Retirement Visa --announcement From Pattaya Mail

[Haydn]

Immigration announces new requirements for retirement visas

Sawittree Namwiwatsuk

The Immigration authorities have issued new requirements for foreigners wishing to apply for a retirement visa, including the need to have an ATM card and a credit card.

Pol Lt. Samruay Saman, deputy inspector at Pattaya Immigration announced the new rules on November 12.

Pol. Lt. Samruay Saman, deputy inspector at Pattaya Immigration

Applicants using visa application form TM 7 have to enclose their passport, a 4 x 6 cm photograph, 1,900 baht fee, proof of income (certificate of bank deposit and bank book savings account, or a fixed account for at least the last three months), and proof of an appropriate amount of money from abroad through the bank in a certain period of time, such as a certificate of transfer from abroad or copy of a banking transfer order.

In the event of having any dependents such as a husband, a wife or children, then the relationship certificate approval with Thai translation certified by the embassy or consulate must be presented.

The authorities reserve the right to ask for any additional necessary documents in the event of requiring a copy of an ATM and credit card statement, a bank statement, a bank book, and a certificate of pension from the embassy in the event the source of such an amount cannot be checked.

Regulations for taking into consideration a foreign applicant’s extension for staying in Thailand require that the foreigner be more than 50 years old, and not forbidden to enter into the kingdom. The foreigner must have financial proof of a deposited amount of no less than 800,000 baht, or a monthly income of no less than 65,000 baht, or an annual income of no less than 800,000 baht in total.

For more information please visit www.immigration.go.th

[mopenyang]

This should be a lively thread.

[gzu88bv]

The link at the end is as good as the message itself.... at least for me.

Have a nice Loy Krathong.

[Jingthing]

I don't see what is new. Sounds like the same same to me.

[rainman]

A credit card? To have a credit card in Thailand, 99.9999% of the time you need a work permit, right? And to have a work permit, you need a job? But you can't work while retired, right? Or you'll lose your pension.

I was going to say something else, but I'll keep it to myself...

[wpcoe]

I don't see what is new. Sounds like the same same to me.

Except the parts in red:

"Applicants using visa application form TM 7 have to enclose their passport, a 4 x 6 cm photograph, 1,900 baht fee, proof of income (certificate of bank deposit and bank book savings account, or a fixed account for at least the last three months), and proof of an appropriate amount of money from abroad through the bank in a certain period of time,

such as a certificate of transfer from abroad or copy of a banking transfer order.

In the event of having any dependents such as a husband, a wife or children, then the relationship certificate approval with Thai translation certified by the embassy or consulate must be presented.

The authorities reserve the right to ask for any additional necessary documents in the event of

requiring a copy of an ATM and credit card

statement

, a bank statement, a bank book, and a certificate of pension from the embassy in the event the source of such an amount cannot be checked."

In the past Jomtien Immigrations wasn't requiring the document proving the money was transferred from abroad, although there had been reports that it would be required from time to time at Suan Phlu.

Taking the article literally, there is no mention of copying an ATM/credit card, only the mention of the statement. But then, <deleted> would an "ATM statement" be?

[Jingthing]

I still say NOTHING NEW. These are extra things they can ask if they are suspicious about your specific application. I think it is mostly aimed at people who they think (rightly or wrongly) are lying about their income to their embassies.

[ProThaiExpat]

Here we go again. At this point, those of us who have ridden this roller coaster before, will be waiting for confirmation from the actual experiences of other retirees who have been asked for ATM or credit cards from other immigration offices before we, who don't live in Pattaya, give this announcement any credence.

[Guderian]

and proof of an appropriate amount of money from abroad through the bank

in a certain period of time

, such as a certificate of transfer from abroad or copy of a banking transfer order.

I wonder what constitutes a "certain period of time"? Up to the discretion of the Immigration Officer, I suppose.

I opened the link mentioned (www.immigration.go.th), and it seems like we all have to learn to read Thai now.

(I'm ashamed to admit that after 3 years of living here, my Thai is still very basic.)

[lopburi3]

Top right corner is the switch to English.

[pontious]

Even if you click'English' there is nothing updated- you still need a medical!

[Smokin Joe]

I haven't seen another possibility for the extra requirements in Pattaya mentioned yet. If the local office is too busy a few additional BS requirements may convince some applicants to use other offices. Bangkok is only a couple of hours away, and if you have to get your income statement stamped by the MFA and dislike the idea of giving copies of CC info out, using the Bangkok Immigration Office may be a more palatable option for some. Less applicants = less work.

[chicowoodduck]

I haven't seen another possibility for the extra requirements in Pattaya mentioned yet. If the local office is too busy a few additional BS requirements may convince some applicants to use other offices. Bangkok is only a couple of hours away, and if you have to get your income statement stamped by the MFA and dislike the idea of giving copies of CC info out, using the Bangkok Immigration Office may be a more palatable option for some. Less applicants = less work.

I'll drink to that idea and drive to BKK too!

[Jingthing]

My understanding is that we are now required to use our nearest office to apply for extensions, so resident Pattaya applicants would not be accepted in Bangkok.

[moe666]

This should get all of the doom and gloomers in a uproar.

[PhilHarries]

Nothing bothers me much except fo the credit card statement. What if you don't have a credit card? I guess I can see the point of it, being that they want to make sure your 800,000 Baht is yours and not taken out on a CC. But what's to stop you having two or more CC's? Also why would they worry about nay of your debt as long as they were outside Thailand?

Oh well, it's a while before I will have to contemplate the retirement visa hurdle.

Welcome to the land of smoke and mirrors.

