Americans: Are You Still Holding Out In Thailand ?

[LaoPo]

In Europe, weak dollar wrecks Americans' dreams

BERLIN (Reuters) - Andrew Curry once loved going out for dinner and drinks in Berlin, feeling far wealthier in the German capital than he did at home in the United States.

With the dollar now worth about 20 percent less than when he first arrived in 2005, the 30-year-old freelance journalist has a leaner lifestyle.

"I used to be able to brag that Berlin was really affordable but now my rent actually works out on par with Washington and New York. It's pretty terrible," said Curry, whose income is almost exclusively in the devaluing currency.

"I do everything to try to spend fewer euros now."

The weak dollar and recent tax laws are hurting many of the 350,000 or so Americans who live in the European Union, especially those who are paid in dollars.

It is being felt by students, professionals and pensioners in Berlin, Paris and London -- where the dollar is at a 26-year low against sterling and, according to a Reuters poll, expected to stay above $2 to the pound for the next six months.

For those who work in the creative industries and are often self-employed, the dollar's plunge to all-time lows against the euro has hit already fluctuating incomes and lifestyles.

"The dollar is having a terrible impact on us," said U.S. writer Eunice Lipton, a New Yorker who most of the year lives in Paris with her husband, artist Ken Aptekaar.

"We earn our money primarily in the States and then transfer it here. In the last few days we have transferred $15,000 which became 10,200 euros and that is killing us," she said.

Americans making dollar-euro transfers have seen the amount they receive shrink by about 50 percent since early 2000, when the currencies were at parity.

Like other Americans in Europe, Lipton says she feels the pain of the weak dollar most when entertaining friends or going out to dinner -- a popular pastime in the French capital.

"I can't complain because the Americans have had it round the other way for years. I'm in my 60s and I've been coming here since I was 19 and most of that time I've been able to eat in great restaurants for very little money," she said.

"In the past, I knew the exchange rate was great for us and I sort of gloated about it, without trying to be rude. Now our terms of reference are different. It is not amusing. I just hope it gets better."

EIN POOR BERLINER

About 50,000 Americans moved to Germany in 2006, according to the German statistics office -- many attracted by its art, music, history and relatively low cost of living, according to Americans living here.

Seen as a fashionable, central city with green open spaces, Berlin is prized for what many expatriates say is a better quality of life than at home.

Those who rely on dollars now need to keep a close eye on their wallets and are finding they might not be able to live so comfortably.

"My grants have basically been cut in half with the dollar-euro exchange rate," said assistant professor Mara Leichtman, who is renting a friend's apartment in Berlin -- and not shopping for clothes -- to cut down costs.

Adding to Americans' woes are laws passed last year which raised the amount some pay in U.S. tax.

Monique Luegger, a Berlin-based tax adviser with American clients, said that while the new tax laws mainly affect those in the higher income bracket, the ailing dollar is hurting people who worked in the U.S. but chose to retire in Europe.

"The exchange rate is really hurting pensioners who are trying to live in Europe on a dollar income. Not a week goes by when someone asks me what they can do about the exchange rate. But of course there is nothing I can do."

Expatriate groups argue that the combination of the weak dollar and new tax laws will make Europe a less attractive destination for Americans wanting to work overseas.

"If it gets much worse -- God forbid it would go up into the neighborhood of the pound -- I would have to leave or focus on getting European (income)," Curry said.

Some Americans plan to stick around, even if it means home-cooked meals and old clothes.

"I love being in Europe. I lived in a small university town in the U.S., so any excuse to be in Europe is still going to be a good one, even if it does hurt financially," Leichtman said.

"It's not going to make me go back to America," said Lipton in Paris.

"It won't stay this way. (President George W.) Bush hasn't cared at all about what the dollar is worth because he is so provincial. Americans are provincial in general and most of them don't even realize what the dollar is worth overseas."

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idU...0071119?sp=true

So, how is the situation in Thailand for you Americans or people paid in US $'s ? Are you able to survive ?

