Male/female - East Vs West

[sylviex]

With a topic like this, much will be unquantifiable.

I have no problem with that.

[sylviex]

OK - I would hope that discrimination on the basis of gender is becoming less prevalent in the countries you named.

That is absolutely not to say it does not still exist there.

But your imaginary scenario of women from more "progressive" countries noting the status of women ( -or dark-skinned people, Burmese, Indians, etc. etc ) in Thailand (or numerous other countries) is interesting, since that scene in itself seems a highly probable one.

You chose for these imaginary women to be wishing to proselytise/impose Western values. Are you really seeing that around you ? (No statistics needed).

Anyway boys and girls, I'm taking my better half away for five days starting tomorrow, off up country to see Mum and to see old friends in Chiang Mai hence I shall sadly not be able to spend anytime pursuing this topic and given the apparent rantings from the parallel thread that has interwoven itself, probably just as well. I look forward to reading however what has been concluded when I return. Oh and by the way, thanks to everyone for a really useful discussion, I actually learned a few things.

Is your "better half" a woman ? Why not ask her, and her family, about all this ? I think many of us would be genuinely interested in what they have to say, if you can get them to speak sincerely.

Have a good trip.

[Boo]

I’ve followed a number of threads of late discussing male/female relations in Thailand and note with much interest the extent to which western female commentators seem to promote shades of the Western liberalised views of the feminist movement. Men and women are equal in every respect, the male is bad because he not (allegedly) as monogamous as the female and, most importantly, the female in the East should be regarded the same way as the female in the West, are all sound bites and more I detect.

ok i paraphrased but you get the point i hope...

the fact is that the catalyst for the original post was two different sources and I deliberately did not want to identify one of them since they hold high office on a well known social networking site in Asia and discussion about there views might have led to the post being deleted and me being banned.

nicely sidestepped my request for any posts of mine then. hmm so more fabrication i can assume. dress it any way you want a lie is a lie is a lie.

certainly no male conspiracy or plot

for someone who claims to find that western women are "always" going on about equality or feminism/the sex war you started the thread & seem to reference it a lot more than any of the women here do. I wonder if anyone else sees the irony? who mentioned male conspiracy??? you are the one making things up to suit your argument, you just so happen to be male.

[chiang mai]

I’ve followed a number of threads of late discussing male/female relations in Thailand and note with much interest the extent to which western female commentators seem to promote shades of the Western liberalised views of the feminist movement. Men and women are equal in every respect, the male is bad because he not (allegedly) as monogamous as the female and, most importantly, the female in the East should be regarded the same way as the female in the West, are all sound bites and more I detect.

ok i paraphrased but you get the point i hope...

the fact is that the catalyst for the original post was two different sources and I deliberately did not want to identify one of them since they hold high office on a well known social networking site in Asia and discussion about there views might have led to the post being deleted and me being banned.

nicely sidestepped my request for any posts of mine then. hmm so more fabrication i can assume. dress it any way you want a lie is a lie is a lie.

certainly no male conspiracy or plot

for someone who claims to find that western women are "always" going on about equality or feminism/the sex war you started the thread & seem to reference it a lot more than any of the women here do. I wonder if anyone else sees the irony? who mentioned male conspiracy??? you are the one making things up to suit your argument, you just so happen to be male.

Do try to understand that I have no posts of yours I wish to point you to!

My question to you is, in all fairness and honesty: would you respond to female posters the way you have just responded to me above, simply because I am a male. Boo, I hope you are not letting the strong feminist traits you displayed in this thread impair your objectivity. Now I really am leaving for holiday.

