Inhumane Treatment Of Dogs

[meemiathai]

This one is really good. It says a thousand words.

And yes it does make me like animals much much more than humans. I hope I can change my mind before I leave the world. But.....

[meemiathai]

Humans are doing a great job. It such a beautiful world, isn't it? As long as we humans live!

It won't change! I know! I am 100% sure it is never going to change. With my understanding of human behavior.

Enjoy life!

[TAWP]

I'm fine with people eating dogs that aren't mine. Heck, if they wanna chew down on some of the menge-dogs out in he street, maybe we can kill two bids with one stone...

The problem is not taking care that the slaughter doesn't add more suffering than needed. As one quoted above, 'the more suffering, the better the taste', is of course in most cases (all?) regarding meat a lie since the animal will release hormons into the bloodstream and it's muscles with be more blood filled, generally giving a less desired taste. On the same note I strongly oppose ritual slaughter as done by Muslims and Jews, since it's based on old misunderstandings on how the animal body works and perpetuated by tradition and not logic.

[CarlBkk]

Happily, in more western-centric (more civilised, more humane?) countries slaughtering techniques are better, the killing of an animal by yourself is outlawed and the scoffing of dogs/cats and exotic animals illegal.

Really?

Have a look at

if you are strong enough to face reality.

There are a lot more on youtube you can look at them yourself.

I would say the least suffering cows were those that were slaugtered at a thai village by villagers themselves. They endure the least pain before they are killed. And they actually live a much happier life than their western counterparts.

So, Carl, you will have to be more realistic if you really care about animals. I can never see the logic of condoning eating cows but not dogs.

I'm happy to be educated. I always thought there was a very controlled procedure in most Western countries where slaughterhouse practices were monitored. I only saw it once on TV in UK where the animal was stunned unconscious by an electric shock, then bolted in the head. All was done mechanically. If that is not always the case then I stand corrected, but if it is, surely it's better than being stabbed in the neck a few times by the owner and left looking at the blood draining away for a good 20 minutes.

[Travel2003]

Would loooove to have a discussion about Whailing with some of your Americans.

But thats for another day (and another Forum).

Many say that the dogs are so smart.

Smart, maybe, but compare to what? To fish?

Here is a theory I once heard.

If all humans on this planet were vegetarians.

How many are we now? 6-7 Billion?

Would we not then compete with all the animals for the food?

Im pretty sure who would win that competition.

And what would happen to the losing part (the animals).

As far as I can see, no one here had ever asked anyone here to become vegetarian. So you can feel free to look for another thread if you want to discuss.

We are talking about creating the least pain we can when we eat. If we want to believe that we are smarter than lions and hyhennas, than don't use a way of eating sometimes even worse than they use.

My take is if people can't understand their(animals) sufferings just because they are not capable of telling us, those people have a very low IQ.

I believe the issue of being a vegetarian has been brought up in this thread.

I'm pretty sure that most people believe we human beings indeed are smarter then the animals.

Being cruel/evil is not the same as having a low IQ

Anyhow, reading some of your posts here, I hope you get your wish and become a dog in your next life, since you seem to have such low oppinion of human beings in general.

But until that happens, I wish you a long a happy life, coexisting with us other humans.

[meemiathai]

Happily, in more western-centric (more civilised, more humane?) countries slaughtering techniques are better, the killing of an animal by yourself is outlawed and the scoffing of dogs/cats and exotic animals illegal.

Really?

Have a look at

if you are strong enough to face reality.

There are a lot more on youtube you can look at them yourself.

I would say the least suffering cows were those that were slaugtered at a thai village by villagers themselves. They endure the least pain before they are killed. And they actually live a much happier life than their western counterparts.

So, Carl, you will have to be more realistic if you really care about animals. I can never see the logic of condoning eating cows but not dogs.