LaoPo

[koheesti]

In Europe, weak dollar wrecks Americans' dreams

BERLIN (Reuters) - Andrew Curry once loved going out for dinner and drinks in Berlin, feeling far wealthier in the German capital than he did at home in the United States.

With the dollar now worth about 20 percent less than when he first arrived in 2005, the 30-year-old freelance journalist has a leaner lifestyle.

Yeah, it sucks but's it's all relative. If he had lived in Germany in 2003 then the exchange rate in 2005 would have been bad. For example, I wasn't living in Thailand when it was 40+ baht to the dollar so I don't think the 33-34 we have now is bad.

Americans making dollar-euro transfers have seen the amount they receive shrink by about 50 percent since early 2000, when the currencies were at parity.

I was living in Europe at the time and the Euro didn't come into daily use in shops, etc until Jan 1, 2002. So it's not like Americans got their Euros and went shopping. They still had to change into Marks, Francs, etc.. The dollar started it's decline in early 2002.

"I can't complain because the Americans have had it round the other way for years. I'm in my 60s and I've been coming here since I was 19 and most of that time I've been able to eat in great restaurants for very little money," she said.

Exactly. Unfortunately she's probably too old to see it swing back the other way.

"It won't stay this way. (President George W.) Bush hasn't cared at all about what the dollar is worth because he is so provincial. Americans are provincial in general and most of them don't even realize what the dollar is worth overseas."

I was wondering when BDS would come into play. It's not the job of any US President to make my life as an expat cheap by keeping the dollar strong. A weaker dollar makes USA made goods cheaper abroad and increase exports. There aren't any regular people in the US losing sleep because the dollar doesn't buy as much in Paris or Berlin anymore.

So, how is the situation in Thailand for you Americans or people paid in US $'s ? Are you able to survive ?

LaoPo

As I said above, I wasn't here when the dollar was stronger so for me it's still cheap. The weakening dollar was a motivating factor for me leaving Europe this past summer after 10+ years. I saw $2 beers increase to over $3 (50% price increase) while the local currency price barely changed.

[Scott]

I don't know how it is for those getting paid in $ but it is nice getting paid in baht. I went to the states for three weeks and the favorable exchange rate in that direction sure made it a nicer holiday than previous years!

[Khun ?]

Europe has never been cheap but for short periods of time for Americans.

I seen it 1.20 DM to the dollar and also seen it 3.60 DM to the $. This was in a 10 year time frame.

Things are really cheap in the U.S. compared to many western countries. You can buy better vehicles

and electronics for the same price as 15 years ago if not cheaper. With most in the last 10 years making

30% to 50% more in wages many luxury items have been flat, no increases for better products.

Get what you need at home first to survive if things don't work out somewhere else.

You can buy housing with as good if not much better quality back home as you can get in Thailand now for similar prices and own a few acres of land to boot. The place won't even start falling apart in 5 years too!

Unless you call one of those garage stalls they sell for a condo in Thailand. Anything of other than a rectangle

box for a Condo and rooms the size of walk in closets sells at western prices anyway.

Quality of living overseas is far over rated unless you come from some rat hole metropolitan area in the western world. If you prefer a few 10 meters of privacy and not stuck in ungodly poverty, there is no place like home .

JMHO

Edited November 20, 2007 by Khun ?

[sbk]

I don't know how it is for those getting paid in $ but it is nice getting paid in baht. I went to the states for three weeks and the favorable exchange rate in that direction sure made it a nicer holiday than previous years!

Ditto. My husband and I are in the same boat. Plus, I came when it was 25 to the dollar, so I have no problem at all with a weakening dollar. I do feel bad for people on a fixed pension income but since you were asking how it affected me, its terrific. I don't feel quite so guilty going home now

[Naam]

I saw $2 beers increase to over $3 (50% price increase) while the local currency price barely changed.

a valid reason to make a run

[Naam]

I seen it 1.20 DM to the dollar and also seen it 3.60 DM to the $

but only in some of your wet dreams!

