Ups To Protect Computer ?

[bppree]

I read the following : "Power surges can still damage sensitive equipment, but a UPS with surge control (available locally at a small cost) will protect your computer and prevent data loss whenever the lights flicker." Is this still relevant information ?

[Guest Reimar]

I read the following : "Power surges can still damage sensitive equipment, but a UPS with surge control (available locally at a small cost) will protect your computer and prevent data loss whenever the lights flicker." Is this still relevant information ?

That's more than relevant info, for my opinion a UPS is a MUST! But keep in mind that a UPS is working correctly only if your Power System is grounded!

[bppree]

I read the following : "Power surges can still damage sensitive equipment, but a UPS with surge control (available locally at a small cost) will protect your computer and prevent data loss whenever the lights flicker." Is this still relevant information ?

That's more than relevant info, for my opinion a UPS is a MUST! But keep in mind that a UPS is working correctly only if your Power System is grounded!

Is it easy to explain to a layman how a Power system can be grounded ? Thanks...

[Guest Reimar]

I read the following : "Power surges can still damage sensitive equipment, but a UPS with surge control (available locally at a small cost) will protect your computer and prevent data loss whenever the lights flicker." Is this still relevant information ?

That's more than relevant info, for my opinion a UPS is a MUST! But keep in mind that a UPS is working correctly only if your Power System is grounded!

Is it easy to explain to a layman how a Power system can be grounded ? Thanks...

Oh, that's quite easy:

Step 1: go to an Hardware Shop and buy an Grunding Stick from Copper and about 1.8 m with clamp for the wire;

Step 2: buy an an single yellow copper cable 2-3 sqmm at the length you need from outside your house where you can place the pin in the soil;

Step 3: back home place the stick in the soil as deep that it just looks out of the soil;

Step 4: connect the yellow cable with the clamp to the stick;

Step 5: connect the other end of the yellow cable to your Computer Case (on metal please).

Now your Computer is grounded and the UPS as well as long as you use not "modified" power cabel, which means they still must have 3 connectors on the Male side!

[markwhite]

I read the following : "Power surges can still damage sensitive equipment, but a UPS with surge control (available locally at a small cost) will protect your computer and prevent data loss whenever the lights flicker." Is this still relevant information ?

I hard a power blip the first morning I had my new 28k baht computer, with UPS. Since then I have many outages for a second or so that would take the PC down too if it wasn't for the UPS.

My only regret is not getting a clever one that shuts the PC down safely when there's a cut for more than a few seconds. I just got a cheap one for about 1800 baht.

[opalhort]

Step 5: connect the other end of the yellow cable to your Computer Case (on metal please).

Now your Computer is grounded and the UPS as well as long as you use not "modified" power cabel, which means they still must have 3 connectors on the Male side!

Reimar,

may I take exception with your Step 5?

grounding just the case does not ground the entire system! The ground has to enter at the power source.

Grounding the 'third (ground)' pin of the UPS power plug is the best way to do it and then connect everything (PC, monitor etc.) only to the UPS.

opalhort

[Guest Reimar]

Step 5: connect the other end of the yellow cable to your Computer Case (on metal please).

Now your Computer is grounded and the UPS as well as long as you use not "modified" power cabel, which means they still must have 3 connectors on the Male side!

Reimar,

may I take exception with your Step 5?

grounding just the case does not ground the entire system! The ground has to enter at the power source.

Grounding the 'third (ground)' pin of the UPS power plug is the best way to do it and then connect everything (PC, monitor etc.) only to the UPS.

opalhort

You're wrong! Grounding the Case is an direct connect to the Power Cable for gor grounding which ends up on one end at the 3 (round) Pin of the Power Cable.

If you don't believe me I can easy show this on YOUR own computer!

On the other hand I would even do it on a different way for my self but this need more knowledge about power systems, more than the OP know!

[Gary A]

My P4 3 ghz processor burned up. I was NOT using a UPS at the time, My old one died. Whether this caused it or not, I have no idea but I don't use my computer without one now.