[chiang mai]

I’ve followed a number of threads of late discussing male/female relations in Thailand and note with much interest the extent to which western female commentators seem to promote shades of the Western liberalised views of the feminist movement. Men and women are equal in every respect, the male is bad because he not (allegedly) as monogamous as the female and, most importantly, the female in the East should be regarded the same way as the female in the West, are all sound bites and more I detect.

ok i paraphrased but you get the point i hope...

the fact is that the catalyst for the original post was two different sources and I deliberately did not want to identify one of them since they hold high office on a well known social networking site in Asia and discussion about there views might have led to the post being deleted and me being banned.

nicely sidestepped my request for any posts of mine then. hmm so more fabrication i can assume. dress it any way you want a lie is a lie is a lie.

certainly no male conspiracy or plot

for someone who claims to find that western women are "always" going on about equality or feminism/the sex war you started the thread & seem to reference it a lot more than any of the women here do. I wonder if anyone else sees the irony? who mentioned male conspiracy??? you are the one making things up to suit your argument, you just so happen to be male.

Have just realized, call me Kat for coming back if you wish: When I wrote in the OP, "I've been following a number of threads..", I do not refer to TV threads and use the term "threads" to mean sources and trust that is the source of the ambiguity.

[Boo]

hy-larious, you make it quite personal to me by claiming to have started this thread based on a post of mine but when asked to provide it are totally unable. So as I can only concule you stated that as yet another "fabrication" you start to throw around the feminist label. Wow, do try to have a nice time on holiday as you seem to be in need of the rest. and a better argument it would seem too.

[chiang mai]

you make it quite personal to me by claiming to have started this thread based on a post of mine

Incorrect, keep your paranoia under control and your combative spirit in check!

[Boo]

what was it I said about a dictatorship a few posts back showing your true colours there deary. I suggest your try another way to regain some credibility, honesty might be a good start.

[PeaceBlondie]

Men and women are not the same physically, but they are about 5% different, anatomically. They are equal intellectually. Emotional status is driven by culture.

I hate OP's who say provide the quantification for your 5% difference but I'm afraid that if you are going to quote it I'll have to ask for supporting evidence. It's not that I don't believe you it's just that I don't identify with that number as a scientific assessment, nor have I ever heard it before.

As for the second part, sorry PB but there is far more to it than just cultural drivers and I'ld be out of my depth if I tried to guess what they might be. Perhaps therefore you can explain whether that is opinion or fact. Sorry to be a pain but the differences between men and women are at the very heart of this debate hence I'm not comfortable accepting what might turn out to be throw away statements.

Anatomically: hands, feet, head, stomach, throat, ears, skin, eyelashes, chins, larynx, eyes, legs, arms, nose, hair, brain: 95% anatomically the same. Men generally have larger muscles, smaller breasts (but they have chests and nipples), more hair (but women have lots of hair), etc. Kidneys, livers, lungs, etc. Pretty much the same. You don't need a scientific survey of 29 anatomical scientists to understand that one. Same species.

Emotional: we all cry (even if secretly, or if a loved one dies), we have pain or joy or orgasms or friendship or or or...the list goes on. The behavior by which we exhibit the emotions is culturally conditioned.

Nah, I don't have no stinkin' quantification. I made up that 5% statistic on the sperm of the moment. Maybe the anatomical difference is 4.3% or 9.8644%, but you get the point that we're the same species, human. In spite of pop psychology, women aren't from Venus and we aren't from Mars. Simply in my biased opinion, I suspect most of the 'differences between the genders' are man-made and man-maintained, to keep their women (even their own daughters) subordinate and inferior. Of course, I'm often wrong, and macho White Aryan males may be the superior race, but I doubt it.

[Pepe']

I don't see the attitude you claim from the women on the forum here but..... I am a traditional man, feminists would call me sexist. I truly believe that men and women have clearly defined roles and when you break away from those roles you have unhappy couples, maybe that is why we have such a high divorce rate in the west. There's nothing wrong with a strong woman, but she better hook up with an even stronger man or I think she will be unhappy. It's basic instinct, I've never seen a happy woman that was with a weak man. Constant fighting and disrespect is NOT normal and is a big sign that SOMEONES unhappy, which is what I see back in Canada ALL THE TIME with couples. Always when the man was too weak. I'm in trouble now!