[Naam]

You can buy housing with as good if not much better quality back home as you can get in Thailand now for similar prices and own a few acres of land to boot. The place won't even start falling apart in 5 years too!

right you are! the average american cardboard house needs only a strong thunderstorm to make sure it doesn't last 5 years. and "back home" the IRS is waiting for you

[Naam]

You can buy better vehicles and electronics for the same price as 15 years ago if not cheaper.

thanks for the valuable hint as i buy new cars, tvs and stereo systems every 3 months. quite expensive in Thailand but much cheaper in Boise, Idaho or Little rock, Arkansas. do you have any suggestion where to i could move next week? how about Duluth, Minnesota where i won't need airconditioning for months to come? what might be the turkey prices as thanksgiving is knocking at the door?

[sbk]

Feeling a tad testy today Naam?

[naka]

Europe has never been cheap but for short periods of time for Americans.

I seen it 1.20 DM to the dollar and also seen it 3.60 DM to the $. This was in a 10 year time frame.

Things are really cheap in the U.S. compared to many western countries. You can buy better vehicles

and electronics for the same price as 15 years ago if not cheaper. With most in the last 10 years making

30% to 50% more in wages many luxury items have been flat, no increases for better products.

Get what you need at home first to survive if things don't work out somewhere else.

You can buy housing with as good if not much better quality back home as you can get in Thailand now for similar prices and own a few acres of land to boot. The place won't even start falling apart in 5 years too!

Unless you call one of those garage stalls they sell for a condo in Thailand. Anything of other than a rectangle

box for a Condo and rooms the size of walk in closets sells at western prices anyway.

Quality of living overseas is far over rated unless you come from some rat hole metropolitan area in the western world. If you prefer a few 10 meters of privacy and not stuck in ungodly poverty, there is no place like home .

JMHO

Feeling a tad testy today Naam?

But you gotta admit sbk, this is one seriously dumb post.

Naka.

[GuestHouse]

The situation Americans find themselves in with respect to exchange rates is nothing if not a cautionary tale to us all - or at least to any foreigner planning to retire or retired in Thailand.

What happens to the US dollar can and almost certainly will happen to other currencies over time. I wonder how many Brits are forgetting they enjoy such a favourable exchange rate on their pound.

If you are planning to retire in Thailand and at the same time servicing a loan in Thailand then you are taking a huge risk - So let's learn the lesson (but we will not).

There is some good news here.

All those hotels and resorts that changed their prices to dollars when the Bht hit the fans are also loosing out on the exchange rate - Will they change to GBP or Euros I wonder?

[torrenova]

The guys it is hurting in LOS are the ones who have come here only in the last 10 years and moreover the ones who arrived when the $ was around Bt43/44. These people never knew $1 = Bt25 or even the crisis of 1997 and they wallowed in $ rates at over Bt40. Now they are hurting because they were over exchanged for those years. A similar feeling would occur for £ earners if the rate fell to 60 which was historically a very high rate. The trouble is that they never saw 40 to the £ and they now think of it at 70.

[qualtrough]

There aren't any regular people in the US losing sleep because the dollar doesn't buy as much in Paris or Berlin anymore.

There should be. A weak dollar along with the higher cost of oil will eventually raise the price of almost everything in the US due to increased transport costs, increased raw material costs, etc. and etc. It is not BDS (right wing whack job speak for "Bush Derangment Syndrome"] to point out that Bush has presided over an almost unmitigated string of economic and social disasters since taking office-it is just a fact.

[qualtrough]

Europe has never been cheap but for short periods of time for Americans.

Depends on your time frame. I lived in Germany and Switzerland between 68-71 at a time when there were 4 marks to the dollar and just slightly less to the Swiss franc. Europe was a downright bargain. Spain and Portugal were such bargains it was almost as if travel there was free. During the late 50s and 60s there was even a very popular travel book, "Europe on $5 dollars a day", meaning hotel and meals. $5 a day! Europe started getting expensive for Americans in the 70s and it hasn't looked back.

[naka]

There aren't any regular people in the US losing sleep because the dollar doesn't buy as much in Paris or Berlin anymore.

