Two Israelis Arrested With 23,000 Ecstasy Pills

[ukjackthai]

23000 X 800 = 18,400,000 THB ... Was it worth the risk? Wonder what the PoPo is going to do with all those jills...

Comit the crime - countenance the consequence = No sympathy from me!!!

But i must add; most who do slang start out of sheer desperation and when that desperation is over it just turns into greed.

Edited December 9, 2007 by ukjackthai

[scaramangax12]

It is actually classed as more harmful/ addictive than cocaine, and in exactly the same league as crack and heroin. If you need to delude yourself to give you a sense of virtuosity then you probably have a bigger problem than you think.

Ha ha ye ok maybe it is just that you have never done any of the above drugs so you just would not know, E was first created as a drug to help troubled relationships ACTUALLY ! get ya facts straight E is no where near crack, meth, coke or brown. MUG

Edited December 9, 2007 by scaramangax12

[ukjackthai]

It is actually classed as more harmful/ addictive than cocaine, and in exactly the same league as crack and heroin. If you need to delude yourself to give you a sense of virtuosity then you probably have a bigger problem than you think.

Ha ha ye ok maybe it is just that you have never done any of the above drugs so you just would not know, E was first created as a drug to help troubled relationships ACTUALLY ! get ya facts straight E is no where near crack, meth, coke or brown. MUG

So what are you trying to say? You have tried everything on the table?

Anyway, I presume he was writing about the classification of drugs here in Thailand an NOT how "near" it is to crack, meth coke or brown.

[Keithangel]

these people

Chloe, what do you mean by "these people" specifically? Are you saying the two perps were part of a specific gang or mafia? Would you care to elaborate because the term these people leaves a bit too much to the imagination.

Yes 'these people' who have been taken in to cutody are part of a global mafia organization with involvement in Drugs, gun running, people trafficking, extortion, kidnapping etc etc.

Chloe.

Oh they work for the C.I.A.

[endure]

Let's keep it civil please.

[mikethevigoman]

I have been working in substance misuse as a professional for 15 years in the UK (first as a therapist and more recently as a commissioner of drug services in London and development manager for rehabilitation centres) and feel I would like to add a couple of thoughts about ecstacy.

First of all in the UK if you want to go to rehab there is funding available (not enough but thats another subject) or you can go privately if you have the funds. My experience is with government funding not private. In 15 years I have never seen or heard of anyone who got funded to go to residential rehab for ecstacy.

It is psychologically not physical addictive (though psychosymatic physical effects maybe felt) and stopping using is not too difficult with some short term counselling. However due to the criminalisation of drug manufacture and underlying mental health issues people do end up in trouble psychologically through ecstacy use. And people do die. Roughly 20 per year which is a quarter of those who die from peanut consumption. When you consider the vast numbers of people who use e this is very very small.

130,000 people die each year as a direct result of smoking and 30,000 from alcohol in the UK.

If you want E's you have to go out and get them, you have to make an effort. The myth of drugs being available everywhere is just that; a myth. You have to know the people generally. It is not that easy to just buy drugs (outside of a few drug markets in major cities). But people do make the effort and always will. Therefore people will always try to fill that market. Those 2 lads have just ruined their lives for a bit of money. But make the punishment fit the crime.

The poster who want to behead them with blunt swords need to have a look at their self. Its people like this who allowed facism to take hold. Actually wanting to torture and kill and being open about it!! Boy are you one sick puppy!!

I know drugs ruin lives, I have been working to help the victims, who have all been willing victims I would add. They may have been running from areas in their lives that are worse but I have yet to meet the person who didn't know that heroin or crack was a very good way to end up in trouble. But killing dealers doesn't work, nor does imprisoning them for 50 years. There is always someone willing to take the risk through poverty, greed or exploitation. And its only the small fry who get caught. Perhaps if the top guys were targeted a long sentence would be more appropriate but it would not stop it as the market will always want the product.

There is a very good argument for legalisation and control that would take forever to type. However Angry and sadistic of Tunbridge Wells would not have any fun thinking of tortures for the dealers then. Maybe we could start sharia law on people who drop litter.

Another point this addictive personality thing that people often drop into the debate. THERE IS NO PROOF!!!!

Great post, . i dont condemn or approve drugs, its a personal thing, and i dont think the govenrments give a toss about death /sickness as a result of drug abuse,, no. i consider its all the spare money floating about associated with the drug trade they want to keep tabs on,.