[Veazer]

Step 5: connect the other end of the yellow cable to your Computer Case (on metal please).

Now your Computer is grounded and the UPS as well as long as you use not "modified" power cabel, which means they still must have 3 connectors on the Male side!

Reimar,

may I take exception with your Step 5?

grounding just the case does not ground the entire system! The ground has to enter at the power source.

Grounding the 'third (ground)' pin of the UPS power plug is the best way to do it and then connect everything (PC, monitor etc.) only to the UPS.

opalhort

No, Reimar is correct. They are a common ground.

I would ground the outlet though, not just the pc. Then you can use a three-prong powerstrip and ground more appliances.

[opalhort]

Step 5: connect the other end of the yellow cable to your Computer Case (on metal please).

Now your Computer is grounded and the UPS as well as long as you use not "modified" power cabel, which means they still must have 3 connectors on the Male side!

Reimar,

may I take exception with your Step 5?

grounding just the case does not ground the entire system! The ground has to enter at the power source.

Grounding the 'third (ground)' pin of the UPS power plug is the best way to do it and then connect everything (PC, monitor etc.) only to the UPS.

opalhort

No, Reimar is correct. They are a common ground.

I would ground the outlet though, not just the pc. Then you can use a three-prong powerstrip and ground more appliances.

Yes, Reimar is correct in general IF the case of the power supply inside the PC and the MB's GND are actually connected to the case. But only as a stop-gap measure.

Here is my experience:

In a very old PC the first Power supply unit I had, the PCB of it was attached to the case using plastic snap-ins. No electric connection between case and GND.

Early this year a neighbour bought a budget PC, the supplier who delivered and set up the PC grounded the case only. After the first thunder storm the MB had to be replaced and after second one the modem was fried. All in a span of 6 months. The MB is attached to the case with plastic snap-ins! and no direct GND connection to the case.

Sure some GND will get into the system through the metal cases of the HDD or DVD drives, but look at the thickness of these cables. They are just not thick enough to take in the GND and distribute it throughout the entire system including monitor.

The only sure, safe and correct way of grounding an entire system is to get the ground in at the power source (the plug which goes into the wall socket).

opalhort

[bppree]

I read the following : "Power surges can still damage sensitive equipment, but a UPS with surge control (available locally at a small cost) will protect your computer and prevent data loss whenever the lights flicker." Is this still relevant information ?

That's more than relevant info, for my opinion a UPS is a MUST! But keep in mind that a UPS is working correctly only if your Power System is grounded!

Is it easy to explain to a layman how a Power system can be grounded ? Thanks...

Oh, that's quite easy:

Step 1: go to an Hardware Shop and buy an Grunding Stick from Copper and about 1.8 m with clamp for the wire;

Step 2: buy an an single yellow copper cable 2-3 sqmm at the length you need from outside your house where you can place the pin in the soil;

Step 3: back home place the stick in the soil as deep that it just looks out of the soil;

Step 4: connect the yellow cable with the clamp to the stick;

Step 5: connect the other end of the yellow cable to your Computer Case (on metal please).

Now your Computer is grounded and the UPS as well as long as you use not "modified" power cabel, which means they still must have 3 connectors on the Male side!

If living in an apartment building, what difference does this make ?

[Guest Reimar]

If living in an apartment building, what difference does this make ?

They don't have grounding? Talk with the housekeeper!

[bppree]

If living in an apartment building, what difference does this make ?

They don't have grounding? Talk with the housekeeper!

They might have grounding, and again : I am the utter layman... Are the same steps you mentioned valid ?

[Guest Reimar]

If living in an apartment building, what difference does this make ?

They don't have grounding? Talk with the housekeeper!

They might have grounding, and again : I am the utter layman... Are the same steps you mentioned valid ?

Basicly yes. All you need is to get a cable connected to the maybe existing Grounding. Again, contact the Housekeeper for the Info where is grounding is located at your building!

[bppree]

If living in an apartment building, what difference does this make ?

They don't have grounding? Talk with the housekeeper!

