A Despairing Friend

[Scott]

A former colleague who now works elsewhere seems to be having some serious problems. My bf and I were friends with him. Since leave my workplace, I seldom hear from him, but he and the bf remain in contact. Lately, according to the bf, he has been quite depressed and mentioned "not wanting to go on any longer." I think his basic issue is that he is a complete closet case. He was asked by several people at work if he was gay and he was adamant he wasn't. At his new place of employment the same thing has happened (this time it was a girlfriend who told people she thought he was gay).

I think he left his very comfortable and good job in the U.S. because of this same issue and is now having to face it again. He is very bright, well-educated, good looking, good physical shape and has everything going for him. I know he comes from a family that would be hard pressed to accept something like this.

He hangs around with my bf (who is out of the closet--but quite straight acting).

I've seen this kind of thing happen before and it scares me. Thoughts and ideas as to how to assist him? Confrontation would probably be a no-no, since he'd probably have to go and work in Myanmar next!

I am quite concerned.

[Ijustwannateach]

Since he's not ready to come out, possibly even to himself much less his closest friends, I don't think there's much you can do- as hard as it is to realise that. He has to be ready- and if that means he needs to hit rock-bottom first, then he's got to hit rock-bottom.

If he feels ready enough to seek counselling for his problem, that's an alternative- but it needs to be in that type of environment in which he feels like he has absolute security and confidentiality. You might suggest it, but I wouldn't be hopeful.

Good luck both to you and your friend.

"S"

[PeaceBlondie]

Sorry not to be very helpful with this, but I can't help thinking: if he can't be gay in Thailand, can he be openly gay anywhere? Maybe in his superego (the part of the mind that makes executive decisions) he doesn't really want to be gay, or to be out of the closet. However, he may need serious counselling.

[Scott]

Thanks, I think your pretty much right on and I feel better knowing I am not missing something important or obvious. I am worried because the holidays can be an emotionally tumultuous time for some. I also will talk to the bf about continuing to be supportive in the same way he has.

He may be at an important juncture--and possibly a positive one. If he was running away from his sexuality, this is pretty much the ideal place to confront the issue and I guess if you can't confront it (or get comfortable with it) here, it just won't happen.

Fortunately the bf has a good network of friends, both straight and gay and difficult to know which is which and they don't seem to care. I'll suggest inviting him along more often when they get together. They are a good group and he seems to be reasonably comfortable around them.

Again, many thanks--it helps to see a problem through other's eyes.

[cm-happy]

May I suggest sending your friend a copy of "Breaking The Surface" by Greg Louganis. Reading it may help him. Louganis went through same issues, sounds like your friend is going through and how he came to grips with things. I also recommend it for ANY gay person.

[peekint]

Hi Scott,

There have been some great observations here based on the limited information you gave us.

I am curious about a left-out detail which I think is important.

You haven't mentioned how you know your friend is Gay. Has he told you? Is it your "gaydar"? Is he a raving queen?

It sort of goes to whether he's out to HIMSELF or not.

[Scott]

Thanks for the tip on the book, sounds good.

As for how do I know this is his problem--I don't. That's part of the problem. All I know is that this is a person, who spends an inordinate amount of time talking about how he isn't gay.

The basic problem is that he is experiencing some type of life crisis and I don't want to see anything bad happen to him. I am posting hear because I have a feeling that he is and that's why he talks about it so much. He also seems to like to be on the fringes of the gay community etc. etc.

Basically, I am trying to make sure he is OK. I know that it doesn't make much difference whether the whole world things he's gay or not....It's important that he know what he is.

[jerry921]

Reading into the line about him having a family that would be hard-pressed to accept it, I'm guessing that his family might be strongly religious. If that's so, then he's caught between an irresistible force and an immovable object, and any intervetion that doesn't take his religious background into account will be coming from the wrong angle. If someone believes that what they are is unacceptable according to their own morality, they're going to go through denial, anger, and, if they can't change, depression. Reconciling one's gay sexuality with one's (conservative) religion is really really difficult, unless you simply toss out one or the other. But if both are genuine, both will keep coming back until that emotional, cognitive and spiritual work is done.

[Scott]

Jerry, I hear you loud and clear. His issue is a little bit more complex in that part of it is one of his parents ethnic background--coming from a country where homosexuality is outlawed as well as some religious overtones (I think one parent is Catholic, but not strongly so). Together they make a potent force, however. No matter how you spit it or what you call it, it amounts to the same dilemma.

