Has Being Gay In Thailand Changed You?

[Ijustwannateach]

Do you have any links to that research, Pawpcorn? I'd like to see how they concluded this.

[himachal]

Do you have any links to that research, Pawpcorn? I'd like to see how they concluded this.

Perhaps there could be a survey of gay and straight posters' standing in relation to their siblings?

[PeaceBlondie]

Do you have any links to that research, Pawpcorn? I'd like to see how they concluded this.

Perhaps there could be a survey of gay and straight posters' standing in relation to their siblings?

I rather doubt it. The sample would be too small, and anecdotal. I had no brothers, another poster I know was the older brother, etc. But if done correctly on a very large and broad scale, it might show something.

[dukkha]

GAY IN THAILAND FOR 8 YEARS....I AM WHAT I AM....BUT AS GAY MEN IN THAILAND WE ARE AWARE OF THE NOTION THAT SEXUALITY HERE HAS A GREATER BLUR THAN THOSE OF US FOM WESTERN CULTURES...BUT IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT BEING GAY HERE IS NOT WITHOUT ITS PROBLEMS, ESPECIALLY FOR GAY THAI MEN...WE WILL ALWAYS FACE DIFFICUTIES...IT IS A MYTH THAT THAILAND IS SOME KIND OF NIRVARNA FOR THOSE OF US WHO ARE GAY..HERE THE FARANG IS APT TO SEE IT AS A PARADISE, I CAN ASSURE YOU IT IS NOT THE CASE...THIS IS A LAND OF ECONOMIC REFUGEES...INEQUALITY IS ALIVE AND THRIVING....THE MAJOR CHANGE IS THAT AT OVER 60 YOU ARE NOT DUMPED ON THE HEAP OF 'NOT BEING DESIRABLE'....YOU BEING DESIRABLE IS AS COMPLICATED AS TRYING TO UNERSTAND WHAT IT IS THAT THAIS FIND YOU DESIRABLE....BEsT LEFT TO 'NOT KNOWING'....Dukkha

[dukkha]

Pardon the caps lock, was not meant to be, my error, apologies... Dukkha

[Pawpcorn]

Do you have any links to that research, Pawpcorn? I'd like to see how they concluded this.

Sorry so slow in responding! For some reason I'm not getting email notifications of new postings... well here goes... the following link brought up the text below, but wanted payment for the full article; haven't had time yet to dig deeper, but I had read the research originally in newspapers, back in the states, a few years ago... here's the hyperlink:

http://www.questia.com/googleScholar.qst;j...ocId=5001921648

and another here:

http://www.popline.org/docs/304016

Recent Research on Sexual Orientation and Fraternal Birth Order

Journal article by Anthony F. Bogaert; The Canadian Journal of Human Sexuality, Vol. 11, 2002

Journal Article Excerpt

Recent research on sexual orientation and fraternal birth order.

by Anthony F. Bogaert

ABSTRACT: Number of older brothers (or "fraternal" birth order) predicts a homosexual orientation in men but not in women. In this paper, I review recent research on the fraternal birth order effect. For example, I present a recent study using two national probability samples that indicates that number of older brothers increases homosexual attraction but not homosexual behaviour/experience in men. In addition, I present a study using Canadian data indicating that fraternal birth order may interact with height to predict sexual orientation in men such that a homosexual orientation is most likely to occur in men who have a high number of older brothers and a shorter stature. Results of these and other recent studies are discussed in relation to biological and psychosocial theories of the fraternal birth order effect.

Key words: Sexual orientation Birth order

ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS: This research was supported by a Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council of Canada Grant (# 410-99-0521) to Anthony F. Bogaert. The author wishes to thank Ray Blanchard, Andre Bradley, John Cairney, Carolyn Hafer, Cathy Hopkins, Catharine Irwin, Sarah Rose, and Stan Sadava for their help at various stages of this research. This article is adapted from a paper presented at the Canadian Sex Research Forum meeting in Toronto, September 2002.

INTRODUCTION...

[Pawpcorn]

Do you have any links to that research, Pawpcorn? I'd like to see how they concluded this.

Oh, I found this too... I hope this doesn't qualify as "too much information"... But I think this shows I wasn't just "shooting from the hip" (so to speak, ha!) or making it up...!!! Note the underlined item below. Take care, all... Pawpcorn

From the "Council for Responcible Genetics"... Genetic Determinism and Sexual Orientation Bibliography

at: http://www.gene-watch.org/programs/determi...bliography.html

http://' target="_blank">G. Fraternal Birth Order Effect

Blanchard, R. and A. F. Bogaert. 1996. Homosexuality in men and number of older brothers. American Journal ofPsychiatry. 153(1): 27–31.

