6 months comings and goings, clearly demonstrating I was outside Thailand for most of the time. The official looked impressed with my paperwork, even commenting on how easy it was to understand. He looked for the last named stamp, found it and confirmed it was right. He thanked me and I was free to go.

My beef with immigration is, if they are going to operate a dumb quota system, perhaps they might want to install a computerized system at Bangkok International since overworked desk stooges with 40-50 waiting do not have the time, training or ability to correctly figure the new regs out: Even a simple bar-code stuck in the passport would speed the process up and reduce the errors. if I can knock up an easy to understand timeline, why the hel_l can't immigration do the same - it's not rocket science!.

I do not know if others have had this problem coming in or leaving but this experience shows it's worth having your own clear paper record showing multiple visits, especially if you have many Thai entry stamps or are close to limit. I had prepared it for an incoming trip, expecting not to be given a VOA. If you are arriving tired from the US or Europe, you will not have any mental agility to argue the dates - a piece of pre-prepared paperwork is a godsend: Immigration lost the argument immediately when they were asked to show how I was overlimit.

The result of this fiasco was I left Thailand in a shitty <deleted> attitude which lasted for days - I didn't like their attitude, the lack of apology for getting it wrong (and demanding 2000B) or being accused of overstaying, especially when I was so well inside of their stupid limits. It confirmed the feeling Falangs are no longer welcome in Thailand. I still do not know if I want to retire in Thailand as previously planned - this didn't help at all. At the end of the day, I love Thailand, its people and weather. I have invested huge amounts of time learning the language, traveling around the country and legally working in the kingdom - it has so much of value to offer: Stupid bureaucracy isn't something they should be proud of and I which they would get it right.

My life motto has been "hope for the best, prepare for the worse". This time, it paid off.

Hope it helps someone else.

Pringle.

[Maestro]

...The trip went well, I enjoyed Sukhothai and Chaing Mai, enjoyed the trip right up to the point of checking back out in Immigration: The duty officer looked at my (many) entry stamps and decided I was overstayed. This was despite the clear evidence I had flown into the country 5 days earlier. My current total day count (the 90 days in 180 rule) is less than 60 - this new trip takes it to 64, well within the spirit and legal meaning of the new regs.

Your experience is highly unusual and irregular, ie outside of the scope of applicable laws and regulations.

The evaluation of maximum 90 days visa-exempt stay within 6 months can take place only at the time of entry. Once you are given an entry stamp in your passport permitting you to stay for 30 days, at the time of your departure from Thailand the immigration officer has no business accusing you of overstay unless your departure date is later than the “admitted until” date on your latest entry stamp.

--

Maestro

[Travel2003]

Had a run in with immigration on the way out of Suvanabumi Airport last month: I had decided to nip over the border from Cambodia to see the girlfriend, keep my language skills practiced and have a 5 day break back in civilization.

The trip went well, I enjoyed Sukhothai and Chaing Mai, enjoyed the trip right up to the point of checking back out in Immigration: The duty officer looked at my (many) entry stamps and decided I was overstayed. This was despite the clear evidence I had flown into the country 5 days earlier. My current total day count (the 90 days in 180 rule) is less than 60 - this new trip takes it to 64, well within the spirit and legal meaning of the new regs.

So I get taken over to a desk behind immigration and two officials started going through my 3 year collection of Thai, Myanmar and Cambodia stamps, b-visas and other entries. There are a lot and despite this being a newish passport which doesn't show the 8 year history of regular visits, they couldn't figure it out.

Fortunately, I had prepared a spreadsheet graphically showing all my last 6 months comings and goings, clearly demonstrating I was outside Thailand for most of the time. The official looked impressed with my paperwork, even commenting on how easy it was to understand. He looked for the last named stamp, found it and confirmed it was right. He thanked me and I was free to go.

My beef with immigration is, if they are going to operate a dumb quota system, perhaps they might want to install a computerized system at Bangkok International since overworked desk stooges with 40-50 waiting do not have the time, training or ability to correctly figure the new regs out: Even a simple bar-code stuck in the passport would speed the process up and reduce the errors. if I can knock up an easy to understand timeline, why the hel_l can't immigration do the same - it's not rocket science!.

I do not know if others have had this problem coming in or leaving but this experience shows it's worth having your own clear paper record showing multiple visits, especially if you have many Thai entry stamps or are close to limit. I had prepared it for an incoming trip, expecting not to be given a VOA. If you are arriving tired from the US or Europe, you will not have any mental agility to argue the dates - a piece of pre-prepared paperwork is a godsend: Immigration lost the argument immediately when they were asked to show how I was overlimit.

The result of this fiasco was I left Thailand in a shitty <deleted> attitude which lasted for days - I didn't like their attitude, the lack of apology for getting it wrong (and demanding 2000B) or being accused of overstaying, especially when I was so well inside of their stupid limits. It confirmed the feeling Falangs are no longer welcome in Thailand. I still do not know if I want to retire in Thailand as previously planned - this didn't help at all. At the end of the day, I love Thailand, its people and weather. I have invested huge amounts of time learning the language, traveling around the country and legally working in the kingdom - it has so much of value to offer: Stupid bureaucracy isn't something they should be proud of and I which they would get it right.

My life motto has been "hope for the best, prepare for the worse". This time, it paid off.

Hope it helps someone else.

Pringle.

You gave me a flashback here.

Was out of Thailand for a week (last) month.

Came back and was stopped in Immigration.

