Two Types Of Foreign Exiles

[Ijustwannateach]

In my travels in various countries, I've come across the notion that there are two main types of foreigner leading this semi-permanent exile life that many of us do.

1. THE SELF-EXILE: This type has voluntarily left a position in his home country, often but not necessarily a position of some advantage, to live abroad in a nation which is not his own- in which the language, the culture, and the physical environment are unusual to him and cause endless trouble as he adapts- but where he finds any or all of the following:

a. interesting new kinds of people and things

b. freedoms (and restrictions) unlike those in his own country

c. the psychic freedom to escape an identity entangled with the citizens of his home country

d. an absence of the noxious elements of the home country

2. THE EXILED: This type has run away or escaped from his home country, usually either to escape a bad situation or after repeated failures of various sorts, sometimes resulting from psychological or sociopathic problems. It's usually not perceived as being his own fault- "all these Brits have it in for me"- but acknowledged that the change of scene will lead to personal advantage. The good points for this type are:

a. Nobody knows exactly how screwed up they were back home

b. It's very hard for foreign nationals to tell how screwed up they are when speaking a second language

c. The opportunity to disguise sociopathy as "foreign difference"

d. There's always another country to run to when [country name] doesn't work out.

The ironic result of this is that most long-term expats avoid meeting unfamiliar faces, because they're afraid of meeting the opposite type. The Exiles don't want to run into the chronically sociopathic Exiled, who don't want to meet the Exiles in turn (whom they secretly know expose them for the screwed up types they are- even if the Exiles are too polite to say anything, the feeling of exposure seems bad enough for some of the Exiled).

Some of my best and most interesting friends have been among the former group. And some of the worst and most troubled, nightmarish souls I've encountered were among the latter.

EXAMPLES:

The Exiles:

1. My friend A., a talented teacher, painter, and martial arts student I met in Japan. He's one of the most socially attuned people I've ever known; he can read people in seconds and is almost always right. He's funny and articulate, and one of the most loyal and dependable people I know.

2. My friend R., a musician and composer of some note, who has spent most of the last decade or so running around in various parts of Asia. He's devastatingly witty and bright and British in that old style that's getting hard to find (so I hear) even in England- and a warm, wise fellow.

The Exiled:

1. I once met a fellow, D., in my apartment building in Japan. He was the first full-blown schizophrenic I think I've ever met (excepting the homeless in the big cities in the U.S.). When he knew other people were around, he seemed more or less normal- when no one was in sight the conversations with (others?) started. Sometimes he would be walking along shouting to no one in particular. We would hide around the corner in the lobby of the building and listen to him sitting talking one side of a conversation- scary stuff. The Japanese in the building became so frightened of him he was evicted (a very unusual event). The sad thing is that he was still seriously applying for jobs (he'd just arrived) and had a resume set up as a former journalist- I can imagine the chain of events. He becomes unstable at work in the U.S. and they're forced to fire him, but no one's close enough or rude enough to tell him the truth about his problems. At subsequent interviews, the interviewer can see he's unsuitable and probably ill- so he eventually decides it's the COUNTRY that's the problem, and heads off to Japan!

2. A whole crowd of the people I've met abroad are completely socially dysfunctional in various ways- abusive, withdrawn, unable to maintain friendships, keep jobs, manage their money, keep a relationship going- in a chronic fashion, month after month, their whole life seems more about damage control (and damaging others) rather than living. I've been forced to work and live with a few of them, and it's not pretty. How about another D., whom I worked with in a Japanese school for 2 years, and at the end of that time none of the Japanese nor I were speaking to him unless it was absolutely necessary? He didn't understand the words "cooperation" or "negotiation," and in meetings if he didn't get all his way he would throw a shockingly childish temper tantrum. I met his wife and she seemed to know there was a problem- I felt sorry for her. I don't think he had any friends after all his time there (though he didn't seem particularly eager to go back home either). Or what about Lars, a German intern who would fart and belch loudly in public (and comment on it) and blow his nose on the lobby dustcloths when he felt like it? Guess what his internship was for- DIPLOMATIC TRAINING! [he once commented- one of the few things I liked him for- that his country and Japan "went way back together."] Or the American ex-marine who shouted at his new Japanese boss on the phone for "not being able to speak ###### English?"

Sorry for being so long winded. Do you guys agree that the people who stay abroad for long periods of time tend to divvy up into these two groups, or is my generalisation too simple? Examples, comments?

"Steven"

[Harry Palmer]

yep.. so long winded that i fell asleep reading it... 'E' for effort...