[mikethevigoman]

I would say those who take more than a few a night have mental problems themselves in the first place and those who take them everyday are just crazy and irresponsible.

There are crazy people in this world who cannot control themselves and would rape women. Does that mean we should lock all women up to protect them?

This is exactly right, we all know people who go out and have 2 beers and go home and we all know someone who will stay out til everything closes or is drank dry,these are the same people that would probably be the same on any mind altering substance, and yes that includes Es and booze,.

[mesohappy314]

Lets not forget that people (mainly young people) have died from using this drug...

Don't they actually deserve to?

They are actually helping this evil act to exist within the human race!

My say is anyone who is involved with illegal drugs should be tortured to death and shown on TV!

How strange it is that people who smokes in non-smoking areas only get to pay a fine? They should be killed too. I think same logic.

I can't tell if you're joking. I hope so. Anyone who has taken e knows that the word evil is . . . far from the right word.

[mesohappy314]

Yes, of course, the very illegality does add to the danger.

When you buy a street drug, there is no way to know if it is real, pure, poison, etc. Plus the violence among the illegal traders.

When such drugs are made legal, sometimes more people do take them which societies do consider undesirable, so it is always a trade off.

Alcohol again a good example, very legal, very abused, directly responsible for millions of deaths. But usually the drink itself is pure and safe in moderation, the users abuse it and/or get addicted to it and kill themselves.

Totally agree!

[tokyosheep]

I'd like to say something about being sorry for them poor stupid misguided guys what with the hel_l they're going to face but I can't.

I agree with seonai, they're prats and I hope they get a nice long term in the BKK Hilton so they can reassess their lifestyle.

your must be really dull for you to say something like that perhapsyou should access yours.

I hope you know that most get away with it, and look at people like you as the real losers... they,ve got a point

[bina]

emporer thud

well obviously the information that i have is different from what u have; i'm sure that the anti drug groups are slightly paranoid and exaggerate but i dont doubt that their basic info is correct (al saam - i.e. the anti drug group here working with teens)... and since i havent done drugs since i moved to israel i'm not up on the latest chemicals apart from what friends who are into the E thing tell me... (30+ age group ). most stopped when they got married and started making babies. they also stopped smoking and drinking. those that continue on a steady basis seem to be lost causes from the start. possibily what also goes into the pills here may cause additional side affects; and it is very very easy to get here (to the person who says u have to go out and look for drugs)--

and again, if they were a group of kids backpacking and got caught with a few for the next full moon party, that is one thing, but 'get rich quick' schemes and lots of pills, well... u do the crime u do the time and yes this goes for my own kids as well. no, i wouldnt want them to rot in jail, or be beheaded, but definately there are consequences for breaking laws. as for not going to the army, if my kids refuse, they go to jail. i would support their decision but hope they were making that decision based on moral consequences and not try to get out of army by sneaky conniving means but as real objectors standing up for what they believe. by the way,as a child i attended a quaker high school run by conscientious objectors.

now theres another drug thread running about french drug smugglers, interesting to see what people are saying there?...

still no mention here in the news unless it was a little blurb... and people always point out to me things that happen in thailand involving israelis (worried parent syndrome) as if i was the expert on these things....

meemiathai, )

bina

israel

edit: mixed up nationalities

Edited December 10, 2007 by bina

[Prakanong]

I have been working in substance misuse as a professional for 15 years in the UK (first as a therapist and more recently as a commissioner of drug services in London and development manager for rehabilitation centres) and feel I would like to add a couple of thoughts about ecstacy.

First of all in the UK if you want to go to rehab there is funding available (not enough but thats another subject) or you can go privately if you have the funds. My experience is with government funding not private. In 15 years I have never seen or heard of anyone who got funded to go to residential rehab for ecstacy.

It is psychologically not physical addictive (though psychosymatic physical effects maybe felt) and stopping using is not too difficult with some short term counselling. However due to the criminalisation of drug manufacture and underlying mental health issues people do end up in trouble psychologically through ecstacy use. And people do die. Roughly 20 per year which is a quarter of those who die from peanut consumption. When you consider the vast numbers of people who use e this is very very small.

130,000 people die each year as a direct result of smoking and 30,000 from alcohol in the UK.

If you want E's you have to go out and get them, you have to make an effort. The myth of drugs being available everywhere is just that; a myth. You have to know the people generally. It is not that easy to just buy drugs (outside of a few drug markets in major cities). But people do make the effort and always will. Therefore people will always try to fill that market. Those 2 lads have just ruined their lives for a bit of money. But make the punishment fit the crime.

