Thailand Needs Residency Reform

[jonniebkk]

So here's the deal, my friend is a rich Chinese American with million dollar condos in San Francisco and Shanghai...old family money. He is in his early 40s and retired. He travels business and first class around the world all the time...spending most of his time between SFO, Shanghai, and Bangkok. He also owns a small (but nice) pied-a-terre on Sukhumvit. He spends about 6-8 months a year in Bangkok. Up till now, he has relied on 30-day entry stamps as he constangly comes and goes. I have been telling him for about a year about the new 90-days in and out rules and the last time he arrived (about a month ago) he was told he was getting near the 90-days rule. To make a long story short, for his most recent arrival (a couple days ago), he would need a visa.

Back in SFO a couple weeks ago, he drives from SFO to LAX to get a visa from the consulate. I told him to take a copy/original of his ownership documents for his condo and advised that he should be able to get a multi non-imm B or O visa. So what do they give him...a double entry TOURIST visa. The other offer was of a single entry non-imm O visa. He took the double T as at least he would have more time before having to get another visa. So a "top-quality" tourist, who owns property in Bangkok, is only given a visa that allows a stay of 2 months for two entries.

[sweetchariot]

If he has money, then why not join Thailand Elite? 1m baht and he gets a 5yr visa.

[samran]

let me get this straight.

Rich man expects middle income country to be grateful to him for being rich, and thus should roll out the red carpet for him visa wise.

You are right, Thailand does need visa reforms.

Married male foreign spouses need access to long term visas and automatic work rights for one.

Foreign parents under 50 looking after their Thai national childern need to be able to stay without going through the hoops.

Eventually getting citizenship needs to be made more transparent and predictable.

Rich old money types who expect things to be handed to them on a plate, I'm not so sure.

[billd766]

I am a little confused about the point of the thread.

If you take out the part of how much money he has which is not so important for a visa what is left.

He is not married or has a Thai child, he is not old enough to get a retitrement visa, he owns an apartment in Thailand as other people do so what visa can he reasonably expect to be given? Does he have a business in Thailand in which case he should be able to get a Non Imm B visa. If not then he appears to be a tourist and as is the norm nowadays there is the 90 day rule so he could still spend 6 months of the year in Thailand just split into 2 3 monthly trips.

Does the amount of money that he has qualify him for special treatment? If so what is the minimum amount required?

[jonniebkk]

Sweet Chariot...that's his likely next move. He didn't know about Thai Elite program till I told him about it last time we talked. He was very interested...he is just the market they are targeting I would guess.

Samran...your envy of the rich is getting the better of you I don't thinks special treatment is necessary (but nothing wrong with it either as these are the type of people most countries would want to attract for business investment or just plain ole residency). I am just posting this as an example of one of the many instances (and you point out others) where visa/residency reforms are needed to benefit both Thailand and foreigners who wish to reside in Thailand.

[lapamita]

normaly the amount of money must qualify.

taxsin and the 7 bandits ,talked in every newspapper

" we want a lot of tourist with A LOT OF MONEY" or we want "SPEND A LOT OF MONEY"

the goverment wnat to get rid of the cheapcharlys,,, but instead they get rid of many others.

yes,,you own condo, you are even not entiteld ( even not against money) for VISA.

buy and f******* off.

for my part, i have condo, i was this year, more than 3 month outside thailand , compare to before, due to visa,,but for me more easy,,money welcomed every where......

as long you have money,,, can go everywhere..................

yes they need reforms quickly,,they must give people no married or under 50 a chance on legal way.

for my part i sold one condo of 6m and reduced money in thailand by 7m total 13m due to changes

now ihave only 2 condos a studio in pattaya and a middlesized one in a beachresort.and no new money comming

hope that PPP loose the pole, if not, it get more worse ,we see after 23

[lapamita]

THe THAI ELITE Card

WOULD BE an alternative for rich people,,who even buy bolbola-goods for millions.

for somebody worked hard for the money,, the card is to expensive,,for an unsure system

this card is like a headhunterpremium

up to 250.000 baht,, the card would fit me ,due to the 5 yr visa

but a visa for a million baht 30.000 USD hmmmmmmmmm

[naka]

