Illegal land occupation

[KevinHunt]

I'm often asked why I moved to Chiang Mai, which can be a long story, depending on the listener, but I wonder why it is so many people stay here. The majority of ex-pats in Chiang Mai have seen and maybe lived in plenty of other places so what is it about Chiang Mai that compelled them to stay?

I'm wondering what people would say if they were asked ...

What are the 3 best things about living in Chiang Mai?

[Nienke]

1. Got my business with the dogs and cats that I love and am quite passionate about

2. Got a roof above my head, car (love to drive) and a large piece of land in the country side with a big fishpond, lots of fruit trees, veggies and herbs, and the most wonderfull smelling flowers that attracts loads of birds.

3. The sun that helped me through the most difficult times in my life.

4. Although it sounds very strange in my own ears as my life is highly stressfull, it still feels much less stressful than a life in Holland. It is the above 3 points, plus the easy way of life here (that the Thai culture has taught me) that makes I can (and have been able to) handle all this. Ok, and I'm damned stubborn as well.

I've build a life that completely suits my needs and passions. I love it (most of the time. If one doesn't bang one's head once in a while it gets boring as well and one may fall asleep).

My 2 setang

Nienke

[Sao Jiang Mai]

Easy.

Lovely people.

Super convenient with something for everyone, every taste and every wallet.

Terrific quality of life.

[p1p]

Only answer for me:

It's home - pure and simple.

[ProThaiExpat]

Tough question for those of us who have made it our home. Clearly, if we have bought a home here and pay no rent. that is a major factor. Dwelling on what we don't like about Chiang Mai is not a positive way to go.

Why we came in the first place might be interesting but really not relevant once we settle here as many reasons for why one moves here disappear in time.

I moved here from after only two weeks in a rented condo in BKK and sacrificing a 50k deposit because my love interest at that time had worked here and it would be the easiest place to re-enter the workforce for him. He has never returned to work. Air pollution gave me a persistent cough, now I know Chiang Mai is not much better on that score. I really like Pattaya but wouldn't want to live there.

The best I can do to answer the question is to say I like the "small town" feel of Chiang Mai that I don't get in BKK, even though I live 10 km. out of Chiang Mai center.

[Blinky Bill]

In my opinion Chiang Mai is not the place it used to be.

In the 80's the air was clean, the traffic was never a problem, most of the people you met were working and had a good reason to be in Chiang Mai. You certainly didn't have all the retail outlets that are available today, but strangely enough we survived without these commodities and didn't whinge our hearts out if we couldn't get a decent hamburger or find a whiteboard. We had a choice of 3 or 4 bars and enjoyed them all. Western restaurants were few but there were, and strangely enough still are, plenty of Thai restaurants which have pretty good food.

IMO Life in Chiang Mai really made a turn for the worse in the 90's. Bars began appearing everywhere, traffic increased. Budget tourists/backpackers came in hoards, many decided to stay, went out and bought a collared shirt and neck-tie and called themselves English teachers.

It seems every other foreigner you talk to these days is a resident. It is cheaper to live in Thailand than where they came so many financial refugees are in Chiang Mai because they couldn't afford to retire in their own countries.

Many of the new residents are in Chiang Mai to satisfy their various vices, some of which are felonies in their own countries and carry very stiff penalties.

Although the semi natural phenomena of haze in February - April has been a feature of Chiang Mai the air quality these days is bad to the point of being quite unhealthy. The traffic is becoming a painful experience.

[SwaziBird]

I'm often asked why I moved to Chiang Mai, which can be a long story, depending on the listener, but I wonder why it is so many people stay here. The majority of ex-pats in Chiang Mai have seen and maybe lived in plenty of other places so what is it about Chiang Mai that compelled them to stay?

I'm wondering what people would say if they were asked ...

What are the 3 best things about living in Chiang Mai?

There are, I'm sure, much nicer cities or places in which to live - but, we simply can't afford them.

This ,then, gives rise to Reason No.1 (principal) - affordability (rents, transport, entertainment, food, clothing, medical and dental care etc.)

Reason No.2 Laid back, compact & convenient.

Reason No. 3 "crawls" with expats and has a fantastic Expat Club with any amount of social networking.

