Taking On Uk Clients As A Us Freelancer

[Khun ?]

Seems easy to me. You are under the tax jurisdiction of where you are physically performing such duties.

Thailand I am sure would be one of the places that you are earning your income to include the W-2

work also. As you are overseas doing your work ( physical presence) you should fill out a 2555 U.S. tax form and

claim it as foreign earned income. The thais legally are owed taxes for all your income, which may be deducted

from your U.S. tax amount also ( maybe). You may and most likely do owe Self employed taxes also ( FICA ) 15.3%.

for the work you do on your own, if they pay the money to a Thai bank account about the only way

the IRS would know is if you told them or later on sent large amounts of money into the U.S.

They may wonder where it come from, even gifts over a certain amount is taxable for U.S. citizens.

Then again maybe you loaned someone money and just returning it to your U.S. bank account, be prepaired to show

where you removed it from your U.S. bank account or claimed it as foreign earned income.

Regardless of what the company you work for in the U.S. tells you, your taxes are between you and the U.S. gov.

They cannot dictate what is or is not taxable as foreign earned income. It is nice of them to let you do your work out of the office and U.S.you have $85.7K tax free. Being your employer is in The U.S. you still have to pay ( FICA) for the money earned from them. Make a employee contract with the British company as FICA is not owed for income from foreign companies outside the U.S. unless you do not mind paying the self employed taxes or just don't claim it.

You may be right and The thais may determine that your work being done is not taxable by them. Good for you if

they do, but as someone else stated they may not understand, you are doing the work on your computer in their country and have all rights to tax you as such.

They don't have 26,000 pages in the U.S. tax code for nothing!

http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc854.html

JMHO

Edited January 13, 2008 by Khun ?

[Khun ?]

Girlx- as a W2 employee, do you claim the foreign income exemption in the US? If not, I am pretty much on your side wrt the balance of legality and practicality. Your consulting income though really should be done as a Thai entity, as you acknowledge your independent situation. Some tax man, somewhere needs to get paid. Amity sole proprietorship would be the logical way to go.

Thanks to the geniuses in HR at my old company being paranoid about workers comp issues, I had transitioned to 1099 status and tripled my pay. At the time, I stayed "casual" in LOS, partly because I was back and forth so often I wasn't really sure where to call my home. Now I'm just going for amity to reduce the hassle factor long term...

A 1099 is for self employed and requires you to pay the FICA by yourself instead of sharing the cost with your employer.

Sounds like yo will not qualify for the overseas earned income of 330 days outside the U.S so will have to pay

federal taxes also. If Thailand has a tax treaty with the U.S. you may only have to pay the difference between the thai tax rate and U.S. tax rate.

[LivinLOS]

Ohh God here we go again.. GirlX has been told over and over how to legalize herself pretty cheaply here but simply refuses to believe it..

In this case she would invoice from her Thai company.. To the UK entity.. They would pay it (either with Thai VAT or VAT free depending on product service) and she would pay Thai taxes on it as she is in Thailand while working.. She would then have a work permit.. Once again its all perfectly clear but doesnt fit her plans.. So just work illegally, break the law, pay not taxes but at least be quiet about it on Thai Visa ??

If you're earning income in the UK the Inland Revenue will want a slice of the pie.

Not true at all for a non UK national for work performed outside of the UK.

There are some exceptions to this rule for UK domicled non UK nationals or 'normally domiciled' but none I can see that in any way fits GirlX's situation.

[LivinLOS]

Seems you continue to try to burn the candle at both ends. Tsk..Tsk..! No work permit?, no Thai Taxes? Many of us have chosen the proper route and done other than you.

usual suspects... again, mouse, my situation is different from yours. as i remember, you are consulting, as your own business. you have a family and a house and plans to live/retire in thailand. you have gone the correct path for your situation. setting up a treaty of amity company would be ridiculous for me as i am an employee (not a consultant) of a company that is located in the US and does not have offices in thailand. i do occasionally take on individual projects for other companies (see OP), but am a w2 employee of my full time job. this is a gray area which is not covered by current visa or labor laws, no matter how vehemently you guys say otherwise. i am happy to pay taxes to thailand, and will do so once they have figured out how to handle a situation like mine and respond to my inquiries. however, i really don't care one way or the other if they "come after me", not that they ever would or could justify doing so ... i am very flexible and mobile, another reason NOT to set up a Thai company. i definitely have no intention of staying in Thailand forever or maybe even through the next year. i am tired of several aspects of this country, not least of which are self righteous and small minded expats. and Thailand can only benefit from my spending money in their country until i decide to do otherwise.

If you are only an employee of a US company then who is paying you for this UK work ?? See your actually a freelance consultant who must have thier own legal entity..

Of course if you ONLY work for the US company they are quite within thier rights to set up a Thai branch office or other corporate structure to employ you.. They are your employer after all and must do that to legalize your employment while you are within Thailand. You ARE NOT an employee under Thai law, and as you are within Thailand you cannot apply US employment law to yourself.. You are under the law of the country you are in !!!

