A_Traveller Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 (edited) Bonjour Regards PS Association of National Tourist Office Representatives Edited December 20, 2007 by A_Traveller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selftaopath Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Well it was US who arrested the briber as the law broken was US, hence no mention of who took the bribe as we all know it's not (very) illegal to receive bribes of 1.7M baht here...Sheesh... I just "don't get it." Isn't Bribery the norm in Thailand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steffi Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Yes it is the norm but on this occasion you've got US officials who actually take it seriously. I'm sure just about anybody in government with decision making power is corrupt. Just look at how wealthy some of these dynasties become over time. They didn't get that thru hard work and luck. Well it was US who arrested the briber as the law broken was US, hence no mention of who took the bribe as we all know it's not (very) illegal to receive bribes of 1.7M baht here...Sheesh... I just "don't get it." Isn't Bribery the norm in Thailand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KireB Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 What is the use of TAT anyway (France, I believe has 70 millions tourists per year, and I don't think they have a TAF !).... can't their budget go the the ministry of education (if there is such thing here) ... TAT should, in fact, be a sub-branch of the ministry of education, people involved in the tourism activities needs to be educated, it is a serious business, which needs serious people ... Anyway, just another (small) bribe from an idiot to another idiot .... by how much the military increased their budget this year (?) ... nobody seem to care that this country is going backward and that is a shame as most citizens (but less and less) don't deserve it ... Don't deserve it? A lot of Thais are selling their votes or are willing to! Most Thais don't worry about corruption; it's always been like this and doesn't hurt them! Short-term thinking and ignorance, because it does hurt them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steffi Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 (edited) Probably not illegal but whenever somebody has an incentive to award contracts to the highest bidder you've got to wonder why that's good for a country and their expenditure. Personally although it would be hypocritical I'd like to see the Thai authorities make an example out of this woman but as well all know she's just go silent and this will disappear especially given the upcoming election. This woman will walk away because she doesn't want them to look closer at all the other bribes she may have taken for other contracts awarded etc... Also she's more than likely going to know others who are also on the take and will threaten to name names so to speak so they'll probably go easy on her. Yes it is the norm but on this occasion you've got US officials who actually take it seriously.I'm sure just about anybody in government with decision making power is corrupt. Just look at how wealthy some of these dynasties become over time. They didn't get that thru hard work and luck. Well it was US who arrested the briber as the law broken was US, hence no mention of who took the bribe as we all know it's not (very) illegal to receive bribes of 1.7M baht here...Sheesh... I just "don't get it." Isn't Bribery the norm in Thailand? Edited December 20, 2007 by steffi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seneque Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 BonjourRegards PS Association of National Tourist Office Representatives Thailand is not a member of this .... You probably have to show clean hands to be a part of this association. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Probably not illegal but whenever somebody has an incentive to award contracts to the highest bidder you've got to wonder why that's good for a country and their expenditure. Personally although it would be hypocritical I'd like to see the Thai authorities make an example out of this woman but as well all know she's just go silent and this will disappear especially given the upcoming election. This woman will walk away because she doesn't want them to look closer at all the other bribes she may have taken for other contracts awarded etc... Also she's more than likely going to know others who are also on the take and will threaten to name names so to speak so they'll probably go easy on her. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- She will be cleared of any wrongdoing because all of them ARE corrupted ... it is the best/easiest/shameless way to make a living when you have 1) NO EDUCATION (and i do not mean by this to have a university degree (you buy them in LOS) which is a small part of being educated, the main issue is ''how about being a good person''!) and when you are 2) in POWERFUL positions (being put there because your corrupted friends know you are greedy and they promote you). Can we start doing something about this degrading way of life ....!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seneque Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 What is the use of TAT anyway (France, I believe has 70 millions tourists per year, and I don't think they have a TAF !).... can't their budget go the the ministry of education (if there is such thing here) ... TAT should, in fact, be a sub-branch of the ministry of education, people involved in the tourism activities needs to be educated, it is a serious business, which needs serious people ... Anyway, just another (small) bribe from an idiot to another idiot .... by how much the military increased their budget this year (?) ... nobody seem to care that this country is going backward and that is a shame as most citizens (but less and less) don't deserve it ... Don't deserve it? A lot of Thais are selling their votes or are willing to! Most Thais don't worry about corruption; it's always been like this and doesn't hurt them! Short-term thinking and ignorance, because it does hurt them! Thais worry about corruption, they know it hurt them but they also know that to talk about it is extremely dangerous .... many