[lopburi3]

1. There is no requirement to have your income statement stamped by the MFA.

2. There is no requirement for the ATM/Credit Card from my reading - paper says it is required to grab your attention - immigration says it may be asked for as part of "additional" paperwork to determine source of funds. Believe those without these items but having other items (such as proof of funds transfer/atm receipts,passbook showing normal activity, etc.) will not have a problem in Jomtien.

[Jingthing]

I was recently told at Jomtien that if using the 800K baht in the bank to qualify, you do NOT need to have the money in the bank for three months prior to extension (except for the FIRST extension). Topping up the account the day before is OK. There is nothing in this typically vague announcement to confirm or deny that info.

This is not a trivial detail for a lot of people. Why am I not surprised that immigration continues to be so vague about it in official proclamations?

Edited November 24, 2007 by Jingthing

[luumak]

These people honestly do not have a clue. Really, really.

A credit card proves absolutely nothing except a bank is willing to issue you xxxxx.xx credit. You can have really bad credit and still have a card. Millions do in the USA.

Further, if the Thai govt 'taps' on that credit (queries it as a check) that can damage your credit.

You can have a credit card and have NO money in the bank. You can have tens of millions and still only have a debit card.

As Thailand continues you rethink and expand its ever growing arsenal against Westerners living here it really should address it in some sort of logical, competent manner. The ignornace reflects poorly on the nation. Thailand really must push to have educated bureaucrats running the machine.

What I find astounding is that if the same criteria were to be applied for Thai's how many would be able to live in their own country? Basically, none. Now, I know this is apples and oranges but there is a certain truth to the over the top financial requirements and the daily changes in documentation not to mention what may (not) be needed at the local level. Its really Kafkaesque at this point.

I can't wait for the election and the business law to be decided :-)

[Jingthing]

I think the gist of the announcement is that if they want to they can ask for additional documentation. This to my view constitutes nothing new. Its selling papers though ...

Edited November 24, 2007 by Jingthing

[lopburi3]

I was recently told at Jomtien that if using the 800K baht in the bank to qualify, you do NOT need to have the money in the bank for three months prior to extension (except for the FIRST extension).

Order 606/2006 says three months for 800k deposit method.

(3) Having evidence showing the

monthly income not less than

65,000 Baht or,

(4) Having the records of saving

money in the latest 3 months of

account book of any Bank in

Thailand not less than 800,000

Baht or,

(5) Having annual income

combined with the saving

money in the Bank not less than

800,000 Baht from on the date

submitting the application

[Jingthing]

Lopburi,

Sorry, but that is not a PRECISE rule. It is vague. It does not say that the account cannout go one baht under 800K during the three months prior to extension meeting. It says SAVING MONEY. Obviously, the 800K is needed at the day of the meeting. I was told very clearly at Jomtien for subsequent extensions the top up can be the day before. Others, PLEASE ASK AND REPORT. As we know, different offices, different enforcement interpretations.

Edited November 24, 2007 by Jingthing

[lopburi3]

What is unclear about "not less than 800,000

Baht"?

[Jingthing]

What is unclear about "not less than 800,000

Baht"?

What is unclear if you read it carefully is whether or not the full 800K needs to be there for the entire three month period prior to the meeting, or whether showing a pattern of having money in the bank before and topping up to 800K will be accepted. The exact CONNECTION between saving money and the 800K is not written clearly enough. I am not making up what I was told by the officer: the rule of having the entire 800K three months before only enforced on FIRST TIME extensions.

For that written rule to fully convey Lopburi's interpretation with no fudge, it really needs an additional clause spelling out that the entire 800K baht must be in the account every day prior to the meeting for three months. I understand Lopburi's reading of it and I think that is the usual reading of it, but I see a loophole in the language in the lack of a solid connection between 800K baht and THREE MONTHS. The link in the text as written could just as easily be made between SAVING and three months. This isn't even getting into the fact that it is a translated rule.

Edited November 24, 2007 by Jingthing

[Maestro]

...but I see a loophole in the...

That’s only an English translation. If you want to talk about loopholes you must look at the original Thai text, which you can find here. Paragraph 7.21 is what you want.

--

Maestro

[Jingthing]

...but I see a loophole in the...

That’s only an English translation. If you want to talk about loopholes you must look at the original Thai text, which you can find here. Paragraph 7.21 is what you want.

--

Maestro

Exactly. So what matters is the office's interpretation and enforcement of the THAI rules. I am saying in Jomtien they do not see it the way Lopburi is reading the English rule.

[sbk]

Please note, to those who keep bringing up the idea that they are asking for copies of credit cards, the statement does not ask for a copy of a credit card or bank card:

the event of requiring a copy of an ATM and credit card statement,

[Maestro]

...in Jomtien they do not see it the way Lopburi is reading the English rule.

Instead, the Jomtien immigration officers are reading things that are not printed there, like “copy of ATM card of credit card statement”. Go figure.

Anyway, I guess nobody is complaining that at present he does not need to have 800k in the bank for a full three months before a repeat application at Jomtien. How they will handle it next week or next month is anybody’s guess, of course.

One interpretation, reported in another thread and based on the answer the Jomtien immigration office gave to the American embassy, is that when an applicant’s money has not been in the bank for the full three months, immigration wants the ATM or credit card documentation, ie immigration is bending the rules to help applicants. Time will tell how this plays out.

--

Maestro

[Jingthing]

My officer said HE DID NOT EVEN LOOK at the dates.

This is why I am asking future applicants to ask the question, and report back here, even if they are complying with this "rule" that might not be a real rule in real life at Jomtien.

Edited November 24, 2007 by Jingthing

[007]

Immigration announces new requirements for retirement visas...

The authorities reserve the right to ask for any additional necessary documents in the event of requiring a copy of an ATM and credit card statement

I also read it as a copy of an ATM and/or credit card

statement

, and not a copy of the card itself.

Edited November 24, 2007 by 7