Waited 1,5 hours until it was my turn.

I was told I had stayed too much in the country, and she started to lecture me the rule from October 2006.

I was then escorted to another desk.

Never had so many people staring at me before.

Managed to keep cool, and decided to politely try to teach the Officer how to count.

Yep, after a lot of counting on her fingers she came to the conclusion that I indeed had not been too many days within the "windows", and she stamped the passport and gave it back.

Of course, in best (any countries) Immigration tradition, it was not a sorry, welcome, or any sort of comments when I got my passport back.

First thing I did when I came home was to make a spread sheet, showing the windows, my entry/leaving stamps, with stayed days per month, and total days per "window".

So Im really happy to see a spread sheet has already been tried.

Will from now on have it "paper clipped" in my passport.

[kankaroo]

You mean they don't have a computerized system at the new airport ???

Over a year ago I was hauled into an office at immigration - Poipet. I was traveling into Cambodia and had a new passport. They simply took the pasport while I sat in their air con office and returned 20 mins later with a computerized printout of every entrance/exit I had ever made into Thailand.

I was told I could go (after paying 20 baht to the old ass scary looking Thai general dude !) and that was it.

I know the 20 baht thing was BS but that 20 mins sitting in their office waiting to find out what was happening was VERY LONG indeed!

20 baht to the general (for their mistake) I think was to cover for a loss of face on their part that they had their wires crossed.

Basically all I am saying is that their computer at the Poipet border could track back all my activities even to my PREVIOUS PASSPORT.

Weird.

edit : BTW this is not the main office at Poipet where you get stamped out of Thailand, they couldn't do it there. They took me across the "street" into an office reserved only for Thai immigration staff. Even then they went further into the building while I was left in the office to wait.

Edited November 5, 2007 by kankaroo

[george]

Use our visa calculator!

http://www.thaivisa.com/external/visa-calculator.html

[Pringle]

...The trip went well, I enjoyed Sukhothai and Chaing Mai, enjoyed the trip right up to the point of checking back out in Immigration: The duty officer looked at my (many) entry stamps and decided I was overstayed. This was despite the clear evidence I had flown into the country 5 days earlier. My current total day count (the 90 days in 180 rule) is less than 60 - this new trip takes it to 64, well within the spirit and legal meaning of the new regs.

Your experience is highly unusual and irregular, ie outside of the scope of applicable laws and regulations.

--

Maestro

I agree - going in I expected the problem and was very relieved when the guy correctly hand-counted the days and passsed the 15 day VOA..

You think this is worth repeating in BKK Post letter? Would it change anything?

It really shouldn't happen - the last entry stamp was clear, it matched my air ticket he was holding ... I even put it in the page where the stamp was. My very long-time girlfriend (who still lives in Thailand) was really fed up with the ineptness of it all - and she is a government officer :-).

A perplexed Pringle

[permanent_disorder]

Basically all I am saying is that their computer at the Poipet border could track back all my activities even to my PREVIOUS PASSPORT.

Weird.

to print out is one thing, but to count another. nueng, sorng, sarm, sii, haa, maak maak...

but my question is, your new passport - you get it at the embassy in bangkok and also make some contact to the immigration to transfer your visa or just entry stamp and the departure card from the old passport to the new passport and all these things you have to do.

or did you get your new passport in your home country or at least somewhere out of thailand and return with a fresh new passport?

[Scott]

I have a friend who flies in and out all the time. He often comes just for a weekend. He got stopped at the airport and the officer tried to figure out his entry/exit days. What a mess. He said it was very embarassing because there was a long line waiting.

They have done that to him twice and now they don't count them--I don't know if it's on computer or not, but he just goes through. Of course he doesn't exceed the limit.

[bkk_mike]

Basically all I am saying is that their computer at the Poipet border could track back all my activities even to my PREVIOUS PASSPORT.

Weird.

to print out is one thing, but to count another. nueng, sorng, sarm, sii, haa, maak maak...

but my question is, your new passport - you get it at the embassy in bangkok and also make some contact to the immigration to transfer your visa or just entry stamp and the departure card from the old passport to the new passport and all these things you have to do.

or did you get your new passport in your home country or at least somewhere out of thailand and return with a fresh new passport?

All that's happened is he had a machine readable passport.

Barring a change of name (i.e. getting married), or it being issued from another country, it will have the same electronic id as any other passport(s) you have/had.

This also would mean that people with two UK passports for instance, couldn't simply swap after 90 days. (2 concurrent passports can be issued if the company you work for requests the second one. - Quite common for oil workers needing exotic visas to be issued in the second passport while travelling on the first one).

[permanent_disorder]

All that's happened is he had a machine readable passport.

Barring a change of name (i.e. getting married), or it being issued from another country, it will have the same electronic id as any other passport(s) you have/had.

This also would mean that people with two UK passports for instance, couldn't simply swap after 90 days. (2 concurrent passports can be issued if the company you work for requests the second one. - Quite common for oil workers needing exotic visas to be issued in the second passport while travelling on the first one).

ahh, okay.

a friend told me once, that after he got a new passport at bangkok embassy, at one of his later out and inside country trips the immigration also ask him a few question regarding his old passport and maybe had also a picture of the old passport on computer.

for a 2nd. passport, i think you can also get one if you explain the authority that you will travel to different countries, which maybe don't like each other. so you don't have to worry if you get a israeli stamp in one and the iranian stamp in the other, or the both chinas, taiwan and mainland, cyprus and turkey.