Helping The Locals/family

[Flummoxed]

I am interested to hear of how people help their wife's family or neighbours. Rather that hand over hard cash, what alternatives have you found to improve the lives of those you have come to know? Examples I can think of are taking someone to hospital for cataract removal and footing the bill, this must be a massive improvement to that persons life. Taking the family for a holiday. Fitting a water pump to the well.

Ideas welcomed.

[lopburi3]

All your ideas are fine but hard cash is not as inappropriate as it may be in your culture. Gifts are normally in the form of cash and it is normal from children to provide cash to parents on special occasions or emergencies.

[Ajarn]

I am interested to hear of how people help their wife's family or neighbours. Rather that hand over hard cash, what alternatives have you found to improve the lives of those you have come to know? Examples I can think of are taking someone to hospital for cataract removal and footing the bill, this must be a massive improvement to that persons life. Taking the family for a holiday. Fitting a water pump to the well.

Ideas welcomed.

First, let me complement you on your good heart and good intentions...It's great to see!

Being a teacher, I believe the gift of education is a gift that changes lives.

Fortunately, education isn't expensive here, so your baht can go a long way..

Even if your family is welll-enough off to provide for their kid's education, there are still plenty of families where this isn't true. If you'd like some info or suggestions about where/how to do this, please PM me.

Whatever you do, I would also suggest caution and forward-thinking when it comes to paying for things for others. It could bring out some of the worst in people, even family, and clear thinking must prevail on your part to avoid any possible future expectations you're not prepared for, or problems from some with the greedy (and potentially dangerous to you) 'how can I get some of that' thinking...

Whatever happens, never lose your good intentions or your generous heart

[Flummoxed]

Indeed Ajarn, one of the ideas I had was setting up an English school near the village that would be open to all the kids in the area and free to attend. Whether or not this would be practical or feasible I have yet to work out. I look forward to discussing this with you in the future.

[Flummoxed]

All your ideas are fine but hard cash is not as inappropriate as it may be in your culture. Gifts are normally in the form of cash and it is normal from children to provide cash to parents on special occasions or emergencies.

You are, of course, absolutely correct Lopburi3. However, in my attempts to meet Thai's and their culture half way, I also expect a step towards that half way mark by the Thai's themselves, in their understanding of my culture.

[wamberal]

One of the very best principles in designing aid programmes is to invite the aid recipients to discuss what they really need, and allow them to implement the solutions.

Suggest that you talk to the village leaders, or the relatives or whatever that you would like to help, and ask them what would make a difference in their lives. They might have totally different ideas about it to you -- and then, if you accept their ideas, fund them and let them implement the solution, with you playing a watching brief....providing funding as results are achieved, or as resources are needed to be bought.

And the very best of luck to you.

[Flummoxed]

One of the very best principles in designing aid programmes is to invite the aid recipients to discuss what they really need, and allow them to implement the solutions.

Suggest that you talk to the village leaders, or the relatives or whatever that you would like to help, and ask them what would make a difference in their lives. They might have totally different ideas about it to you -- and then, if you accept their ideas, fund them and let them implement the solution, with you playing a watching brief....providing funding as results are achieved, or as resources are needed to be bought.

And the very best of luck to you.

Splendid idea!

[Yohan]

I can comment on this question, because I see what some of my European friends did, who are married to Thais and are living in Thailand.

1- Co-operation with a Thai family, who is poorer than the Western foreigner, is to be done best by offering them a way of to do business. Do not give any cash money, many Thai families do not know, how to use it properly if they need not to work for it.

2- Register as much as possible of this business as your own, let the Thai relatives work in them with some monthly little repayment to you.

All what I have seen, this works remarkable good and the Thai relatives like that in this way and it makes the position of the foreign husband more valuable to them.