The poster who want to behead them with blunt swords need to have a look at their self. Its people like this who allowed facism to take hold. Actually wanting to torture and kill and being open about it!! Boy are you one sick puppy!!

I know drugs ruin lives, I have been working to help the victims, who have all been willing victims I would add. They may have been running from areas in their lives that are worse but I have yet to meet the person who didn't know that heroin or crack was a very good way to end up in trouble. But killing dealers doesn't work, nor does imprisoning them for 50 years. There is always someone willing to take the risk through poverty, greed or exploitation. And its only the small fry who get caught. Perhaps if the top guys were targeted a long sentence would be more appropriate but it would not stop it as the market will always want the product.

There is a very good argument for legalisation and control that would take forever to type. However Angry and sadistic of Tunbridge Wells would not have any fun thinking of tortures for the dealers then. Maybe we could start sharia law on people who drop litter.

Another point this addictive personality thing that people often drop into the debate. THERE IS NO PROOF!!!!

At last - a bit of rationality injected into the thread!

Now you will have me looking into the addictive personality thing - did find this which is fun - will have the AA boys pulling their hair out

http://www.addictioninfo.org/articles/1043...lity/Page1.html

[parmi]

Two Israelis arrested in Thailand for possession of 23,000 Ecstasy pills

Two Israelis were arrested Tuesday in Thailand after police found 23,000 Ecstasy pills in their possession, the foreign ministry said Friday. Israeli Consul Hanoch Amadi in Bangkok said he expected the two to be held for a long time for drug-dealing.

The two were arrested during a wide-scale police operation on Kwasan Street * Khao San Road * in Bangkok, where many Israeli tourists tend to congregate. Police also arrested a number of other Israelis at the same time, but some were released on bail and the others were released when it was clear they had no connection to the drug deal.

Amadi, who is in contact with the local authorities, told the foreign ministry that the two arrested are receiving legal aid. The foreign ministry updated the families of the two Israelis about their arrest.

- Haaretz (Israel)

===============================================================================

Two Israelis arrested with 23,000 Ecstasy pills

Two Israelis were arrested in Thailand on Friday after police caught them with 23,000 Ecstasy pills, Army Radio reported.

According to the report, the two Israelis are suspected of selling drugs in the United States, Japan, Australia and New Zealand. They were arrested along with other Israelis in a large police raid in Bangkok. All of the other detainees were later released.

The arrests were made after police in Thailand received intelligence from sources in the US.

The Israeli embassy in Bangkok appointed a lawyer for the suspects, who are now awaiting trial.

- Jerusalem Post

===============================================================================

Thai police nab Israeli drug suspects after US DEA tip

BANGKOK -- Two Israeli nationals have been arrested on charges of trafficking more than 10,000 ''Ecstasy'' pills reportedly destined for the United States, Japan, Australia and New Zealand, Thai authorities announced Thursday.

The Israelis, identified as Alan Macloff and Vladimir Acronik, were arrested by narcotics police in Khao San Road area of Bangkok after they had allegedly brought the drugs from a European country.

The police operated on a tip from the US Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA), which had earlier sought the suspected Israeli drug traffickers.

- MCOT

First off, one sounds english and the other russian,but either way i wish these idiots all the luck in the world when they start their 100 yr sentence,they will need more than esctasy ,

on a more serious side. i just wish these drug dealing aholes would stay the hel_l away from thailand and give the good law abiding farangs a chance.that goes for the kiddie fiddlers and any other freak that thinks thailand is a good hidding place.

To the parents of these two idiots, you better send your boys a good stock of KY, they gonna need it.

Edited December 10, 2007 by parmi

[Jingthing]

one sounds english and the other russian

???

Macloff is a Russian Jewish name. For future reference, anything with an ending of off often has a Russian connection.

[Seneque]

And I thought an ex-PM who launched a war on drugs (dealers I believe) claimed total victory ...

There are some pockets of resistance then ...

[highdiver]

one sounds english and the other russian

???

Macloff is a Russian Jewish name. For future reference, anything with an ending of off often has a Russian connection.

no it is not!! Machloff is a typical Morocan jewsih name or a north African jewish name.

[gburns57au]

On News.com today....

A GOLD Coast teenager who supplied some of the ecstasy pills which killed her best friend has avoided a conviction being recorded against her.