They might have grounding, and again : I am the utter layman... Are the same steps you mentioned valid ?

Basicly yes. All you need is to get a cable connected to the maybe existing Grounding. Again, contact the Housekeeper for the Info where is grounding is located at your building!

Okay, thanks !

Edited November 28, 2007 by bppree

[LivinLOS]

I had a PC blow up even behind a UPS and a very professional german electrician who seemed to know his stuff told me that UPS's are limited in thier spike protection often to only 280v or so, they smooth out power below that but a true high voltage spike will still go past. I used a surge protection strip in combo with the UPS but on a later visit he brought me 4 wall wart type tripswitches that pop in the event of a high power surge. I had a projector and HT audio gear I wanted to really keep safe and he claimed these were the best way to really be sure.

None of them have ever popped so far.

[PineSol]

this what i use:

i travel alot, and i have owned my laptop for just over 18 months, in that time i have killed 2 ac adapters (using my third). they arent expensive but the time delay to replace them is nasty. so i bought a Belkin single surge protector. the plug i bought is for use on an english wall socket so i bought a single socket adapter that you would use on an extension cable.

recently i moved into a place in samui. knowing that wall sockets here do not have an earth i went to home pro and bought some cable, a two prong plug. and wired my single socket adapter up to the two prong plug. the single socket adapter has an earth. first i tried grounding it to my air conditioner, but i found that it wasnt earthed. next i tried a grounding rod used for the ac out side my window, but to my surprise there was no earth what so ever. on the belkin there is an orange light to show that there is an earth, as this was not lit, there was no earth.. running out of ideas i tried my sink in the kitchen, bingo we have a winner. it wasnt great, the light was dim, but it was a start. under the sink i found a piece of re-bar sticking out of the concrete, a little surface rust, but when cleaned up the orange light was bright and strong. so i cleaned up the metal some more, exposed the copper wire running to the earth in the single socket adapter, wrapped it as tight around the re-bar as i could.

end result, have been using it for only a short while but feel confident that everything is working correctly and my computer is protected.

cost for belkin B450, single socket adapter B100, home pro stuff B110.

[Crossy]

Since we're talking about grounding and apartments, have a look here :- http://www.crossy.co.uk/wiring/2pin.html

The only really correct way to ground your system is via the mains plug, the internal ground connections inside the PC case really aren't up to it and may not exist.

Watch out for fake 3 pin power boards and adaptors.

[opalhort]

Watch out for fake 3 pin power boards and adaptors.

I can second that statement. I have three 'power-bars' which have a three prong plug, a thick black cable and three prong sockets purchased at Power Buy, Central and Home Pro. All of them had only two leads in the cable - NO ground at all!

The way they are packaged here there is no way to check 'till you get home and can open them to check.

opalhort

[Guest Reimar]

Just take a look in the Pin holes of the power extension and you'll see that there only 2 connection inside, the round one dont have any connector!

The usefull and full working one quite expensive here and the costings start's by app. THB 300.00

But if you connect the grounding cable to the metal of the case you can be quite sure that the computer itself is grounded and the Monitor and UPS, incl. all UPS powered devices are grounded and most of the connected USB devices too.

But to test you're 100% grounded, follow my advice about to use a Power Meter!

[QuadCore]

Excuse my ignorance, but why does a UPS have to be properly grounded for it to work properly?...

We have deployed around 20-30 APC (500VA To 1500VA) UPS's on our systems and none of them are grounded.

Do I need to go out and make sure they are all grounded for them to work properly?..

If so, that's cool. I'll go and do it, if you set something up it should be done properly.

[Tywais]

Excuse my ignorance, but why does a UPS have to be properly grounded for it to work properly?...

It's the surge arrestors and emi/rfi filters on the front end that will not perform properly without a ground path. The surge arrestors are normally connected between line-ground, neutral-ground and line-neutral to protect high differential voltage spikes on them. The emi/rfi filters (noise suppression) have filter capacitors connected between line-ground and neutral-ground, this is why a PC will give you a slight jolt if not properly grounded. The ground is passed through from the UPS to the PC and other connected equipment.