• This study utilized a sample of 302 self-identified homosexual males and 302 heterosexual males matched by date of birth. Findings indicated that homosexual males had a higher ratio of older brothers than the heterosexuals. Each additional brother increased chances of homosexuality by 33%. Sibling sex ratio in the two groups was not different than in the general population. The authors suggest a possible maternal immune response or presence of the H-Y antigen as possible causes.

Blanchard, R.; K. J. Zucker; S. J. Bradley; et al. 1995. Birth order and sibling sex ratio in homosexualmale adolescents and probably pre-homosexual feminine boys. Developmental Psychology. 31(1): 22-30.

• The authors studied two groups of 56 males recruited from a psychiatric unit. One group was labeled pre-homosexual and one group was being treated for psychiatric disorders unrelated to sexual orientation. The groups were matched based on number of siblings and age. Findings indicated that the group labeled pre-homosexual had a greater than average number of older male siblings.

Blanchard, R. 1997. Birth order and sibling sex ratio in homosexual versus heterosexual males and females. AnnualReview of Sex Research. 8: 27-67.

• This review of research discusses the different psychological and biological theories of the birth order effect. The author concludes that there is no such effect for females.

Blanchard, R. and A. F. Bogaert. 1997. Additive effects of older brothers and homosexual brothers in the prediction ofmarriage and cohabitation. Behavior Genetics. 27(1): 45-54.

Blanchard, R. and P. Klassen. 1997. H-Y antigen and homosexuality in men. Journal of Theoretical Biolog.y. 185: 373-378.

• The authors discuss how the H-Y antigen theory of homosexuality is consistent with the birth order effect.

Blanchard, R. and L. Ellis. 2001. Birth weight, sexual orientation and the sex of preceding siblings. Journal of Biosocial Science. Vol. 33: 451-467.

• This study of 3229 adult men and women found that males with older brothers weigh less than males without older brothers, and self-identified homosexual males weighed less than heterosexual males. No correlations were found for women and birth weight.

Blanchard, R. 2001. Fraternal birth order and the maternal immune hypothesis of male homosexuality. Hormones and Behavior. 40: 105-114.

Blanchard, R.; K. J. Zucker; A. Cavacas; et al. 2002. Fraternal birth order and birth weight in probably pre-homosexual feminine boys. Hormones and Behavior. 41: 321-327.

Blanchard, R. 2004. Quantitative and theoretical analyses of the relation between older brothers and homosexuality in men. Journal of Theoretical Biology. 230: 173-187.

• The author conducted a meta-analysis of 14 samples with 10,413 males. Results showed a higher number of older brothers for self-identified homosexual males.

Bogaert, A. F. 1997. Birth order and sexual orientation in women. Behavioral Neuroscience. 111(6): 1395–1397.

• This paper discusses the birth order effect on sexual orientation in females based on a sample of 257 self-identified homosexual and 5,008 self-identified heterosexual females. No significant birth order effect was found.

Bogaert, A. F.; S. Bezeau; M. Kuban; et al. 1997. Pedophilia, sexual orientation, and birth order. Journal of Abnormal Psychology. 106(2.): 331-335.

• This study utilized 338 pedophiles. Findings indicate that self-identified homosexual pedophiles had later sibling birth order than self-identified heterosexual pedophiles.

Bogaert, A. F. 1998. Birth order and sibling sex ratio in homosexual and heterosexual non-White men. Archives ofSexual Behavior. 27(5): 467–473.

Bogaert, A. F. 2000. Birth order and sexual orientation in a national probability sample. The Journal of Sex Research. 37(4): 361-368.

Bogaert, A. F. 2002. Recent research on sexual orientation and fraternal birth order. The Canadian Journal of Human Sexuality. 11(2): 101-107.

• This is a review article of research done on the fraternal birth order effect in male sexual orientation. It explores both biological and psychosocial explanations for this effect.

Bogaert, A. F. 2003. Interaction of older brothers and sex-typing in the prediction of sexual orientation in men. Archives of Sexual Behavior. 32(2): 129-134.

