Farang Kills Thai Armed Robber

[JetsetBkk]

Why did the farang have too drown the man?

The proper procedure once the raider was disarmed and overpowered was then to call the police.

The Farang should face charges for man slaughter.

Where did it say the gunman was ever disarmed? Since you have only speculated, I too will speculate. The idiot refused to drop the gun, and the Frenchman did what he could only do...hold the sob's head into the water in hopes that the gun wold be dropped. The would be/still possible murderer, refused to drop the gun, and while trying to gasp for air, his lungs filled with water, and he subsequently drowned. By definition, since the gunman still had the gun, it is still self-defense. Are you by chance the twin brother of another poster here?

A quick look at "powwow"s other 19 posts will show he is a pathetic troll.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?ac...r&mid=52556

[Johpa]

guns dont kill people ,people kill people .

That is just conservative Christian American small willy NRA claptrap. People with guns kill other people with ridiculous ease.

I just want people out there to know that not all Americans share that tragic and stupid NRA sentiment.

[Mosha]

Oh fer crying out loud trolls. Someone tries to kill your family/you and you want to debate the issue. You might qualify for a job in the UK as as a frigging social worker. Get a F*****g grip tossers.

[mrbojangles]

Oh fer crying out loud trolls. Someone tries to kill your family/you and you want to debate the issue. You might qualify for a job in the UK as as a frigging social worker. Get a F*****g grip tossers.

Although not exactly the words i'd use I'd agree with this statement whole heartedly

[meemiathai]

keep on your bashing and brand my point as "silly", still two wrongs don't make one right - overreacted!

Two shot, one in serious condition, one dead!

Very sorry for them!

Can't believe it, even it was "self defense", we got one dead!

Very amazing that a big part of the "audience" condones this, it's lynch-justice!

I agree with you. I can't believe there are so many barbarians here.

That guy should have went for the second and fourth finger on his left hand with his own left hand. Uses his right hand and try to grab hold of the guys hair, about 300 to 500 hundred pieces. Then uses his right foot to kick at the right knee from the inner side of the legs. This is going to cause a full grown man to fall. But make sure if it is a 250 lbs man, you have to use 88.5 lbs of force. Whilst a thai man most probably only weigh 150 lbs, using that amount of force is going to hurt his knee or even worse cause permanent damage. So 68.72 lbs of force is what I reckon.

Now once he is on the ground, uses his body weight to control him. Again a french guy I guess would weigh more than 180 lbs so DO NOT lie all over him! HE MIGHT SUFFOCATE! WARNING!

Now this guy is under control, it is time you think how you are going to get your cell phone and call the police. Try to negotiate to the thai guy using all the skills you have as you did asking the wife to marry you.

Nowadays people are so brutal!

Edited November 27, 2007 by meemiathai

[ignoramus]

I haven't looked up the P is a pathetic troll link, but will at a reasonble hour; but in the interim, yeeeeees P, you are either a 'PT', a more-confused-than-before-AND-a-failed philosophy student, or a dunce...as is our other highly esteemed philosophy student S. Mind you, all philosophy students are dunces, by definiton. I used the phrase 'in high dudgeon' with a philosophy TUTOR (and Accountant) once - poor b*gger went all ga-ga. He even came perilously close to doubting me - fool.

In my experience deep thinkers are often, though not always, slow reactors - their homes are very neat, and they possess very strong but oddly, invariably, erroneous opinions about, well, everything.

The only thing they are quick at is the volunteering of their opinions. If your heart fails, ask someone else to do something, not an S, or a P. Or just pass away - it would be less stressful.

Oh people such as S and P cannot drive motor vehicles, are half a second behind the beat, can't make sweet love or even pat a dog correctly. They have few clues about anything, much.

[richard_smith237]

keep on your bashing and brand my point as "silly", still two wrongs don't make one right - overreacted!

Two shot, one in serious condition, one dead!

Very sorry for them!

Can't believe it, even it was "self defense", we got one dead!

