Question For All Women

[Momo8]

I was reading the messages posted here, and two phrases stuck in my mind as rather disturbing. One was 'he asked for sex and I let him do as he wish' and the other was, 'I never said no to sex'.

Do you all think that sex is something the guy wants to do? Are there no women out their in charge of their sexuality? Is anyone showing men what they want them to do? Where to put their hands, which angle to point their 'members' during intercourse? Or do you all lie back and look at the ceiling until he's finished?

Maybe it's just me, but I feel that sex should be an act where both people instigate and enjoy pleasure together. It's about being intimate and exploring each other's bodies, finding out what feels good and what makes your loved one go 'oooooh'.

What happened to feminism? What happened to...I don't mean being in charge of your men, but what happened to mutual respect and mutual understanding? What happened to taking charge of your sexuality?

Can anyone help to enlighten me?

[sbk]

Just curious where you saw these posts momo? They must have slipped by me as I don't recall reading them. Curious as to context.

[eek]

I havent seen those posts either.

Tbh i thought it was a given that the majority of women (certainly western women) feel sexually empowered.

[Andiamo]

I havent seen those posts either.

Tbh i thought it was a given that the majority of women (certainly western women) feel sexually empowered.

Perhaps Momo8 you could post the link/insert the "messages" that you read??...So we can understand better where you are coming from....

I am quite flummoxed by your thread and had to reread it to check I had understood what you had written! (TBH, I thought it was a bit like something from the 1950s maybe, rather than the 21st century! ).

I am in complete agreement with eek, that most Western women DEFINITELY participate fully and even - (heaven forbid) - jump on their guy and initiate sex on occasion!!!

Excuse me, I gotta go, I hear the front door opening, time to jump on my other half and have my wicked way with him...... Maybe I'll even tie him to the bed and dominate him....

[kat]

Momo, I like your questions, but the way it is worded seems to be a rant directed at everyone. Phrases like: "Do you all think that sex is something the guy wants to do? Are there no women out their in charge of their sexuality? Maybe it's just me... "

tend to appear as if we are being judged for things we perhaps did not say, and attitudes that are held by more than just you.

So, I think you should be more specific, or generalize your thread so that it is relevant to the rest of us.

[Momo8]

The actual posts I can't seem to find it was in various threads about relationships breaking down in Thailand where the husbands or boyfriends leave to be with Thai women.Darn wish I could be more specific. There was also a thread about a Thai girl whose farang bf left her and she mused as to what she was doing wrong to paraphrase 'never saying no to sex' etc.( long time ago)

Current threads are interesting about sexual expectations and how men treat women.Yes my post was rather badly worded.

[kat]

No worries, Momo. Thanks for the clarity.

I thought the questions were good, so I made the suggestions so the thread would get its due share of relevant comments.

[Momo8]

My post was meant as more of a generalised view and observation about some women not being in control or in touch with their sexuality especially Thai women.( correct me if i'm wrong here) That thread a while back about the guy trying to help his wife get in touch with her sexuality.Sex the giving of or with holding of in order to keep a guy/control a guy. The concept of a sex buddy being discussed on Onionman's thread. Men discussing girls who 'don't put out'.

Sex is a powerful weapon after all.

[eek]

Maybe some of those girl/wives who 'dont put out', really just dont desire their partners sexually. Im not saying all of course, or trying to put down men. But it may just be a convenient excuse for some of the ladies who are with/married to men for other reasons than love/desire.

I cant speak for ladies that are non-western, can only give a generalised view of what I familiar with. And, that is, that most western women are sexually liberated.

[Andiamo]

I can kinda see where you are coming from Momo8 (I think!). Hope I am on track with my response

I, for one, do not think that sex should be used as a controlling device between a woman and a man. i.e. Not putting out as punishment etc. It is something that should be shared and freely given (within the relationship I mean - Sorry I am NOT one of these free love kinda gals! ).