I'm happy to be educated. I always thought there was a very controlled procedure in most Western countries where slaughterhouse practices were monitored. I only saw it once on TV in UK where the animal was stunned unconscious by an electric shock, then bolted in the head. All was done mechanically. If that is not always the case then I stand corrected, but if it is, surely it's better than being stabbed in the neck a few times by the owner and left looking at the blood draining away for a good 20 minutes.

You are a nice man anyway. Very nice. Sawadee khrap, Sir.

[Larryst]

I've seen the truck around my place all the time. I think there called "Meals On Wheels".

Edited November 15, 2007 by Larryst

[jayjayjayjay]

Happily, in more western-centric (more civilised, more humane?) countries slaughtering techniques are better, the killing of an animal by yourself is outlawed and the scoffing of dogs/cats and exotic animals illegal.

Really?

Have a look at

if you are strong enough to face reality.

There are a lot more on youtube you can look at them yourself.

I would say the least suffering cows were those that were slaugtered at a thai village by villagers themselves. They endure the least pain before they are killed. And they actually live a much happier life than their western counterparts.

So, Carl, you will have to be more realistic if you really care about animals. I can never see the logic of condoning eating cows but not dogs.

Meemaithai, this is where I believe you are inexperienced. Work on a farm for a couple of years. Grow barley wheat and beans, find out what goes into it. Find out the green house contributing factors for each kilogram of grain. Calculate the petrochemicals used in processing this and getting it to your doorstep....

After you have finished this analysis, try working with sheep and cattle for a month. I recommend daily checks for blowflies, take a dog with you, maybe a border collie like my avatar. Bring sheep in for drenching and vaccination. Have them do an IQ test while they are there...... What you will find out is there is a point at were you scatch you head!!!! Numbness sets over you really trying to understand why sheep are so "stupid". Now I mean this nicely. Sheep are wonderful creatures, they produce one of the most amazing fibres on this earth, but if their brains were dynamite,they would not have enough to blow their noses. That is the simple reality. At this point you begin to understand that there is some sort of pecking order in the universe.

Your understanding comes from your own experience where you can not rationalise why to kill a cow and not a dog for food. Well, I have no problem. When I have a dog with me, I know and understand the relationship I can build with this animal. In all my years on a farm, I can tell you, it is impossible to build a relationship with a sheep or a cow to the point of friendship, this is not the case with a dog, there is no feedback or response from a cow or sheep with continued communication, it just does not happen ......... I do not have the same experience with sea creatures, but I would understand this is why I happily eat fish but would not eat dolphin...........

This is why I have no problem eating cow,pig,chicken or sheep meat, but do not serve me dog.

Edited November 15, 2007 by jayjayjayjay

[TheEmperorOfTheNorth]

Pigs are smart. Birds are smart. Squid are smart. Horses are smart. I don't think it's much of an issue.

Interestingly, loads of Thais don't eat cows because of their beliefs. I think that's fine. Loads of people (incl. Thais) don't eat dogs, I think that's fine, too.

Not according to laws. If you think you're within your rights to scoff an endangered species "just because you can" tell me about it. If you'd like to eat dog or bush meat in England, tell me about it too. Happily, in more western-centric (more civilised, more humane?) countries slaughtering techniques are better, the killing of an animal by yourself is outlawed and the scoffing of dogs/cats and exotic animals illegal.

Excellent. It's a 200 baht taxi to Suvarnabhumi, right side of the terminal. Bye.

I like the argument "of course" dogs should be eaten. Do you have pets, or is your mindset so typically "banok" that you'll eat anything that moves?

I KNEW it!! Bangkok people love to put down the rural/poor masses! Go decompose in traffic, buddy.

Keep warm this winter by eating food that's trapped and beaten to death with a stick "innit".

Normally I wouldn't, but I will now, because I know it bothers you.

Edited November 15, 2007 by TheEmperorOfTheNorth

[plasticpig]

The only animal in Thailand that’s not beaten or kicked

Is an Elephant,, sorry they do that as well.

Not good

[sweetchariot]

OMFG, I can't believe this thread is still running.