Very amazing that a big part of the "audience" condones this, it's lynch-justice!

I agree with you. I can't believe there are so many barbarians here.

That guy should have went for the second and fourth finger on his left hand with his own left hand. Uses his right hand and try to grab hold of the guys hair, about 300 to 500 hundred pieces. Then uses his right foot to kick at the right knee from the inner side of the legs. This is going to cause a full grown man to fall. But make sure if it is a 250 lbs man, you have to use 88.5 lbs of force. Whilst a thai man most probably only weigh 150 lbs, using that amount of force is going to hurt his knee or even worse cause permanent damage. So 68.72 lbs of force is what I reckon.

Now once he is on the ground, uses his body weight to control him. Again a french guy I guess would weigh more than 180 lbs so DO NOT lie all over him! HE MIGHT SUFFOCATE! WARNING!

Now this guy is under control, it is time you think how you are going to get your cell phone and call the police. Try to negotiate to the thai guy using all the skills you have as you did asking the wife to marry you.

Nowadays people are so brutal!

Meemaithai..

You forgot to mention that in advance of this happening the vicitm should have seen the local fortune teller who would have foreseen this tragedy... Then he could have gone to a class run by law enforcement officers to lean such skills. Both he and his wife should have also gone to bullet dodging classes…

[Dakhar]

Thou shalt not kill...

Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth.... fair and square. The Thai guy was measured and found wanting. End of the game.

I doubt he drug the fellow out to a klong to drown him. Seriously I know if I were in that circumstance, I would be in such a rage, I would not take the time. I would just beat the man to death, and it can be done. Head trauma etc... it can be done and has been done (not by me). But if you put me in that situation, pound for pound I could deliver a storm that fellow has never seen before.

So my point is, the klong had to of been very close by. I would not doubt they ended up together fighting in the klong, and like I said, he was measured, and found wanting.

Too bad so sad, and thems the breaks. You pull a gun on anyone, you best know you may end up the looser, with no mercy shown. You shoot a man's wife, in the head 2 times, killing her, and the man's un-born child... you best know there will be no mercy given. offered or even considered.

If I were the French man, my regret would be I didn't have the chance to pulp the guy, breaking every essential bone in the body!

BTW, bible thumper, you don't know for sure if those rules apply.... but we know this for sure, a man came in, shot a pregnant woman 2 times in the head, and then attempted to kill her husband. This we know....

Regarding 22 velocity, power etc. I laid a Great Dane down once with a 22, point blank to the skull. It took two rounds to do it. I have no doubt a 22 can drop a human. But if she was hit in the jaw, odds are better for her. But the damage... and the pain.... tremendous.

No, drowning was was the easy way out for this guy.

[mrbojangles]

Now this guy is under control, it is time you think how you are going to get your cell phone and call the police. Try to negotiate to the thai guy using all the skills you have as you did asking the wife to marry you.

Nowadays people are so brutal!

Just one other important thing, after having made sure that the Thai guy is nice and comfortable in his restrained position. The guy can now think about attending to his wife whi is lying there after being shot..... twice !!

On a serious note, nobody has even thought about the trauma that the French guy will be going through (and of course his wife). But the guy hadn't intentionally set out to kill someone and has probably never killed anyone before. You don't just brush off an incident like this, the guy will probably not sleep a wink for a long time.

[fletchsmile]

For the French guy and his family I wish them well. Especially the wife in ICU. Luckily the doctors were able to operate and save the unborn child. I hope the mother recovers.

As for the killing, the west would more likely prosecute the French guy, showing how messed up the legal system can be back home on these issues. I'm not sure Thailand will do or not. Let's be honest if the criminal was not committing a potentially fatal crime at the time, there is no way the French guy would normally have any motive to kill him. So why hold him responsible? The robber's actions led to his own death. Real justice should take that into account. While I'm not saying it's right what the French guy did, any of us could have done similar in the heat of the moment. If someone harmed my wife and unborn child, in a potentially fatal way, my emotions would likely get the better of me. Justice is about being fair. It would be unfair to prosecute him for such a traumatic event, and for something he would never normaly do, and which ocurred in such extreme circumstances. There's a good chance you, I or ayone else might do similar. Hopefully we will never find out. The French guy will live with this for the rest of his life, which will be punishment enough.

