Do You Hear The Word Farang Used By Thais In A Derogatory Way?

[Jingthing]

555555

Who is obsessed with word farang now?????

The rabid passion in which some people who think the word is never used negatively hang on in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary is truly remarkable!

Edited December 3, 2007 by Jingthing

[meemiathai]

Both the intonation and the classifier each added offensive meaning to the word 'Falang'.

So what did you say, or do?

Hey that is a difficult question! Now he will have to add a bit of imagination to answer it.

Fluent in Thai?

It is interesting that you do classify yourself as fluent. So far we have not really seen any evidence that you are, except for your own claims and mentioning a classifier in an earlier post. So in the light of this, and that anybody can claim they are whatever they like, I still view your posts on this subject with a certain amount of skepticism.

I absolutely agree with you that you should be skeptical about all claims made on websites (because of the Walter Mittys that Thailand atttracts you should probably view any claims made on Thai expat websites with double skepticism) - However, to be skeptical about my claims of proficiency is one thing, to let that skepticism blind your vision to where I have been catogorically correct in references to the use of intonation and claissifiers is quite another.

But yes I agree, claims of fluency, income, number of houses/property owned, value of stock holdings and how long/short members here are on the money markets should always be treated with skepticism.

Great post!

Great reply!

Changed your mind on that?

I am sorry, I thought you were going to know that it was meant sacarstic. I apologize for not making it more clearly. I will next time.

I am sorry I don't really mean to make any personal insults(they are actually sacarsms). But it is difficult to dig any substantial words from you apart from boasting being a fluent thai speaker, without doing so.

[asiaworld]

Well meemiathai since you are here, why didn't you answer my question.. What do you think about thai hit song "farang keenok" .. about fruit , or something else ..grace us with your opinion/professional answer

plliiiiizz

can we consider it an exaple of derogatory use or not...

Edited December 3, 2007 by asiaworld

[GuestHouse]

I bet the next you are going to give is a bunch of thais beating a farang up.

No I'm not going to give you anything - There is no point, if something does not fit your argument you'll claim you do not believe it.

But as a point of note - Are you arguing that a Thai who is in an argument/conflicted/p1ssed off with a foreigner and then uses the term Farang in a derogatory sense is not admissible here because the Thai is angry?

[meemiathai]

555555

Who is obsessed with word farang now?????

The rabid passion in which some people who think the word is never used negatively hang on in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary is truly remarkable!

Why do you always make wrong statements and deny having done so?

Is it done on purpose or is it just the clumsyness of your mind?

Did I ever say it is never used negatively? Do you have the ability to understand the difference between never heard it being used and the notion of it never being used?

Why are you so dishonest? And so blatantly being so?

[Jingthing]

Meemia

Why are you so dishonest? And so blatantly being so?

Because I am the antichrist.

I stopped taking you seriously as poster on this topic, long ago.

Edited December 3, 2007 by Jingthing

[meemiathai]

I bet the next you are going to give is a bunch of thais beating a farang up.

No I'm not going to give you anything - There is no point, if something does not fit your argument you'll claim you do not believe it.

But as a point of note - Are you arguing that a Thai who is in an argument/conflicted/p1ssed off with a foreigner and then uses the term Farang in a derogatory sense is not admissible here because the Thai is angry?

Of course so.

We all said it could be used in derogatory manner as any other word like American, english, japanese..... Just replace whatever word for it.

Again you continue to say I do not believe you when I have said I do. Sigh! What else can I say?

Edited December 3, 2007 by meemiathai

[meemiathai]

Well meemiathai since you are here, why didn't you answer my question.. What do you think about thai hit song "farang keenok" .. about fruit , or something else ..grace us with your opinion/professional answer

plliiiiizz

can we consider it an exaple of derogatory use or not...

No need to say plliiiiizzzz.

So far I have never deliberately try to avoid any questions. I think this is the first time you ever asked me this one. So I am going to answer you. I have never heard this song. Can you give me a link to it? Who sings it?