Kimberley Anne Sellieck, 18, of Robina, was sentenced to two years probation and 75 hours' community service today when she appeared in Southport Magistrates Court.

She pleaded guilty to three counts of supplying a dangerous drug following the death of her close friend Blair Elizabeth Vaina, 18, of Austinville, on August 18.

Ms Vaina died after a drug overdose while on a fishing trip with friends near Jabiru Island on the Gold Coast.

In October, Sellieck's boyfriend Benjamin William Hill, 19, of Hollywell, was sentenced to two years' probation and 200 hours' community service after pleading guilty to four counts of supplying a dangerous drug.

The court was told Hill had arranged to meet Ms Vaina and her boyfriend at a pool hall in Mermaid Beach earlier on the day of the fishing trip and had sold her four ecstasy tablets for $100.

Sellieck's solicitor Jason Murakami said today that Ms Vaina had taken three of the pills before receiving another two from his client later on.

He said Ms Vaina had been hallucinating before taking the extra pills, telling Sellieck "you have a black bar and a cross on your head".

Ms Vaina allegedly told Sellieck she had wanted to keep up with her 17-year-old boyfriend, who also collapsed after taking the ecstasy, but survived.

While describing Ms Vaina's death as a "traumatic and unfortunate incident", Mr Murakami said Sellieck had not supplied the ecstasy tablets to make any money.

"It's become culturally accepted for teenagers to take ecstasy tablets," he said.

"The group had been taking them regularly for 12 months. Someone else could've been sitting here (in the court) and my client could have passed away."

In sentencing, Magistrate Catherine Pirie told Sellieck: "Tragically this represents a problem that seems to me is not uncommon in the community.

"Groups of young people get together and take ecstasy tablets on weekends.

"I hope this is a clear lesson to all young people, as well as yourself, about the tragic consequences that can apply to this type of behaviour."

Now tell me it doesnt kill.....

[mikethevigoman]

On News.com today....

A GOLD Coast teenager who supplied some of the ecstasy pills which killed her best friend has avoided a conviction being recorded against her.

Kimberley Anne Sellieck, 18, of Robina, was sentenced to two years probation and 75 hours' community service today when she appeared in Southport Magistrates Court.

She pleaded guilty to three counts of supplying a dangerous drug following the death of her close friend Blair Elizabeth Vaina, 18, of Austinville, on August 18.

Ms Vaina died after a drug overdose while on a fishing trip with friends near Jabiru Island on the Gold Coast.

In October, Sellieck's boyfriend Benjamin William Hill, 19, of Hollywell, was sentenced to two years' probation and 200 hours' community service after pleading guilty to four counts of supplying a dangerous drug.

The court was told Hill had arranged to meet Ms Vaina and her boyfriend at a pool hall in Mermaid Beach earlier on the day of the fishing trip and had sold her four ecstasy tablets for $100.

Sellieck's solicitor Jason Murakami said today that Ms Vaina had taken three of the pills before receiving another two from his client later on.

He said Ms Vaina had been hallucinating before taking the extra pills, telling Sellieck "you have a black bar and a cross on your head".

Ms Vaina allegedly told Sellieck she had wanted to keep up with her 17-year-old boyfriend, who also collapsed after taking the ecstasy, but survived.

While describing Ms Vaina's death as a "traumatic and unfortunate incident", Mr Murakami said Sellieck had not supplied the ecstasy tablets to make any money.

"It's become culturally accepted for teenagers to take ecstasy tablets," he said.

"The group had been taking them regularly for 12 months. Someone else could've been sitting here (in the court) and my client could have passed away."

In sentencing, Magistrate Catherine Pirie told Sellieck: "Tragically this represents a problem that seems to me is not uncommon in the community.

"Groups of young people get together and take ecstasy tablets on weekends.

"I hope this is a clear lesson to all young people, as well as yourself, about the tragic consequences that can apply to this type of behaviour."

Now tell me it doesnt kill.....

Unfortunatly an overdose of almost any drug will kill, these cases are few and far between,( death from esctasy ) does anyone remember the leah betts case in the uk ? ,. this girl took 5 ecstasy !,i see that no different to drinking a bottle of whisky and dying of alcohol posioning,.its an overdose period,.im not a druggie and i am not a heavy drinker,but ill bet a pound to a penny the effects of long term drink abuse are worse than esctacy,.these guys selling drugs arent pushers, the kids love em !,.again i dont condone it but i see this as an illicit business not someone out to cause death, .heroin, yes, es, i dont think so,.