One point I don't think has been mentioned. The dead man's wife had just had a child. The last paragraph says that the reason he stole the money was that he was in debt, and his wife had just had a child. Obviously he was wrong to do what he did. But he was desperate, and we don't know the full extent of his desperation, and motives. If we show compassion to the French guy on killing someone else, in extreme circumstances, it's possible that the robber himself may be deservng of some compassion. We don't know what was going thru his mind, or what he was normally like when not desperate. Maybe it was just a robbery that went wrong, he panicked and it got out of hand. Why take the weapon? Perhaps he took it to scare and never intended to use it, but just panicked. We will never probably know the full facts.

I don't think any of us are in a position to judge either guy. Both were looking out for their wife and child in different ways. Obviously I feel much more compassion to the French guy and family who were the victims. But I can't help wondering what drove the robber to this, even tho' he was committing a crime. Would I steal for my wife and child if I was desperate and felt I had no alternative? I hope not, but again I hope I'm never desperate enough to find out.

Lastly, spare a thought for the robbers wife and child. The child will grow up without a father, with a sad story as to why. Both mother and child will obviously struggle financially. They'll also have to live with this for the rest of their lives. I wish them well too.

Edited November 27, 2007 by fletchsmile

[GuestHouse]

I see little merit in questioning the actions of the husband in this reported incident, it seems to me that the whole incident was probably one mad panic. But of course, like everyone else here I don't have the facts.

But just as this is true of people questioning the husband's actions, so it is also true of those praising what he did.

What happened happened - period.

There are however some questions we all ought to be asking, chiefly why did the alleged thief attack this couple? and in particular is this another incident of a criminal targeting a foreign household?

Much is said here of how individuals would do likewise - forgetting all the while that under almost any circumstance victims of armed robbery are at the end of a gun or point of a knife and in no position to do anything about it. (This includes people who keep guns in the house but not actually on their person, loaded and ready to go).

If anyone thinks they are going to turn into some Rambo-esque hero when attacked - they are kidding themselves.

The answer to personal safety is to know the risks, understand the risks and minimize the risks.

Of course there is ample evidence here on TV of expats who are in total denial that any significant risk actually exists.

If, as I ask above, this is indeed indicative of rising crime against foreigners then we all ought to be asking what can be done about that.

Edited November 27, 2007 by GuestHouse

[distortedlink]

For those couple of idiots who just don't get it, here's what probably happened. I admit I wasn't there, but it's a fair guess at what probably went down.

Perp shoots wife twice. Husband charges perp, gets hit once. Husband and perp fall into khlong. Perp tries to aim at husband again (either gun). Husband and perp continue to fight over gun. Given that the choices for the husband are drowning the perp or letting go and getting shot again... No blame to the husband and no sympathy at all for the perp.

It's neither homicide nor manslaughter to drown someone who is trying to shoot you. And you can stick the moralizing where the sun doesn't shine.

Confused, you wont be, tune in to next weeks exciting episode (farang the revenge) Starring Mel Gibson as the perp.

Edited November 27, 2007 by distortedlink

[fletchsmile]

As GuestHouse says what happened happened. That can't be changed.

What could be done about it? I know if I was the French guy, I would probably feel terrible on several levels. My family situtaion, as well as having killed someone and taken away a child's father. Even though I know I hadn't caused the situation I would still feel guilty. The most practical thing I could think of doing, after starting to think things thru, would be to find a way to do something for the dead guys wife and child. If the Thai courts decide to take action against the French guy, I hope perhaps they would also take that line of thought.

Edited November 27, 2007 by fletchsmile

[DamianMavis]

keep on your bashing and brand my point as "silly", still two wrongs don't make one right - overreacted!

Two shot, one in serious condition, one dead!