Damian

----------------------------

I been meaning to ask.

Is your avatar your picture?

[jetjock]

Nah, I don't have no stinkin' quantification. I made up that 5% statistic on the sperm of the moment. Maybe the anatomical difference is 4.3% or 9.8644%, but you get the point that we're the same species, human. In spite of pop psychology, women aren't from Venus and we aren't from Mars. Simply in my biased opinion, I suspect most of the 'differences between the genders' are man-made and man-maintained, to keep their women (even their own daughters) subordinate and inferior. Of course, I'm often wrong, and macho White Aryan males may be the superior race, but I doubt it.

(excepted by jj for brevity)

All animal species have clearly defined gender roles and duties in nature and by this basic instinct, many have managed to survive through millions of years of evolution. It has to make you wonder (as some anthropogist also do), how our break with the long history of mankind by the development in western society of a new unisex culture where there are no longer any gender roles, duties or responsibilities is going to survive in the long term.

[chanchao]

Nah, I don't have no stinkin' quantification. I made up that 5% statistic on the sperm of the moment. Maybe the anatomical difference is 4.3% or 9.8644%, but you get the point that we're the same species, human. In spite of pop psychology, women aren't from Venus and we aren't from Mars. Simply in my biased opinion, I suspect most of the 'differences between the genders' are man-made and man-maintained, to keep their women (even their own daughters) subordinate and inferior. Of course, I'm often wrong, and macho White Aryan males may be the superior race, but I doubt it.

I think you're off on a slight tangent. The whole discussion is ABOUT cultural differences, I think everyone's quite comfortable with whatever physical difference there is.

[thaiman]

Ladies, Gentlemen, should Asian females be treated and regarded here the same way as they are in the West

Why fix something that isn't broken?

[NanLaew]

When these old white guys start having kids with young Thai girls then that is all wrong.

Amongst other reasons that i wont mention here, older fathers are far more likely to have children with schizophrenia, Men aged 45 to 49 are twice as likely to have children with schizophrenia as men under the age of 25 who became fathers, while the risk triples for men over the age of 50.

http://www.schizophrenia.com/prevention/older.htm

For the offspring of older fathers (over age 50), the risk of schizophrenia is about 3%. That means that 97% of the offspring do not have schizophrenia.

http://www.fathersnetwork.org/1008.html?pa...d3296fc&s=0

There is evidence showing that older parents are more likely to have children with autism, indicating either age or some kind of external influence does play a role. "It’s an interesting hypothesis," Sebat said.

http://mentalhealth.about.com/od/schizophr...hizophrenia.htm

Nope, nada. Next?

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/200...fsr-1104101.php

The new findings, however, shouldn't deter older men from becoming fathers, says Dr. Harlap. "I don't think that older men should disqualify themselves from becoming parents. At any particular age, there is always a trade-off. Our study suggests that a man's progeny are going to be healthiest if he has his children during his early 20s. But we know that many men aren't ready for marriage and parenthood at that age. A man may want to wait until he is mature enough and economically stable enough to have children, even though there are health risks involved in having children at an older age."

http://www.altpenis.com/penis_news/2001031...trunc_sys.shtml

Same as first quote!

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2001/...10413083401.htm

Same as above!

Many more if you need them.

4 out of 10... must try harder.

So now we are back to your 'other reasons'.

[DamianMavis]

I don't see the attitude you claim from the women on the forum here but..... I am a traditional man, feminists would call me sexist. I truly believe that men and women have clearly defined roles and when you break away from those roles you have unhappy couples, maybe that is why we have such a high divorce rate in the west. There's nothing wrong with a strong woman, but she better hook up with an even stronger man or I think she will be unhappy. It's basic instinct, I've never seen a happy woman that was with a weak man. Constant fighting and disrespect is NOT normal and is a big sign that SOMEONES unhappy, which is what I see back in Canada ALL THE TIME with couples. Always when the man was too weak. I'm in trouble now!