The answer is simple - there are too many dogs on this planet, especially in LOS, so just kill them all, and if someone wants to eat them rather than bury them then crack on. It will do us all a favour (thats how you spell in English for any Yanks who are going to pull me up), and make the world a much less smelly and noisy place.

[TheEmperorOfTheNorth]

Hear hear!!!

Finally, a voice of reason. I was beginning to think all Farlangs were collectively out to lunch on this. I mean, the Western-based Farlangs are, but the ones who settled here usually get a less Western-centric look on things. They used to anyway.

Edited November 15, 2007 by TheEmperorOfTheNorth

[WaiWai]

The OP was about the inhumane treatment of the dogs before killing .

[plasticpig]

You must have a few soi dogs down your street then.

keep you awake do they

[sweetchariot]

You must have a few soi dogs down your street then.

keep you awake do they

No not really. They're normally down the other end of the road trying to eat motorbike taxis!

[wilko]

Happily, in more western-centric (more civilised, more humane?) countries slaughtering techniques are better, the killing of an animal by yourself is outlawed and the scoffing of dogs/cats and exotic animals illegal.

Really?

Have a look at

if you are strong enough to face reality.

There are a lot more on youtube you can look at them yourself.

I would say the least suffering cows were those that were slaugtered at a thai village by villagers themselves. They endure the least pain before they are killed. And they actually live a much happier life than their western counterparts.

So, Carl, you will have to be more realistic if you really care about animals. I can never see the logic of condoning eating cows but not dogs.

Perhaps we should eat you?

Any reason why not?

just what I wanna put in me mout' innit?

[wilko]

OMFG, I can't believe this thread is still running.

The answer is simple - there are too many dogs on this planet, especially in LOS, so just kill them all, and if someone wants to eat them rather than bury them then crack on. It will do us all a favour (thats how you spell in English for any Yanks who are going to pull me up), and make the world a much less smelly and noisy place.

there is a long post on the practicallity of killing all the (Soi?) dogs in Thailand - not very prctical in the end....

[DP25]

Your understanding comes from your own experience where you can not rationalise why to kill a cow and not a dog for food. Well, I have no problem. When I have a dog with me, I know and understand the relationship I can build with this animal. In all my years on a farm, I can tell you, it is impossible to build a relationship with a sheep or a cow to the point of friendship, this is not the case with a dog, there is no feedback or response from a cow or sheep with continued communication, it just does not happen ......... I do not have the same experience with sea creatures, but I would understand this is why I happily eat fish but would not eat dolphin...........

This is why I have no problem eating cow,pig,chicken or sheep meat, but do not serve me dog.

Pigs have all the qualities you describe dogs as having. They are highly intelligent and are capable of building a relationship with humans. If it's wrong to eat dogs and dolphins because of their intelligence, it's wrong to eat pigs as well. If only they weren't so tasty.

[meemiathai]

Happily, in more western-centric (more civilised, more humane?) countries slaughtering techniques are better, the killing of an animal by yourself is outlawed and the scoffing of dogs/cats and exotic animals illegal.

Really?

Have a look at

if you are strong enough to face reality.

There are a lot more on youtube you can look at them yourself.

I would say the least suffering cows were those that were slaugtered at a thai village by villagers themselves. They endure the least pain before they are killed. And they actually live a much happier life than their western counterparts.

So, Carl, you will have to be more realistic if you really care about animals. I can never see the logic of condoning eating cows but not dogs.

Meemaithai, this is where I believe you are inexperienced. Work on a farm for a couple of years. Grow barley wheat and beans, find out what goes into it. Find out the green house contributing factors for each kilogram of grain. Calculate the petrochemicals used in processing this and getting it to your doorstep....