Very sorry for them!

Can't believe it, even it was "self defense", we got one dead!

Very amazing that a big part of the "audience" condones this, it's lynch-justice!

I agree with you. I can't believe there are so many barbarians here.

That guy should have went for the second and fourth finger on his left hand with his own left hand. Uses his right hand and try to grab hold of the guys hair, about 300 to 500 hundred pieces. Then uses his right foot to kick at the right knee from the inner side of the legs. This is going to cause a full grown man to fall. But make sure if it is a 250 lbs man, you have to use 88.5 lbs of force. Whilst a thai man most probably only weigh 150 lbs, using that amount of force is going to hurt his knee or even worse cause permanent damage. So 68.72 lbs of force is what I reckon.

Now once he is on the ground, uses his body weight to control him. Again a french guy I guess would weigh more than 180 lbs so DO NOT lie all over him! HE MIGHT SUFFOCATE! WARNING!

Now this guy is under control, it is time you think how you are going to get your cell phone and call the police. Try to negotiate to the thai guy using all the skills you have as you did asking the wife to marry you.

Nowadays people are so brutal!

Good one Meemi

I'd like to point out to those talking about desperation. Thailand is a land of abundant food, you don't have to work very hard at all HERE to survive so true desperation is really NOT AN ISSUE. I cannot feel sympathy for a murderous thief that can live just fine WITHOUT killing and stealing. GREED is the basis of MOST evil, NOT desperation. Especially here. Also, panic is not a consideration either, if one of us panics... WOULD WE EVER SHOOT AN 8 MONTH PREGNANT WOMAN IN THE HEAD?! No fracking way, and you know that! There is no "panicky" justification for doing such a truly despicable and ruthless evil act.

CMON! A pregnant woman!!!! Does it get any LOWER?!

Damian

[madjbs]

I can’t see how any court could seriously convict this guy. If making sure a psycho who has just shot your wife 2 times in the head and shot at you 4 times doesn’t ever get back up to carry on killing you is not "reasonable force" then what on earth is. Are you going to risk letting go of the guy early so he can grab his gun and blow your head off.

[DamianMavis]

You'd think that would be common sense to EVERYONE wouldn't you?

Damian

[madjbs]

I guess people have seen the cases in the west where home owners have been sent to prison for killing or injuring burglars in their homes. Most of these cases however involved the home owner shooting the burglars in the back or while they were running away. In those cases it’s understandable but here the psycho had already tried to murder the French guy’s wife and then tried to kill him as well, no court or police force I have seen would condemn after that.

Edited November 27, 2007 by madjbs

[fletchsmile]

Good one Meemi

I'd like to point out to those talking about desperation. Thailand is a land of abundant food, you don't have to work very hard at all HERE to survive so true desperation is really NOT AN ISSUE. I cannot feel sympathy for a murderous thief that can live just fine WITHOUT killing and stealing. GREED is the basis of MOST evil, NOT desperation. Especially here. Also, panic is not a consideration either, if one of us panics... WOULD WE EVER SHOOT AN 8 MONTH PREGNANT WOMAN IN THE HEAD?! No fracking way, and you know that! There is no "panicky" justification for doing such a truly despicable and ruthless evil act.

CMON! A pregnant woman!!!! Does it get any LOWER?!

Damian

Not disagreeing with you, but I would emphasize, that nobody has the full facts. Reason why he did it was not greed. It was in the last sentence. His wife had just had a baby, and he had debts he could not pay. Instead he ended up paying with his life.