people disappear everyday in this country, people who try to expose the problem ... this is why the larger population seem like they don't care, but believe me they do ... I am sorry for you if you never met good that people as they are plenty (perhaps not in your world) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapout Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 If I were Thai I think I would be having some real 2nd and 3rd thoughts about who should be running this country. They could start by looking at a list of past government officials who were not mentioned or associated with programs where corruption charges have been made. The numbers I have seen mentioned over the past few months indicate that the old 10% backhander has progressed to a figure in the 25 to 30% range. If this is indeed through out the system, (silly conclusion) although I do not remember a single minstry which has not been accused of this type of thing, how can the common people look at themselves in the mirror much less the people living in the shanty towns. I would suspect the aforementioned list would be too short to even fill a city bus. Most people in the world would not tolerate some one stealing 1 years worth of income every 4 years from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linglop Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trader1 Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 (edited) Thais worry about corruption, they know it hurt them but they also know that to talk about it is extremely dangerous .... many people disappear everyday in this country, people who try to expose the problem ... this is why the larger population seem like they don't care, but believe me they do ... I am sorry for you if you never met good that people as they are plenty (perhaps not in your world) Do you have the figures for how many people who try to expose corruption go missing every day? Is it 5 or 10 or 20 or 100? Edited December 20, 2007 by trader1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journalist Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 (edited) I know Jutamas, and when we meet at functions we'll have a chat and she'll tell me about her new house in Ekkamai, and i'll admire her new jewellery. We get on well, and I like her, but having said that, she is as guilty as hel_l here, so she better watch who she sues, because the feds will probably have evidence. All of us involved with BIFF knew how Gerald got the deal, and it was an open secret that to get a TAT grant for any project , you had to kickback 30% of the contract fee. Edited December 20, 2007 by Journalist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 The case exemplifies well why the Sarayudh government did virtually nothing about the corruption of the Thaksin government. TAT was known to be extremely corrupt and heading it was a prize job because of the access for budgets for promotion that don't need to produce any tangible end product, the ability to deal with foreign suppliers and endless opportunities for unnecessary first class travel with loads of hangers on. Journalist, the poster who knows Juthamas, said the deal was common knowledge. The Sarayudh government fired Juthamas but passed up the low hanging fruit of nailing her for corruption. It is in virtually every govt department that has any kind of budget and the "old ginger" bureaucrats of the Sarayudh administration no doubt have a lot of skeletons in their own cupboards after long careers in government earning a pittance but sending all their kids overseas for education and generally living like millionaires. As others have said it is a way of life here and the dumb majority who sell their votes are destined to receive shoddy government services for another generation or three until the problem can be routed out. It comes as no surprise that all foreigners who teach ethics courses in law or finance here are stunned by the inability of middle class Thai students to comprehend the subject. They see corrupt people getting on all around them and no doubt hear parents and relatives telling stories of corruption in an admiring way from a young age. I look forward to seeing Juthamas suing the US Department of Justice. They seem to have heaps of evidence of payments. Note that her daughter was earning about Baht 7,000 a month as a "fiscal analyst" for the Finance Ministry when she applied for a US visa. I am sure nothing much will happen to them but I certainly hope they lose some sleep over it and suffer some loss of face for getting found out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyclub Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Anyone with eyes can see absolutely nothing will happen to the alleged, the rich. It's also been touched on throughout, Education Education Education, Thailand and corruption, international reputaion, money better spent elsewhere etc Stupid people are easy to control The Hi So's/ruling elite/colonel Somchai's/government official's etc have no intention now or ever of educating the populace for the very reason previously stated. This slightly interesting story of TAT buisness dealings is just the proverbial tip of a far reaching story of an endemically corrupt to the core country. Someone said "the people of this country don't deserve this" fair enough, but "they" are stupid beyond belief, and until "they" recieve any decent level of education and morals to end it all, The big shots will continue to get away with it. Of course and as always, IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexLah Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Ok, for those of you that are investigating. Stop it! Are you willing to sacrifice yourself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrylee Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 Ok, for those of you that are investigating.Stop it! Are you willing to sacrifice yourself? like dirty harry said: "make my day" ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_Pat_Pong Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 This does not come as a surprise to some. The going joke around Bangkok circles for the past year has been that Dr. Suwit Yodmanee (current TAT Minister) is much more difficult to do business with because he is too honest (i.e. won't take bribes). That is absolutely true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_Pat_Pong Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jai Dee Posted December 21, 2007 Author Share Posted December 21, 2007 Probe into Bangkok Film Festival scandal needs one month It has been revealed by Tourism Authority of Thailand governor PHORNSIRI MANOHARN (พรศิริ มโนหาร) that a team of fact-finders will require one month to complete a probe into the Bangkok Film Festival bribery case. An official statement will not be issued by the TAT at this time, as the governor believes such an action will only aggravate the situation, though she did not choose to elaborate on the matter. Police investigators traveled to the TAT’s headquarters to meet with Governor PHORNSIRI, but she was not in her office. Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 21 December 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stateman Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 Read the US Dept. of Justice affidavit by the FBI agent pursuing this case. Details , leading to the arrest in this case. Tourism Authority of Thailand corruption. http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/pr/press_rel...n-affidavit.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlightRisk Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 Anyone who ever dealt with TAT under Juthamas' rein knew that you didn't get anywhere with them without lining their pockets. Ironic, considering they were supposed to be PAYING people to advertise about Thailand, not the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 See today's Nation that points out links between Juthamas and former TRT hotshots who are now with various political parties. Maybe other bribery cases to do with TAT will surface as a way to embarrass these people and then be swept under the carpet with this one. The most interesting link is that the Governor's daughter, the co-conspirator who received most of the bribes, is engaged to Korn Dhabaransi's son (Korn from the notoriously corrupt Choonhaven clan is now back with the Chart Thai Party). After all the noise has died down the connections will ensure that the files on the case get lost like the files on the bombers who tried to blow up Thaksin and the report from the US Justice Dept showing Suriya's links to the CTX bribes. There are too many people involved and many will be influential with the next government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuian Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 (edited) It's the name of the Game - nobody will ever stop this! "leave always some on the plate..." is the base for lining pockets! Still people receive gifts from the ..., like titles, land deeds, special priviliges, so why not insist on "gifts", if one thinks that is simply a reward of recognition of the position of these people. Even builders, in good believe that they "help" someone to build a house, they have to be rewarded, even if the job is very shoddy! It's throughout the fabric of society, monks, temples and tam boon provide the alibi and therewith help to save face! As someone else wrote before: "it's endemic", an aggressive melanoma! Edited December 21, 2007 by Samuian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSnake Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 WOW!! I wonder how many people could tunr from big easy money like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sajal Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 A new angle on the story. : Is the U.S. trying to manage Thailand’s elections? http://facthai.wordpress.com/2007/12/21/ju...%99s-elections/ Readers familiar with the workings of the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency might attribute this timing to dozens of prior U.S. attempts to destabilise countries and their economies and interfere with legitimate elections. Is the U.S. trying to manage Thailand’s elections to the benefit of its military? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Clifton Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 A new angle on the story. : Is the U.S. trying to manage Thailand’s elections?http://facthai.wordpress.com/2007/12/21/ju...%99s-elections/ Readers familiar with the workings of the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency might attribute this timing to dozens of prior U.S. attempts to destabilise countries and their economies and interfere with legitimate elections. Is the U.S. trying to manage Thailand’s elections to the benefit of its military? Possible. Google these words. "Economic hit men" An old U.S. way of fixing things up their way until today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevykanteve Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 A new angle on the story. : Is the U.S. trying to manage Thailand’s elections?http://facthai.wordpress.com/2007/12/21/ju...%99s-elections/ Readers familiar with the workings of the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency might attribute this timing to dozens of prior U.S. attempts to destabilise countries and their economies and interfere with legitimate elections. Is the U.S. trying to manage Thailand’s elections to the benefit of its military? Possible. Google these words. "Economic hit men" An old U.S. way of fixing things up their way until today. I just finished reading the above-referenced materials regarding CIA, etc. Tony, let's be cool. This anti-American stuff went out with the cold war... I thought. What's your point? "An old U.S. way of fixing things up their way until today" means what exactly? Do you equate anti-coup with pro-America? What in fact are you saying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johpa Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 A new angle on the story. : Is the U.S. trying to manage Thailand’s elections?http://facthai.wordpress.com/2007/12/21/ju...