[meemiathai]

Meemia

Why are you so dishonest? And so blatantly being so?

Because I am the antichrist.

I stopped taking you seriously as poster on this topic, long ago.

Oh yes oh yes. Now all members hear can see the credibility of your claim of the negativity of the f word.

You win! What better post can we find in this world than this one!

BTW, you improved, you called me Meemia instead of Mee Mee! Well done! That is worthed all my effort!

Edited December 3, 2007 by meemiathai

[Jingthing]

Now all members hear can see the credibility of your claim of the negativity of the f word.

Sure thing, if I did indeed say anything different than that the word is neutral but commonly USED negatively, thus, the POLL RESULTS.

Do you hear the word Farang used by Thais in a derogatory way?

Always, its a slur word by definition [ 6 ] ** [4.35%]

Often [ 26 ] ** [18.84%]

Sometimes [ 45 ] ** [32.61%]

Seldom [ 41 ] ** [29.71%]

Never [ 20 ] ** [14.49%]

OK, folks, I am sure you will understand that I plan to NEVER respond to any post from MEEMEE again, OK? If I do, I am sure to go over the top and get banned here, so wish me luck in restraining ...

Edited December 3, 2007 by Jingthing

[asiaworld]

Well meemiathai since you are here, why didn't you answer my question.. What do you think about thai hit song "farang keenok" .. about fruit , or something else ..grace us with your opinion/professional answer

plliiiiizz

can we consider it an exaple of derogatory use or not...

No need to say plliiiiizzzz.

So far I have never deliberately try to avoid any questions. I think this is the first time you ever asked me this one. So I am going to answer you. I have never heard this song. Can you give me a link to it? Who sings it?

NOW YOU HAVE NAILED ME TO THE GROUND SAM.. this is my 3rd post mentioning it(2nd was adressed to you!) ..

if YOU haven't heard it, just go ask your wife , sure most thais know the song .. anyway since in last post you've sort of agreed that it can be used in offencive manner no point to continue ..

Peace ..

[meemiathai]

Well meemiathai since you are here, why didn't you answer my question.. What do you think about thai hit song "farang keenok" .. about fruit , or something else ..grace us with your opinion/professional answer

plliiiiizz

can we consider it an exaple of derogatory use or not...

No need to say plliiiiizzzz.

So far I have never deliberately try to avoid any questions. I think this is the first time you ever asked me this one. So I am going to answer you. I have never heard this song. Can you give me a link to it? Who sings it?

NOW YOU HAVE NAILED ME TO THE GROUND SAM.. this is my 3rd post mentioning it(2nd was adressed to you!) ..

if YOU haven't heard it, just go ask your wife , sure most thais know the song .. anyway since in last post you've sort of agreed that it can be used in offencive manner no point to continue ..

Peace ..

My wife has not heard it. Anyway I will try to find it.

I can't recall you ever addressing to me on that question. Since I thought you weren't asking me directly and I have never heard it, why would I make any comment on it? Anyway I'll try.

[meemiathai]

Now all members hear can see the credibility of your claim of the negativity of the f word.

Sure thing, if I did indeed say anything different than that the word is neutral but commonly USED negatively, thus, the POLL RESULTS.

Do you hear the word Farang used by Thais in a derogatory way?

Always, its a slur word by definition [ 6 ] ** [4.35%]

Often [ 26 ] ** [18.84%]

Sometimes [ 45 ] ** [32.61%]

Seldom [ 41 ] ** [29.71%]

Never [ 20 ] ** [14.49%]

OK, folks, I am sure you will understand that I plan to NEVER respond to any post from MEEMEE again, OK? If I do, I am sure to go over the top and get banned here, so wish me luck in restraining ...

OK, I admit you did say the word is neutral. So I am wrong with this statement. But you are just playing with words, aren't you? You dare swear that you truly believe the word is neutral? I bet you don't. You simply have a grudge that so many have told you so you just have to find a way be it fair or not to prove us wrong.