Sex/Making Love is something that should be enjoyed, and experimented with between two consenting adults who desire each other. Sure as we grow and mature, our needs, wants and desires may change depending on what stage of life we may be at - however, regardless of where we are in life and in our relationship, we should always be receptive to our lovers needs, wants and desires which should also be reciprocated. (Sorry, as per Onion's thread - a bowl of rice or noodles just doesn't cut it! )

Nowadays, I cannot believe that many gals just lie back and think of England (as we say in the UK). We are ALL SO aware and so savvy in this day and age methinks - Txs to the media/reality tv shows/magazines etc. (Unlike perhaps my Mother's generation (60 years old) when people were perhaps less aware? I think this is a fair comment...)

I can only comment on my perspectives but I think the majority of Western women ARE extremely comfortable with their sexuality, (perhaps this could be evidenced by the sheer number of Sex Aids/toys outlets in the UK and the numerous "Sex life/suggestions/postions" articles in Marie Claire, Cosmopolitan etc etc. Articles along the lines of "When one 'Big O' is not enough", "How to find your G-spot" etc etc - Just in case anyone lost it!!! ).

I think women are EXTREMELY aware of their bodies and what they like, want and can do - the best thing too of course is when your partner also knows what does it for you or you explore and play together!

Love/Sex should be fun and pleasurable, right!

I think it would be interesting to hear from an Asian/Thai FEMALE perspective....

Edited November 15, 2007 by Andiamo

[Momo8]

Yes you have it!

As a western woman married to a Chinese guy (not that nationality matters) but cultural background does play a major role in how one sees sexuality/sensuality.OK so I'm experienced and confident about my sexuality but it did take a little time before my husband was comfortable with the idea of a woman taking charge hahaha or the initiative or trying way out positions or experimenting.

Heck that was a long time ago and we still can't keep our hands off each other and we have a very close,communicative and passionate sex life,,,,,,,,,but many women friends as you say the passion wanes,the spark is gone so they become disillusioned with it all especially being in HK and guess most of Asia where foreign women are threatened by their Asian counterparts as sex is freely available.So they 'put out' even though they're not in the mood or for whatever reason for fear hubby will find a 'friend with benefits' or prostitute.

So a western woman's freedom of when/how often/how is being threatned because hubby/boyfriend can always get it somewhere else!

'One was 'he asked for sex and I let him do as he wish' and the other was, 'I never said no to sex'. ' So western women DO make compromises to keep their men and YES it would be interesting to hear from an Asian perspective too or even some of the guys.

[Ave]

Yes you have it!

As a western woman married to a Chinese guy (not that nationality matters) but cultural background does play a major role in how one sees sexuality/sensuality.OK so I'm experienced and confident about my sexuality but it did take a little time before my husband was comfortable with the idea of a woman taking charge hahaha or the initiative or trying way out positions or experimenting.

Heck that was a long time ago and we still can't keep our hands off each other and we have a very close,communicative and passionate sex life,,,,,,,,,but many women friends as you say the passion wanes,the spark is gone so they become disillusioned with it all especially being in HK and guess most of Asia where foreign women are threatened by their Asian counterparts as sex is freely available.So they 'put out' even though they're not in the mood or for whatever reason for fear hubby will find a 'friend with benefits' or prostitute.

So a western woman's freedom of when/how often/how is being threatned because hubby/boyfriend can always get it somewhere else!

'One was 'he asked for sex and I let him do as he wish' and the other was, 'I never said no to sex'. ' So western women DO make compromises to keep their men and YES it would be interesting to hear from an Asian perspective too or even some of the guys.

Ok, I'm not an Asian woman but I don't come from a north-western society, although I lived in it for a long period of time. I can tell you that in several southern parts of the civilized globe like southern Italy, Greece, north Africa, Turkey, the middle east etc..a lot of young and not so young women have and are still now regularly abused by their fathers/brothers/uncles/boyfriend/husbands. This is not a generalisation. It's a fact. Unfortunatley a lot of these women will deny this mainly because it happened at such an early age to a lot of them that they wouldn't even remember a detail. Fortunately this doesn't apply to all women but it is true that only a smaller percentage of women - probably a lot of them can't even get access to internet - can claim that they are in control of their sexual life all the time. Have I been too harsh..?