[davethailand]

myself, a self exile

most people i know- exiled

[Ijustwannateach]

yep.. so long winded that i fell asleep reading it... 'E' for effort...

Hey, Harry, at least *I* write my OWN material!

[Up2U]

OK, which category fits the construction engineer, working from project-to-project, employer-to-employer - a hospital in Jeddah for four years, a petro-chem plant in Iran for three. A power station in UAE, river-training in HK, power station in Sumatra, Great Man-made River in Libya, Airport in BKK and so on.

Thirty years abroad - friends in all countries, of all colours and creeds, and a string of structures behind me as memorials to my passing through.

Don't think I'm alone in my career - many Brit's follow the same route.

It's tax-free (or tax-paid in some instances) and one gets more responsibility in these circumstances than would be the case staying and working for Taylor Woodrow / McAlpines at home.

But I always try to make it a new country for a new job. Don't always succeed - 12 years in Saudi and 12 years in Libya for instance. But usually 3 to 4 years, then move on.

[Ijustwannateach]

It's not what you do- it's why you do it and the manner in which you do it. If you like this lifestyle and it suits you better than living back home, and you're not just being run off from there, you'd be in the self-exiled group, right? On the other hand, if you have no choice and it's just a job and as soon as possible you'll return home, you're not really an exile- just someone doing a job. I'm talking about the voluntary long-termers.

"Steven"

[Sumitr Man]

interesting. And what about those who are exiled because there simply is nothing, or no one, in the place that they originally hail from? I would agree that there are not many, but your post indicates you have not met many White Rhodesians on your travels. Yet, go to almost any country in the world, look around, you'll find them.

Another example, those who are exiled because they are afforded a better long-term future than would be the case back home (without falling into #1 of your list). Nationals who fall into this cat., New Zealanders and South Africans, Irishmen and Scots (although not so much these days) (but to name a few).

My overall impression of your post is that you hang-out with too many Englishmen -like Harry Palmer...

[bkk barney]

In my travels in various countries, I've come across the notion that there are two main types of foreigner leading this semi-permanent exile life that many of us do.

1. THE SELF-EXILE: This type has voluntarily left a position in his home country, often but not necessarily a position of some advantage, to live abroad in a nation which is not his own- in which the language, the culture, and the physical environment are unusual to him and cause endless trouble as he adapts- but where he finds any or all of the following:

a. interesting new kinds of people and things

b. freedoms (and restrictions) unlike those in his own country

c. the psychic freedom to escape an identity entangled with the citizens of his home country

d. an absence of the noxious elements of the home country

2. THE EXILED: This type has run away or escaped from his home country, usually either to escape a bad situation or after repeated failures of various sorts, sometimes resulting from psychological or sociopathic problems. It's usually not perceived as being his own fault- "all these Brits have it in for me"- but acknowledged that the change of scene will lead to personal advantage. The good points for this type are:

a. Nobody knows exactly how screwed up they were back home

b. It's very hard for foreign nationals to tell how screwed up they are when speaking a second language

c. The opportunity to disguise sociopathy as "foreign difference"

d. There's always another country to run to when [country name] doesn't work out.

The ironic result of this is that most long-term expats avoid meeting unfamiliar faces, because they're afraid of meeting the opposite type. The Exiles don't want to run into the chronically sociopathic Exiled, who don't want to meet the Exiles in turn (whom they secretly know expose them for the screwed up types they are- even if the Exiles are too polite to say anything, the feeling of exposure seems bad enough for some of the Exiled).

Some of my best and most interesting friends have been among the former group. And some of the worst and most troubled, nightmarish souls I've encountered were among the latter.

EXAMPLES:

The Exiles:

1. My friend A., a talented teacher, painter, and martial arts student I met in Japan. He's one of the most socially attuned people I've ever known; he can read people in seconds and is almost always right. He's funny and articulate, and one of the most loyal and dependable people I know.

2. My friend R., a musician and composer of some note, who has spent most of the last decade or so running around in various parts of Asia. He's devastatingly witty and bright and British in that old style that's getting hard to find (so I hear) even in England- and a warm, wise fellow.

The Exiled:

1. I once met a fellow, D., in my apartment building in Japan. He was the first full-blown schizophrenic I think I've ever met (excepting the homeless in the big cities in the U.S.). When he knew other people were around, he seemed more or less normal- when no one was in sight the conversations with (others?) started. Sometimes he would be walking along shouting to no one in particular. We would hide around the corner in the lobby of the building and listen to him sitting talking one side of a conversation- scary stuff. The Japanese in the building became so frightened of him he was evicted (a very unusual event). The sad thing is that he was still seriously applying for jobs (he'd just arrived) and had a resume set up as a former journalist- I can imagine the chain of events. He becomes unstable at work in the U.S. and they're forced to fire him, but no one's close enough or rude enough to tell him the truth about his problems. At subsequent interviews, the interviewer can see he's unsuitable and probably ill- so he eventually decides it's the COUNTRY that's the problem, and heads off to Japan!