Anyway, what is your conclusion then on the poll? Is there going to be any? Don't have to answer me if you don't want to. I don't really care. But you owe others the answer I think. I just can say I dare swear I have been honest for the whole time.

[meemiathai]

I did a search in youtube for the words "farang kee nok": result http://www.youtube.com/results?search_quer...m=0&spell=1

Then try to google it and these are the results: http://www.google.co.th/search?sourceid=na...=farang+kee+nok

[kojac_phx]

As a fluent Thai (Issan)/Laotian speaking American I can assure you that the word "Farang" is generally not used in a derogative manner. What's kind of funny is that the actual meaning of Farang (Fa-lung) really means "French person".

I would consider it derogatory to be called 'French' in any language.

It's a popular misconception that this is where farang came from, but I think there's been enough debate in the past here on TV and other places. If interested Google 'farang origin'. 'farangset' is actually a derivation from 'farang', not vice versa.

Most Asian languages have far more derogatory terms than 'farang' in Thai for Caucasians, 'gweilo' (white devil) in Cantonese comes to mind. I've only heard farang used negatively in tourist areas and my in-laws house.

[Jingthing]

Farang (in Thai: ฝรั่ง), sometimes pronounced falang, is the generic Thai word for a foreigner of European ancestry. While generally farang is a neutral word, it can be used in a mocking manner, or even as an insult depending on context.

WIKI: Right again!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farang

Edited December 3, 2007 by Jingthing

[seonai]

As PB said earlier, quit it with the personal attacks or this will be closed.

My own experience - until I'd been in Thailand several years, I used to 'imagine' that when people used the word Farang they were saying something not polite about me. After learning Thai I understood that it is just a general word!!!

I am interested in the word Khek - it simultaneously means Indian person/customer/and Muslim...

[PeaceBlondie]

555555

Who is obsessed with word farang now?????

The rabid passion in which some people who think the word is never used negatively hang on in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary is truly remarkable!

I'm not obsessed with the word, and I'm not rabid. Because I don't speak Thai (to use the terms in the topic title), I have never heard farang used by Thais in a derogatory way. And I'm not deaf. Nor do I see overwhelming evidence to the contrary (and I'm only half-blind!).

I think we hit the nail on the head when you said that you've heard it used in a derogatory style in Pattaya.

///Added: more than three times as many people (not including me, who mis-voted) have said "Never" as have said "Always." And the poll is relatively meaningless, in any event///

[cm-happy]

As PB said earlier, quit it with the personal attacks or this will be closed.

My own experience - until I'd been in Thailand several years, I used to 'imagine' that when people used the word Farang they were saying something not polite about me. After learning Thai I understood that it is just a general word!!!

I am interested in the word Khek - it simultaneously means Indian person/customer/and Muslim...

don't want to hijack the tread, but have looked in slang dictionaries for khek. no entries found.

seonai can you tell me your source please?

[meemiathai]

Farang (in Thai: ฝรั่ง), sometimes pronounced falang, is the generic Thai word for a foreigner of European ancestry. While generally farang is a neutral word, it can be used in a mocking manner, or even as an insult depending on context.

WIKI: Right again!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farang

LOOK AT THAT!

What are you implying then? What are you trying to prove?

I really accept different thinking. You can just say I don't care how they use it I just don't like it, then fine. But to pretentiously agree it is neutral and say you do not have a problem with it but trying the best to twist things is called dishonesty. Which is bad!

We come up here to discuss matters and views. We want to see that there are rational discussions here and sincerity that is why there are mods here to govern it so that no kid style postings are going to spoil this place. If seriously defined, I consider your posts to be trolls, but that is just my opinion.

[varun]

From my experiences here in the past 7 years, I've come to the following conclusions:

- If you're at restaurant / mall / hotel or any other public place for that matter, being referred to as a 'farang' is not meant to be offensive.

Thats just the way it is. It's an involuntary sort of reaction, the same as you would get elsewhere, being a foreigner addressed by a native.