Examples what some of my friends did:

a- Her sister has no job, no money.... the foreign husband bought a small shop and she made a laundry out of it. Her sister pays back every month 4000,- baht to him. Should she rent the shop from somebody else, the minimum rent would be baht 7000,-. Impossible for her to think about to buy an own shop, as she had really no money.

b- Parents have no own home, paying rent for a old very desolat house. The foreign husband bought a house (in his name, yellow book) - the landplot is the 30 years lease....the Thai parents are happy with that and pay even less 'rent' to him - but they have to pay....

c- Brother of the Thai wife has a very low paid job as a driver. Foreign husband bought a minibus, also some kind of taxi permit. He pays back every month baht 5000,- Such good conditions would be impossible anywhere else.... However there isa contract and the brother is still not the owner....He must pay or the minibus might be legally sold by the foreign husband.

d- Wife wants more money, foreign husband bought a convenience store...as it is in a condominium complex, the shop is registered on his name. He takes some money out for himself every month, the rest is for his wife...

She thinks this was the best idea, her husband ever had...some other women, who are her friends are now working in this shop.

My personal impression is, never give cash as a foreigner to your Thai family, think about offering any kind of business, with some repayment to you!

[Ajarn]

Indeed Ajarn, one of the ideas I had was setting up an English school near the village that would be open to all the kids in the area and free to attend. Whether or not this would be practical or feasible I have yet to work out. I look forward to discussing this with you in the future.

I would be very interested in discussing this with you. Like you, I'm also keeping my eyes open for ways I can help support education with the resources I have..

For wamberal, I completely agree. The hardest part is often, for me, making the right contacts, with the right people. Speaking Thai is good, or at least someone with you who can, and who is thinking and understanding on your wave-length so they can better communicate and make decisions with families, puuyai baans, schools, etc., on your behalf. But, lots of caution here for the (relatively) clueless farang... like me. Lots of ways to get in over one's head, even with good intentions, as I've learned

[Flummoxed]

Food for thought Yohan. Thanks.

[Ajarn]

I also like the idea mentioned above concerning helping people get started in a small business. It could even be something as cheap as financing a noodle cart, or paying to have a special bicycle-like vehicle made for someone physically handicapped, enabling him to sell lottery tickets to help support himself, and offering another person a way to feel more Pride in himself....

Lots of roads to follow for those with good intentions

[lopburi3]

I also expect a step towards that half way mark by the Thai's themselves, in their understanding of my culture.

Why?

You and I are living in their culture. So how do you or I set a "half way mark"? It comes off very colonialist to me; but don't believe that was your intent.

I was not saying not to do "things" rather than supply cash but only trying to point out a basic cultural difference in thinking.

[Yohan]

Food for thought Yohan. Thanks.

I think, the most important point is, that you are not showing up as the great rich Farang....(Thai people do not like this)

If you do so, then they all will rip you off, and finally YOU are alone, all money gone, not even a Thank you! Keep this in mind - think about yourself first.

You are not above them, but also not below them....

Make yourself equal......but to some good conditions also for you.....

The fairest way is to help out financially by starting any kind of small business, you can do this legally as a foreigner in Thailand.

As a fact, many foreigners lost money, because they gave uncontrolled cash to Thai families. (Bargirl-stories and similar experiences like that....)

Always offer a business, about with the following in mind:

I give you money, (but with very good conditions, because I am the foreigner in YOUR Thai family) and YOU, the Thais, you make the business out of it, and you pay me back slowly...(you are honest people and because it is my money, so you must pay it back!) -

Make legal contracts....lease, house-owner, share-holder, mortgage....

to show up also legally as a business-man to them. Thai contracts are looking very serious to them....

The funny point out of that is, that it really seems to work...

There is nothing wrong when you as a foreigner talk with your Thai family in this way. Thai people like business....

[Begs]

My personal impression is, never give cash as a foreigner to your Thai family, think about offering any kind of business, with some repayment to you!

Yohan makes some good points, i also am thinking along similar lines.

Everybody deserves a little help in life if they are willing to help themselves.

I am sure people would give you a lot more respect for helping them provide a better life for themselves, by providing the opportunity for them to do it themselves, as opposed to handing out some money occasionaly.

This is my idea anyway.

[pnustedt]

One thing my wife does - if someone is dying in the village she does what she can to make their last days comfortable, whether this involves providing cash, smokes, drink, food or whatever. This also seems to make the family less stressed.

She's also scared of ghosts so I reckon she's trying to buy favour with the after life

[the scouser]

I am quite prepared to improve somebody's quality of life but would personally arrange for work to be done and personally pay the supplier. For example, an Aussie mate of mine paid for his in-laws shack-on-stilts to be converted in to a Western-type house but paid the builder directly. His belief was that if he gave the money to his wife's family for the work, his father-in-law and his cohorts would have pissed it all against the wall within a month.