Cantor, J. M.; R. Blanchard; A. D. Paterson; et al. 2002. How many gay men owe their sexual orientation to fraternal birth order? Archives of Sexual Behavior. 31(1): 63-67.

• This study attempts to determine the percentage of homosexual men the birth order effect accounts for.

[Pawpcorn]

One more addendum (and last one, I promise)... from the same source as above... and please forgive me guys, but this was kinda interesting...eh?

http://' target="_blank">P. Penis Length

Bogaert, A. F. and S. Hershberger. 1999. The relation between sexual orientation and penile size. Archives of Sexual Behavior. 28(3): 213-321.

• This study utilized a sample of 5122 males and found that the self-identified homosexual men had larger penises than the heterosexual men.
  

[Ijustwannateach]

Thanks, Pawpcorn! There's never too much of this kind of information!! :D

[himachal]

One more addendum (and last one, I promise)... from the same source as above... and please forgive me guys, but this was kinda interesting...eh?

P. Penis Length

Bogaert, A. F. and S. Hershberger. 1999. The relation between sexual orientation and penile size. Archives of Sexual Behavior. 28(3): 213-321.

• This study utilized a sample of 5122 males and found that the self-identified homosexual men had larger penises than the heterosexual men.
  

Would gays with short dicks volunteer for this survey?

And who identified the hetties, I wonder?

.........interesting nevertheless. Thanks PC

[Kaojai]

That's interesting Peekint that you seem to paint Thailand as a kind of gay liberation paradise. I don't think Thai gays see it quite the same way. But it sounds like it is a great match for you, so congratulations.

There is an article in the online Bangkok Post entitled "Being Gay is OK," which I thought might be a movement in the right direction as far as improving attitudes within Thai society was concerned. http://www.bangkokpost.com/080508_Mylife/0...8_family000.php

Instead, it sounds more like a rather poor school essay written by someone who hasn't a clue. Frank (certainly a typical Thai name ) apparently discovers his sexual orientation at age 4 years , facing the fact that he didn't like playing football, but did like wearing high heels. A real indepth report on the experience from both the boy's perspective and that of his parents. Sad that someone saw the value of the idea and then it turned out to be a meaningless space-filler.

Being gay is okay

Parents should realise that having homosexual children is not a shameful thing

By ANJIRA ASSAVANONDA

At the age of 21, a boy called Frank and a girl called Muk have defined themselves as homosexuals. Unlike many others, the two do not hide their status. Thanks to the love and understanding of their parents, they can be open and proud of being what they are.

A gay boy's story

Frank discovered he was different from other boys when he was about four or five years old.

"I didn't like playing with boys. I didn't like sports which males are normally good at, such as football. I felt they are too violent. At home, I liked to wear a hairband, and often put on my mum's high-heel shoes," recounted Frank.

When he grew up, Frank realised he was gay, but did not dare tell his family for fear that his parents would not be able to accept the truth.

"My family seemed to notice my behaviour, but they never talked to me openly and I didn't dare bring it up," said Frank.

His solution was to be reserved at home, and bring out his true nature in school. It was tough pretending to be a man, when deep down inside he knew that he really was gay.

When he entered his teens, Frank found it harder to resist his own nature.

"I felt really bad that I couldn't be my parents' good son," Frank lamented. "I suffered hiding myself until my mother could not see me control myself any longer. She told me to be whatever I wanted to be, as long as I'm a good person and didn't get involved with bad things," said Frank.

His mother's words have freed him from the invisible cage that captured him since childhood. Now, Frank never hides the fact that he is gay. He introduced his boyfriend to his mum, and they both have been getting along well. He is now happy with his way.

[ProThaiExpat]

The following choice of words were so indicative of clueless journalism that I wrote the editor of that section regarding it.

"His solution was to be reserved at home, and bring out his true nature in school. It was tough pretending to be a man, when deep down inside he knew that he really was gay."

I felt the implication that gays were not men as being insulting although I suspect the language barrier and the general Thai concept that gays were a thrid sex might have something to do with it.

The Editor responded immediately and apologised remarking that they "were trying"

The accompaning "book report" had another off the mark comment that stated in effect that the Thai parents of gays realize that they have a son that will never be a leader or famous.

The editors response seemed to think they were doing a good thing on the whole, whil my thought was they were perpetuating myths.

[Ijustwannateach]

It ignores history, too- several very important leaders of Thailand in the 20th century have been gay- not just a rumour, either, but in the history books (though to be safe by forum rules we probably still shouldn't name them).