' Hey Mariano, that Americano is waiting for his order, is it done yet? '

' Oi Stu, did the Yank finally show up? '

' Raj's mom's Aussie but Dad's curry!'

Simple as that. No need to get overly sensitive about it.

So, the Thai's use a blanket term for all foreigners, big deal.

However, if it's spoken in a professional work environment, it's implications are more often than not, offensive / derogatory.

At workplaces, most colleagues should refer to you by K. (your name) or even your first name.

During their discussions w/ other Thai's, if they ever refer to you as 'farang' or the equiv., they probably have an axe to grind.

[meemiathai]

As PB said earlier, quit it with the personal attacks or this will be closed.

My own experience - until I'd been in Thailand several years, I used to 'imagine' that when people used the word Farang they were saying something not polite about me. After learning Thai I understood that it is just a general word!!!

I am interested in the word Khek - it simultaneously means Indian person/customer/and Muslim...

don't want to hijack the tread, but have looked in slang dictionaries for khek. no entries found.

seonai can you tell me your source please?

It seems the word "khaek" has a bit of negativity in it but I'm not too sure. Let those who know more tell.

[meemiathai]

During a cross cultural session with members of our staff that had been scheduled in response to a blantent case of racism, the subject of 'Respectful and Disrespectful Langauge' came up.

The term 'Farang' was one that expatriates (and EuroThais) stated they objected to at which point we had to suffer a tyrade from a Thai member of staff complaining 'This is Thailand you don't tell Thai people how to speak.... if we want to use 'Farang' etc etc'.

The vitriol he poured out was evidence enough of why many expats and all the EuroThais objected the term and there after I never heard the term openly used in the office again.

----

As a Thai speaker it is my experience that the use of the word and the context in which it is used is frequently derogatory.

Something non Thai speakers will almost always miss.

I hear members here complaining all the time about how thais at work do not speak up. How they don't say anything even if they see something wrong. (Wonder why?)

We then see one here who dares to speak up. Who is out spoken. Who dares call a spade a spade. What does he get? His words are called "vitriol". If I was him I would've said exactly the same thing. I would have told them to "might as well teach crocodiles swim"!

Thais can't win, that's it.

[asiaworld]

I am interested in the word Khek - it simultaneously means Indian person/customer/and Muslim...

My dear seonai .. please , if you know any thais you can trust go and ask them about this word..it has nothing to do, with what you wrote, but used exclusively on south asians>indians, often thai citizens, meaning 'guest' (to show them how welcome they are here ) no wonder we don't hear it often ..

But alas you can see TV is in the unique situation , esp. this thread attracted a couple of "thai specialists", who feel urge to post on english language forum to show off their "profeciency in thai & undermine other's profeciency" . Now, as an example i am PR in Hungary, & can become citizen in no time , i wasn't born there & had to learn the language (which all may admit as unique & difficult,as thai ) .. But in no wet dream of mine, i would consider looking up english language forum & go there , bickering with other foreigners, proving i am more profecient, than they are .. Because i DON'T need to, i AM IntegrateD in & accepted 100%, with all the rights, of a citizen(except vote), so if i have any question, i'll ask my hungarian mates,& go have beer with them instead of "proving" myself to the bunch of foreigners , hope that helps to explain, how miserable this thai loving posters are in real life !!

[camerata]

My own experience - until I'd been in Thailand several years, I used to 'imagine' that when people used the word Farang they were saying something not polite about me.

Right on, seonai. Farang are very sensitive to being labelled in any way at all.

In every Internet forum I've seen, right back to the soc.culture.thai newsgroup in 1994, it seems that in general most of the folks who are paranoid about the word farang have an overly negative view of Thailand, whereas those who aren't tend to have a positive view of Thailand. It takes some investigation into the language and the culture to overcome this paranoia. And it's worth mentioning that there really isn't any other Thai word to describe Caucasians from the Western developed nations.