[Andiamo]

Yes you have it!

As a western woman married to a Chinese guy (not that nationality matters) but cultural background does play a major role in how one sees sexuality/sensuality.OK so I'm experienced and confident about my sexuality but it did take a little time before my husband was comfortable with the idea of a woman taking charge hahaha or the initiative or trying way out positions or experimenting.

Heck that was a long time ago and we still can't keep our hands off each other and we have a very close,communicative and passionate sex life,,,,,,,,,but many women friends as you say the passion wanes,the spark is gone so they become disillusioned with it all especially being in HK and guess most of Asia where foreign women are threatened by their Asian counterparts as sex is freely available.So they 'put out' even though they're not in the mood or for whatever reason for fear hubby will find a 'friend with benefits' or prostitute.

So a western woman's freedom of when/how often/how is being threatned because hubby/boyfriend can always get it somewhere else!

'One was 'he asked for sex and I let him do as he wish' and the other was, 'I never said no to sex'. ' So western women DO make compromises to keep their men and YES it would be interesting to hear from an Asian perspective too or even some of the guys.

Hmmm Momo8, not sure I agree with your first set of comments highlighted above...

BTW, I didn't say the passion wanes... I still consider myself a relative youngster , so would very much hope the passion does NOT wane!! (Or anything else for that matter!)

In addition, I don't agree with what you say that 'foreign women are threatened by their Asian counterparts as sex is freely available...and if the foreign/western woman does not "put out" in Asia, then the guy will go and get it somewhere else'.

I think this also depends on the person/s concerned and what kind of relationship you are in. Also what stage of the relationship you are in (i.e. dating/unmarried/living together/engaged/married/have kids/don't have kids etc). And if you are committed, trust each other and have mutual respect for each other etc. These are prerequisites for any relationship that I have ever been in, and if there are none of these, well, then there is no relationship - Simple!

I would be a complete nervous wreck if I was so insecure about my partner that I was worrying about where he was/who he was when he was out of my sight . This is not me, or any of my female friends here.

Here in Thailand, I don't mix in Professional Expat circles so I cannot comment on the sentiment felt there, (it sounds from your previous post in Onion's thread that HK is quite a swinging place (with Friends with Benefits etc). Not mine or my partner's cup of tea but each to his or her own! Diversity is what makes the world go round after all.

We have a lot of friends here, couples, newly-weds, just had babies, got kids already etc etc, and believe me, this is not a topic of discussion when we meet up. That is not to say that all men are necessarily trustworthy and honest of course. I am not that naive!

Regardless, I think your statement is quite broad and sweeping, and I don't agree that this is the general feeling of foreign women... any other ladies out there, please feel free to correct me......

Incidentally, your second set of comments I feel have been taken out of context and therefore, I don't feel comfortable commenting on them as I think we only have half a story.... No offence meant MOMO8!

Edited November 15, 2007 by Andiamo

[mark henry]

I hope it's ok for me to comment here, being a chap. My very limited experience of Thai women (and thats mostly the wife) is that they are very conservative and quite unaware of their bodies/sexuality. Of course i'm generalizing and don't include Bar girls but the wife for example would much rather watch her Thai t.v with a bowl of noodles rather than indulge in some bedrooms fun and when i do get her into the bedrooms she insists on lights out!! Is it me or are Asian women just plain dull in that respect or perhaps oppressed i don't know but it's tough on me some times Dare i say this but i'm not surprised most Thai guys have got "small wives"!

[Momo8]

None taken Andiamo you are an intelligent poster with many constructive comments.I am trying to find a medium here what I've described about HK is nothing new but that doesn't mean it's a swinging place.Many marriages and relationships do break up just because of sex or lack of it.