[gburns57au]

If the drug was not available....she wouldnt have died...

cant put it more simpler than that.

[mikethevigoman]

If the drug was not available....she wouldnt have died...

cant put it more simpler than that.

But she overdosed, . what about if it had been booze. would that have been ok ?.. do a search and see how many kids die every weekend from alcohol related problems,why isnt booze banned ? we all know the answer to that one,... its a sad case whatever a loved one dies from but some of this is self inflicted,.i went theough a stage as a kid trying everthing i could get hold of ( except heroin ) no one pushed me into anything, we wanted it,. luckily i grew out of it and i dont have an addictive problem with anything, even in my drinking days it was weekends and back to work on monday, i knew my limits and didnt overstep,.even if es were legal you would still get the odd death from it, there is always people that will abuse, glue ? thats not banned, kills way more people than es !

[onlooker]

Ban Coffee too . . . . You'd be dead if you drank 78 cups of McDonalds coffee ( Large size)

Death by Caffeine

[mikethevigoman]

Ban Coffee too . . . . You'd be dead if you drank 78 cups of McDonalds coffee ( Large size)

Death by Caffeine

A lot less would kill me . i have high blood pressure,. Edited December 10, 2007 by mikethevigoman

[Johpa]

one sounds english and the other russian

???

Macloff is a Russian Jewish name. For future reference, anything with an ending of off often has a Russian connection.

no it is not!! Machloff is a typical Morocan jewsih name or a north African jewish name.

I could have sworn it was a name from the Eastern branch of the Black Irish.

[LivinLOS]

Lets not forget that people (mainly young people) have died from using this drug...

And the many, many more people who have died of Thai whisky.

You can ABUSE any drug and more people die of alchohol than any other drug.

Ok....explain abuse....one young girl here died after taking one tablet, one time....she was not a hardcore user...She just didnt know the effect it would have on her....of course the dealer told her about the dangers...didnt he ???

FACT : More people die from eating peanuts than eating E's..

(Seems quite a few people are allergic to peanuts.. Very very very few are to eating MDMA)

[sgunn65]

At last - a bit of rationality injected into the thread!

Now you will have me looking into the addictive personality thing - did find this which is fun - will have the AA boys pulling their hair out

http://www.addictioninfo.org/articles/1043...lity/Page1.html

An excellent article thank you.

I feel compelled to make a couple of further points around drugs, their potency and their availability. Please be aware that I speak only of the UK for that is where my knowledge lies. Bina posts that drugs are freely available in Israel. I cannot comment on that. What I do know is that in the UK (LOndon is my area of knowledge) people will tell you that drugs are everywhere. But even of they are can you get hold of them? Try walking up to someone and asking for them. However if you know someone who knows someone its different.

Another poster points to an ecstacy death as proof drugs kill. Drugs do kill but in very small numbers. Last year in the UK approx 900 people died as a direct result of drug taking, that included heroin and crack. Of those 20 were from E's. Given that approx 500,000 tablets are consumed every week it works out to just under 1 in a million. You are more likely to die from lightning.

Most ecstacy deaths are related to people not taking precautions so they overheat or drink too much. This is what kills them not the MDMA. This is why the drug charities try to give out good harm reduction advice. On the basis that if young people are going to do drugs make it as safe as possible.

The other danger is the fact that from pill to pill you don't know what you will be receiving as they are made in illegal labs and can be cut with a wide variety of other drugs, notably ketamine and recently methamphetamine. When you drink a bottle of singha you can guarantee that each one will contain the same amount of alcohol. You cannot do that with drugs. This is a case for legalisation and government control.

The bottom line with drugs is that people take them because they are fun, a bit dangerous and they are generally young people who are going to live forever and want to rebel. Nothing I say will change that. Psycho of Tunbridge Wells with his junior torture kit will not change it. Concerned parents will not change it. We have always sought out mind altering substances and we always will! The pontificating <deleted> who sit there with a fag in one hand and a G&T in the other suggesting death and dismemberment should remember this: Making a drug illegal is just an accident of history. Queen Victoria was a regular user of cannabis for her period pains (it is recognised as a good remedy for glaucoma too). In the States in 1900 coffee was considered the curse of youth. And let us not forget prohibition.

So while some of you condemn these boys remember that in another era your whisky might have got you the same. There but for the grace of God etc..