Damian

----------------------------

I been meaning to ask.

Is your avatar your picture?

Yep, but its my costume, not the way I go shopping at the Emporium.

Damian

[farang prince]

When these old white guys start having kids with young Thai girls then that is all wrong.

Amongst other reasons that i wont mention here, older fathers are far more likely to have children with schizophrenia, Men aged 45 to 49 are twice as likely to have children with schizophrenia as men under the age of 25 who became fathers, while the risk triples for men over the age of 50.

http://www.schizophrenia.com/prevention/older.htm

For the offspring of older fathers (over age 50), the risk of schizophrenia is about 3%. That means that 97% of the offspring do not have schizophrenia.

http://www.fathersnetwork.org/1008.html?pa...d3296fc&s=0

There is evidence showing that older parents are more likely to have children with autism, indicating either age or some kind of external influence does play a role. "It’s an interesting hypothesis," Sebat said.

http://mentalhealth.about.com/od/schizophr...hizophrenia.htm

Nope, nada. Next?

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/200...fsr-1104101.php

The new findings, however, shouldn't deter older men from becoming fathers, says Dr. Harlap. "I don't think that older men should disqualify themselves from becoming parents. At any particular age, there is always a trade-off. Our study suggests that a man's progeny are going to be healthiest if he has his children during his early 20s. But we know that many men aren't ready for marriage and parenthood at that age. A man may want to wait until he is mature enough and economically stable enough to have children, even though there are health risks involved in having children at an older age."

http://www.altpenis.com/penis_news/2001031...trunc_sys.shtml

Same as first quote!

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2001/...10413083401.htm

Same as above!

Many more if you need them.

4 out of 10... must try harder.

So now we are back to your 'other reasons'.

I have a perfect reason why older Farangs should not have kids...you probably aren't going to be around to raise them. Of course, more than half the younger Farangs won't be around either...but that is by choice, not chance.

[meemiathai]

I hope you are aware that the high divorce rate in the West is not because of "who's the boss"; it's because of adultery, and the divorces are mostly initiated by women.

Wow! Sorry for being off topic. But this is new to me. Even men in the west stray? I thought it was just thailand, or asia?

Anyway back to topic.

[chiang mai]

I hate OP's who say provide the quantification for your 5% difference but I'm afraid that if you are going to quote it I'll have to ask for supporting evidence. It's not that I don't believe you it's just that I don't identify with that number as a scientific assessment, nor have I ever heard it before.

Chiang Mai,

You wrote :

Reading what some posters have written in this thread I could be led to believe that this is a 70%/50% issue and it clearly is not.

Do you have statistics ? ?

(Just by the way OP = Original Poster, I believe = you)

Yes I know, it was meant to be tongue in cheek.

[chiang mai]

"Male" and "female" are, in reality, just the words we use to label the ends of a very long x-y axis.

In between lies a whole range of individuals of the human species. Chiang Mai, if I were to feed you female hormones, you'd notice changes, but would you not still feel you were still "you" to a very large extent and % ?

Probably the best definition thus far. That being true it implies that we are all different? If that is the case is it not appropriate to divide the species by gender but rather by capabilities? That being true (if) it is even more inappropriate to attempt to give the same set of rights to all people of one gender?

I'm getting in the car now!!

Edited November 20, 2007 by chiang mai

[wudangtiger]

polly, it aint hysteria. you better be dam_n CAREFUL ABOUT WOT YOU SAY TO WOMEN IN WEST. women get big bucks just claiming harrassament by men.

if secretary wear low cut blouse you better just look and not compliment her..........lol. and not look too mut.

don't confuse "the west" with "the USA"

[ILovedogs]

How to answer the OP without making him look like a opportunistic idiot? Of course, since we can assume that he is a Western male, and that he has taken all that that culture has afforded him, he is now in the East looking for any benefits he can gain here. Well, of course, look towards the lack of equality between the sexes, and take your advantage there, as well as the financial advantage you probably have by coming from a richer country.