So here's the deal, my friend is a rich Chinese American with million dollar condos in San Francisco and Shanghai...old family money. He is in his early 40s and retired. He travels business and first class around the world all the time...spending most of his time between SFO, Shanghai, and Bangkok. He also owns a small (but nice) pied-a-terre on Sukhumvit. He spends about 6-8 months a year in Bangkok. Up till now, he has relied on 30-day entry stamps as he constangly comes and goes. I have been telling him for about a year about the new 90-days in and out rules and the last time he arrived (about a month ago) he was told he was getting near the 90-days rule. To make a long story short, for his most recent arrival (a couple days ago), he would need a visa.

Back in SFO a couple weeks ago, he drives from SFO to LAX to get a visa from the consulate. I told him to take a copy/original of his ownership documents for his condo and advised that he should be able to get a multi non-imm B or O visa. So what do they give him...a double entry TOURIST visa. The other offer was of a single entry non-imm O visa. He took the double T as at least he would have more time before having to get another visa. So a "top-quality" tourist, who owns property in Bangkok, is only given a visa that allows a stay of 2 months for two entries.

How about a B visa teaching Mandarin ?

Naka.

[sweetchariot]

Does the amount of money that he has qualify him for special treatment? If so what is the minimum amount required?

Yes. 1m baht. Thai Elite.

[jazzbo]

Honorary General Consuls in all countries have broad discretion as to whom to grant visas. One of their considerations is what does one intend to do while in the Kingdom... does at least part of your stay involve an activity (not defined as work) that benefits the Thai society at large... such an indication can go a long way.

[innovator]

This is the high season, XMAS. It doesn't get any higher than this. However, when I walk around and speak to the local Thai business owners, shop keepers, hotels, guest houses, coffee shops, internet bars, malls, beer bars, laundries, restaurants, and other types of businesses, they all seem to be crying and complaining to me that they don't have any customers in the high, peak season. They are very worried about the upcoming low season and fear that their businesses will simply collapse. So, the party may be over for many farangs, Chinese, Japanese, Germans, Canadians, Brits, and others, but the show must go on for the local Thais. Let them sort things out and eventually, they will make the necessary changes to the system or they will suffer the long term consequences. Think about it....if you are a farang or foreigner from some other planet and must leave the Kingdom because you cannot get a Visa, then you can go to Vietnam or Cambodia to continue your long term holiday......but if you are a local Thai business owner, you have to wake up every morning in the high season and wonder about why the leaders changed the rules and tossed all of the tourists and long stay folks out.

[Jingthing]

Yeah, I don't see the logic of kicking out younger people who can show funds. Why not just extend the retirement extension way down in age? Its only for a year anyway, not exactly a big commitment.

[jonniebkk]

How about a B visa teaching Mandarin ?

Naka.

Naka - appriciate the suggestion and for someone who wanted or needed to work to support themselves ,this would be an option (as he does speak fluent Mandarin). However, that is not his wish...to work that is. Like some cashed-up folks, he just wants to spend his time and money having fun in Thailand...eating in fine restos, clubbing the nite away in 5-star hotel nightclubs, and staying in fine resorts when not in Bangkok. Whether you agree with his lifestyle or not, he is surely someone who's spending benefits the Thai economy. As mentioned before, he bought a condo, pays condo dues, employs a maid, and now even supports a little gik while she studies at university. For such a person to be only granted a SINGLE entry tourist visa seems to me a dis-service both to him and to the Thai economy.

Edited December 14, 2007 by jonniebkk

[jazzbo]

You gents are discussing the way you think things ought to be. I am just pointing out the way things are.

[Jingthing]

You gents are discussing the way you think things ought to be. I am just pointing out the way things are.

This is true.

Remember the golden rule: There is no obligation to be fair to foreigners.

[jonniebkk]

You gents are discussing the way you think things ought to be. I am just pointing out the way things are.