%99s-elections/ Readers familiar with the workings of the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency might attribute this timing to dozens of prior U.S. attempts to destabilise countries and their economies and interfere with legitimate elections. Is the U.S. trying to manage Thailand’s elections to the benefit of its military? Possible. Google these words. "Economic hit men" An old U.S. way of fixing things up their way until today. Better yet, read the book and the follow up book by John Perkins. Bottom line is that as along as the Thai elite returns most of their profits (legal, gray market, and illegal activities) into western banks while allowing a small amount to be kept in Thailand as houses and jewelry, nobody is going to complain too loud. As to why this relatively trivial matter has become a legal issue is indeed an interesting subject for speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 A new angle on the story. : Is the U.S. trying to manage Thailand’s elections?http://facthai.wordpress.com/2007/12/21/ju...%99s-elections/ Readers familiar with the workings of the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency might attribute this timing to dozens of prior U.S. attempts to destabilise countries and their economies and interfere with legitimate elections. Is the U.S. trying to manage Thailand’s elections to the benefit of its military? Possible. Google these words. "Economic hit men" An old U.S. way of fixing things up their way until today. Better yet, read the book and the follow up book by John Perkins. Bottom line is that as along as the Thai elite returns most of their profits (legal, gray market, and illegal activities) into western banks while allowing a small amount to be kept in Thailand as houses and jewelry, nobody is going to complain too loud. As to why this relatively trivial matter has become a legal issue is indeed an interesting subject for speculation. If anything the State Department may have advised them to press ahead with the arrest of the Greens to minimize the possibility of having to deal with Juthamas as tourism minister or having to deny a minister a visa (although this has been done before with drug dealing politicians). I don't really see that it will have much affect on the outcome of the election, since Thais love to vote for corrupt politicians, or that the US intended to influence the elections. Anyway who cares? Any time is a good time to blow the whistle on these corrupt dirtbags. I appreciate CJ Hink's bravery in taking on the Thai government over net censorship as a foreigner but his article on this topic is self contradictory rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted December 22, 2007 Share Posted December 22, 2007 (edited) AMLO panel to probe money trail in TAT governor bribery case The Anti-Money Laundering Office (AMLO) is set to form a working panel to probe the money trail of former top officials of the Tourism Authority of Thailand (TAT) in connection with an American couple arrested in the US on charges of bribery. At the same time, the Supreme Court has withdrawn the candidacy of Juthamas Siriwan, a former TAT Governor, from running in the election under the proportional party list. This follows Juthamas's resignation from her membership of the Puea Paendin Party in the wake of the financial scandal involving the Bangkok International Film Festival. This bribery case has shattered the reputation of Thailand and TAT. The FBI has provided the US Court with pressing evidence of the transactions allegedly paid out by Patricia Green to the bank accounts of the TAT official's daughter. The source said AMLO would probe the money trail belonging to the defendants before forwarding the results to the National Counter Corruption Commission, which will be directly responsible for this case. "It won't be too difficult to probe this case because the US has already established clear and complete evidence of transactions through the banks. We only have to expand on this," said the source. Police Chief Seripisut Temiyavej said he had ordered General Wisanu Prasartthongosoth, who is responsible for the foreign affairs department, to work with the FBI. This is in response to Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont's request to the National Police Office that the police work with the FBI to unravel the case. The National Counter Corruption Commission and the Department of Special Investigation had earlier agreed to probe the bribery case involving the film festival. Juthamas resigned as a member of Puea Paendin Party on December 20, after which the party passed on the filing to the Election Commission. The commission followed up by appealing to the election unit of the Supreme Court to revoke the candidacy of Juthamas. - The Nation Edited December 22, 2007 by sriracha john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted December 22, 2007 Share Posted December 22, 2007 Festival of shame On Wednesday, a scandal broke from LA when an American couple, Gerald Green and wife Patricia, were busted by the US Justice Dept. for allegedly bribing a senior Thai official at the TAT. The kickbacks were paid, according to the FBI, to secure the deal for Green's company, Film Festival Management, to organise the annual comedy known as the Bangkok International Film Festival (BKKIFF). That FBI report is a fastidious and thrilling page-turner perfect for a movie plot itself. It didn't directly name the TAT official who pocketed the $1.7 million, referring to her (or him) simply as "the Governor", which deliciously gives the document a tantalising air of a PD James detective novel. After a flurry of "Gee, that's disgusting, so who is it?", on Thursday Juthamas Siriwan, former Governor of TAT during the 2003-2006 period that Green's company was awarded the contract, resigned from Puea Pandin Party and pulled out of tomorrow's election. Just when you thought nothing could further disgrace the farcical BKKIFF, this worst piece of embarrassment turned up like a climax of a cheap horror film. You'd want to vomit. As much as I felt the mouth-licking thrill while reading the FBI affidavit - which includes details of shady deals, a dubious phrasing that refers to "a relationship" between Green and "the Governor", as well as the spywork of FBI special agents who trailed the accused to a meeting with "The Governor" at the Oriental Hotel - I felt depressed for the shame brought on this country and Bangkok's main movie festival. - Kong Rithdee / Bangkok Post Kong Rithdee writes about movies and popular culture in the Bangkok Post real.time section. Opinion Continued here: http://www.bangkokpost.net/News/22Dec2007_news20.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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