Scouse.

[hkthai]

I think, the most important point is, that you are not showing up as the great rich Farang....(Thai people do not like this)

If you do so, then they all will rip you off, and finally YOU are alone, all money gone, not even a Thank you! Keep this in mind - think about yourself first.

You are not above them, but also not below them....

Make yourself equal......but to some good conditions also for you.....

That is a very good point Yohan. Be humble. People will know if you are smarter, richer, and in general better off than they are. But if your approach is one of arrogance, then no one will feel the bit sad if you lose it all. I believe this is a universal concept.

It's great that you guys are talking about ways to help the less fortunate. I remember many years back helping out an ex-worker (many ex-workers). The highest education that this group had was 6th - 9th grade level. Out of the ten, only one I considered got past the point where he does not need to do laborer type jobs. He worked for me for over 7 years. During that period, I would take the time to teach him how to use the computer to the point where he developed an interest in it. After he went his own way, he actually attended a government sponsored program to train as a technician. I heard from him several months back. He is now working for a large computer hardware firm. Although still very low in ranking and making probably not much more than a laborer, at least he is developing some skills that can be applied to others jobs than as a constructuion laborer. Oh..and he wants to attend more classes which I would gladly pay for if it helps him progress up the economic ladders of life.

The point here is there will be many failures. Howeer, the one that progress makes it the more worthwhile to keep helping.

[Ajarn]

I think, the most important point is, that you are not showing up as the great rich Farang....(Thai people do not like this)

If you do so, then they all will rip you off, and finally YOU are alone, all money gone, not even a Thank you! Keep this in mind - think about yourself first.

You are not above them, but also not below them....

Make yourself equal......but to some good conditions also for you.....

That is a very good point Yohan. Be humble. People will know if you are smarter, richer, and in general better off than they are. But if your approach is one of arrogance, then no one will feel the bit sad if you lose it all. I believe this is a universal concept.

It's great that you guys are talking about ways to help the less fortunate. I remember many years back helping out an ex-worker (many ex-workers). The highest education that this group had was 6th - 9th grade level. Out of the ten, only one I considered got past the point where he does not need to do laborer type jobs. He worked for me for over 7 years. During that period, I would take the time to teach him how to use the computer to the point where he developed an interest in it. After he went his own way, he actually attended a government sponsored program to train as a technician. I heard from him several months back. He is now working for a large computer hardware firm. Although still very low in ranking and making probably not much more than a laborer, at least he is developing some skills that can be applied to others jobs than as a constructuion laborer. Oh..and he wants to attend more classes which I would gladly pay for if it helps him progress up the economic ladders of life.

The point here is there will be many failures. Howeer, the one that progress makes it the more worthwhile to keep helping.

And you should be proud of the part you played in his life, so far. It's always great when your 'students' do well, na'?...

[wamberal]

A couple more thoughts about helping people. Depending on where you live, and where the people you want to help live, you might find that a new well or two would come in handy, for the village or the school.

Talking of schools, I would be more inclined to look at ways to make the existing school in your area more effective.. a lot of Thai people grown up partially or wholly illiterate in Thai, let alone English. I would be slightly nervous about encouraging people to learn English -- again, depending on where they live.....it might be a way of making it easier for the girls to get into bar work etc in the big city.

I am very impressed at what I have heard and read about the work of some Catholic priests, both in Klong Toey, and also there is a guy who has been in Nong Khai for many years who does a lot of work in rescuing girls from prostitution.

Hope these ideas help -- my Thai wife and I will be back there in a year or two, and I too will be looking for ways and means to help.

[hkthai]

I read some months ago of a program spearheaded by the expat manager of the Citibank Thailand Office. The program objective was to built houses for families upcountry who were poor and basically living in shanty town conditions. Citibank along with other corporations would sponsor and supply the building materials. Volunteers from these companies do the actual work of building the houses over several weekends. In return, the benefactor would volunteer their time to assist in building the next batch of houses for people like themselves.