We understand but just venting some frustrations and some hopefully constructive suggestions or ideas. It's up to the Thais and their government to decide what is best for them and Thailand.

Also, I don't think the LAX consul is an honorary one. It is the largest Thai consulate in USA I believe and serves the largest Thai expat community in the States. Believe likely to be staffed by Thai Foreign Ministry bureaucrats. Maybe that accounts for the non-creative response to my friend's visa request.

[jazzbo]

Correct. LAX is not an Honorary Consul. Theirs was a non-creative response to a non-creative request.

[Jingthing]

Next time, try another consulate.

[jonniebkk]

Next time, try another consulate.

I don't want to sound elitist, but he is not the type who would stoop to consulate shopping for his visa Like I said, he has plenty of options. Just posted the info for informational and discussion purposes only. He may in fact go for the Elite program now that I have mentioned it to him.

It just seems foolish for a country to be so frugal in handing out visa entries for someone who only wants to come here and spend [large] amounts of money

[Jingthing]

I don't see what elitism has to do with selecting a consulate with a better reputation, but WHATEVER.

[jonniebkk]

I don't see what elitism has to do with selecting a consulate with a better reputation, but WHATEVER.

Maybe I should say doesn't have the time for playing the Embassy-Consulate merry-go-round visa game. Instead of coming to Thailand as often as he would otherwise, he would just spend $15 or $20k and go on a 2-week wine and food tour of the south of France

[jazzbo]

I was in a similar position a few years back when I had sufficient finances but could not qualify for an Extension of Visa based on Retirement. I lived in the Kingdom for nearly 3 years as I have described. However, I did not put on my reason for my 'Purpose of Visit': I just want to spend my time and money having fun in Thailand... and support a gik.

[Jingthing]

So what did you put EXACTLY? Because "visiting friends" I don't think would work very often these days at US consulates anyway.

Edited December 14, 2007 by Jingthing

[jazzbo]

A former Thai University Department Chairman wrote a letter that said, based on my experience and credentials, that I assisted him when he had requests relating to specialized Education issues -- which was true... and then I went on to have fun etc... However, there could be many other legitimate creative requests.

[soundman]

let me get this straight.

Rich man expects middle income country to be grateful to him for being rich, and thus should roll out the red carpet for him visa wise.

You are right, Thailand does need visa reforms.

Married male foreign spouses need access to long term visas and automatic work rights for one.

Foreign parents under 50 looking after their Thai national childern need to be able to stay without going through the hoops.

Eventually getting citizenship needs to be made more transparent and predictable.

Rich old money types who expect things to be handed to them on a plate, I'm not so sure.

Wish this was the case.

[astral]

By way of comparison, Money does speak in Malaysia's Second Home plan.

http://mm2h.motour.gov.my/cms/index.php?n=places

[jonniebkk]

I did not put on my reason for my 'Purpose of Visit': I just want to spend my time and money having fun in Thailand... and support a gik.

I don't think he did either But he did take down his condo ownership papers. Just seems silly that at 50 it's okay but at 40 no. This guy probably spends the equalivent of 5-10 typical over 50 retirees per day...just seems Thailand is shooting itself in the foot when it comes to guys like him. It's leaving money on the table and that's unusual for Thais

Like others have mentioned, the Thai Elite program might fit his needs and money would not be an issue for him.

When you start comparing the Malaysia MSH program and the Thai Elite program it does get somewhat interesting. However, though Malaysia has it good points, for most people, Thailand still has sufficient charms of one sort or another to make it worth some effort to arrange it so one can stay here if one so desires.

Edited December 14, 2007 by jonniebkk

[jazzbo]

I received the Visa. He didn't.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Next time, try another consulate.

Such as the Thai Consulate in Houston by mail.

[zorro1]

I don't see what elitism has to do with selecting a consulate with a better reputation, but WHATEVER.

Maybe I should say doesn't have the time for playing the Embassy-Consulate merry-go-round visa game. Instead of coming to Thailand as often as he would otherwise, he would just spend $15 or $20k and go on a 2-week wine and food tour of the south of France

Filthy rich, unemployed, no time? doesnt add up