After you have finished this analysis, try working with sheep and cattle for a month. I recommend daily checks for blowflies, take a dog with you, maybe a border collie like my avatar. Bring sheep in for drenching and vaccination. Have them do an IQ test while they are there...... What you will find out is there is a point at were you scatch you head!!!! Numbness sets over you really trying to understand why sheep are so "stupid". Now I mean this nicely. Sheep are wonderful creatures, they produce one of the most amazing fibres on this earth, but if their brains were dynamite,they would not have enough to blow their noses. That is the simple reality. At this point you begin to understand that there is some sort of pecking order in the universe.

Your understanding comes from your own experience where you can not rationalise why to kill a cow and not a dog for food. Well, I have no problem. When I have a dog with me, I know and understand the relationship I can build with this animal. In all my years on a farm, I can tell you, it is impossible to build a relationship with a sheep or a cow to the point of friendship, this is not the case with a dog, there is no feedback or response from a cow or sheep with continued communication, it just does not happen ......... I do not have the same experience with sea creatures, but I would understand this is why I happily eat fish but would not eat dolphin...........

This is why I have no problem eating cow,pig,chicken or sheep meat, but do not serve me dog.

There are a lot of members here on TV that I believe I can never build a relationship with. But I believe though that they understands it when I hold a knife and try to put it into their throat it is going to hurt.

I do understand what you mean jay.

You are certainly not wrong saying that I was inexperienced. But as a city boy, I think I am really not that bad. I pay a lot of attention observing animal behaviour. One of my favourite passtimes when I was 5 or 6 was straying in the streets befriending stray dogs.

[meemiathai]

Happily, in more western-centric (more civilised, more humane?) countries slaughtering techniques are better, the killing of an animal by yourself is outlawed and the scoffing of dogs/cats and exotic animals illegal.

Really?

Have a look at

if you are strong enough to face reality.

There are a lot more on youtube you can look at them yourself.

I would say the least suffering cows were those that were slaugtered at a thai village by villagers themselves. They endure the least pain before they are killed. And they actually live a much happier life than their western counterparts.

So, Carl, you will have to be more realistic if you really care about animals. I can never see the logic of condoning eating cows but not dogs.

Perhaps we should eat you?

Any reason why not?

just what I wanna put in me mout' innit?

You can if you want to.

[jayjayjayjay]

Your understanding comes from your own experience where you can not rationalise why to kill a cow and not a dog for food. Well, I have no problem. When I have a dog with me, I know and understand the relationship I can build with this animal. In all my years on a farm, I can tell you, it is impossible to build a relationship with a sheep or a cow to the point of friendship, this is not the case with a dog, there is no feedback or response from a cow or sheep with continued communication, it just does not happen ......... I do not have the same experience with sea creatures, but I would understand this is why I happily eat fish but would not eat dolphin...........

This is why I have no problem eating cow,pig,chicken or sheep meat, but do not serve me dog.

Pigs have all the qualities you describe dogs as having. They are highly intelligent and are capable of building a relationship with humans. If it's wrong to eat dogs and dolphins because of their intelligence, it's wrong to eat pigs as well. If only they weren't so tasty.

Exactly my point DP25, if you feel within your own experience that you can develop a relationship with a pig in the same context I have described, then I know "you" have the right to not want to eat pig ........ I for one, have handled pigs on many occasions and have not experience the qualities you mentioned. That's my point. For me, pigs squeel like hel_l when you take food to them, then they become bacon on a plate which I really really enjoy. That's my stand. I don't expect you to feel the same way if your own viewpoint is different.

[meemiathai]

Your understanding comes from your own experience where you can not rationalise why to kill a cow and not a dog for food. Well, I have no problem. When I have a dog with me, I know and understand the relationship I can build with this animal. In all my years on a farm, I can tell you, it is impossible to build a relationship with a sheep or a cow to the point of friendship, this is not the case with a dog, there is no feedback or response from a cow or sheep with continued communication, it just does not happen ......... I do not have the same experience with sea creatures, but I would understand this is why I happily eat fish but would not eat dolphin...........

This is why I have no problem eating cow,pig,chicken or sheep meat, but do not serve me dog.