Finally do read the article on addiction. The myth of the addictive personality is just that; a myth. A convenient excuse to say " Its not my fault". Well heres the news. If you get addicted to drugs it is your fault. Unless you are Popeye Doyle (see the French Connection)! You took the drugs so take responsibility for that and for changing. Some of you who adhere to the 12 step logic will not agree. So be it. A disease is MS not drug addiction, no-one actively seeks MS. When you take responsibility for yourself you can acheive amazing things. I do not introduce my self as a bed wetter who hasn't wet the bed in 40 odd years so why would I introduce myself as a drug addict who hasn't used in 17 years? Once you stop taking drugs you become an ex user just like smoking.

Just to clarify I have been in the business for 15 years and before that had 15 years on the other side of the fence so I feel I have a fairly rounded knowledge of the UK drug scene.

Another long rant over. Bring on the long knives (blunt preferably).

[mikethevigoman]

Lets not forget that people (mainly young people) have died from using this drug...

And the many, many more people who have died of Thai whisky.

You can ABUSE any drug and more people die of alchohol than any other drug.

Ok....explain abuse....one young girl here died after taking one tablet, one time....she was not a hardcore user...She just didnt know the effect it would have on her....of course the dealer told her about the dangers...didnt he ???

FACT : More people die from eating peanuts than eating E's..

(Seems quite a few people are allergic to peanuts.. Very very very few are to eating MDMA)

The government is too lazy, to legalise it !..

[mikethevigoman]

At last - a bit of rationality injected into the thread!

Now you will have me looking into the addictive personality thing - did find this which is fun - will have the AA boys pulling their hair out

http://www.addictioninfo.org/articles/1043...lity/Page1.html

An excellent article thank you.

I feel compelled to make a couple of further points around drugs, their potency and their availability. Please be aware that I speak only of the UK for that is where my knowledge lies. Bina posts that drugs are freely available in Israel. I cannot comment on that. What I do know is that in the UK (LOndon is my area of knowledge) people will tell you that drugs are everywhere. But even of they are can you get hold of them? Try walking up to someone and asking for them. However if you know someone who knows someone its different.

Another poster points to an ecstacy death as proof drugs kill. Drugs do kill but in very small numbers. Last year in the UK approx 900 people died as a direct result of drug taking, that included heroin and crack. Of those 20 were from E's. Given that approx 500,000 tablets are consumed every week it works out to just under 1 in a million. You are more likely to die from lightning.

Most ecstacy deaths are related to people not taking precautions so they overheat or drink too much. This is what kills them not the MDMA. This is why the drug charities try to give out good harm reduction advice. On the basis that if young people are going to do drugs make it as safe as possible.

The other danger is the fact that from pill to pill you don't know what you will be receiving as they are made in illegal labs and can be cut with a wide variety of other drugs, notably ketamine and recently methamphetamine. When you drink a bottle of singha you can guarantee that each one will contain the same amount of alcohol. You cannot do that with drugs. This is a case for legalisation and government control.

The bottom line with drugs is that people take them because they are fun, a bit dangerous and they are generally young people who are going to live forever and want to rebel. Nothing I say will change that. Psycho of Tunbridge Wells with his junior torture kit will not change it. Concerned parents will not change it. We have always sought out mind altering substances and we always will! The pontificating <deleted> who sit there with a fag in one hand and a G&T in the other suggesting death and dismemberment should remember this: Making a drug illegal is just an accident of history. Queen Victoria was a regular user of cannabis for her period pains (it is recognised as a good remedy for glaucoma too). In the States in 1900 coffee was considered the curse of youth. And let us not forget prohibition.

So while some of you condemn these boys remember that in another era your whisky might have got you the same. There but for the grace of God etc..

Finally do read the article on addiction. The myth of the addictive personality is just that; a myth. A convenient excuse to say " Its not my fault". Well heres the news. If you get addicted to drugs it is your fault. Unless you are Popeye Doyle (see the French Connection)! You took the drugs so take responsibility for that and for changing. Some of you who adhere to the 12 step logic will not agree. So be it. A disease is MS not drug addiction, no-one actively seeks MS. When you take responsibility for yourself you can acheive amazing things. I do not introduce my self as a bed wetter who hasn't wet the bed in 40 odd years so why would I introduce myself as a drug addict who hasn't used in 17 years? Once you stop taking drugs you become an ex user just like smoking.