[QuadCore]

Excuse my ignorance, but why does a UPS have to be properly grounded for it to work properly?...

It's the surge arrestors and emi/rfi filters on the front end that will not perform properly without a ground path. The surge arrestors are normally connected between line-ground, neutral-ground and line-neutral to protect high differential voltage spikes on them. The emi/rfi filters (noise suppression) have filter capacitors connected between line-ground and neutral-ground, this is why a PC will give you a slight jolt if not properly grounded. The ground is passed through from the UPS to the PC and other connected equipment.

Thanks for clearing that up!

[thaipete]

If living in an apartment building, what difference does this make ?

They don't have grounding? Talk with the housekeeper!

They might have grounding, and again : I am the utter layman... Are the same steps you mentioned valid ?

Basicly yes. All you need is to get a cable connected to the maybe existing Grounding. Again, contact the Housekeeper for the Info where is grounding is located at your building!

I brought several anti-surge plugs from UK I have grounded three pin sockets here but for some reason they do not work on my computer or other electronic units here yet do on my kitchen equipment anyone any ideas?

[Guest Reimar]

If living in an apartment building, what difference does this make ?

They don't have grounding? Talk with the housekeeper!

They might have grounding, and again : I am the utter layman... Are the same steps you mentioned valid ?

Basicly yes. All you need is to get a cable connected to the maybe existing Grounding. Again, contact the Housekeeper for the Info where is grounding is located at your building!

I brought several anti-surge plugs from UK I have grounded three pin sockets here but for some reason they do not work on my computer or other electronic units here yet do on my kitchen equipment anyone any ideas?

Do a check with an Power Meter as I wrote before, first on your power source and than follow up the devices as the connected to the power source point for point!

[thaipete]

All very well in normal circumstances but PGAT sent 10,000 volts through my house twice in 3 months costing me roughly 150,000Baht per time I had a commercial RCCB installed but that just burst into flames as it is an Amp protector. The only protection I was told was about 10 ton in weight

[Gary A]

I'm certainly not a sparky and have my computer chassis grounded with a heavy wire going outside to a ground stake. I no longer get shocked so I accomplished what I wanted to accomplish. That said, I looked at a new computer with a three wire plug (third pin ground) The green third pin wire was attached to the chassis and did not go into the power supply.

[Firefoxx]

There are many types of UPS's, some are better than others, some protect better than others. The best are the "online" UPS's, which provide the most protection all the time. However, they're also the most expensive... expect to pay a LOT for them. Of course, you can probably get by with the typical 2k baht UPS, as it will protect against most things. The less reliable your main power source is, the more a UPS is recommended. I've seen quite a few instances where unstable electricity has killed a computer component. Keep in mind that UPS's have a limited usable life... usuallly their battery will fail and not backup anything after a few years.

[opalhort]

Just take a look in the Pin holes of the power extension and you'll see that there only 2 connection inside, the round one dont have any connector!

The usefull and full working one quite expensive here and the costings start's by app. THB 300.00

Of course common sense tells you that. The three I have (bought a couple of years ago when grounding here in Thailand was still in it's infancy) all have contacts in the socket's ground pin. In fact two of them had the ground pins wired internally but the cable (thick, round) to the main plug has only two leads but a 3-in plug! And yes they did cost close to 500 baht.

This Is Thailand !

I call this cheating by the manufacturers.

opalhort

[Guest Reimar]

Just take a look in the Pin holes of the power extension and you'll see that there only 2 connection inside, the round one dont have any connector!

The usefull and full working one quite expensive here and the costings start's by app. THB 300.00

Of course common sense tells you that. The three I have (bought a couple of years ago when grounding here in Thailand was still in it's infancy) all have contacts in the socket's ground pin. In fact two of them had the ground pins wired internally but the cable (thick, round) to the main plug has only two leads but a 3-in plug! And yes they did cost close to 500 baht.

This Is Thailand !

I call this cheating by the manufacturers.

opalhort

Most Made in China!!