I think that most people go on this voyage of self-discovery first and the issue of family acceptance or 'coming out' happens later. Maybe some people have some other experience in this area.

[peekint]

Thanks for the tip on the book, sounds good.

As for how do I know this is his problem--I don't. That's part of the problem. All I know is that this is a person, who spends an inordinate amount of time talking about how he isn't gay.

The basic problem is that he is experiencing some type of life crisis and I don't want to see anything bad happen to him. I am posting hear because I have a feeling that he is and that's why he talks about it so much. He also seems to like to be on the fringes of the gay community etc. etc.

Basically, I am trying to make sure he is OK. I know that it doesn't make much difference whether the whole world things he's gay or not....It's important that he know what he is.

I have a very dear woman friend living in San Francisco. She's been dating a fellow for months now. They get along well, and according to her reports, the sex is great. There is only one problem. Everyone thinks he's Gay. He is also inordinately insistent that he's not Gay, to the point that it is, as the Thais say, "over". It's actually begun to affect their relationship so much that my friend has decided to end it. It's not the 'everyone thinks he's Gay" part, its his obsession with it.

My friend lives on Twin Peaks in San Fran and is quite fit, so she often walks down to the Castro for breakfast at a fantastic little bakery there. One morning, after a long night of sex, she took him down there for breakfast. The poor fellow tried to be gracious, but she said it was like one of those weird comedy movies. Every other sentence was "I'm not Gay", he actually shrank from the gay publications, removing them all from the table, and making sure he wasn't facing anyone with whom he could make eye contact.

There is a great movie called "Coffee Date" which tells the story of a straight guy (really straight) who has the same problem. Although the Gay characters are rather stereotype, it's a great story and really gets the perspective. It's easy to find on <URL removed>

In the end, there is some possibility your friend is NOT Gay, so I wouldn't jump to trying to provide opportunities fro him to "hook up" or "come out" - you'll just make things worse. There is a thing called "homosexual panic", which Freud would say is repressed homosexuality but more modern psychologists group with obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD). My friend's BF that I wrote about above fits this quite well, as he has other symptoms of OCD (for instance, he takes a black plastic garbage bag with him to movie theaters to put on the seat before he sits down). You might want to think about whether your friend has any other symptoms of OCD. In which case, he's got more problems than just whether or not he's Gay, and you may have to just feel sorry for his unhappiness and let it go at that. If it's any consolation, folks with OCD rarely if ever commit suicide, but usually spend their whole life depressed and unhappy. There are some very good meds out there that can help. Psychotherapy is useless except in the most mild forms of OCD.

Edited December 28, 2007 by endure
URL to file-sharing site removed as per forum rules

[Rionoir]

Unless he specifically asks for help with coming out, I don't think it's anyone's business to force it upon him or even talk about it... to his face or behind his back. I would continually offer friendship, make sure he knows there are plenty of people around that love him no matter what, and let him take his time to see that it is ok and will be ok if he ever decides to come out (assuming he is even gay)...

[Onnutrd]

Hi Scott,

Maybe if you have time you could meet up with your friend so he can loosen up. Because you're not 100% sure his problem is about his sexuality, although it seems to be, it could very much be something else on his mind.

What I would have cherished alot when I was in high school, is a friend who told me about their difficulties dealing with some problems so I did'nt have to feel like I was the only one around who had a heavy load to carry. In that way, it would have made me feel alot better. That was when I was struggling to comes to terms with being gay at 16.

I only came out because I 'hit rock bottom' as Ijustwannateach had put it, but it felt bloody dam_n good when I found out I had the support of my parents and friends.

So you might try being up-front with him in a general way. Ask him, "what's wrong? I know you and something is up" and let him know that you're there to support him and help him, whatever it might be.

I hope your friend feels fine soon:)

[Onnutrd]

Hey Peekint,

Your one made me laugh!

"for instance, he takes a black plastic garbage bag with him to movie theaters to put on the seat before he sits down"

I love it!!!!!

[Onnutrd]

Jerry, I hear you loud and clear. His issue is a little bit more complex in that part of it is one of his parents ethnic background--coming from a country where homosexuality is outlawed as well as some religious overtones (I think one parent is Catholic, but not strongly so). Together they make a potent force, however. No matter how you spit it or what you call it, it amounts to the same dilemma.