There should be. A weak dollar along with the higher cost of oil will eventually raise the price of almost everything in the US due to increased transport costs, increased raw material costs, etc. and etc. It is not BDS (right wing whack job speak for "Bush Derangment Syndrome"] to point out that Bush has presided over an almost unmitigated string of economic and social disasters since taking office-it is just a fact.

Good point ... The price of oil dictates the price of ... Well, just about everything

Naka.

[midas]

Europe has never been cheap but for short periods of time for Americans.

I seen it 1.20 DM to the dollar and also seen it 3.60 DM to the $. This was in a 10 year time frame.

Things are really cheap in the U.S. compared to many western countries. You can buy better vehicles

and electronics for the same price as 15 years ago if not cheaper. With most in the last 10 years making

30% to 50% more in wages many luxury items have been flat, no increases for better products.

Get what you need at home first to survive if things don't work out somewhere else.

You can buy housing with as good if not much better quality back home as you can get in Thailand now for similar prices and own a few acres of land to boot. The place won't even start falling apart in 5 years too!

Unless you call one of those garage stalls they sell for a condo in Thailand. Anything of other than a rectangle

box for a Condo and rooms the size of walk in closets sells at western prices anyway.

Quality of living overseas is far over rated unless you come from some rat hole metropolitan area in the western world. If you prefer a few 10 meters of privacy and not stuck in ungodly poverty, there is no place like home .

JMHO

Feeling a tad testy today Naam?

But you gotta admit sbk, this is one seriously dumb post.

Naka.

Naka ! Some of us actually find this subject interesting !

I actually feel tired of you inane criticisms of other people's postings

and perhaps if you have never have anything positive to contribute to

these threads other than to always say how uninteresting they are to you

- i would like to suggest the same response that King Carlos

of Spain recently gave to Hugo Chavez which is now a catchphrase !

[qualtrough]

If there was any doubt that Americans living at home should be concerned about a weak dollar this article from Bloomberg should erase that. Grim reading for Americans, save possible the 24% or so who still support Bush:

Arabs' Dollar Losses Increase Pressure to Sever Pegs (Update4)

By Matthew Brown and Aaron Pan

Nov. 19 (Bloomberg) -- When central bankers in the Middle East say they have no plans to end their fixed exchange rates to the dollar, the currency market hears the opposite.

[snip]

The U.S. Dollar Index, which measures its performance against six trading partners, has fallen 9.4 percent this year to a record low. The dollar rose 0.2 percent today to $1.4633 to the euro and fell 0.6 percent to 110.42 yen.

The fact that the link is being debated at all is a reflection of the weakening dollar and the decline of U.S. political and economic dominance. The currency accounted for 64.8 percent of world reserves at the end of June, down from 72.6 percent in 2001, according to the International Monetary Fund in Washington.

Alexander the Great

Abandoning the peg would risk driving prices higher for Americans, the biggest oil consumers. Oil rose 55 percent this year and was at $94.66 a barrel in New York today. It hit a record high of $98.62 on Nov. 7.

Reducing their dependence would also mark the increased wealth and power of oil producers. The GCC has never had an independent monetary policy. Before pegging currencies to the U.S., much of the region was under British influence and used the gulf rupee issued by the Reserve Bank of India and linked to the British pound. The U.A.E. dirham inherited its name from the Greek drachma, introduced in the Middle East in the third century B.C. by Alexander the Great.

The GCC hasn't been given new incentives to preserve fixed rates other than statements by Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson that the U.S. supports a ``strong dollar.'' The government hasn't intervened in the market to influence exchange rates since September 2003, the Federal Reserve Bank of New York said in a quarterly report to Congress on Nov. 8.

`A Dangerous Game'

U.S. policy makers are ``playing a dangerous game by allowing the dollar to depreciate so much,'' said Phil McHugh, a trader at Currencies Direct Ltd., an investment management company in London that oversees $2 billion. GCC officials would make ``a big statement'' if they revalue, he said.