I have lived in Bangkok many years ago I still have good friends there.Eight years later,NONE of their marriages survived Thailand.It all boiled down to sex.I think many expat wives here and in Thailand do feel threatend to a certain degree and no matter how stable or loving a relationship is,the environment does change people.

A strong relationship can survive but.......

Ave you are describing abuse and sure it happens in many Asian countries also.

[Chris Lawrence]

The chase was better. The dream has gone????

[Momo8]

Meaning?

[Andiamo]

None taken Andiamo you are an intelligent poster with many constructive comments.I am trying to find a medium here what I've described about HK is nothing new but that doesn't mean it's a swinging place.Many marriages and relationships do break up just because of sex or lack of it.

I have lived in Bangkok many years ago I still have good friends there.Eight years later,NONE of their marriages survived Thailand.It all boiled down to sex.I think many expat wives here and in Thailand do feel threatend to a certain degree and no matter how stable or loving a relationship is,the environment does change people.

A strong relationship can survive but.......

Ave you are describing abuse and sure it happens in many Asian countries also.

Awww Txs for the compliment, I'll never be able to get through the door with such a big head!

From your friends' experiences', I must admit I am surprised to read that NONE of their marriages survived here. But perhaps this is one segment, as I also know many marriages here that HAVE survived (up until now anyways). Of course, marriages will fail all over the world - not just in LOS. In the UK about 5 years ago, the statistic used to be that one in three marriages would end in divorce.. Not sure if this is still true today....

At the end of the day, we are all adults and each individual is old enough to think, behave and act for themselves. And, if there are consequences, then they are also big enough and old enough to have to deal with those consequences too. (Of course it can be sad especially if there are babies and kids involved and families break up - but these can be the consequences..).

"You pays your money and you takes your chances" as the rather apt saying goes. If someone is willing to gamble or/and lose what they have , then that is their choice, THEY know the consequences.....

[Andiamo]

I hope it's ok for me to comment here, being a chap. My very limited experience of Thai women (and thats mostly the wife) is that they are very conservative and quite unaware of their bodies/sexuality. Of course i'm generalizing and don't include Bar girls but the wife for example would much rather watch her Thai t.v with a bowl of noodles rather than indulge in some bedrooms fun and when i do get her into the bedrooms she insists on lights out!! Is it me or are Asian women just plain dull in that respect or perhaps oppressed i don't know but it's tough on me some times Dare i say this but i'm not surprised most Thai guys have got "small wives"!

Sure you can comment here Mark Henry, thanks for your contribution! It's interesting to hear from the Thai woman's perspective (via her hubbie ) about watching TV and eating noodles!

We are all different as your post has demonstrated.

Would be interested in male/female responses/experiences to the questions you posed... Perhaps your rationale is correct and that is why the concept of the "mia noy" or the "bit on the side" appears to be so readily accaepted in this country ????

What do other posters think?

[Momo8]

Mark Henry loves his wife and she is traditional.

I'd like to know how guys feel about women who are in control of their sexuality as opposed to the submissive set.Of course in the perfect world,sex is a balance but it never happens.Environment plays a major part in this.Some Western women DO put up and shut up to satisfy their partners so they don't wander.Saying that the relationship was on the rocks in the first place is well just an excuse.

Some women take control of unfulfilled desires and unhappy relationships by seeking an affair or a sex buddy.

What do men prefer? This is in the Ladies forum so hum many wouldn't look here even homosexual relationships.SEX to many men is the definying factor of a relationship or why would so many guys post here about it?

Sure there are statistics in many countries about divorces and relationship breakdowns but it seems to me to be more prevalent here in Asia.SEX is used to get a guy/keep a guy/keep a relationship or marriage going by both western and Thai girls alike.Western women I guess are too liberated and independant to some extent and men are just plain lazy.They love the sex buddy/one night stand scene,the flirtatious messages,it's all been rehashed before.

Staying true to yourself is good advice.It's not about insecurity it's about reality.

[seonai]

I've heard that lots of Thai women take lovers - not sure if it's for sex or companionship. There are several clubs in Bkk apparently where a woman can go for a dancing companion and much more if she wants to pay

[Momo8]

Yes but there is a big difference between a lover and a sex buddy.