I think that most people go on this voyage of self-discovery first and the issue of family acceptance or 'coming out' happens later. Maybe some people have some other experience in this area.

I must have scrolled too far down and not seen the above letter.

In regards to God and gay's, he's certainly not alone on this matter. I can recall a number of friends who have had difficulties dealing with their faith and their sexuality. In particular, I have no better example than that of my own.

Although it was not my family who were 'hard core Christians' or Catholics for that matter, it was I.

At the time of my difficulty coming to grips with the fact that I might be gay, the only reason why I struggled is because I thought I would'nt be accepted by God. Up until then, I thought that I was quite a good Christian. I read the bible everyday, prayed, went to church; I genuinely had love for God and wanted to follow his ways.

But I found that 'being who I am (that is, gay)' was such a strong pull on my mind that I decided to 'vacate' the Christian faith altogether. I think this mentality was a mixture of my family, some Church members and my Pastor at the time.

After 2 weeks of depression, I realised that perhaps God could love someone the likes of me, despite my flaws. I thought to myself 'wait a minute, no one is perfect' and began to get myself out of my depressed state.

Now I'm 20, and I love God more than ever. In spite of that, my faith too has grown. I've begun to believe that faith is not based primarily on what the Bible says, but on what an individuals believe positively about God and genuinely within his/her own heart. My faith? I believe that no matter who you are, what you've done, or the life you might lead; God loves everyone.

Your friend might want to take his faith into his own hands at some point.

[Scott]

Onnutrd, thanks for the reply. I don't think this person has too much of a struggle with God; I think it's the religious injuctions passed on through his family.

Your post, however, is very insightful. I once in a while run into people who have the struggle you described and short of abandoning religion and faith, I never thought about how people might reconcile the whole thing.

I have another friend who is gay and Muslim and he really has some issues to deal with. He, however, is comfortable with himself and his sexuality, but lives in dire fear of family, friends and community finding out.

Thanks.

[PeaceBlondie]

In my arrogant opinion as a gay Christian, I have to shout that the Bible is not strongly opposed to homosexuality. In fact, here's a non-commercial website that says so: http://deananderson.wordpress.com/2007/10/...-homosexuality/

The dogma of the church, against gay sex, is dogshit.

[toptuan]

In my arrogant opinion as a gay Christian, I have to shout that the Bible is not strongly opposed to homosexuality. In fact, here's a non-commercial website that says so: http://deananderson.wordpress.com/2007/10/...-homosexuality/

The dogma of the church, against gay sex, is dogshit.

It really bothers me that the author of this article you pointed us to (ergo: his credentials) are not readily and easily identified. What are his credentials to so authoritatively translate the Hebrew and Greek texts? I left all my lexicons at home, so I have to inquire as to the author's background. Is it there? Am I missing something?

P.S. His strongest arguments appear to be arguments from silence. And IMO I don't see those as strong arguments. However, it's all predicated on his authoritative translation of the words in question. Hence, my desire to learn about the author.

Edited January 11, 2008 by toptuan

[PeaceBlondie]

In my arrogant opinion as a gay Christian, I have to shout that the Bible is not strongly opposed to homosexuality. In fact, here's a non-commercial website that says so: http://deananderson.wordpress.com/2007/10/...-homosexuality/

The dogma of the church, against gay sex, is dogshit.

It really bothers me that the author of this article you pointed us to (ergo: his credentials) are not readily and easily identified. What are his credentials to so authoritatively translate the Hebrew and Greek texts? I left all my lexicons at home, so I have to inquire as to the author's background. Is it there? Am I missing something?

P.S. His strongest arguments appear to be arguments from silence. And IMO I don't see those as strong arguments. However, it's all predicated on his authoritative translation of the words in question. Hence, my desire to learn about the author.

Toptuan, I don't know his credentials, or how to find them (with such a common name as Dean Anderson). His point is that almost all the Christian enemies of gay sex have been arguing from silence for over 1,500 years. We could excuse Catholics for ignoring the text of the Bible, but not evangelicals who state that the Bible is the ONLY authority in moral matters.

But I didn't mean to start a conversation about how little the Bible condemns gay sex. I just felt I had to shout it when we were speaking about the (FALSE) guilt so many Christians throw at gay sex.