Pigs have all the qualities you describe dogs as having. They are highly intelligent and are capable of building a relationship with humans. If it's wrong to eat dogs and dolphins because of their intelligence, it's wrong to eat pigs as well. If only they weren't so tasty.

Exactly my point DP25, if you feel within your own experience that you can develop a relationship with a pig in the same context I have described, then I know "you" have the right to not want to eat pig ........ I for one, have handled pigs on many occasions and have not experience the qualities you mentioned. That's my point. For me, pigs squeel like hel_l when you take food to them, then they become bacon on a plate which I really really enjoy. That's my stand. I don't expect you to feel the same way if your own viewpoint is different.

Now that is very dangerous. If I see you I might have to act like I am quite intelligent and at least make you feel you can build a relationship with me. Do you really eat everything that is stupid?

[distortedlink]

I have also seen some terrible sights here in Chiang Mai with the awful treatment of dogs and cats.

On the other end of the spectrum, my dogs are spoilt something rotten.

Maybe helps balance out the way of life for dogs in Thailand.

[distortedlink]

I just (20 minutes ago) saw a pickup with the rear portion caged. Three beautiful ma baan dogs were in the cage. They will be starved and then killed for their meat. The starvation lasts for everal days. Death, I believe, is by hammer. The fresh-dog-meat market is located in a neighbouring province. The price per kilogram for the finished product is around 120 baht per kilogram.

Note that a ma baan is very similar to a husky. It is a smart animal. The people who sell these poor beasts, for around 20 baht each, or 70 cents US, do so out of poverty. Yet, my pet dog --also a husky-- yelped in sympathetic pain, as did other neighbours' dogs, as it watched and heard the disgusting capture (=sale) of the helpless animals.

My location is Phontong District, Roi-et Province.

Your dog and the others told you that their vocalizations were sympathetic? No, that's just a reflex owing to dog's evolution as pack animals. They certainly weren't passing a moral judgement.

The only part of the report that's even vaguely troubling is that animals are held for several days without food before being processed. If they're being starved to save on the cost of feed, that's reprehensible. However it might be important that the bowels be empty at slaughter to prevent spoiling the meat.

Other than that, what's inhumane about it? You cite the dog's intelligence; pigs are smarter and we eat them. People put all sorts of animals in cages for all sorts of reasons, some good and some bad. Cows are stunned with a blow to the head in many abattoirs before they're bled out; kosher and hillal butchery forbid even that.

What is certain is that Rover, like most meat, is quite delicious if prepared well. The rest is just anthropomorphic posturing.

Actually, there's nothing inhumane about it. The entire post, like the Holocaust, was just a joke. Drop by and have some dog steak.

I find your statement regarding the Holocaust as a joke offensive and insulting. I am going to insist that scum like you are banned from Thai Visa.

Edited November 20, 2007 by distortedlink

[powwow]

I just (20 minutes ago) saw a pickup with the rear portion caged. Three beautiful ma baan dogs were in the cage. They will be starved and then killed for their meat. The starvation lasts for everal days. Death, I believe, is by hammer. The fresh-dog-meat market is located in a neighbouring province. The price per kilogram for the finished product is around 120 baht per kilogram.

Note that a ma baan is very similar to a husky. It is a smart animal. The people who sell these poor beasts, for around 20 baht each, or 70 cents US, do so out of poverty. Yet, my pet dog --also a husky-- yelped in sympathetic pain, as did other neighbours' dogs, as it watched and heard the disgusting capture (=sale) of the helpless animals.

My location is Phontong District, Roi-et Province.

Your dog and the others told you that their vocalizations were sympathetic? No, that's just a reflex owing to dog's evolution as pack animals. They certainly weren't passing a moral judgement.

The only part of the report that's even vaguely troubling is that animals are held for several days without food before being processed. If they're being starved to save on the cost of feed, that's reprehensible. However it might be important that the bowels be empty at slaughter to prevent spoiling the meat.