But you cannot be a 'full time employee' who also works for other companies occasionally.. Thats simply a freelancer who has an employment tax record with one of thier clients.

There is nothing grey about these laws.. You have heard a hundred times why its illegal and how to cheaply fix it.. Your the only one who calls it grey !! FACT :: If you sit in Thailand performing work, you need a work permit.. Your route to getting one is obvious but has some slight costs.

Edited January 14, 2008 by LivinLOS

[LivinLOS]

Girlx- as a W2 employee, do you claim the foreign income exemption in the US? If not, I am pretty much on your side wrt the balance of legality and practicality. Your consulting income though really should be done as a Thai entity, as you acknowledge your independent situation. Some tax man, somewhere needs to get paid. Amity sole proprietorship would be the logical way to go.

Thanks to the geniuses in HR at my old company being paranoid about workers comp issues, I had transitioned to 1099 status and tripled my pay. At the time, I stayed "casual" in LOS, partly because I was back and forth so often I wasn't really sure where to call my home. Now I'm just going for amity to reduce the hassle factor long term...

By 'casual' I take it you mean 'illegal' ??

[LivinLOS]

i am an american IT freelancer who lives in thailand, with several stateside clients who pay me via direct deposit in US$ to my account in NY.

now i have an opportunity to take on a client who is in the UK and who wants to pay me in euros via paypal. how can i do this legally? my friend suggested setting up a company in the UK, but a google search has gotten me no closer to figuring out what is entailed in that for a US citizen. can anyone give any advice?

I am a Brit who works in more or less the same industry with clients in many countries - I am neither resident nor domiciled in the UK and I live in Thailand.

I have used a Hong Kong based "umbrella" company for all my invoicing and funds transfer purposes for the past fifteen years - it's a legit company that is run by a Big 6 firm and it's very convenient, reliable and cost effective. PM me if you would like details.

And that HK umbrella company can obtain you a Thai work permit so you can legally work while in Thailand ??

I have similar umbrella companies (seychelles / BVI / etc) But none can legalize me working in Thailand only help with invoicing etc.

[chiang mai]

i am an american IT freelancer who lives in thailand, with several stateside clients who pay me via direct deposit in US$ to my account in NY.

now i have an opportunity to take on a client who is in the UK and who wants to pay me in euros via paypal. how can i do this legally? my friend suggested setting up a company in the UK, but a google search has gotten me no closer to figuring out what is entailed in that for a US citizen. can anyone give any advice?

I am a Brit who works in more or less the same industry with clients in many countries - I am neither resident nor domiciled in the UK and I live in Thailand.

I have used a Hong Kong based "umbrella" company for all my invoicing and funds transfer purposes for the past fifteen years - it's a legit company that is run by a Big 6 firm and it's very convenient, reliable and cost effective. PM me if you would like details.

And that HK umbrella company can obtain you a Thai work permit so you can legally work while in Thailand ??

I have similar umbrella companies (seychelles / BVI / etc) But none can legalize me working in Thailand only help with invoicing etc.

The OP makes no mention in her post of wanting to work in Thailand or the need for a work permit - just trying to help out the OP as she stated in her post.

[LivinLOS]

i am an american IT freelancer who lives in thailand, with several stateside clients who pay me via direct deposit in US$ to my account in NY.

now i have an opportunity to take on a client who is in the UK and who wants to pay me in euros via paypal. how can i do this legally? my friend suggested setting up a company in the UK, but a google search has gotten me no closer to figuring out what is entailed in that for a US citizen. can anyone give any advice?

I am a Brit who works in more or less the same industry with clients in many countries - I am neither resident nor domiciled in the UK and I live in Thailand.

I have used a Hong Kong based "umbrella" company for all my invoicing and funds transfer purposes for the past fifteen years - it's a legit company that is run by a Big 6 firm and it's very convenient, reliable and cost effective. PM me if you would like details.

And that HK umbrella company can obtain you a Thai work permit so you can legally work while in Thailand ??

I have similar umbrella companies (seychelles / BVI / etc) But none can legalize me working in Thailand only help with invoicing etc.

The OP makes no mention in her post of wanting to work in Thailand or the need for a work permit - just trying to help out the OP as she stated in her post.

Thats what the OP does.. The OP has posted concerning this as a 'grey area' multiple times and every time refuses to accept the facts and reality that working while within the kingdom requires a work permit, which in turn requires an employer or corporate vehicle that can provide her one and process her Thai tax payments. She just claims some special privilege that as a American she only has to pay US taxes and ignore local labour laws.

[chiang mai]

i am an american IT freelancer who lives in thailand, with several stateside clients who pay me via direct deposit in US$ to my account in NY.

now i have an opportunity to take on a client who is in the UK and who wants to pay me in euros via paypal. how can i do this legally? my friend suggested setting up a company in the UK, but a google search has gotten me no closer to figuring out what is entailed in that for a US citizen. can anyone give any advice?

I am a Brit who works in more or less the same industry with clients in many countries - I am neither resident nor domiciled in the UK and I live in Thailand.