Although only asked to give 3 reasons , must add the fact that the Thais in CM are lovely and this is the place to practice being "nice" and polite and expect this to be a reciprocated norm.( If I were to display some of these "niceties" back in Australia or any other western country, they would arouse many supicions as to my motives and/or state of sanity !)

Also, we LOVE it here .

Thanks for asking.

Cheers

[richard10365]

I imagine every big town was a small town once. Change is bound to happen. Some changes good and some bad. Chiang Mai has both good and bad changes. For people who think it has grown a bit, they can easily take a tour of smaller cities such as Lamphun to get that nostalgic feeling again.

For me, I think it's perfect. Everything I had back in the USA I have here but at a fraction of the cost. Internet TV, ADSL, shopping, movies, education, night life and culture. The only thing I don't have is a large group of American's patting themselves on the back thinking they are the worlds best nation running around to different parts of the planet and saying, "aren't you glad you have me as your friend?".

In a nutshell, I have found peace.

[anonymouse]

While Blinky Bill gave a dozen reasons for not living here and I'm probably one of the financial refugees he's talking about!

My three reasons among many would be

1. The character of Chiang Mai, a much more appealing place to live than most in Thailand.

2. Affordibility

3. Being able to watch a movie, visit a used bookstore, eat western food - then travel 10km outside town and be in a totally different environment.

[PeaceBlondie]

Only three reasons? I'll try to limit it to three or four.

I came here and stay here because

a. Cheap cost of living.

b. I can be myself.

c. Climate.

d. It's not Houston, Bangkok, or some tiny town in flat Nebraska.

[WaiWai]

Burgers !

[Rasseru]

I would add to the foregoing, that it has very many Buddhists and only a few Christians.

[realthaideal]

"In my opinion Chiang Mai is not the place it used to be.

In the 80's the air was clean, the traffic was never a problem, most of the people you met were working and had a good reason to be in Chiang Mai. You certainly didn't have all the retail outlets that are available today, but strangely enough we survived without these commodities and didn't whinge our hearts out if we couldn't get a decent hamburger or find a whiteboard. We had a choice of 3 or 4 bars and enjoyed them all. Western restaurants were few but there were, and strangely enough still are, plenty of Thai restaurants which have pretty good food.

IMO Life in Chiang Mai really made a turn for the worse in the 90's. Bars began appearing everywhere, traffic increased. Budget tourists/backpackers came in hoards, many decided to stay, went out and bought a collared shirt and neck-tie and called themselves English teachers.

It seems every other foreigner you talk to these days is a resident...."

' Damm. I'd leave the country.

<deleted>**g J**k........................'

-A reply from BB post to another person complaining about CM (Service Charge + Tax thread),

think it suits his own off-topic post quite well.

So anyway, for me, not having been here to observe 20 glorious years of it's 700 years' history and call myself an old timer like other big shots, here're my reasons:

1. A thriving local culture of artistry and pride reflected in language, food, paintings, music, etc.

2. Affordability

3. Friendly people

I could go on....food (again), a small town with everything, you can be what you wanna be here, it's short trip out to the mountains, the local vibrant marketplaces -talaats.......

[Mapguy]

I hope this topic is rephrased to allow a broader discussion of plusses and minuses of Chiang Mai. The town has a lot to offer, but --- like any town --- has some serious problems, as well. Some are very serious

In mid 2004 there was a very, very thoughtful discussion on this site about Chiang Mai's ambiance. That was entitled: << Thailand's historic Chiang Mai faces potential tourism crisis >> It is definitely worth a look. This is not to change the tenor of the discussion except to suggest that a broad topic like this could be better titled. Perhaps the administrator/moderators could meld these strings.

[KevinHunt]

I hope this topic is rephrased to allow a broader discussion of plusses and minuses of Chiang Mai. The town has a lot to offer, but --- like any town --- has some serious problems, as well. Some are very serious

In mid 2004 there was a very, very thoughtful discussion on this site about Chiang Mai's ambiance. That was entitled: << Thailand's historic Chiang Mai faces potential tourism crisis >> It is definitely worth a look. This is not to change the tenor of the discussion except to suggest that a broad topic like this could be better titled. Perhaps the administrator/moderators could meld these strings.