Other than that, what's inhumane about it? You cite the dog's intelligence; pigs are smarter and we eat them. People put all sorts of animals in cages for all sorts of reasons, some good and some bad. Cows are stunned with a blow to the head in many abattoirs before they're bled out; kosher and hillal butchery forbid even that.

What is certain is that Rover, like most meat, is quite delicious if prepared well. The rest is just anthropomorphic posturing.

Actually, there's nothing inhumane about it. The entire post, like the Holocaust, was just a joke. Drop by and have some dog steak.

DROP DEAD DREGBAG

[JR Texas]

I just (20 minutes ago) saw a pickup with the rear portion caged. Three beautiful ma baan dogs were in the cage. They will be starved and then killed for their meat. The starvation lasts for everal days. Death, I believe, is by hammer. The fresh-dog-meat market is located in a neighbouring province. The price per kilogram for the finished product is around 120 baht per kilogram.

Note that a ma baan is very similar to a husky. It is a smart animal. The people who sell these poor beasts, for around 20 baht each, or 70 cents US, do so out of poverty. Yet, my pet dog --also a husky-- yelped in sympathetic pain, as did other neighbours' dogs, as it watched and heard the disgusting capture (=sale) of the helpless animals.

My location is Phontong District, Roi-et Province.

Your dog and the others told you that their vocalizations were sympathetic? No, that's just a reflex owing to dog's evolution as pack animals. They certainly weren't passing a moral judgement.

The only part of the report that's even vaguely troubling is that animals are held for several days without food before being processed. If they're being starved to save on the cost of feed, that's reprehensible. However it might be important that the bowels be empty at slaughter to prevent spoiling the meat.

Other than that, what's inhumane about it? You cite the dog's intelligence; pigs are smarter and we eat them. People put all sorts of animals in cages for all sorts of reasons, some good and some bad. Cows are stunned with a blow to the head in many abattoirs before they're bled out; kosher and hillal butchery forbid even that.

What is certain is that Rover, like most meat, is quite delicious if prepared well. The rest is just anthropomorphic posturing.

Actually, there's nothing inhumane about it. The entire post, like the Holocaust, was just a joke. Drop by and have some dog steak.

DROP DEAD DREGBAG

Can we stop with the genocide jokes! There is nothing funny about them and really do not put the discussion in perspective.

Now, where I live a man periodically drives his caged truck around town and picks up dogs. He comes and goes quickly. Local residents and the always alert police never do anything about it. People tell me the dogs are headed for a "pot in Laos." It makes me sick to think about it, mainly because I am an American and always had dogs for pets.

I have recently heard, from a reliable dog, that immigration officers are training packs of dogs to drive around in caged trucks and seize poor-looking (non-quality) farangs off the streets and then take them to the countryside and roast them over a fire.

Immigration officers are insisting, however, that the dogs beat and torture the farangs before killing them.....thinking that this makes the meat more tender. Negotations between the dogs and officers are ongoing........... :D

[thaipete]

I was once told by a Thai we don't eat dogs in Thailand, then well only black dogs

[bina]

jayjayjay

i raise among other things, sheep and goats and most of the goats are pets. those that are males, well, they get named: makluba, shwarma, shishlik etc. they are tasty. i know they are going to the pot. but they still get good treatment before hand, and oh, btw, u can have a relationship with goats, pigs, etc. sheep are a little /a lot more dumb the herd mentality bred into them makes them act like molecules with no thoughts, but goats u can work with. they recognize people even from a year ago, they respond to petting, simple instructions, are curious and have very distinct personalities.

i still eat goats.

i would and probably have eaten dog in thailand and possibly here among the thai workers. i raise train and work with dogs.

i dont know of too many thai that dont eat cow ; one girlfriend of mine said that she eats only the 'lower' life forms and not cow, buffalo etc.

my husband wont touch buffalo dog, or even rabbit but will eat pig. sheep and goats just arent tasty to him.

again, its cultural perceptions and not right vs. not right.

the conditions the food animals are kept in however, thats a different kettle of fish....

bon apetite

bina