Here it happens too but lovers are treated differently to a sex buddy.

One is mutual respect and a connection on an emotional/physical level, one is texting and setting up a bonkfest.

[mark henry]

I hope it's ok for me to comment here, being a chap. My very limited experience of Thai women (and thats mostly the wife) is that they are very conservative and quite unaware of their bodies/sexuality. Of course i'm generalizing and don't include Bar girls but the wife for example would much rather watch her Thai t.v with a bowl of noodles rather than indulge in some bedrooms fun and when i do get her into the bedrooms she insists on lights out!! Is it me or are Asian women just plain dull in that respect or perhaps oppressed i don't know but it's tough on me some times Dare i say this but i'm not surprised most Thai guys have got "small wives"!

Sure you can comment here Mark Henry, thanks for your contribution! It's interesting to hear from the Thai woman's perspective (via her hubbie ) about watching TV and eating noodles!

We are all different as your post has demonstrated.

Would be interested in male/female responses/experiences to the questions you posed... Perhaps your rationale is correct and that is why the concept of the "mia noy" or the "bit on the side" appears to be so readily accaepted in this country ????

What do other posters think?

Thanks i was expecting a slating for my comments!

[mark henry]

Mark Henry loves his wife and she is traditional.

I'd like to know how guys feel about women who are in control of their sexuality as opposed to the submissive set.Of course in the perfect world,sex is a balance but it never happens.Environment plays a major part in this.Some Western women DO put up and shut up to satisfy their partners so they don't wander.Saying that the relationship was on the rocks in the first place is well just an excuse.

Some women take control of unfulfilled desires and unhappy relationships by seeking an affair or a sex buddy.

What do men prefer? This is in the Ladies forum so hum many wouldn't look here even homosexual relationships.SEX to many men is the definying factor of a relationship or why would so many guys post here about it?

Sure there are statistics in many countries about divorces and relationship breakdowns but it seems to me to be more prevalent here in Asia.SEX is used to get a guy/keep a guy/keep a relationship or marriage going by both western and Thai girls alike.Western women I guess are too liberated and independant to some extent and men are just plain lazy.They love the sex buddy/one night stand scene,the flirtatious messages,it's all been rehashed before.

Staying true to yourself is good advice.It's not about insecurity it's about reality.

yes i do love my wife and she's quite traditional but the cultural differences can be a real head-ache to deal with. As for what men prefer....submissive but with an open mind is the ideal

[Momo8]

So how would you react if your wife turned into a she-tiger and the sexual aspect of your relationship suddenly changed? Would you be threatend or excited?

My husband WAS traditional before I converted him now he's a sex god but all from good communication,lost inhibitions,losing the traditonal stereotypes and of course a pretty high sex drive on both sides.

Took me about a month.

But so many women aren't in my situation and are either submissive and unhappy/put it out/make a stand/use sex as a control tool...and well eventually it all backfires.Love without good sex is an empty promise.

[DamianMavis]

Mark Henry loves his wife and she is traditional.

I'd like to know how guys feel about women who are in control of their sexuality as opposed to the submissive set.Of course in the perfect world,sex is a balance but it never happens.Environment plays a major part in this.Some Western women DO put up and shut up to satisfy their partners so they don't wander.Saying that the relationship was on the rocks in the first place is well just an excuse.

Some women take control of unfulfilled desires and unhappy relationships by seeking an affair or a sex buddy.

What do men prefer? This is in the Ladies forum so hum many wouldn't look here even homosexual relationships.SEX to many men is the definying factor of a relationship or why would so many guys post here about it?

Sure there are statistics in many countries about divorces and relationship breakdowns but it seems to me to be more prevalent here in Asia.SEX is used to get a guy/keep a guy/keep a relationship or marriage going by both western and Thai girls alike.Western women I guess are too liberated and independant to some extent and men are just plain lazy.They love the sex buddy/one night stand scene,the flirtatious messages,it's all been rehashed before.