Interesting idea but......

I thought it would be interesting to see the positive points about living in Chiang Mai. Assuming that this forum is read by plenty of people that don't live here, I thought that maybe they might be interested to find out what it is that attracts people to staying here. Sure, like everywhere in the world there are drawbacks, but I thought it might be worth pointing out why people choose to stay here. If we choose to stay or regularly visit Chiang Mai, then the good must outweigh the bad. So what's so good about Chiang Mai?

Just for now, forget the negative stuff. Accentuate the positive!!! It's not burying your head in the sand, it's just maybe remebering why we're still here.

Edited December 17, 2007 by KevinHUNT

[cm-happy]

1.. It's my home

2.. Boyfriend

3 Bboyfriend

[easternspark]

1. Affordability (Housing in particular)

2. Easy access to so much beautiful countryside.

3. Having a small and conveniently located airport with several international flights.

[Nienke]

Ok, got already some points but like to add:

The close-by mountains, the forests, the rice fields, the beauty of the different seasons like just after the first rains during the hot season when the greeny stuff is just booming out of the ground, the close-by hotsprings, the big international group of people with their huge amount of experiences and expertise, even the grumpy ones who make you smile at times, the amazing chai yin yin of some Thai people.

And of course, it's as good as you make it yourself.

Nienke

[bungalowbill]

1. Low stress

2. Great Hub to travel from

3. My financial refugee status(see Blinky Bill)

This topic reminds me of the SteelyDan lyrics: "Any world that I'm welcome to is better than the one I come from"

[Donnyboy]

1.. It's my home

2.. Boyfriend

3 Bboyfriend

would #3 be "B" boyfriend, being giek

[swain]

a. Cheap cost of living, and though some are in denial about this, the cost of housing is going down. We go to village after village and people are selling their houses for less and less. We have bought two houses now with no money down and payments that are so low that they could be the cost of rent.

b. Good mixture of western life, thai culture, and nature just outside of town.

c. Climate cool nights easy days.... lived in Bangkok for two years... too hot, moist, and loud.

If Chiang Mai can get their field burning problem under control it would be on the top of my list of places to live. But now I have to leave 2-3 months out of the year because of this problem. I would NOT recommend people relocating here until its under control.. We have a house down near the beach... so we can escape... if you are on a limited budget and cant afford the escape, I would wait and see if we can get this under control.

[JoshMyPickle]

A Thai chum recently informed me that Chiang Mai is the #4 most popular tourist (or /terrorist/, depending on the extent of the accent) destination in all of Asia...

Once the pollution problem is resolved, let's hope the ridding the country from the black plague of sketchpats and sexpats is next on the Thai government to-do-list; the visa restrictions were a good start, but background checks should be requisite for any intermediate/long-stayers and non-degree-holding English teachers should be banned altogether. Of course, providing antipsychotic meds for the population of virile Thai/Isaan women could also be an excellent public health initiative to explore.

[rob69]

I'm often asked why I moved to Chiang Mai, which can be a long story, depending on the listener, but I wonder why it is so many people stay here. The majority of ex-pats in Chiang Mai have seen and maybe lived in plenty of other places so what is it about Chiang Mai that compelled them to stay?

I'm wondering what people would say if they were asked ...

What are the 3 best things about living in Chiang Mai?

Women, Whiskey and Chiang Mai people (must be the friendliest in Thailand).

[peekint]

Pluses

1. My husband is from here and I love his parents

2. We can live well with no debt

3. Big enough to have what we need, small enough to be missing what we don't like about big cities

Minuses

1. The Air

2. Not a "walker's" town, even though it should be

3. Uncontrolled growth with no real zoning or planning

Things that got better since I've been here:

1. Availability of certain Western items (wine, baking ingredients, some other things)

2. Street sanitation

Things that have gotten worse

1. The Air

2. Traffic

My major bone to pick is that same with all of Thailand. Thais are unnaturally afraid of zoning controls. You can buy a 10MM baht house in a nice neighborhood, and the house next door can decide one day to turn into a gwai dieow shop, a car repair place, a motorcycle welding emporium, or a junk dealer. Your neighbor is very likely to build a 10K baht lean-to made of rusty metal and corrugated tin on the front of HIS 10MM baht house, and let the water from it drain directly into your garden.