Any thing else we can help you with???? Maybe if you were born in this culture you would see certain responsibilities going along with your so virile manhood, not only the candystore aspect of your now coming to Asia. Maybe sex for sale for such cheap prices would not appeal to you quite so much as they do. We can all admit that we don't find rich Asian men marrying hookers or bar girls do we?? Why not? They are in the same playing fields. Why don't they go to Western countries and look for white hookers and bargirls to marry if the white skin makes the difference???

Okay, those Asian men make a line in the sand between girls they play with and girls they marry. Why??? Could it be for the same reason we don't marry hookers in London?

Or could Western men be under false assumptions about what Eastern women are going to provide for them?? They are so accomodating (or manipulative and dishonest) which is it?? Do you really like the feeling that someone agrees with everything, that they haven't had an opinion in 5 years about where you should eat, about what towels to buy, about the house you live in, about if your kid is a boy or girl, about what religion you decide to bring up the child, and then, Oh my GOD, one day, she is gone!! NO warning, no threats, just GONE!!!

Personally, I would much rather be told that my spouse likes green towels, and likes Indian food more than steak, and that she thinks our house is haunted by ghosts than just have nothing said and have her be gone one day.

I think some people think that they can pick and chose the best from their country and culture, and then move to Thailand, and pick just what they like here, and take that home with them too. They want what is good, but not what goes along with it. Of course. I would like to be rich but never work. I would like to have the best wife, but be the worst husband, how can I do that?? Oh, be a Western man, go to SE Asia and get a wife. THen talk shit about how horrible Western women were, and how great these women I don't understand are, do things I never would do for my Western girlfriends, like SUPPORT my child now that I am 60 years old ... I think that may be a good idea. (How many girls were pregnant that you said no way to before your Thai girl??? Could it be because in Thailand the cost could be less than your drinking budget??)

To the OP: I hope you have a daughter born and raised here, and I hope you don't mind the standards when they are applied to her. And when you are long gone, because I can just guess you might be rather old, she might just have to be a bar girl to pay for univerisity, or to support her mother, that you are no longer taking care of. And when that 60 year old guy from the UK is screwing her for 4000 baht a month, and then leaving her after a year because he is bored and can find hundreds of replacements just as good, will you be cheering on the Eastern ways that served you so well??

[DamianMavis]

NICE RANT! Awesome! Too bad it has little to do with the OP eh? Guess you were just waiting for a chance to say all that haha.

Damian

[jetjock]

To the OP: I hope you have a daughter born and raised here, and I hope you don't mind the standards when they are applied to her. And when you are long gone, because I can just guess you might be rather old, she might just have to be a bar girl to pay for univerisity, or to support her mother, that you are no longer taking care of. And when that 60 year old guy from the UK is screwing her for 4000 baht a month, and then leaving her after a year because he is bored and can find hundreds of replacements just as good, will you be cheering on the Eastern ways that served you so well??

(excerpted by jj fpr brevity)

I do not think prostitution or sugar daddies has anything more to do with Eastern culture in general than it has to Western Culture. It may be in greater numbers and more open and in your face in Thailand than in the west but it is still a part of both cultures. The most noticeable difference between cultures is in the cost. I can assure you that although there are many girls here in the US looking for a sugar daddy, you cannot be a sugar daddy here for anything near the equivalent of 4000 baht a month. As for prostitution, at legal brothels in Nevada here in the US, the girls are now getting between $1000. to $1500. per hour which is a far cry from the 1000 baht short time in LOS. All things considered it is easy to see why anyone who is into those things and connects prostitution and sugar daddies to Eastern culture(which I do not), would prefer what you call Eastern ways.