Just for the record, here's what my old mate, the sadly departed Gwyn Williams wrote about the word farang in the SCT FAQ:

From: Gwyn Williams

Date: 29 Mar 1994 04:24:21 +1000

ORIGIN OF THE WORD "FARANG"

A wide-spread belief in Thailand is that the word "farang" (Caucasian)

is derived from the French word "francais". This derivation is implausible

on phonetic and historical grounds. It is in fact a popular misconception.

It is true, however, that these words have the same ultimate source.

The word is attested in various forms in languages in Europe, Africa,

the Middle East, South Asia, and Southeast Asia. It is clear that the

word orginated as "Frank" in Europe and spread eastwards along Muslim

trade routes.

Thai most likely borrowed the word from influential Muslim Persian or

Indian traders in the 17th century or even earlier. The Persian word was

"farangg". The term probably was used to refer to early Portuguese

traders and subsequently to all Europeans (ie., non-Muslims).

It is possible that the Thai word "farangset" ("French") is a blend

of the word "farang" and the French word "francais", ie., "farangset" is

actually derived from "farang", not vice versa. Certainly, the word

"farang" existed prior to, and independently of, "farangset".

[Jingthing]

I also find the farang = French theory unbelievable.

[DirkGently]

It is fair to say that it is used both ways. It just depends on the adjective that comes before it, or after it I suppose in Thai.

Dirty Farang = Bad

Polite Farang = Good

The farang over there = Nothing at all

[meemiathai]

The word "farang" being used to insult an American on thai TV show

[GuestHouse]

I hear members here complaining all the time about how thais at work do not speak up. How they don't say anything even if they see something wrong. (Wonder why?)

Not from me you don't I frequently and consistently post on just how good our Thai staff are and how they do take part - I also frequently state that it is my experience that foreigners who undermine Thai capabilities and the contribution Thais can and do make in mixed Thai/Foreign businesses do so to protect their own positions in Thailand.

We then see one here who dares to speak up. Who is out spoken. Who dares call a spade a spade. What does he get? His words are called "vitriol". If I was him I would've said exactly the same thing. I would have told them to "might as well teach crocodiles swim"!

I chose the word vitriol, because that is what it was - language and sentiments that do not belong in a professional environment.

Nothing you have said in your scores of posts here on this thread indicates that you have any experience of working in a multinational/multicultural environment – If you had you would understand the need for ‘Mutual Respect’ and why the policy of asking people to examine their behaviour/language in terms of its impact on others is so effective at helping us all get along better.

It might even dawn on you that this is a two way street, that we ask all our staff to address their own behaviour and language – Absolutely not simply an assault on Thais.

If I was him I would've said exactly the same thing. I would have told them to "might as well teach crocodiles swim"!

I doubt very much you would – Or perhaps you’d feel the need to stand up and rant against what is being asked of yourself on behalf of others while ignoring what is being asked of others on behalf of yourself – That I can imagine.

Thais can't win, that's it.

Actually they can win and do win – Our policy of Respect and Diversity leaves all doors to opportunity open – And many of our Thai staff take advantage of the opportunities that this policy gives them. In our Thailand offices a Thai holds the GM post and the heads of all departments are Thai.

I don’t know the exact figure but there are somewhere around 35 of our Thai staff on international assignments around the world.

These opportunities are there for anyone within the organization who wants them and meets the requirement criteria (everything to do with Qualification and Ability – Nothing to do with Race. Gender, Age, Religion, Marital Status or Sexual Orientation).

‘Respect and Diversity’ is a win win policy and our Thai staff do a lot of winning.

Edited December 4, 2007 by GuestHouse

[meemiathai]

So after the discussion, what was the word given by the company to the thais to substitute the word "farang" when trying to describe "caucasian"?

And also just because your company does not allow the f word, you are saying that the f word is widely used in thailand in a negative manner? How do you explain it when it even is used on TV?

Do you at least agree if there is no reason for a thai to dislike you then most probably the farang word coming from his mouth is not meant offensive?