Hotels are built with no place to park cars, vans, or buses. Restaurants and bars are allowed to have an unlimited number of tables, with no requirement for even one parking place. The same is true for apartment buildings, condos and townhouses.

Chiang Mai is following the path of BKK, where they built the 1000 room Queens park hotel on a one-lane one-way soi. I stayed there soon after it opened, and it took a half hour by taxi to travel the 300 meters from the main road down the soi to the driveway of the hotel. Notice something similar happening at the Night Market? How about the Nimmanhemin area?

[Mapguy]

Pluses

1. My husband is from here and I love his parents

2. We can live well with no debt

3. Big enough to have what we need, small enough to be missing what we don't like about big cities

Minuses

1. The Air

2. Not a "walker's" town, even though it should be

3. Uncontrolled growth with no real zoning or planning

Things that got better since I've been here:

1. Availability of certain Western items (wine, baking ingredients, some other things)

2. Street sanitation

Things that have gotten worse

1. The Air

2. Traffic

My major bone to pick is that same with all of Thailand. Thais are unnaturally afraid of zoning controls. You can buy a 10MM baht house in a nice neighborhood, and the house next door can decide one day to turn into a gwai dieow shop, a car repair place, a motorcycle welding emporium, or a junk dealer. Your neighbor is very likely to build a 10K baht lean-to made of rusty metal and corrugated tin on the front of HIS 10MM baht house, and let the water from it drain directly into your garden.

Hotels are built with no place to park cars, vans, or buses. Restaurants and bars are allowed to have an unlimited number of tables, with no requirement for even one parking place. The same is true for apartment buildings, condos and townhouses.

Chiang Mai is following the path of BKK, where they built the 1000 room Queens park hotel on a one-lane one-way soi. I stayed there soon after it opened, and it took a half hour by taxi to travel the 300 meters from the main road down the soi to the driveway of the hotel. Notice something similar happening at the Night Market? How about the Nimmanhemin area?

Applause! APPLAUSE! You zeroed in on some key points.

[JimsKnight]

I'm often asked why I moved to Chiang Mai, which can be a long story, depending on the listener, but I wonder why it is so many people stay here. The majority of ex-pats in Chiang Mai have seen and maybe lived in plenty of other places so what is it about Chiang Mai that compelled them to stay?

I'm wondering what people would say if they were asked ...

What are the 3 best things about living in Chiang Mai?

Women, Whiskey and Chiang Mai people (must be the friendliest in Thailand).

Ditto

[jtown9guy]

a. Cheap cost of living, and though some are in denial about this, the cost of housing is going down. We go to village after village and people are selling their houses for less and less. We have bought two houses now with no money down and payments that are so low that they could be the cost of rent.

b. Good mixture of western life, thai culture, and nature just outside of town.

c. Climate cool nights easy days.... lived in Bangkok for two years... too hot, moist, and loud.

If Chiang Mai can get their field burning problem under control it would be on the top of my list of places to live. But now I have to leave 2-3 months out of the year because of this problem. I would NOT recommend people relocating here until its under control.. We have a house down near the beach... so we can escape... if you are on a limited budget and cant afford the escape, I would wait and see if we can get this under control.

I am enjoying all the reasons people are giving to live in Chiang Mai but I must ask a rather amature question. When are the 2-3 months out of the year when the burning takes place, and what effect does that have? And what beach do you escape to during this time?

[Ulysses G.]

Normally, I have no problem at all during the burning season, however, last year, it was hazy for a few days due to some very unusual weather conditions. In my opinion, during normal years, people without some sort of respiratory problem - or who aren't just looking for things to complain about - should hardly even notice the fields burning.

[PeaceBlondie]

Mind you, Ulysses and I have almost no problems at all with the burning (and last winter was perhaps the worst ever), but it was noticeable. Heck, the face masks were noticeable! So, if you don't have breathing problems, it doesn't matter. Were the worst months January and February, or March?

[Ulysses G.]

I think that it normally starts as cool season fades into hot season which would be March. Last year might have been earlier.