Staying true to yourself is good advice.It's not about insecurity it's about reality.

yes i do love my wife and she's quite traditional but the cultural differences can be a real head-ache to deal with. As for what men prefer....submissive but with an open mind is the ideal

Naw man, that is YOUR preference. That is not what men want.

Damian

[Momo8]

Yeah so enlighten us please. .....WHAT DO MEN WANT??? (could be the sequel to the Mel movie What Do Women Want) You've all had it with trying to work out women so what do you guys really want?

Why play us,marry us,be sex buddies with us,betray,get us pregnant,make us play games,be normal or nuts,buy us,pamper us,give us babies then disappear or lose interest.

I don't care as I'm happy but asking for my disillusioned friends out there What do men really want?Maybe one day I will need this advice who knows?

Is it monogamy (a piece of wood in some guys minds),virtue,submissiveness,agressiveness,a good wife,a good provider,a good time,what's the ultimate goal?

Cut all the shit and come clean.

Edited November 15, 2007 by Momo8

[kat]

Momo, you are refreshing! Unfortunately, I'm too busy right now to get too deeply involved, but I will swoop in from time to time with pithy comments. I tried to comment here, but I kept erasing it. This forum is not the time or place for me.

[sbk]

I have to say, momo, I do not feel comfortable discussing a quote taken out of context with no source cited, it is really difficult to say what the poster meant simply by your take on one part of the post. So, as with andiamo, I will not be considering that in my response.

Anyway....there can be no hard and fast rule as to what men want as all men are individuals and have different opinions and tastes, as Damian has pointed out and as you can see by looking at women themselves. Of course, there are generalities but is it really fair to someone you are interested in, or in a relationship in, to apply such generalities to him? I certainly don't appreciate it when they are applied to me, so I suspect others would feel the same as well.

Some men like an independent, strong-minded wife, my husband happens to be one of those. Some men like women who appear to be submissive and obedient (key word here is appear because IME of alot of women who appear this way simply use other means to get what they want rather than open demands).

Some men like girlish women, some men like seductresses. Just depends on the guy.

Frankly, I think the one thing most men would prefer is a little less introspection and constant analysis of everything they do and think and just acceptance of who they are for what they are.

As I read somewhere, men go into a relationship thinking the woman will never change, women go into it thinking the man will change.

[wolfmanjack]

Frankly, I think the one thing most men would prefer is a little less introspection and constant analysis of everything they do and think and just acceptance of who they are for what they are.

As I read somewhere, men go into a relationship thinking the woman will never change, women go into it thinking the man will change.

I think this is an accurate statement. It is for me anyway. It took me many years to find someone that I wanted to marry and have children with and then have them change is very frustrating. I realize that we all change in small ways according to our environment but changes to the point where you are not the same person any more are not what I want. Any way i have accepted that change is part of life and is better than the alternative.

Yes guys have different tastes just like women have different tastes. This applies to every aspect both physical and mental. I have friends that almost never have sex. Most times it is the wife that does not want to put out but some times it is the husband. In my case we are both interested in sex as often as possible and my wife has no problems telling me what she wants to do. She experiments with things that she reads in her women's magazines. She also comes to ask me if people really do things that are mentioned in some articles. She was quite naive when we married and in some ways she still is. She is amazed by some of the fetishes that she reads about.

As to the OP. Many (not necessarily most) women that i have talked to do not enjoy sex and have learned to use it as a way of getting a husband and controlling men. My theory is that most women that do not enjoy sex had a bad experience for their first few times they tried it. Then after that they just shut them selves off. For example I knew a girl that her first few boyfriends were the wham bam thank you mam type of sex partner. They did not care about giving an enjoyable experience to the woman therefore it was not enjoyable to her. She ended up getting the impression that all men were that way and just did whatever she could to get it over with after that. It took a lot of patience and encouragement to get her to try foreplay and anything other than the missionary position. She did end up being an aggressive sexual partner after a few months.

Just my opinion.