Edited November 20, 2007 by jetjock

[ILovedogs]

Damien,

Maybe it has everything to do with what the OP wrote, but you just cannot connect the dots. HaHaHa.

[TheDon]

To the OP: I hope you have a daughter born and raised here, and I hope you don't mind the standards when they are applied to her. And when you are long gone, because I can just guess you might be rather old, she might just have to be a bar girl to pay for univerisity, or to support her mother, that you are no longer taking care of. And when that 60 year old guy from the UK is screwing her for 4000 baht a month, and then leaving her after a year because he is bored and can find hundreds of replacements just as good, will you be cheering on the Eastern ways that served you so well??

(excerpted by jj fpr brevity)

I do not think prostitution or sugar daddies has anything more to do with Eastern culture in general than it has to Western Culture. It may be in greater numbers and more open and in your face in Thailand than in the west but it is still a part of both cultures. The most noticeable difference between cultures is in the cost. I can assure you that although there are many girls here in the US looking for a sugar daddy, you cannot be a sugar daddy here for anything near the equivalent of 4000 baht a month. As for prostitution, at legal brothels in Nevada here in the US, the girls are now getting between $1000. to $1500. per hour which is a far cry from the 1000 baht short time in LOS. All things considered it is easy to see why anyone who is into those things and connects prostitution and sugar daddies to Eastern culture(which I do not), would prefer what you call Eastern ways.

It seems you regard eastern culture as only Thai culture, your picking a rich western country vs a poor eastern country. I bet you can say the opposite if you done Japan vs Romania

[jetjock]

To the OP: I hope you have a daughter born and raised here, and I hope you don't mind the standards when they are applied to her. And when you are long gone, because I can just guess you might be rather old, she might just have to be a bar girl to pay for univerisity, or to support her mother, that you are no longer taking care of. And when that 60 year old guy from the UK is screwing her for 4000 baht a month, and then leaving her after a year because he is bored and can find hundreds of replacements just as good, will you be cheering on the Eastern ways that served you so well??

(excerpted by jj fpr brevity)

I do not think prostitution or sugar daddies has anything more to do with Eastern culture in general than it has to Western Culture. It may be in greater numbers and more open and in your face in Thailand than in the west but it is still a part of both cultures. The most noticeable difference between cultures is in the cost. I can assure you that although there are many girls here in the US looking for a sugar daddy, you cannot be a sugar daddy here for anything near the equivalent of 4000 baht a month. As for prostitution, at legal brothels in Nevada here in the US, the girls are now getting between $1000. to $1500. per hour which is a far cry from the 1000 baht short time in LOS. All things considered it is easy to see why anyone who is into those things and connects prostitution and sugar daddies to Eastern culture(which I do not), would prefer what you call Eastern ways.

It seems you regard eastern culture as only Thai culture, your picking a rich western country vs a poor eastern country. I bet you can say the opposite if you done Japan vs Romania

I agree with you totally, It is just that I do not know any sugar daddies in Japan or Romania nor do I know anyone who goes to prostitutes in Romania or Japan but I do know a lot of both in Thailand and the US. You do however help verify what I was saying that it really has nothing to do with Eastern versus Western culture but perhaps more to do with rich versus poor.

[DamianMavis]

Damien,

Maybe it has everything to do with what the OP wrote, but you just cannot connect the dots. HaHaHa.

Right..... because what he said infers he is married to a hooker? Yup missed those dots! Or are all falangs here associated with hookers in some way? Is that the assumption? You went on and on about his kids that he abandoned (what the <deleted>, where'd THAT come from?!) and all kinds of ridiculous STORIES that have nothing to do with the op, but he's a falang so might as well vent on him right? I mean, obviously they are all the same, go ahead and throw me in that group you think we all belong to, even though... I dont even date Thai women.

Damian

[trader1]

[

SO, Do you have more money than she does? Why would she be interested in you?? Your good looks or charm?