If the GCC weakens its ties, oil producers will have less reason to recycle their revenue into dollar assets. OPEC members increased their holdings of Treasuries by 14 percent this year through September to $125.7 billion, Treasury data show.

[snip]

Last Updated: November 19, 2007 05:40 EST

Edited November 20, 2007 by qualtrough

[zink]

The U.S. Dollar Index, which measures its performance against six trading partners, has fallen 9.4 percent this year to a record low. The dollar rose 0.2 percent today to $1.4633 to the euro and fell 0.6 percent to 110.42 yen.

EURUSD is now 1.4790

Nice movement today: http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=EURUSD=X&a...&q=l&c=

From 1.4660 to 1.4790 in 4 hours.

[LaoPo]

The U.S. Dollar Index, which measures its performance against six trading partners, has fallen 9.4 percent this year to a record low. The dollar rose 0.2 percent today to $1.4633 to the euro and fell 0.6 percent to 110.42 yen.

EURUSD is now 1.4790

Nice movement today: http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=EURUSD=X&a...&q=l&c=

From 1.4660 to 1.4790 in 4 hours.

Some may think a low Dollar versus strong Euro is nice but it's speculation at a deepening housing crisis in the US at the moment and thus speculating that the FED is forced to lower the rates again.

For some of the Euro-lovers (I'm one) it's good news but for the long term it's not good at all.

Dollar Slides to Record Low Against Euro Before Housing Data

Nov. 20 (Bloomberg) -- The dollar fell to a record low against the euro and the Swiss franc on speculation a U.S. government report will show a deepening property slump, prompting the Federal Reserve to lower interest rates.

The U.S. currency declined as economists forecast Commerce Department data today will show U.S. housing starts slipped to a 14-year low in October, prompting traders to raise bets the Federal Reserve will cut interest rates by December. The dollar also slid on speculation a group of six Arab nations will change their fixed exchange rates to the U.S. currency. The yen declined versus all 16 of the major currencies as European stocks rose.

``Credit and housing difficulties are continuing to rumble on,'' said Adam Cole, senior currency strategist at RBC Capital Markets Ltd. in London. ``There's more bad news in the pipeline, raising speculation the Fed is going to cut rates again.''

continues here:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=news

LaoPo

[Neeranam]

When I came here in 1992 the $ was 25 baht and the pound 37.

Isn't it great now?

Stop bloody moaning, it's only money.

[JetsetBkk]

The trouble is that they never saw 40 to the £ and they now think of it at 70.

Errr... 'cause that's what it is.

Naka ! Some of us actually find this subject interesting !

I actually feel tired of you inane criticisms of other people's postings

and perhaps if you have never have anything positive to contribute to

these threads other than to always say how uninteresting they are to you

- i would like to suggest the same response that King Carlos

of Spain recently gave to Hugo Chavez which is now a catchphrase !

Hmm, sounds like someone has some financial worries.

[koheesti]

There aren't any regular people in the US losing sleep because the dollar doesn't buy as much in Paris or Berlin anymore.

There should be. A weak dollar along with the higher cost of oil will eventually raise the price of almost everything in the US due to increased transport costs, increased raw material costs, etc. and etc. It is not BDS (right wing whack job speak for "Bush Derangment Syndrome"] to point out that Bush has presided over an almost unmitigated string of economic and social disasters since taking office-it is just a fact.

The facts on the US economy - which aren't the point of this thread - are different from what you own serious case of BDS (happy to hear you know you suffer from it, that's halfway to the cure) makes you believe so I won't go back and forth with you here about it. BUT, if you ever make it to Samui, let me know and we can discuss in detail over a few beers - I'll treat with my converted weak dollars.

[lannarebirth]

You know, just about every major country has come out to say they're going to sell or buy less $USD denominated financial instruments, but doesn't anyone wonder why UST's have been rallying for so long?

http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=TLT&p...id=p05692284002

[PeaceBlondie]

When I came here in the first half of 2003, the baht was about 42 to the dollar, and I just knew I could make 25,000 baht per month teaching English. That teaching job equated to US$600 per month, ten months per year, minus 3 months' salary to go back and get a new B visa without a work permit. Now I could earn 35,000 per month, which is $1,034, twelve months per year, but it's much better to just collect all three pensions.