I have used a Hong Kong based "umbrella" company for all my invoicing and funds transfer purposes for the past fifteen years - it's a legit company that is run by a Big 6 firm and it's very convenient, reliable and cost effective. PM me if you would like details.

And that HK umbrella company can obtain you a Thai work permit so you can legally work while in Thailand ??

I have similar umbrella companies (seychelles / BVI / etc) But none can legalize me working in Thailand only help with invoicing etc.

The OP makes no mention in her post of wanting to work in Thailand or the need for a work permit - just trying to help out the OP as she stated in her post.

Thats what the OP does.. The OP has posted concerning this as a 'grey area' multiple times and every time refuses to accept the facts and reality that working while within the kingdom requires a work permit, which in turn requires an employer or corporate vehicle that can provide her one and process her Thai tax payments. She just claims some special privilege that as a American she only has to pay US taxes and ignore local labour laws.

There's local labor laws and then there's the 2008 world of people whose works involves solely the internet and telephone comms. As long as the OP declares herself as a visitor to Thailand and not here for business purposes she will not have a problem unless she feels unduly moralistic to abide by every aspect of Thai law.

[LivinLOS]

She isnt a 'visitor' this is her domicile.. This isnt a month incountry shes been here years now working.

I have lived in many countries.. and whenever I worked in them.. Remotely or not.. I had to and did pay thier taxes on the income..

The odd thing is if she bothered to sort out an Amity reg company and did it properly she would get her 80 odd thousand US overseas deduction.. Makes it a bargain that most non US nationalities would jump at.

[Prakanong]

She isnt a 'visitor' this is her domicile.. This isnt a month incountry shes been here years now working.

I have lived in many countries.. and whenever I worked in them.. Remotely or not.. I had to and did pay thier taxes on the income..

The odd thing is if she bothered to sort out an Amity reg company and did it properly she would get her 80 odd thousand US overseas deduction.. Makes it a bargain that most non US nationalities would jump at.

But most nationalities do not need to jump at it as most countries do not tax their nationals outside their country like the USA does.

I am paying Singapore taxes and no matter how much I earn here I owe the UK nothing in taxes unlike some of the Americans at my company that owe the US after 80,000 USd or whatever it is - their housing allowances are even taxed now are they not?.

[chiang mai]

Well maybe the OP screwed up, don't know. But at a minimum there must be double taxation treaties between Thailand and the US so double taxation should not be a problem?

[chiang mai]

She isnt a 'visitor' this is her domicile.. This isnt a month incountry shes been here years now working.

I have lived in many countries.. and whenever I worked in them.. Remotely or not.. I had to and did pay thier taxes on the income..

The odd thing is if she bothered to sort out an Amity reg company and did it properly she would get her 80 odd thousand US overseas deduction.. Makes it a bargain that most non US nationalities would jump at.

But most nationalities do not need to jump at it as most countries do not tax their nationals outside their country like the USA does.

I am paying Singapore taxes and no matter how much I earn here I owe the UK nothing in taxes unlike some of the Americans at my company that owe the US after 80,000 USd or whatever it is - their housing allowances are even taxed now are they not?.

Well yes but only true in the UK if you have first taken care of the UK taxation end of things by being first absent for one year and not breaking the 90 day rule thereafter.

As an aside to the earlier post: many countries including the UK and all countries within Europe now tax in a similar fashion (NOT EXACTLY) to the US with regard to work overseas.

[Prakanong]

She isnt a 'visitor' this is her domicile.. This isnt a month incountry shes been here years now working.

I have lived in many countries.. and whenever I worked in them.. Remotely or not.. I had to and did pay thier taxes on the income..

The odd thing is if she bothered to sort out an Amity reg company and did it properly she would get her 80 odd thousand US overseas deduction.. Makes it a bargain that most non US nationalities would jump at.

But most nationalities do not need to jump at it as most countries do not tax their nationals outside their country like the USA does.

I am paying Singapore taxes and no matter how much I earn here I owe the UK nothing in taxes unlike some of the Americans at my company that owe the US after 80,000 USd or whatever it is - their housing allowances are even taxed now are they not?.

Well yes but only true in the UK if you have first taken care of the UK taxation end of things by being first absent for one year and not breaking the 90 day rule thereafter.

As an aside to the earlier post: many countries including the UK and all countries within Europe now tax in a similar fashion (NOT EXACTLY) to the US with regard to work overseas.

I have been out of the UK since 2002 this time and have not spent 90 says in country in all that time never mind each year - I may have done 40 or so at most in total

Edited January 14, 2008 by Prakanong

[LivinLOS]

How other countries tax is largely irrelevant (even if you have to still pay them or have a good international tax specialist sort out the double taxation agreement deductions)..

If your working while in Thailand you need a work permit. End of.

Americans are pretty lucky in that they have an easy route to 100% ownership via an Amity company registration. From there everything falls into place, work permits, long stay visa's, tax payments (and US tax deductibles), ability to invoice, etc etc etc.