I am sure there are lots of details in how they go about qualifying a family for a house. However, I think this is a very inspiring story and a cause worth pursuing for those of you who have lots of free time and looking for ways to help. It may not be building a house but something such as wamberal suggested as ways of improving the quality of life for those with none.

If someone is looking to start a program I would be interested in helping out.

[Jeff1]

Now this is more like it ! I am very happy to read this kind of thinking . Good for all of you .

[issan2]

What about second hand computers ? A lot of the kids in the villages local to me are doing computing business courses and they seem quite bright. I want to pick up a couple of cheap second hand computers for them so that they can use word processors and spread sheets etc. at home.

Anyone know of a good source, Im not planning to spend more than 10k baht a head. But anything that I can load linux on or perhaps an early version of windows. An old machine with at least a cd rom drive.

Just something so that these kids can practise at home and get ahead. I plan to buy a couple of them pc's and then get a them a couple of PC books in Thai.

Anybody done this ? If so what were the results and what did you get in terms of hardware for your baht ?

[vanessa_vanillasky]

Indeed Ajarn, one of the ideas I had was setting up an English school near the village that would be open to all the kids in the area and free to attend. Whether or not this would be practical or feasible I have yet to work out. I look forward to discussing this with you in the future.

I would be very interested in discussing this with you. Like you, I'm also keeping my eyes open for ways I can help support education with the resources I have..

For wamberal, I completely agree. The hardest part is often, for me, making the right contacts, with the right people. Speaking Thai is good, or at least someone with you who can, and who is thinking and understanding on your wave-length so they can better communicate and make decisions with families, puuyai baans, schools, etc., on your behalf. But, lots of caution here for the (relatively) clueless farang... like me. Lots of ways to get in over one's head, even with good intentions, as I've learned

like you im also a teacher, i help my less fortunate but deserving students by giving them monthly allowances (for foods and bus fares), i get the money through friends (farangs and thais) they are my angel networks, and now we are supporting 4 students in my school i hope that it will grow gradually and that we can help more less unfortunate kids, because we believe all they need is a chance, to have a good education and with this under their belt they will have better and a brighter future.

[stumonster]

Anyone know of a good source, Im not planning to spend more than 10k baht a head. But anything that I can load linux on or perhaps an early version of windows. An old machine with at least a cd rom drive.

panthip plaza

second hand p3's with 10-20 gig drives, agp cards, 128meg ram are 4-6k baht.

monitors are probably best to get brand new...and buy a couple of UPS' .

also remember the kids will be learning on windoze machines with windoze software so you might be better off putting a copy( 120baht from panthip) of win2k instead of linux on the machines.

and guarenteed they will be more interested in playing games on their comps than doing homework.... though games was what first got me into computers.

[Ajarn]

Indeed Ajarn, one of the ideas I had was setting up an English school near the village that would be open to all the kids in the area and free to attend. Whether or not this would be practical or feasible I have yet to work out. I look forward to discussing this with you in the future.

I would be very interested in discussing this with you. Like you, I'm also keeping my eyes open for ways I can help support education with the resources I have..

For wamberal, I completely agree. The hardest part is often, for me, making the right contacts, with the right people. Speaking Thai is good, or at least someone with you who can, and who is thinking and understanding on your wave-length so they can better communicate and make decisions with families, puuyai baans, schools, etc., on your behalf. But, lots of caution here for the (relatively) clueless farang... like me. Lots of ways to get in over one's head, even with good intentions, as I've learned

like you im also a teacher, i help my less fortunate but deserving students by giving them monthly allowances (for foods and bus fares), i get the money through friends (farangs and thais) they are my angel networks, and now we are supporting 4 students in my school i hope that it will grow gradually and that we can help more less unfortunate kids, because we believe all they need is a chance, to have a good education and with this under their belt they will have better and a brighter future.

You are so cool, Vanessa... It's great to see so many grassroots Ajarns doing so much more than just teaching in a classroom.

Since the Thai government closed all schools with fewer than 60 students, the more isolated a kid lives, the farther they would have to travel to school now... Some don't even have the 20-40 baht per day for a songthaew to school, so they simply stop going to school.

Just 20-40 baht per day for a kid to have a good chance for a good life.