No, it won't hurt me unless the dollar drops to 25 baht, at which time it would help tip the balance to Mexico, which is effectively pegged to the dollar. I know several US expats who would probably leave if it went to 30 baht to the dollar.

[Spee]

The weak dollar and recent tax laws are hurting many of the 350,000 or so Americans who live in the European Union, especially those who are paid in dollars.

So, how is the situation in Thailand for you Americans or people paid in US $'s ? Are you able to survive ?

I think it's safe to assume that the large majority of Americans living overseas are doing so of their own free will and decision. If currency fluctuations weren't factored in to that decision, then maybe it is a decision to be reconsidered. Ultimately, who is to blame anyway, the individual or government policies or the currency markets?

Personally, I get paid in dollars and am impacted by fluctuations in the pound and the baht. Over the past 3-4 years, these currencies have fluctuated between about 1.65-2.13 and 31-42 respectively. So be it. As the saying goes, "If you wanna run with the big dogs, then you gotta sh*t with 'em too." It's all part of the life of an expat. From an employment standpoint, it is fairly simple to negotiate a decent enough expat deal to offset these kinds of costs anyway (either through direct compensation or perk or both).

[qualtrough]

There aren't any regular people in the US losing sleep because the dollar doesn't buy as much in Paris or Berlin anymore.

There should be. A weak dollar along with the higher cost of oil will eventually raise the price of almost everything in the US due to increased transport costs, increased raw material costs, etc. and etc. It is not BDS (right wing whack job speak for "Bush Derangment Syndrome"] to point out that Bush has presided over an almost unmitigated string of economic and social disasters since taking office-it is just a fact.

The facts on the US economy - which aren't the point of this thread - are different from what you own serious case of BDS (happy to hear you know you suffer from it, that's halfway to the cure) makes you believe so I won't go back and forth with you here about it. BUT, if you ever make it to Samui, let me know and we can discuss in detail over a few beers - I'll treat with my converted weak dollars.

Been there, no need to come back since they built the airport, but thanks just the same. Sounds like you have been drinking the Kool-Aid anyway, not beer!

[zorro1]

Europe has never been cheap but for short periods of time for Americans.

I seen it 1.20 DM to the dollar and also seen it 3.60 DM to the $. This was in a 10 year time frame.

Things are really cheap in the U.S. compared to many western countries. You can buy better vehicles

and electronics for the same price as 15 years ago if not cheaper. With most in the last 10 years making

30% to 50% more in wages many luxury items have been flat, no increases for better products.

Get what you need at home first to survive if things don't work out somewhere else.

You can buy housing with as good if not much better quality back home as you can get in Thailand now for similar prices and own a few acres of land to boot. The place won't even start falling apart in 5 years too!

Unless you call one of those garage stalls they sell for a condo in Thailand. Anything of other than a rectangle

box for a Condo and rooms the size of walk in closets sells at western prices anyway.

Quality of living overseas is far over rated unless you come from some rat hole metropolitan area in the western world. If you prefer a few 10 meters of privacy and not stuck in ungodly poverty, there is no place like home .

JMHO

Really? what would one of those garage stalls in NYC or any other major cosmopolitan city in USA cost? At least double or triple if your comparing to central sukhumvit BKK

[farang prince]

As I have mentioned in the past (and got flamed for it), I live very comfortably in Bkk on my retirement income. Even if the exchange rate was at 25/1, I'd still be fine. It's the six months I live in Santa Fe that are getting very expensive. Right now we are paying $3.14 a gallon for gas here and food costs have increased about 10%, no doubt because of the increased transportation costs.

My biggest concern is that I think the U.S. is headed for a serious recession. If that happens, there might be thousands more Americans trying to flee to less expensive places to live. Are you prepared for Americans begging for bahts on Sukhumvit street corners?

[bonviveur]

The weaker dollar have push my plans of moving to LOS by a year or two.