2. A whole crowd of the people I've met abroad are completely socially dysfunctional in various ways- abusive, withdrawn, unable to maintain friendships, keep jobs, manage their money, keep a relationship going- in a chronic fashion, month after month, their whole life seems more about damage control (and damaging others) rather than living. I've been forced to work and live with a few of them, and it's not pretty. How about another D., whom I worked with in a Japanese school for 2 years, and at the end of that time none of the Japanese nor I were speaking to him unless it was absolutely necessary? He didn't understand the words "cooperation" or "negotiation," and in meetings if he didn't get all his way he would throw a shockingly childish temper tantrum. I met his wife and she seemed to know there was a problem- I felt sorry for her. I don't think he had any friends after all his time there (though he didn't seem particularly eager to go back home either). Or what about Lars, a German intern who would fart and belch loudly in public (and comment on it) and blow his nose on the lobby dustcloths when he felt like it? Guess what his internship was for- DIPLOMATIC TRAINING! [he once commented- one of the few things I liked him for- that his country and Japan "went way back together."] Or the American ex-marine who shouted at his new Japanese boss on the phone for "not being able to speak ###### English?"

Sorry for being so long winded. Do you guys agree that the people who stay abroad for long periods of time tend to divvy up into these two groups, or is my generalisation too simple? Examples, comments?

"Steven"

have one of these ijwt, ginger aint got one, i shall read the rest of ur post over the next week or two

[NedKelly]

You forgot to mention another type......embassy staff......gees they are on their own !! A breed apart !!

[Harry Palmer]

My overall impression of your post is that you hang-out with too many Englishmen -like Harry Palmer...

sir, i stopped hangin out with englishmen ages ago... i new concentrate on saving katoeys... but competition has been 'stiff' lately what with bkk barmy buying his little red car... i am looking at buying a tandem, are there any good outlets in BK?

[Harry Palmer]

In my travels in various countries, I've come across the notion that there are two main types of foreigner leading this semi-permanent exile life that many of us do.

1.  THE SELF-EXILE:  This type has voluntarily left a position in his home country, often but not necessarily a position of some advantage, to live abroad in a nation which is not his own- in which the language, the culture, and the physical environment are unusual to him and cause endless trouble as he adapts- but where he finds any or all of the following:

a.  interesting new kinds of people and things

b.  freedoms (and restrictions) unlike those in his own country

c.  the psychic freedom to escape an identity entangled with the citizens of his home country

d.  an absence of the noxious elements of the home country

2.  THE EXILED:  This type has run away or escaped from his home country, usually either to escape a bad situation or after repeated failures of various sorts, sometimes resulting from psychological or sociopathic problems.  It's usually not perceived as being his own fault- "all these Brits have it in for me"- but acknowledged that the change of scene will lead to personal advantage.  The good points for this type are:

a.  Nobody knows exactly how screwed up they were back home

b.  It's very hard for foreign nationals to tell how screwed up they are when speaking a second language

c.  The opportunity to disguise sociopathy as "foreign difference"

d.  There's always another country to run to when [country name] doesn't work out.

The ironic result of this is that most long-term expats avoid meeting unfamiliar faces, because they're afraid of meeting the opposite type.  The Exiles don't want to run into the chronically sociopathic Exiled, who don't want to meet the Exiles in turn (whom they secretly know expose them for the screwed up types they are- even if the Exiles are too polite to say anything, the feeling of exposure seems bad enough for some of the Exiled).

Some of my best and most interesting friends have been among the former group.  And some of the worst and most troubled, nightmarish souls I've encountered were among the latter.

EXAMPLES:

The Exiles:

1.  My friend A., a talented teacher, painter, and martial arts student I met in Japan.  He's one of the most socially attuned people I've ever known; he can read people in seconds and is almost always right.  He's funny and articulate, and one of the most loyal and dependable people I know.

2.  My friend R., a musician and composer of some note, who has spent most of the last decade or so running around in various parts of Asia.  He's devastatingly witty and bright and British in that old style that's getting hard to find (so I hear) even in England- and a warm, wise fellow.