Just to clarify I have been in the business for 15 years and before that had 15 years on the other side of the fence so I feel I have a fairly rounded knowledge of the UK drug scene.

Another long rant over. Bring on the long knives (blunt preferably).

Switzerland and Ecstasy

Switzerland's Supreme Court has ruled that dealing in Ecstasy is not a serious offence. Ecstasy remains illegal but will be regarded as a soft drug rather than a hard one as it cannot be said to pose a serious risk to physical and mental health and does not generally lead to criminal behaviour. Those who use it are generally 'socially integrated people'.

The ruling came as a result of the Federal Tribunal overturning a ruling by a Berne court which had sentenced a man to more than a year in prison for selling 1,000 Ecstasy pills.

The open-minded attitude of the Swiss towards Ecstasy has been evident for some time in their policy towards MDMA research.

Between 1988 and 1993 therapists in private practice were permitted to use Ecstasy within psychotherapy, and MDMA research is currently underway at the Psychiatric University Hospital in Zurich. Researchers there have permission to do studies in which MDMA is given to both regular users and MDMA-naive volunteers. More information is on the MAPS website on the MDMA Research in Switzerland page.

[LaoPo]

Switzerland and Ecstasy

Switzerland's Supreme Court has ruled that dealing in Ecstasy is not a serious offence. Ecstasy remains illegal but will be regarded as a soft drug rather than a hard one as it cannot be said to pose a serious risk to physical and mental health and does not generally lead to criminal behaviour. Those who use it are generally 'socially integrated people'.

The ruling came as a result of the Federal Tribunal overturning a ruling by a Berne court which had sentenced a man to more than a year in prison for selling 1,000 Ecstasy pills.

The open-minded attitude of the Swiss towards Ecstasy has been evident for some time in their policy towards MDMA research.

Between 1988 and 1993 therapists in private practice were permitted to use Ecstasy within psychotherapy, and MDMA research is currently underway at the Psychiatric University Hospital in Zurich. Researchers there have permission to do studies in which MDMA is given to both regular users and MDMA-naive volunteers. More information is on the MAPS website on the MDMA Research in Switzerland page.

Your quotes are very dated and the MDMA research report hasn't been updated since 4 1/2 years -March 2003-

Also you do not mention the date of the Swiss Supreme's Courts decision, overruling the Bern's Court, and I doubt the Swiss think (or would rule) the same nowadays since they have BIG drugs problems in their cities and towns...

LaoPo

[meemiathai]

If the drug was not available....she wouldnt have died...

cant put it more simpler than that.

Sorry but there are other things she could have taken which are legal. Like thinner, cough syrup, sniffing lighters....etc. I had a friend of a friend who took a few hundred pills of something(I don't know what that was) which was legal about 20 yrs ago and died. At that time it was what they did when they wanted to get high.

She could have taken rat's poison with her behaviour.

gburns, anger won't get you anywhere. Why not calm down and discuss. See what exactly is happening in this world.

May I ask if you think the death of this girl is sad, what if she had been caught with some pills in Singapore and was legally executed? Where is your logic? I have said already, you can die skiing, scuba-diving, driving...etc. So what is the point picking one news out about a death of Es?

Honestly, what is it that bothers you so much about Es? It is just something that makes you high and have a good time when partying. What is the difference of it from alcohol and ciggies? My personal experience is it feels much better than alcohol which gives you a full stomach, unaware of what yourself is doing, and a headache next morning. By the way, I remember reading a few each year people dying after consumption of strong spirits.

Edited December 10, 2007 by meemiathai

[meemiathai]

Lets not forget that people (mainly young people) have died from using this drug...

And the many, many more people who have died of Thai whisky.

You can ABUSE any drug and more people die of alchohol than any other drug.

Ok....explain abuse....one young girl here died after taking one tablet, one time....she was not a hardcore user...She just didnt know the effect it would have on her....of course the dealer told her about the dangers...didnt he ???

FACT : More people die from eating peanuts than eating E's..

(Seems quite a few people are allergic to peanuts.. Very very very few are to eating MDMA)

The government is too lazy, to legalise it !..

I think laziness is just part of the problem. I think the main reason is there are too many unrealistic people in the society lying to themselves about what morals they need in the society disregarding what human beings really are. Therefore no sane politician is going to bring this up. He would disappear like water vapour. Look what Bill Clinton went through, he nearly lost his job just because he received a bloody blow job! That is amazing!