\

Both.

[Pakboong]

Men and women are not the same physically, but they are about 5% different, anatomically. They are equal intellectually. Emotional status is driven by culture.

I hate OP's who say provide the quantification for your 5% difference but I'm afraid that if you are going to quote it I'll have to ask for supporting evidence. It's not that I don't believe you it's just that I don't identify with that number as a scientific assessment, nor have I ever heard it before.

As for the second part, sorry PB but there is far more to it than just cultural drivers and I'ld be out of my depth if I tried to guess what they might be. Perhaps therefore you can explain whether that is opinion or fact. Sorry to be a pain but the differences between men and women are at the very heart of this debate hence I'm not comfortable accepting what might turn out to be throw away statements.

Anatomically: hands, feet, head, stomach, throat, ears, skin, eyelashes, chins, larynx, eyes, legs, arms, nose, hair, brain: 95% anatomically the same. Men generally have larger muscles, smaller breasts (but they have chests and nipples), more hair (but women have lots of hair), etc. Kidneys, livers, lungs, etc. Pretty much the same. You don't need a scientific survey of 29 anatomical scientists to understand that one. Same species.

Emotional: we all cry (even if secretly, or if a loved one dies), we have pain or joy or orgasms or friendship or or or...the list goes on. The behavior by which we exhibit the emotions is culturally conditioned.

Nah, I don't have no stinkin' quantification. I made up that 5% statistic on the sperm of the moment. Maybe the anatomical difference is 4.3% or 9.8644%, but you get the point that we're the same species, human. In spite of pop psychology, women aren't from Venus and we aren't from Mars. Simply in my biased opinion, I suspect most of the 'differences between the genders' are man-made and man-maintained, to keep their women (even their own daughters) subordinate and inferior. Of course, I'm often wrong, and macho White Aryan males may be the superior race, but I doubt it.

In 1995 I put the physical difference in men and women at slightly less than 12.5%. It actually measured at 12.34%. I arrived at that number by considering every major physical event in which men and women compteted against the exact standard. Every Olympic game in the 20 century, every major triathalon, etc...... At the turn of the 19th century, the difference was a little more than 16% using the same method. I felt the triathon gave the surest result as it meaured strength, stamina and will.

[sylviex]

Truly a brilliant rant from IloveDogs ! Good stuff ! You tell them !

Now, QUOTE (sylviex @ 2007-11-19 19:22:45) "Male" and "female" are, in reality, just the words we use to label the ends of a very long x-y axis.

In between lies a whole range of individuals of the human species. Chiang Mai, if I were to feed you female hormones, you'd notice changes, but would you not still feel you were still "you" to a very large extent and % ?

Probably the best definition thus far. That being true it implies that we are all different? If that is the case is it not appropriate to divide the species by gender but rather by capabilities? That being true (if) it is even more inappropriate to attempt to give the same set of rights to all people of one gender?

I'm getting in the car now!!

He's off in the dam_n car now and he's AGREEING with me !

Hmmm, but only sort-of.

You need to spell out these differing capabilities for me.

The differences I do see between men and women relate more to attitudes/tendencies than "capabilities". Capabilities seem fairly evely distributed between the genders, though I will confess to a huge non-understanding of physics, both theoretical and practical. But I have female friends who have a brilliant capacity for the "hard" sciences; some with bodies quite clearly a-flow with more estrogen than mine.

It could be that women notice that whatever % difference rather more than men do ... ?

And for Peace Blondie :

I am a Jew. Hath not a Jew eyes? hath not a Jew hands, organs, dimensions, senses, affections, passions? fed with the same food, hurt with the same weapons, subject to the same diseases, healed by the same means, warmed and cooled by the same winter and summer, as a Christian is? If you prick us, do we not bleed? If you tickle us, do we not laugh? if you poison us, do we not die? and if you wrong us, shall we not revenge?

Edited November 22, 2007 by sylviex