เพราะกำลังเดือดร้อนต้องการหาเงินใช้หนี้กองทุนหมู่บ้านเป็นเงิน 10,000 บาท ประกอบกับเมียเพิ่งคลอดลูกเลยไม่มีเงินใช้หนี้สิน หมดทางออกคิดสั้นวางแผนบุกจี้ชิงทรัพย์จนถูกฆ่าตายในที่สุด

Do you know what would have happened to the robber, his wife and recently born child if he didn't pay the debt? I don't. It could be that going hungry was the least of his worries. Would he have been ALLOWED "to live just fine" without paying his debts? Maybe someone threatened to do something to him or his family. Being in Thailand, we all know that threat might have taken many forms, from violence towards him and his family, to having to sell members of his family, extended family, etc. Did you feel 100% in control of your emotions straight after the birth of your child? I didn't. Then combine that with debts you can't pay and maybe having your own and / or you family's lives threatened / something happen to your new born child etc etc? Maybe it happened that way, maybe it didn't and he was simply a thug who got his just reward in some way. No-one really knows. Not something I want to judge tho'.

Yes a shocking and very low crime. In reality there is no point judging anyway. The guy has paid for his crime already. I think that's enough. More important is what happens next to all the victims left behind

Edited November 27, 2007 by fletchsmile

[madamtingtong]

Thou shalt not kill...

Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth.... fair and square. The Thai guy was measured and found wanting. End of the game.

I doubt he drug the fellow out to a klong to drown him. Seriously I know if I were in that circumstance, I would be in such a rage, I would not take the time. I would just beat the man to death, and it can be done. Head trauma etc... it can be done and has been done (not by me). But if you put me in that situation, pound for pound I could deliver a storm that fellow has never seen before.

So my point is, the klong had to of been very close by. I would not doubt they ended up together fighting in the klong, and like I said, he was measured, and found wanting.

Too bad so sad, and thems the breaks. You pull a gun on anyone, you best know you may end up the looser, with no mercy shown. You shoot a man's wife, in the head 2 times, killing her, and the man's un-born child... you best know there will be no mercy given. offered or even considered.

If I were the French man, my regret would be I didn't have the chance to pulp the guy, breaking every essential bone in the body!

BTW, bible thumper, you don't know for sure if those rules apply.... but we know this for sure, a man came in, shot a pregnant woman 2 times in the head, and then attempted to kill her husband. This we know....

Regarding 22 velocity, power etc. I laid a Great Dane down once with a 22, point blank to the skull. It took two rounds to do it. I have no doubt a 22 can drop a human. But if she was hit in the jaw, odds are better for her. But the damage... and the pain.... tremendous.

No, drowning was was the easy way out for this guy.

When it come to dogs you da man! wad the dog armed at the time? Wad it da robbery

[Tinkelbell]

quoted........"No charges against the Farang, a French citizen, because police said it was self defence. "

....................................................................

Hooray ! That's great news for all of us.

He is a very special kind of guy.

A barehanded guy can finish the gun trotting-pertetrator is my hero, not only to his wife but to the world.

Hope his wife recovers fully soon. She is in our prayer.

[Tinkelbell]

quoted.........."Are you by chance the twin brother of another poster here?

......................................................

Good question.

I got the same wondering , maybe 'Samuian' can answer this one too.

[Dakhar]

Thou shalt not kill...

Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth.... fair and square. The Thai guy was measured and found wanting. End of the game.

I doubt he drug the fellow out to a klong to drown him. Seriously I know if I were in that circumstance, I would be in such a rage, I would not take the time. I would just beat the man to death, and it can be done. Head trauma etc... it can be done and has been done (not by me). But if you put me in that situation, pound for pound I could deliver a storm that fellow has never seen before.

So my point is, the klong had to of been very close by. I would not doubt they ended up together fighting in the klong, and like I said, he was measured, and found wanting.

Too bad so sad, and thems the breaks. You pull a gun on anyone, you best know you may end up the looser, with no mercy shown. You shoot a man's wife, in the head 2 times, killing her, and the man's un-born child... you best know there will be no mercy given. offered or even considered.

If I were the French man, my regret would be I didn't have the chance to pulp the guy, breaking every essential bone in the body!

BTW, bible thumper, you don't know for sure if those rules apply.... but we know this for sure, a man came in, shot a pregnant woman 2 times in the head, and then attempted to kill her husband. This we know....