The Exiled:

1.  I once met a fellow, D., in my apartment building in Japan.  He was the first full-blown schizophrenic I think I've ever met (excepting the homeless in the big cities in the U.S.).  When he knew other people were around, he seemed more or less normal- when no one was in sight the conversations with (others?) started.  Sometimes he would be walking along shouting to no one in particular.  We would hide around the corner in the lobby of the building and listen to him sitting talking one side of a conversation- scary stuff.  The Japanese in the building became so frightened of him he was evicted (a very unusual event).  The sad thing is that he was still seriously applying for jobs (he'd just arrived) and had a resume set up as a former journalist-  I can imagine the chain of events.  He becomes unstable at work in the U.S. and they're forced to fire him, but no one's close enough or rude enough to tell him the truth about his problems.  At subsequent interviews, the interviewer can see he's unsuitable and probably ill- so he eventually decides it's the COUNTRY that's the problem, and heads off to Japan!

2.  A whole crowd of the people I've met abroad are completely socially dysfunctional in various ways- abusive, withdrawn, unable to maintain friendships, keep jobs, manage their money, keep a relationship going- in a chronic fashion, month after month, their whole life seems more about damage control (and damaging others) rather than living.  I've been forced to work and live with a few of them, and it's not pretty.  How about another D., whom I worked with in a Japanese school for 2 years, and at the end of that time none of the Japanese nor I were speaking to him unless it was absolutely necessary?  He didn't understand the words "cooperation" or "negotiation," and in meetings if he didn't get all his way he would throw a shockingly childish temper tantrum.  I met his wife and she seemed to know there was a problem- I felt sorry for her.  I don't think he had any friends after all his time there (though he didn't seem particularly eager to go back home either).  Or what about Lars, a German intern who would fart and belch loudly in public (and comment on it) and blow his nose on the lobby dustcloths when he felt like it?  Guess what his internship was for- DIPLOMATIC TRAINING!  [he once commented- one of the few things I liked him for- that his country and Japan "went way back together."]  Or the American ex-marine who shouted at his new Japanese boss on the phone for "not being able to speak ###### English?"

Sorry for being so long winded.  Do you guys agree that the people who stay abroad for long periods of time tend to divvy up into these two groups, or is my generalisation too simple?  Examples, comments?

"Steven"

have one of these ijwt, ginger aint got one, i shall read the rest of ur post over the next week or two

wrong again bkk barney.. check the link

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?ac...t=0#entry156396

i have submitted ijwt's post to the guiness book of world records... they are considering it under the category of most boring ever only teasing ijwt...

[bkk barney]

harry u are not allowed to give them to urself, an admin has to give u them u ginger haired obese freak.

[Harry Palmer]

harry u are not allowed to give them to urself, an admin has to give u them u ginger haired obese freak.

yes but who better to judge a decent post than moi, really!

where do you get the idea that i am a ginger fatty? justy because one enjoys ladies lingerie doesn't make one a freak...

[davethailand]

My overall impression of your post is that you hang-out with too many Englishmen -like Harry Palmer...

sir, i stopped hangin out with englishmen ages ago... i new concentrate on saving katoeys... but competition has been 'stiff' lately what with bkk barmy buying his little red car... i am looking at buying a tandem, are there any good outlets in BK?

[Ijustwannateach]

^Now, these two, Harry and BKBarney- just what type (from above) would you guess THEY are??

"Steven"

[phazey]

You forgot to mention another type......embassy staff......gees they are on their own !! A breed apart !!

I agree with this post.

[bkk barney]

^Now, these two, Harry and BKBarney- just what type (from above) would you guess THEY are??

"Steven"

well young harry aint allowed back to the uk, i would tell u all but i was sworn to secrecy, but if that farmer catches him again with his sheep im sure that the threat will be carried out,

me, im allowed back

[phazey]

nice dog....

[igotworms]

yep.. so long winded that i fell asleep reading it...    'E' for effort...

That's quite harsh considering all the spamming you've been up too lately Mr. Palmer.

This is a great post and I agree with your logic. Though, there a likely a few variations on your characterisations of exiles.

1) The indecisive exile: Those who don't want to go home, but are not necessarily happy with their current situation, and yet do nothing about it.

2) It's 1:35 am and my brain has ceased to work. I'll get back to this one.

Anyways, a very insightful and well written post Steven.

[Teach]

I'm not going to add to this post for fear of setting it alight. Instead i wil simply say...Where do you guys get those avatar's there great, and I want one. Also in the thread Farangs slagging off farangs I noticed some of u posted what looked like photo's.. how they do that.

If this thread hots up I might chuck mine in the mix. Oh and don't forget my own thread on Thai driving licence, I still need the latest info guys... come on don't f... about.

Teach