Another side-effect of the poorly planned school closures, is that more and more parents (hilltribe and Thai) are opting to send their kids to Christian boarding schools. Not because they're Christians, but mostly because it's free and safe for their children, the parents have told me....

[Nam Kao]

Nice intentions but be careful though, once you open your wallet the sponges

will hound you day in / day out

My personal goal is to save a childs life.

[Yohan]

.............let alone English.  I would be slightly nervous about encouraging people to learn English  --  again, depending on where they live.....it might be a way of making it easier for the girls to get into bar work etc in the big city.

I am very impressed at what I have heard and read about the work of some Catholic priests, both in Klong Toey, and also there is a guy who has been in Nong Khai for many years who does a lot of work in rescuing girls from prostitution.

....................

I am not impressed about such kind of *help* and it might be a good idea, to ask the local people first, if they like somebody to show up and to *help* them by rescuing *little girls*.......

Religious groups are showing up very frequently to *help* in the search of new members.....Jehovah, Scientology and such similar motivated organisations....(like feminists - also famous to rescue little girls in Thailand)

Better for religious groups to clean up the own stable.....before appoaching others to *help* them...

Here in Japan they are showing up to collect money for their organisations, somebody must pay them, Japan is not so cheap for living here......and of course also to *rescue foreign little girls* in return. There are no *local little girls* here for rescue.

About Catholic priests, they better should rescue *little boys*, as they have a problem with that all stuff in USA and Western Europe, including child-porn.

Needless to say, that poverty and corruption is on the worst, where majority are Catholics and showing up to *help*..... wide areas of Latin America, in Africa, also Philippines, Eastern Europe and so on are often worse off compared to Thailand........

And the argument why to try to keep people stupid and not encouraging them to study English, because they might misuse foreign languages for work in a night-club or bar, is total nonsense.

[boris]

What about second hand computers ? A lot of the kids in the villages local to me are doing computing business courses and they seem quite bright. I want to pick up a couple of cheap second hand computers for them so that they can use word processors and spread sheets etc. at home.

Anyone know of a good source, Im not planning to spend more than 10k baht a head. But anything that I can load linux on or perhaps an early version of windows. An old machine with at least a cd rom drive.

Just something so that these kids can practise at home and get ahead. I plan to buy a couple of them pc's and then get a them a couple of PC books in Thai.

Anybody done this ? If so what were the results and what did you get in terms of hardware for your baht ?

I arranged and supervised the donation of several top of the line computers, when my firm re-equipped several years ago, to a secondary school near Khon Kaen where I had family links.It was really my own fault but I think the donation was less useful than it should have been because there was no effective training component built in.

[astral]

I also expect a step towards that half way mark by the Thai's themselves, in their understanding of my culture.

That is the most important part.

Many years ago I was asked by a Sri Lankan family to assist in buying a small fishing boat.

After asking some questions I realised that I was not being asked for the full amount, they already had about 30% of the sum from their own savings.

I loaned them the remainder and we drew up a formal agreement.

Over the next 2-3 years the money was repaid on a regular basis.

With the increased income from the boat they were also able to extend

their one room house as time went on.

[Ajarn]

What about second hand computers ? A lot of the kids in the villages local to me are doing computing business courses and they seem quite bright. I want to pick up a couple of cheap second hand computers for them so that they can use word processors and spread sheets etc.  at home.

Anyone know of a good source, Im not planning to spend more than 10k baht a head. But anything that I can load linux on or perhaps an early version of windows. An old machine with at least a cd rom drive.

Just something so that these kids can practise at home and get ahead. I plan to buy a couple of them pc's and then get a them a couple of PC books in Thai.

Anybody done this ? If so what were the results and what did you get in terms of hardware for your baht ?

I arranged and supervised the donation of several top of the line computers, when my firm re-equipped several years ago, to a secondary school near Khon Kaen where I had family links.It was really my own fault but I think the donation was less useful than it should have been because there was no effective training component built in.

Good point about training....Reminds me of when I was teaching in the South, and our university was given a 10 million baht computer lab, with 40 computers and even a satelite receiving hookup... Every govt university got the same.

No training was ever provided, and none of the Ajarns, except me, ever used the lab for anything other than watching their afternoon soaps off the satelite.

Total waste of money.