Regarding 22 velocity, power etc. I laid a Great Dane down once with a 22, point blank to the skull. It took two rounds to do it. I have no doubt a 22 can drop a human. But if she was hit in the jaw, odds are better for her. But the damage... and the pain.... tremendous.

No, drowning was was the easy way out for this guy.

When it come to dogs you da man! wad the dog armed at the time? Wad it da robbery

In the country, that is what people do when an animal suffers a mortal injury. She was 14 year old. If your mind could comprehend what that means for a Great Dane, I am impressed.

Great Danes usually live for about 7 years, she made to 14. I raised her since I was 14 myself. She was essentially my best friend for a large portion of my life. She was old, hips wore out, essentially blind, could hardly move, and was injured. This all occured on a Friday evening. The vet was closed, and Monday was a holliday, for that particular date and time. To expect her, or to try to keep her alive until Tuesday would have been a very cruel thing to do. Truth of the matter is, her even being alive at 14 was a cruel thing in the first place.

Like I said, grew up country, that was essentially the most humane option. I actually wanted to use a 410 shot gun, but my dad insisted on the 22. So it did take two shots to the head to put her down. The first shot definitely stunned her... but I still regret using that size of a gun.

Now you may get on your pedestal and thump away if you wish. But this was at the time the humane thing to do. You can judge all you want. You were not there. I was and like I said, there was nothing more that I could have done.

and to the topic, cops were wise, and did not charge him, but now he will have to face immigration issues for performing a task out side of his work permit limitations. I wish him luck.

[Bisto]

What is Thailand coming to.

Is thailand safe for farang now, to many killings, far to many for my likeing.

[DamianMavis]

Dakhar, why did you even bother responding? No need, that person is obviously mentally disabled, sentence was barely legible.

Damian

Edited November 27, 2007 by DamianMavis

[Dakhar]

Dakhar, why did you even bother responding? No need, that person is obviously mentally disabled, sentence was barely legible.

Damian

You are right, as usual.

Take care, & have a good day.

[Scott]

Thai Visa is such an interesting place! I am one of those, you shouldn't kill people etc.... but even in the deepest reaches of my pacifist little mind, I don't see where the victim did anything wrong--really.

Even in places like the US where the victim might end up in court, he wouldn't be convicted.

Once the poor guy was actually hit with a bullet, he was largely incapacitated from doing anything other getting completely 'rid' of the perpetrator--who, if he would have been smart, would have high tailed it out of there with guns blazing in the air.

I hope everyone makes a full recovery.

[bobbin]

keep on your bashing and brand my point as "silly", still two wrongs don't make one right - overreacted!

Two shot, one in serious condition, one dead!

Very sorry for them!

Can't believe it, even it was "self defense", we got one dead!

Very amazing that a big part of the "audience" condones this, it's lynch-justice!

Samuian

**flame removed***

Every culture and country has the concept of self-defense in the face of mortal danger. To respond with deadly force in defense of the life of loved ones and yourself is the right of every person on this planet. Even pacifists must bow to this reasoning.

To try to defend your initial comments by following up with more drivel makes it all the worse.

[jackr]

Just hope the bible-bashers here don't face the same scenario and then spend the rest of their lives regretting having preserved the life of a waste of space, who may, subsequently, go on to ruin other families lives. Reminds me of a doogooder in the UK who, when asked if he would sacrifice the life of a mouse in order that the results could save his son's life, he repeatedly said he'd look for another way. Typical knee-jerk reaction and I'm sure he would do anything to save his son's life, but it just highlights the lack of all logical thought of some these righteous pricks. Time to wake up and smell the roses me thinks.

Regards the robber, personally he overstepped the line and deserved his fate simply by entering another's property whether the intention was to harm them or just to steal. What do you make of that, Samuian?

[MrSquigle]

and everyone dont forget to carry a calculater with you everywhere you go, just in case you need to calculate those forces of pressure and you get it juuuuust right...not too much...not too little...juuuust right.

Would'nt wanna suffocate or break the leg of the guy that just shot your wife in the head and then fired at you several times....

[sbk]

Lets keep this civil please.